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Can Raymond Re Define Himself?


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#121 Canvoucer Vanuck

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 08:07 PM

I believe he can be a good bottom 6'er for us. Give him a chance to recover his strength after getting his back broken. If he's signed at 2.2 or 2.3M that is very good value for a guy like him.
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#122 surtur

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 09:43 PM

Is it just me or does it seem like mayray is always falling down... he is very skilled and has soft hands but as the LA Kings proved you need to have that grit and strength to be sucessful when it counts. I just don't think Raymond has that grit and strength in him so when he is not producing he is practically useless. I think that MG will keep him though because he is really good friends with Garrison.

yeah it is just you........
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#123 Bodee

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 02:44 AM

Anyone notice how in every video in this thread, Raymond never looks happy when he scores? He looks like he's always moping. And the other players come over and they pretty much just congratulate him as a formality. No one seems particularly excited if he scores a goal and why should they if he isn't excited? Doesn't really look like he's a part of the team.

I remember when Booth had a scoring slump last year, then when he scored he was so relieved and the other players were so happy for him. Or when Ebbett came back from his injury and scored, he got absolutely mobbed. And everyone was hoping Manny would be alright and back on the team. Raymond? The guy had a spine injury and you'd expect someone would be happy to see him come back. But he just seems to bring them down. Not sure if its an attitude problem or his confidence has been crushed along with a vertebra but something is up.



I would say "bollocks" but I have used up my quota. Mason Raymond is a shy country boy, it seems to me. I get the impression there is more to life than hockey for him. That said he is a tenacious competitor and a fine player.

Here's a smile just for you. This is Raymond at his best and ironically at his best there are damn few like him. He has battered down the ice to help out in front of goal, when his team get the puck he has turned on a dime and accelerated back the other way to take the pass............transition KING.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTyguM5_Y78

Edited by Bodee, 08 July 2012 - 02:49 AM.

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#124 nucklehead2

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 10:44 PM

1 point more than most, could have been more with some focused linemates, he also drew a handful of penalties by out-skating LA rather than flopping.

He got the puck to the net, which is how LA won game 5, the difference was a team interested in playoff hockey vs a few players. Imagine if our defence and Kesler put forth half that effort, we woulda owned the Kings.

someone wants to jerk raymond off under the table
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#125 Wolverinė

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 10:47 PM

By "redefine" do you mean "somehow learn how not to be scared of going to the dirty areas"?
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#126 Hotdawg

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 11:46 PM

Oh man, would I love to see any of you avitars walk your mommy's dog after a broken back, let alone play in the NHL!
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#127 Line Juggler

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 08:27 AM

Not sure if anyone has posted this in here from hockeybuzz yet...
but I think it is quite an accurate assessment about the league rules in relationship to Mason Raymond's performance.
Worth the read.



The Mason Raymond Mystery



July 10, 2012, 9:53 AM ET [20 Comments]
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News broke yesterday that Mason Raymond was re-signed for 2.275 million. Ordinarily, a signing like this would fall by the wayside, with not much being mentioned about it. But yesterday was July 9th, and there was absolutely nothing going on in the world of hockey. Mason Raymond was even trending on Twitter, with teenage girls in Vancouver swooning that Raymond would be back for another year, while everyone else whined and complained about the signing.

I sit on the fence with this signing and here is why. I like Mason Raymond a lot. He has the speed and skill to be a top 6 forward in the NHL. He plays well in his own end and has scored 25 goals in the past. I love his resiliency to come back from one of the most gruesome injury the game has ever seen. And he's in his prime.

Gillis also has little patience for players that don't work on their game in an effort to be the best player they can be. Trying to get better all the time is part of the culture Gillis has instilled in Vancouver, so one has to believe that Raymond will come to camp stronger and better than ever. The sky should be the limit for Raymond this year right?

Well not exactly…

Mason Raymond is also a player whose future production will be tied to how the game is officiated. If the NHL decides they want wide open, skilled hockey, than Raymond is a bargain at 2.275 million. If they decide they want to let the clutch, grab, hack, pick, and whack style back, than Raymond becomes pretty well useless.

The numbers don't lie...

In 2009/10 and 2010/11 Raymond scored 92 points in 152 games. That is a 50 point average if spread over an 82 game schedule.

At the start of this season, when the game was more wide open, Raymond had 8 points in his first 14 games back. That is a 47 point pace if spread out over an 82 game season.

Then in January, the NHL decided to start bringing clutch, grab, hack, pick, and whack hockey back in order to slow things down. Over the final 41 games, Raymond, would get 12 points. That is a 24 point pace is spread over 82 games.

Then you look at Raymond's almost non-existent playoff resume, (16 points in 51 games, a 31 point production or 82 games) and you can see that when the referees put the whistles away, Mason Raymond goes away.

In a lot of ways I consider Raymond the Anti-Penner. Slow the game down with clutching and grabbing, and Penner looks like a rock star. Open the game up with speed, skill, and eliminate obstruction, Penner looks more like an overweight beagle, struggling to catch his own tail.

Now we all know that the league isn't changing for the playoffs. The league has made is very clear over the years that the NHL playoffs are no place for the game of hockey. But if they open things up during the regular season, Mason Raymond may just have a spot in Vancouver's top 6 and that could lead to a decent return via trade.

While the mystery is still out there as to which Raymond we will get over the next 12 months, one thing is solved, and that's there are a few NHL officials who obviously do not love Raymond.
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#128 Drybone

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 08:27 AM

I go back and forth of whether MG got the deal done so he can be part of a trade package sooner rather than later. If he does stay, it is really a make or break year for him.
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#129 wattevr

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 09:04 AM

I believe he can be a good bottom 6'er for us. Give him a chance to recover his strength after getting his back broken. If he's signed at 2.2 or 2.3M that is very good value for a guy like him.


Hindsight being 20/20, this. I like him having another opportunity at having an actual off season to train. I think his strength will be back, he'll have more ooomph. And at 2.275 that's good value for 18-23 goals with his pk ability and his speed
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#130 TimberWolf

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 09:16 AM

Oh man, would I love to see any of you avitars walk your mommy's dog after a broken back, let alone play in the NHL!


Sentimentality is the domain of losers. You put the best players on the ice or you do not win.

I never broke my back, but I have permanent lower back damage and disruption to my quality of life and still go in day in and out in my job and not get over 2 mill a year to do it.

Save the sympathy for people that are truly downtrodden, not for poor rich MayRay.
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I was saying Lu-Urns...

“That guys an idiot. It’s his own fault if he can’t tell the difference between an all star center and a plug defenceman”

"It's not the location. We just can't beat the Canucks. Thank god they're in the West."


#131 babych

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 09:39 AM

I go back and forth of whether MG got the deal done so he can be part of a trade package sooner rather than later. If he does stay, it is really a make or break year for him.

Yup. I, for one, am really hoping it's a "make" year as I have always liked Raymond. Unfortunately, his game has been terrible over the past 2 seasons (he wasn't very effective even before the injury).

I would love to see him regain his 25 goal form of 2 seasons ago but, if he can't, I agree it's time to move on.
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QUOTE
(shiznak@Jun 17 2008, 08:00 PM)
Kesler was lucky to score 20 this year since the injury to Morrison allowed him to do so.

I doubt Kesler would ever break 15 goals in his career again.

#132 pwnstar

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 10:19 AM

(sigh)

We all know how skilled he is and how potent he can be.


#RaymondDown
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#133 Hotdawg

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 10:26 AM

Sentimentality is the domain of losers. You put the best players on the ice or you do not win.

I never broke my back, but I have permanent lower back damage and disruption to my quality of life and still go in day in and out in my job and not get over 2 mill a year to do it.

Save the sympathy for people that are truly downtrodden, not for poor rich MayRay.


You sound like you are jealous of Mason Raymond.
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#134 Ryanstorm

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 10:42 AM

You guys are totally tweaking, and need to get over yourselves, it's like you don't even watch other teams and players that have missed the hit on a deek. How about Edlers drop pass fail? Don't even judge his play based on last season he came back from a serious injury in barely no time. He will have more time to prove himself.
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#135 thad

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 11:09 AM

My honest opinion is he will and he'll have a decent NHL career but not with us.

To fit into a contending teams top six his skill just isn't good enough to warrant keeping around. We would be better off having a bigger more physical guy that can put up similar numbers in a bad season point wise. Someone who when they're not putting up points they're still effective.

I think he'd make a great second liner on a team like the islanders or a team hurting in the pk department


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#136 xCANUCKAHOLICx

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 11:57 AM

I DONT BELIEVE HE WILL DO ANY BETTER AT ALL THIS DUDES A BUM
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#137 Kola Nuts

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 12:27 PM

I DONT BELIEVE HE WILL DO ANY BETTER AT ALL THIS DUDES A BUM


Here's hoping he proves you wrong

HONK HONK!!
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#138 TimberWolf

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 12:38 PM

You sound like you are jealous of Mason Raymond.


You sound like someone that only hears what he wants to hear, makes a response based off that and then high-fives himself.
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I was saying Lu-Urns...

“That guys an idiot. It’s his own fault if he can’t tell the difference between an all star center and a plug defenceman”

"It's not the location. We just can't beat the Canucks. Thank god they're in the West."


#139 DollarAndADream

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 12:38 PM

If he stops falling over so much and starts burying his chances, I'd consider him redefined.

I don't egg on the guy as much as everybody else, but that's the reality.

The guy has so many bright spots, and we've seen so many flashes of brilliance.
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#140 CanuckFan1981

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 01:00 PM

He was coming off a broken back last year.. there is a chance with a full offseason of training and reflection on his play that he will turn it around this year.  He has some huge physical and mental hurdles to overcome though.... I'm still glad he's being given the chance.


I predict career highs in points and goals for Mayray. He had an off year largely due to HAVING A BROKEN BACK. He didn't have enough time to get ready for the season and did no training in the summer last year. Give the guy a break. He BROKE HIS BACK trying to score and help the CANUCKS win. This season is his measurement stick to see where he is at. We can't judge him based only on last season coming off that kind of an injury with no off season training. He certainly has weaknesses but his speed and puck possesion skills can help any team. We shall see.
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#141 TowelPower12

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 01:05 PM

Raymond was coming off a horrific injury last year, if he is fully recovered this year and stays healthy he is more than capable of getting back to 20-25 goals imo
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#142 cIutch

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 01:09 PM

i hope he finds his game

if not hes probably going to get traded before the deadline
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#143 CanuckFan1981

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 01:12 PM

Sentimentality is the domain of losers. You put the best players on the ice or you do not win.

I never broke my back, but I have permanent lower back damage and disruption to my quality of life and still go in day in and out in my job and not get over 2 mill a year to do it.

Save the sympathy for people that are truly downtrodden, not for poor rich MayRay.


Sympathy?? Nobody is putting him on the team out of sympathy. He is a proven 20 goal scorer that is yet to reach his potential and had a career threatening injury stunt his development. Somebody compared him to Andy MacDonald and I think that is a very fair comparison. Undersized but defensively responsible, super fast but hands that haven't caught up the legs, at least not yet. Sometimes he controls the puck for his entire shift and creates 3-4 good chances. He has a 25 goal season and hasn't even reached his peek. Sympathy signing?? Hardly. Only thing worse than a simpathy signing is giving up on a player because of an injury plagued year and then watching said player go and light it up on another team after a full off season to recover.
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#144 xCANUCKAHOLICx

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 01:13 PM

Here's hoping he proves you wrong

HONK HONK!!



well there is HOPE i suppose
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#145 TimberWolf

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 01:16 PM

Raymond was coming off a horrific injury last year, if he is fully recovered this year and stays healthy he is more than capable of getting back to 20-25 goals imo


He was slumping for over a year before the injury. The 25 goal season was an anomaly, not his standard. Much like Rome's scoring streak
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I was saying Lu-Urns...

“That guys an idiot. It’s his own fault if he can’t tell the difference between an all star center and a plug defenceman”

"It's not the location. We just can't beat the Canucks. Thank god they're in the West."


#146 TimberWolf

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 01:20 PM

Sympathy?? Nobody is putting him on the team out of sympathy. He is a proven 20 goal scorer that is yet to reach his potential and had a career threatening injury stunt his development. Somebody compared him to Andy MacDonald and I think that is a very fair comparison. Undersized but defensively responsible, super fast but hands that haven't caught up the legs, at least not yet. Sometimes he controls the puck for his entire shift and creates 3-4 good chances. He has a 25 goal season and hasn't even reached his peek. Sympathy signing?? Hardly. Only thing worse than a simpathy signing is giving up on a player because of an injury plagued year and then watching said player go and light it up on another team after a full off season to recover.


I didn't say it was a sympathy signing, I am saying that those that have sympathy and think we should sign based off that are out to lunch.

To answer the rest, I fear Raymond coming back to haunt us about as much as Wellwood. If he proves me wrong, power to him, but his whole time here, all I have seen is where a scoring chance goes to die.
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I was saying Lu-Urns...

“That guys an idiot. It’s his own fault if he can’t tell the difference between an all star center and a plug defenceman”

"It's not the location. We just can't beat the Canucks. Thank god they're in the West."


#147 TimberWolf

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 01:23 PM

Man, the people on CDC are such tools. Have any of you losers been on a sports team? Work ethic is everything. And production isn't all that counts. People need to rely on each other and work harder for the sake of the team and the coach. If your players won't work hard for you, the team will rot from the inside.

You get them to work for you by rewarding them for sacrificing for the team. That means practicing hard, bringing all they have to games and powering through production slumps. That's why AV puts guys on the ice on any given game not solely for their production but depending on how hard they work (both on game day and in practice). Behind the scenes, Mayray outworked a hell of a lot of other players to get back in the game after the SCF. Manny did the same. If AV didn't play them, this team would have barely showed up for games, let alone gotten another presidents trophy. I can only assume the reason you all forget this and talk relentlessly out of your asses is because you think that your experiences as "fans" (aka TV-watching, beer-to-piss factories) is in any way an analog to the experience of being in an NHL game. What a joke.


Except yourself, of course. The one who's opinion is Gospel. Well, I guess this debate is over then, back to our pathetic lives.
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I was saying Lu-Urns...

“That guys an idiot. It’s his own fault if he can’t tell the difference between an all star center and a plug defenceman”

"It's not the location. We just can't beat the Canucks. Thank god they're in the West."


#148 CanuckFan1981

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 01:23 PM

I DONT BELIEVE HE WILL DO ANY BETTER AT ALL THIS DUDES A BUM


I BELIEVE HE WILL BE BACK TO HIS NORMAL SELF AGAIN IN THE 50-60 POINT RANGE. HE IS NOT A BUM.(I have CAPS LOCK too!! That's weird yaa)"Canucks" fans should hope that I am right and not you. Some "fans" prefer to pick the player they will hate for the season. Real fans cheer for ALL players on their team whether it is their preferred free agent signing or the one they didn't want to get. I never liked Hordichuk, but when he joined the Nuck's i always cheered for him. (hint hint hint)
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#149 SamJamIam

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 01:33 PM

Sentimentality is the domain of losers. You put the best players on the ice or you do not win.

I never broke my back, but I have permanent lower back damage and disruption to my quality of life and still go in day in and out in my job and not get over 2 mill a year to do it.

Save the sympathy for people that are truly downtrodden, not for poor rich MayRay.


Perhaps you would have better quality of life if you spent less time insinuating an athlete who snapped a vertebra is undeserving of sympathy and spent more time being less of an abhorrent dick hiding behind his own injury. Plenty of people have it harder than you, but plenty of them don't sulk about it like you.

Edited by nateb123, 10 July 2012 - 02:43 PM.

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#150 SamJamIam

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 01:38 PM

Except yourself, of course. The one who's opinion is Gospel. Well, I guess this debate is over then, back to our pathetic lives.


The discussion isn't over. It's just that the thread is titled "Can Raymond redefine himself?" not "Should Raymond be paid more because of his injury?". Something you seem to have missed out when you started complaining about your own job.
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