Heretic Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 No I said "Why would a god let a 5 year olds parents be killed and then make that kid orphaned and unloved" That's such a cruel thing to do for a "creator of people" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armada Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Why would man allow people to kill each other and make that kid orphaned and unloved? What a cruel thing for man to do to each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drybone Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 It is my opinion that this entire thread has been derailed into a troll fest over whether you believe in God or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.K. Chesterton Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Not religious, but doesn't the Bible say that it's acceptible to own slaves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Evil Twin Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Read Dr. Paul Copan's Is God A Moral Monster?: Making Sense of the Old Testament God. I am currently reading it and it is an excellent book that deals with questions concerning slavery and some of the Mosaic laws. Yes, I didn't watch it either. I too would prefer an (enlarged) summary of the video's contents. Heretic, because I have not watched the video (nor do I have the time to at this point) can you answer this question for me, because it seems like the obviously crucial one. Is Matthew Vines saying that is is acceptable within Christianity to be a practicing homosexual (i.e. engage in sexual relations with someone of the same sex) or merely to struggle with same-sex attraction while remaining a celibate Christian? If it is the latter, fair enough, I agree. It has been said that Henri Nouwen, one of the most beloved Christian writers of the last century, struggled with homosexual attraction but he remained celibate all his life. Close same-sex companionship is compatible with Christianity (see David and Jonathan) but this is Platonic love. If it is the former, I fear Vines' is still wrong. He says that Christians are free of the "old law". But what does he mean by that? There are three types of Old Testament law: civil, ceremonial and moral. The civil law applies to government and because we are to "render unto Caesar's what is Caesar's" then we are to practice the laws mandated by the government. Christians are certainly free of the ceremonial law (no more animal sacrifices). But the moral law we are not free from - we do not toss out the Ten Commandments because they are part of the "old law". Likewise, verses that prohibit child sacrifice, homosexuality, etc...still apply. Again, I have not watched the video, but I have problems with this quote of yours: I would agree with you that we are supposed to be social, after all, the Trinity itself is a triune community who love and give joy to one another. Likewise, we find comfort and encouragement in a fellowship of believers. But does God say we are each to have an intimate relationship with someone? I would suggest not (1 Corinthians 7:7-9). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 Why would a god allow a man to kill another man. I certainly wouldn't, if he has the power to kill certain innocent people in the bible why can't he rid of all the bad people. Makes absolutely no sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 It is my opinion that this entire thread has been derailed into a troll fest over whether you believe in God or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 Read Dr. Paul Copan's Is God A Moral Monster?: Making Sense of the Old Testament God. I am currently reading it and it is an excellent book that deals with questions concerning slavery and some of the Mosaic laws. Yes, I didn't watch it either. I too would prefer an (enlarged) summary of the video's contents. Heretic, because I have not watched the video (nor do I have the time to at this point) can you answer this question for me, because it seems like the obviously crucial one. Is Matthew Vines saying that is is acceptable within Christianity to be a practicing homosexual (i.e. engage in sexual relations with someone of the same sex) or merely to struggle with same-sex attraction while remaining a celibate Christian? If it is the latter, fair enough, I agree. It has been said that Henri Nouwen, one of the most beloved Christian writers of the last century, struggled with homosexual attraction but he remained celibate all his life. Close same-sex companionship is compatible with Christianity (see David and Jonathan) but this is Platonic love. If it is the former, I fear Vines' is still wrong. He says that Christians are free of the "old law". But what does he mean by that? There are three types of Old Testament law: civil, ceremonial and moral. The civil law applies to government and because we are to "render unto Caesar's what is Caesar's" then we are to practice the laws mandated by the government. Christians are certainly free of the ceremonial law (no more animal sacrifices). But the moral law we are not free from - we do not toss out the Ten Commandments because they are part of the "old law". Likewise, verses that prohibit child sacrifice, homosexuality, etc...still apply. Again, I have not watched the video, but I have problems with this quote of yours: I would agree with you that we are supposed to be social, after all, the Trinity itself is a triune community who love and give joy to one another. Likewise, we find comfort and encouragement in a fellowship of believers. But does God say we are each to have an intimate relationship with someone? I would suggest not (1 Corinthians 7:7-9). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Evil Twin Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 So what about Mathew 5:17? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drybone Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Yes, his interpretation of the Bible is that homosexuality is not dis-proved of in the Bible. And yes, I agree with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armada Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 For anyone who hates gays... This is pretty much your depiction of them. Edit: Due to some people being sensitive to this video, you have to realize that even though this video was unintentionally funny and ridiculed by the internet it is a very serious depiction of what some people use the bible to show gays as evil twisted people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNinja Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Why would man allow people to kill each other and make that kid orphaned and unloved? What a cruel thing for man to do to each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drybone Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 So what about Mathew 5:17? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzi Babe Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 For anyone who hates gays... This is pretty much your depiction of them. *content removed* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jägermeister Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 And this ^^^ is the sort of post that makes any respectful debate or discussion of this topic pretty much impossible on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armada Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 And this ^^^ is the sort of post that makes any respectful debate or discussion of this topic pretty much impossible on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNinja Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 No I said "Why would a god let a 5 year olds parents be killed and then make that kid orphaned and unloved" That's such a cruel thing to do for a "creator of people" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armada Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 First of all, how do we know that child would be 'orphaned and unloved' (obvious emphasis on the unloved)? What if that child's biological parents were going to subject that child to decades of abuse and torment, for example? How do you know that orphan's adopting parents would not be the most loving and caring of parents? We can speculate all day long. All we are capable of doing is observing and commenting on that which is apparent from the surface and often things on the surface can be deceiving and often we may not even really know anything about the surface as well. In reality we have little or no knowledge of the situations and circumstances of people and even when we think we do, we don't. In reality, we have no idea even of what our best friends, or fathers or mothers or brothers do behind closed doors when nobody else is around. "Verily, you are those who have disputed about that of which you have knowledge. Why do you then dispute concerning that which you have no knowledge? It is Allah Who knows, and you know not." (Qur'an translation 3:66) "And whatever of misfortune befalls you, it is because of what your hands have earned. And He pardons much." (Qur'an translation 42:30) "Whatever of good reaches you, is from Allah, but whatever of evil befalls you, is from yourself." (Qur'an translation 4:79) So unless an individual is 'all-seeing' and 'all-hearing' in reality they have no knowledge about the affairs of other people in the world. Furthermore, from the perspective of one who believes in the Hereafter, life in this world is a short, temporary life and if supposed to be a test and it is a life that could end at any time. Death is the only guarantee in life so one should live life in righteousness, knowing we could go at anytime and knowing that this life consists of tests. "And certainly, We shall test you with something of fear, hunger, loss of wealth, lives and fruits, but give glad tidings to the patient." (Qur'an translation 2:155) "Or think you that you will enter Paradise without such (trials) as came to those who passed away before you?" (Qur'an translation 2:214) "When Our Torment reached them, why then did they not believe with humility? But their hearts became hardened, and Satan made fair seeming to them that which they used to do." (Qur'an translation 6:43) The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) stated (the meaning which is): ‘Worshipping at times of tribulation and confusion is like migrating to join me.' and “There is nothing that befalls a believer, not even a thorn that pricks him, but Allah will record one good deed for him and will remove one bad deed from him." This is the Islamic perspective anyways. In a sense, we are hearing some say that people should not be judgmental toward others and so would the same then not be a strict precept when it comes to mankind towards the Creator of all that exists? "He cannot be questioned as to what He does, while they will be questioned." (Qur'an translation 21:23) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzi Babe Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Also if you read the rest of the thread you'd realize I was having a mature discussion, so don't jump the gun, it seems to be a continuing theme with you, too quick to judge before reading into the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logic Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Anyone that hates gay people should make a list of 5 reasons why. There are hundreds of other things/People that actually deserve hate. Hating people because of their sexual orientation is like hating someone because of their eyecolor. Honestly, you homophobes remind me of the racists back in the 50's, with their "Color mixing is wrong" its history all over again except this time its "Homosexuality is a sin" I roll my eyes and laugh at these people. I pity them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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