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The Gay Debate: The Bible and Homosexuality


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#1 Heretic

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 03:06 PM

"Matthew Vines speaks on the theological debate regarding the Bible and the role of gay Christians in the church. Delivered at College Hill United Methodist Church in Wichita, Kansas on March 8, 2012."

What an amazing young man.
This is over an hour and everyone should watch this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezQjNJUSraY

Christ is the basis of the new covenant.

Leviticus prohibits many things - none of which apply to Christians...
We are not subject to the "old law".

Christians need to throw out the "traditional interpretations" of the Bible.

Edit: Please watch the video before replying...

Edit 2: Here's his blog: http://matthewvines.tumblr.com/

The summary is this - the "traditional" interpretations of the Bible should not be applied.
That is, God's will is for everyone to be with someone - and if you believe in God, then you wouldn't want to go against God's will would you?
Christians should passionately and tenaciously embrace Gay Christians.
We should do the same to everyone.
Mathew Vines, a gay Christian, made me cry today...and that was a good thing.
Mathew Vines bears good fruit.

Edited by Heretic, 07 July 2012 - 03:58 PM.

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McCoy: We were speculating. Is God really out there?
Kirk: Maybe he's not out there, Bones. Maybe he's right here. [points to his heart]

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#2 Nas19

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 03:09 PM

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This thread has the potential to get out of control.
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#3 Heretic

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 03:12 PM

This thread has the potential to get out of control.


I hope not - it's very important.
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McCoy: We were speculating. Is God really out there?
Kirk: Maybe he's not out there, Bones. Maybe he's right here. [points to his heart]

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#4 Squeak

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 03:15 PM

This is not going to go well.
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#5 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 03:26 PM

REALLY? An hour long and you don't care to summarize. Even I have better sh*t to do.

For those of you which try to reconcile religion with science, sexuality, abortions or even politics you have been greatly misled. Religion is fine to practice on your own, read the bible or attend Church on Sundays but don't think it's revolutionary to see Gays as regular people.

The bible is an outdated and misinterpreted form of fiction. Fast forward 2,000 years from now to when Harry Potter is the next Christ.
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#6 Everybody Hates Raymond

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 03:26 PM

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#7 Machine Gun Kelly

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 03:36 PM

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I honestly don't care if I get flamed for this,
I have a gay brother, and I am his number 1 supporter, along with my entire family and close friends, people who use the bible or religion to bring hate on someone for an uncontrollable thing, those are the people who should be ridiculed and hated upon.
Anybody who uses their "god" as an excuse to discriminate against other people, are the people who deserved to be hated.
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#8 Everybody Hates Raymond

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 03:54 PM

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I honestly don't care if I get flamed for this,
I have a gay brother, and I am his number 1 supporter, along with my entire family and close friends, people who use the bible or religion to bring hate on someone for an uncontrollable thing, those are the people who should be ridiculed and hated upon.
Anybody who uses their "god" as an excuse to discriminate against other people, are the people who deserved to be hated.

"God loves a kind Athiest more than a hateful Christian"
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#9 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 04:48 PM

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There should not even be a debate about this , and what has a diety that may or may not exist got to do with this .
so long as your actions are not detrimental / cuase harm to others and you live within the laws of the country you are living in , no one has the right to step in and interfere with your thoughts and/or actions .
and you are right heretic not all christians are narrow minded bigots

1. This picture of Chicago Christians who showed up at a gay pride parade to apologize for homophobia in the Church.

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View this image ›
(Michelle Gantner / Maladjusted Media)



... and the reaction from the parade.

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View this image ›
(Michelle Gantner / Maladjusted Media)

but it seems like a large percentage of them are especially the leaders of the catholic church who influence so many christians .
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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

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tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#10 Satan's Evil Twin

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 04:48 PM

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I find it rather sad that it took a gay man two years to justify why he should be able to express his sexuality because he has to do it within the parameters of the bible. It's easy to present the bible version you want when it's just you up there, and I'm afraid someone with an opposing view and some bible knowledge would have a field day with this kid. I find that the only effective arguments he presents can more effectively be used to argue against believing the bible than what's in there. For example when he talks about ancient Israelite punishments not fitting the crime because they were a small group who needed an identity, indicating the Old Testament being a reflection of an ancient culture than "the breathed word of god" or whatever. Or when he talks about the Sermon on the Mount (24ish minute), and the old laws not applying to the newly Christian gentiles - well if the Council of Jerusalem says they don't! He mentions Jesus saying he's the fulfillment of the law in while arguing the old covenant being obsolete. I wonder why he didn't use the full quote... maybe it's because it says,“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished”

Truth is, this kid employs mental gymnastics to the utmost Christian degree when presenting his argument for why gays should be able to love (and his argument is more about gays being allowed to love and marry than about gay sex itself. At one point he talks about an interpretation of the bible where "men who changed from hetero to gay" are the subject, and not gays who were gay from the get-go.

I have an easier way to get rid of homophobia born of religious beliefs - stop listening to 2,000 year old desert people's opinions on society.
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Father (Peace be upon You) Satan (Peace be upon You), I call to you (Peace be upon You) from the deepest parts of my heart, I praise your (Peace be upon You) name with every breath of my body, I worship you (Peace be upon You) with every fiber of my being. You (Peace be upon You) shown me what true strength is. You (Peace be upon You) have shown me what true love is. Out of the darkness you (Peace be upon You) came to show me the true light.


My master (Peace be upon You), my father (Peace be upon You) and my friend (Peace be upon You) what a great gift that is.


Posted Image Hail to the King (PBUH)! Posted Image


#11 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 04:55 PM

I honestly don't care if I get flamed for this,
I have a gay brother, and I am his number 1 supporter, along with my entire family and close friends, people who use the bible or religion to bring hate on someone for an uncontrollable thing, those are the people who should be ridiculed and hated upon.
Anybody who uses their "god" as an excuse to discriminate against other people, are the people who deserved to be hated.


right FREAKIN ON to your last sentence brother but with an amendment , those people are not worth your hate rather pity and contempt , save your hate for racism , poverty and the greedy selfish people that wish to trash our planet in their never ending quest for more .

Edited by puckinloveicehockey, 07 July 2012 - 06:02 PM.

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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#12 Special Ed

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 04:55 PM

Gay guys left more women for me on Davie street. I have never had a problem finding and dating women in my area. Sure I had to put up with a little homo-harassment, but it was all worth it. No competition has been great and any other guy who can't see that, well I feel bad for him.







Actually I don't really feel bad for him. Again... Less competition. :bigblush:

Edited by Special Ed, 07 July 2012 - 04:57 PM.

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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#13 Gustavo Fring

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 05:08 PM

I like to have sex with my hand. I've been a hand lover for 14 years and it sickens me that I see prejudice all around.
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#14 Satan's Evil Twin

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 05:18 PM

Not to hijack the thread, but this probably doesn't deserve its own thread,

Google Announces Global Campaign To Legalize Gay Marriage

BY ON TOP MAGAZINE STAFF
PUBLISHED: JULY 07, 2012



Google has announced a global campaign in support of equal marriage rights for gay and lesbian couples.
The Internet giant announced its Legalize Love campaign at the Global LGBT Workplace Summit 2012, which took place in London.
The campaign launches Saturday, July 7 in Poland and Singapore. Organizers plan to expand the campaign to every country where Google has an office, focusing on countries where anti-gay sentiment runs high.
“We want our employees who are gay or lesbian or transgender to have the same experience outside the office as they do in the office,” Google's Mark Palmer-Edgecumbe is quoted by dot429.com as saying at the summit. “It is obviously a very ambitious piece of work.”
“Singapore wants to be a global financial center and world leader and we can push them on the fact that being a global center and a world leader means you have to treat all people the same, irrespective of their sexual orientation,” Palmer-Edgecumbe said of the decision to include Singapore in the campaign's initial phase.
Bob Amnnibale, an openly gay executive at Citi, applauded the effort: “The fact that Google is so virtual and its appeal is very wide and young demographically means it can help spread messaging very, very quickly.”


http://www.ontopmag....=1&Category=24#

How fabulous! They should start with wherever the guy in my sig is from.

Edited by Scorpio Ego, 07 July 2012 - 05:18 PM.

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Father (Peace be upon You) Satan (Peace be upon You), I call to you (Peace be upon You) from the deepest parts of my heart, I praise your (Peace be upon You) name with every breath of my body, I worship you (Peace be upon You) with every fiber of my being. You (Peace be upon You) shown me what true strength is. You (Peace be upon You) have shown me what true love is. Out of the darkness you (Peace be upon You) came to show me the true light.


My master (Peace be upon You), my father (Peace be upon You) and my friend (Peace be upon You) what a great gift that is.


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#15 Gran Turismo

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 05:22 PM

"Traditional interpretations" is pretty much bang on. I'd also add selective interpretation onto that.


Not religious, but doesn't the Bible say that it's acceptible to own slaves?
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#16 Satan's Evil Twin

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 05:24 PM

"Traditional interpretations" is pretty much bang on. I'd also add selective interpretation onto that.


Not religious, but doesn't the Bible say that it's acceptible to own slaves?


But you treat them well so it's okay.
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Father (Peace be upon You) Satan (Peace be upon You), I call to you (Peace be upon You) from the deepest parts of my heart, I praise your (Peace be upon You) name with every breath of my body, I worship you (Peace be upon You) with every fiber of my being. You (Peace be upon You) shown me what true strength is. You (Peace be upon You) have shown me what true love is. Out of the darkness you (Peace be upon You) came to show me the true light.


My master (Peace be upon You), my father (Peace be upon You) and my friend (Peace be upon You) what a great gift that is.


Posted Image Hail to the King (PBUH)! Posted Image


#17 VICanucksfan5551

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 06:04 PM

But you treat them well so it's okay.

If by treat them well you mean only beat them so badly that they take a couple days to die, then sure ;)

Edited by VICanucksfan5551, 07 July 2012 - 06:08 PM.

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#18 Kass9

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 06:08 PM

I don't support the gay act, but whatever.

Flame me all you want, I don't care. I won't reply to you anyways.

It's my opinion.
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#19 Kamero89

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 06:09 PM

I find it ironic that so many people who against gays, and/or gay marriage probably have watched lesbian porn at one point
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#20 Kamero89

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 06:14 PM

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I don't support the gay act, but whatever.

Flame me all you want, I don't care. I won't reply to you anyways.

It's my opinion.


lol this is the most cowardly post I have ever seen.You are basically saying "I hate them, but I won't say why, and if you defend them or debate with me over it, I will hide in a corner".
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#21 Kass9

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 06:16 PM

lol this is the most cowardly post I have ever seen.You are basically saying "I hate them, but I won't say why, and if you defend them or debate with me over it, I will hide in a corner".


Nope, didn't say I hate them or anything like that. You're jumping to conclusions.

I just said I don't like the act.

I said I'm not willing to argue with others, because there is no point.. I will still have my opinion, and they will have theirs.
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#22 Kamero89

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 06:22 PM

Nope, didn't say I hate them or anything like that. You're jumping to conclusions.

I just said I don't like the act.

I said I'm not willing to argue with others, because there is no point.. I will still have my opinion, and they will have theirs.


You posting a retort to this shows you are a liar. You JUST said you would not respond. "Not liking the act" is still "hate" just worded nicer. Me saying "women around the world don't like the potential act of being with you, and that they find you repulsive" is no different.

Well in my own opinion "I don't like the act of you living on earth", but I don't hate you. You just being nowhere near a modernized society seems like a good idea. No point of arguing about it, it is just my opinion.
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#23 Kass9

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 06:25 PM

You posting a retort to this shows you are a liar. You JUST said you would not respond. "Not liking the act" is still "hate" just worded nicer. Me saying "women around the world don't like the potential act of being with you, and that they find you repulsive" is no different.

Well in my own opinion "I don't like the act of you living on earth", but I don't hate you. You just being nowhere near a modernized society seems like a good idea. No point of arguing about it, it is just my opinion.


otherwise you would've assumed I would run to the corner..

oh well, I guess I start now.
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#24 Kamero89

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 06:34 PM

otherwise you would've assumed I would run to the corner..

oh well, I guess I start now.

Keep proving my point.

BTW SEVERAL studies have shown that most homophobes, have stronger attractions to the same sex than most regular people, in fact most scientists believe it to be a consensus. Judging by what you stated just a few posts ago when you said "I don't like the act", I believe you, yourself are homophobic.
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#25 Heretic

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 06:50 PM

I find it ironic that so many people who against gays, and/or gay marriage probably have watched lesbian porn at one point


What's ironic is, being gay isn't about "sex" - it's about being in a loving and caring relationship with someone of the same sex.
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McCoy: We were speculating. Is God really out there?
Kirk: Maybe he's not out there, Bones. Maybe he's right here. [points to his heart]

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#26 Satan's Evil Twin

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 06:55 PM

What's ironic is, being gay isn't about "sex" - it's about being in a loving and caring relationship with someone of the same sex.


Huh? Is being straight about being in a loving and caring relationship with someone of the opposite sex?
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Father (Peace be upon You) Satan (Peace be upon You), I call to you (Peace be upon You) from the deepest parts of my heart, I praise your (Peace be upon You) name with every breath of my body, I worship you (Peace be upon You) with every fiber of my being. You (Peace be upon You) shown me what true strength is. You (Peace be upon You) have shown me what true love is. Out of the darkness you (Peace be upon You) came to show me the true light.


My master (Peace be upon You), my father (Peace be upon You) and my friend (Peace be upon You) what a great gift that is.


Posted Image Hail to the King (PBUH)! Posted Image


#27 Niloc009

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 06:58 PM

I don't support the gay act, but whatever.

Flame me all you want, I don't care. I won't reply to you anyways.

It's my opinion.


Not flaming, but I think you need to justify your position.
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#28 StevenStamkos

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 06:59 PM

Idk where this misconception about Christians hating gay people comes from. They do not hate the people. Actually they love them but are not okay with what they practice. It's the same thing as vegetarians not approving people eating meat. Do they hate people who choose to eat meat? Also I am aware there are some "Christians" who do spread hate against gay, but they are few compared to the whole who don't. Thinking that these radicals actually represents all Christians' perspectives is as bad as saying all black people steal because you've seen one person do it.
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#29 Heretic

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 07:03 PM

Huh? Is being straight about being in a loving and caring relationship with someone of the opposite sex?


You got it.
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McCoy: We were speculating. Is God really out there?
Kirk: Maybe he's not out there, Bones. Maybe he's right here. [points to his heart]

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#30 Satan's Evil Twin

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 07:05 PM

You got it.


So what are people who are not in loving and caring relationships?
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Father (Peace be upon You) Satan (Peace be upon You), I call to you (Peace be upon You) from the deepest parts of my heart, I praise your (Peace be upon You) name with every breath of my body, I worship you (Peace be upon You) with every fiber of my being. You (Peace be upon You) shown me what true strength is. You (Peace be upon You) have shown me what true love is. Out of the darkness you (Peace be upon You) came to show me the true light.


My master (Peace be upon You), my father (Peace be upon You) and my friend (Peace be upon You) what a great gift that is.


Posted Image Hail to the King (PBUH)! Posted Image





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