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What Gillis wants vs. what Tallon wants to give


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Poll: What Gillis wants vs. what Tallon wants to give (209 member(s) have cast votes)

Which of these young talented players would you most want to come back in a deal for lu ( huberdeau, gudbranson probably not gonna happen )

  1. Quinton Howden (30 votes [14.42%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.42%

  2. Nick Bjugstad (122 votes [58.65%])

    Percentage of vote: 58.65%

  3. Dmitry Kulikov (56 votes [26.92%])

    Percentage of vote: 26.92%

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#61 Tortorella's Rant

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 05:29 PM

Someone correct me if im wrong, but isnt Upshall the guy who hates Kesler?? Didnt he make some comment about how much he hates him when we was still with the Flyers??

Also, Eff Upshall or Versteeg (still hate him)

I say get one of their top prospects (Gudbranson,Huberdeau,Bjugstad) then go hard after Doan tommorow... call Liden, Bure Gregor Robertson, Rick Hansen, Steve Nash, Pamela Anderson to convince him, i dont care, just get him here! lol


One of those guys needs to be included. This is Roberto Luongo. A franchise goaltender. Those are their top prospects/young players. If Tallon refused to part with one of them I wouldn't even be talking to him until he agreed to give one of them up. Gotta give to get.
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#62 Jägermeister

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 05:31 PM

Oh you changed it? I would take Howden over Bjugstad, but I'm kinda Biased I like Howden.

He did score 40 goals this year and like the speed he brings but Bjugstad might be better.

And I think Raymond is more valuable imo, not alot but I bit. But sometimes I dont see the full value in those 3rd and 4th line guys like Mattias so this could be the case.


No, I always had Bjugstad. You must've read it wrong.
You even quoted it in your 1st response to it.

Edited by Jagermeister, 08 July 2012 - 05:32 PM.

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#63 erbiy74

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 05:33 PM

Panthers fan here. You're not getting Kulikov (Well, you shouldn't be). And we do not want Raymond or Ballard.



You're funny.



You are also funny.

funny cuz it's true...? lool

#64 stawns

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 05:34 PM

and I don't think Tallon needs to. Their goaltending situation is not all that bad. Definitely not worth giving up high end prospects to upgrade.


It's not about goaltending, it's about having a player that can put butts in seats..........they desperately need a face for their franchise, they haven't had one since Lu left........they need to sell tix in a bad way.

#65 Ray Canuck

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 05:35 PM

not sure the trade will happen with Florida...
Sure sounded like Lou wouldn't mind Chi-Town (fox interview) and they need goaltending!
Tallon is between a rock and a hard place, he's got the makings of a decent team and is OK in net but not great IMO.
Tallon needs to be shrewd as they are close to making a splash in the SE. Does he give up talent to make sure his net is solid or keep what he has and hope for the best?
I'd like Gillis to get at least one prospect, drafting late isn't good in the long term.
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#66 stawns

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 05:36 PM

I dont think Gudbranson is completely out of the question.

TO VANCOUVER:

-Erik Gudbranson (6'5" 210 lbs, 20 years old and mean as hell)
-Jack Skille (6'1" 217 lbs, 25 yo. Versatile winger that can score and isn't afraid to throw the body)
-Scott Clemmensen (34 yo veteran would be an excellent backup to Cory, Also gives FLD a bit more incentive to do the trade in being able to keep their starting goalie last year as a back up, giving them insurance in net)

TO FLORIDA:

-Roberto Luongo (Proven all-star goalie, essentially guarantees FLD a playoff spot next season)
-Rights to Mason Raymond (Swapping Skille for MAY RAY gives VAN a grittier winger while not cutting down on team speed or scoring while giving FLD more team speed and a potential 20 goal 40 point winger if put in the right situation)
-1st round pick (gives FLD the chance to possibly replace Gudbranson in the first round this coming draft)
-Yann Sauve (Probably going to mature into a solid 3rd pairing Dman in the coming years with good PK skills and grit)
-Anton Rodin (Has good potential, could mature into a speedy 2nd liner with a good shot similar to MAY RAY)

I think this is a fair deal for both clubs. Florida gets; a proven all-star starting goalie for a future all-star d-man. A speedy winger who could rejuvenate his career as well as a good offensive prospect in Anton Rodin for a useful and versatile but expendable winger in Skille, and essentially a 1st rounder and a good blue line prospect in Yann Sauve for their back-up from last season.

What Vancouver gets is clear, Gudbranson who is looking like the next Chris Pronger at this point - look at his fights on hockeyfights.com, he's a mean mother f*cker. Aswell as a bigger tougher winger for the 3rd/4th lines than Raymond and a back-up for Corey. I think Tallon could get behind this deal with maybe a little tinkering.


MG is never going to give up 5 pieces of his franchise depth for three back

anyone wanting Upshall back, in any capacity, are crazy..........they don't get more cancerous in a dressing rom than SU........unless he's grown up a lot in the last two years, he's poison

Edited by stawns, 08 July 2012 - 05:37 PM.


#67 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 05:37 PM

No, I always had Bjugstad. You must've read it wrong.
You even quoted it in your 1st response to it.


Oh yeah your right, I just read it wrong.

Maybe I'm going blind or something lol :lol:

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#68 Dr. J.

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 05:40 PM

Panthers fan here. You're not getting Kulikov (Well, you shouldn't be). And we do not want Raymond or Ballard.



You're funny.



You are also funny.


I am interested in hearing from a Panthers fan. You have told us what you wouldn't give. What would you offer?

#69 Edler Is a Beast

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 05:51 PM

They have a very deep prospect pool so it shouldn't unreasonable to think they could afford to give one up in a trade. I went with Howden, largely just because he's Canadian lol. Nick Bjugstad would be nice too since we could really use an up-and-coming center, now that whats-his-face got traded lol.

#70 jmfaminoff

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 05:53 PM

Add in one more thing coming to us, this is the way I see that

Raymond = Mattias
Luongo > Theodore + Howden

You could even argue Raymond is worth more than Mattias.

But I sometimes don't see the full value in 3rd and 4th line guys so that could be the case here.

With Raymond, we will see a major improvement this year. The fact that he has the whole summer to gain weight and train will make a big difference. Then there is the motivation of earning a new contract for next year.

#71 Edler Is a Beast

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 05:54 PM

Also, I wish people would stop with the trade ideas that involve Ballard+Raymond. NOBODY WANTS THEM lol.


That's like trading your entire farm team for Crosby and Malkin or something. Quantity isn't a good enough substitute for quality when it comes to hockey trades. We aren't going to get good players if we're throwing together all our crap players we wanna get rid of.

#72 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 05:55 PM

With Raymond, we will see a major improvement this year. The fact that he has the whole summer to gain weight and train will make a big difference. Then there is the motivation of earning a new contract for next year.


Great then hopefully we see it in FLA or somewhere else, he doesnt fit here anymore.

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#73 bluesman60

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 05:56 PM

Trading Luongo is going to be a defining moment in MG tenure as GM.
When he does make a trade, I would hope that he gets a top 6 forward, a top prospect and a pick.
I think Raymond will be included in the package so the arbitration ruling might be the hold up.
There is no way Luongo should be traded for 3rd or 4th line players because those guys are easier to get. Top 6 forwards are harder to get....just like a top goalie is tough to get....the sooner some GM's come to their senses and focus on aquiring reliable goaltending, things will progress. Right now there doesn't seem to be any urgency.
It would be great to see Luongo go to Florida but MG has to do what is right for the Vancouver Canucks. If that means trading Luo to a different team beacuse the package is right...get it done.
Florida and TO aren't the only teams that would see Luongo as an upgrade in goal.

Edited by bluesman60, 08 July 2012 - 05:59 PM.


#74 Kazmanian Devil

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 05:57 PM

You make good points, he's risky no doubt. And he hasn't done much.

But I disgaree about Raymond losing his offensive instincts (and I am a huge Raymond hater) You sort of right but He still has the hands, and he actually has good hands, he has the offensive IQ he just does stupid stuff or atleast it seems stupid, but his style of play and skillset could valuable, he just needs the right fit, and we don't have that fit for him, but he could maybe fidn it on your team, just put him with Weiss and he should be good.

And Mattias could be deemed as expendable, since you guys have some young players expected to make the jump soon, like Huberbeau, Bjugstad, Howden. We might get one of either Bjugstad or Howden but still Huberbeau might make the just aswell as the one we don't get and if one or both do you will need spots for them.


We have plenty of room (lost a lot of forwards to UFA), so Matthias isn't really expendable. To put it bluntly, Raymond does do stupid things on offense. He won't be effective until he corrects that, though it may be a confidence issue.

i would like to hear your take on these deals:

theodore, bjugstad, versteeg

or

theodore, bjugstad, and upshall


I'm going to assume this is for just Luongo. If Versteeg is moved, I'd like for the Panthers to get Schroeder as well, not sure how highly Canucks fans value him though. Vancouver probably underpays in the one with Upshall.

Never the less, you avoided answering the question.


It was likely rhetorical.

Funny thing is We (Canucks) are in the drivers seat for this trade not you guys (Florida). You will give up what we want for Lou.


p.s.
Im sick of makin trades with Florida. I hope a trade never happens with them


I doubt that Tallon is going to ludicrously overpay for Luongo. However, someone made a point about the Panthers needing to sell tickets, which is true. So you may be right, depends on what the Panthers ownership group thinks.

No one (including Tallon and Gillis) cares what you have to say so why should we care who you "want"? its a hockey deal and the GM's have a million times more information on players than either you or I do and could have a very different opinion on someone like Raymond than you think. Why don't you stick to the Florida message board.


Nobody cares? Seems to be generating a fair bit of discussion. Obviously Tallon and Gillis don't care what a random kid thinks. Oh, and the Panthers boar dis devoid of life.

funny cuz it's true...? lool


What's true? The Canucks have better prospects than the Panthers, or that Raymond is more valuable than Matthias? The Raymond thing, perhaps. Do some research on your prospects though. Huberdeau > Any Canucks prospect.

I am interested in hearing from a Panthers fan. You have told us what you wouldn't give. What would you offer?


I'm not great at proposals, but:

Bjugstad/Howden (whichever the Canucks would prefer)
Theodore
Goc/Matthias/Upshall
possibly a pick (depends which forward is moved)

for

Luongo

Or maybe add Versteeg and Schroder from their respective sides.

Edited by Kazakh Man, 08 July 2012 - 06:02 PM.

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#75 Drybone

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 06:03 PM

We have plenty of room (lost a lot of forwards to UFA), so Matthias isn't really expendable. To put it bluntly, Raymond does do stupid things on offense. He won't be effective until he corrects that, though it may be a confidence issue.



I'm going to assume this is for just Luongo. If Versteeg is moved, I'd like for the Panthers to get Schroeder as well, not sure how highly Canucks fans value him though. Vancouver probably underpays in the one with Upshall.



It was likely rhetorical.



I doubt that Tallon is going to ludicrously overpay for Luongo. However, someone made a point about the Panthers needing to sell tickets, which is true. So you may be right, depends on what the Panthers ownership group thinks.



Nobody cares? Seems to be generating a fair bit of discussion. Obviously Tallon and Gillis don't care what a random kid thinks. Oh, and the Panthers boar dis devoid of life.



What's true? The Canucks have better prospects than the Panthers, or that Raymond is more valuable than Matthias? The Raymond thing, perhaps. Do some research on your prospects though. Huberdeau > Any Canucks prospect.


Hi. Nice to see a Panthers fan on here. Im very glad you guys made the playoffs and hope you continue to rise. You deserve all the best after these many years.

I have a few questions if you have a moment.

You have 3000 posts on this site . Are the Canucks your second favorite team? You must have a pile of posts on the Panthers board.

Secondly, I appreciate your comments but you never mention a deal that you think is legitimate from the Panthers point of view. It would help greatly if us Canucks fans would know where you are coming from . Please let us know what you believe a fair deal is.
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#76 radski

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 06:04 PM

Everyone that's mentioned Theodore in trade offers for Lu has his NTC hampering the deal. Makes sense too given how things have panned out for Lu since the playoffs.

#77 Kazmanian Devil

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 06:06 PM

Hi. Nice to see a Panthers fan on here. Im very glad you guys made the playoffs and hope you continue to rise. You deserve all the best after these many years.

I have a few questions if you have a moment.

You have 3000 posts on this site . Are the Canucks your second favorite team? You must have a pile of posts on the Panthers board.

Secondly, I appreciate your comments but you never mention a deal that you think is legitimate from the Panthers point of view. It would help greatly if us Canucks fans would know where you are coming from . Please let us know what you believe a fair deal is.


Thanks for the support. I guess you could say that the Canucks are my second favourite team. The Panthers board is too inactive for my taste, so I don't visit it. I've added a proposal to my other post.

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#78 Fozzy

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 06:16 PM

Luongo for Bjustgad, Theodore and a 1st?

Florida get a franchise goaltender who will certainly sell tickets AND win them games whilst we get Bjustgad and a 1st ( that helps our future ) and Theodore as a stop gap for a year until Lack is ready.

#79 K_9

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 06:19 PM

Yeah he is, unless we overpay rediculously like in your proposal.

But seriously it was an overpayment...


I don't think its an over payment at all, infact I think it would take more than that, but Gudbranson literally has Pronger potential and I believe both Tallon and Gillis know that.

Also were not giving up much if you consider what these prospects are likely to do, Sauve - potentially a 3rd pairing dman in FLD, however in Van its going to take at least a couple more years of grooming in the AHL with how many dmen we have locked up long term.

Same with Rodin and Connauton, people need to understand that were not going to get the players we want without giving up equal value, that's just how hockey trades work. And the good thing about giving up prospects at this point is that we can get players back who will make an immediate and significant impact while not diminishing the starting roster.

MG is never going to give up 5 pieces of his franchise depth for three back

anyone wanting Upshall back, in any capacity, are crazy..........they don't get more cancerous in a dressing rom than SU........unless he's grown up a lot in the last two years, he's poison


Well in my proposal were only taking 3 players out of the minors (assuming that our 2013 1st rd pick would join the wolves immediately) so I'm not sure where you came up with 5...

At any rate, I think that the addition of Skille, Clemmensen and Gudbranson to the starting line-up while only removing Raymond and Lu, would bring more grit, youth and potential to the roster in both Skille and to a greater extent in Gudbranson, while also adding a veteran back-up to provide enough relief for Corey in his first season as a starter.

Also from the Florida stand-point this trade makes sense because although you are giving up a blue chip dman you are guaranteeing a return to the playoffs next season with Lu back in town as well as bringing in Raymond to replace Skille in the top 6. The main reason why Florida would get behind this is because it brings in young players like Rodin, Sauve and perhaps Connauton or Corrado who could push for a roster spot this camp thus making your team better and intensifying internal competition and expectations for veteran players like *cough cough* Sturm...

Essentially this deal works both ways because both teams are getting what they need, Florida gets young depth roster players who wouldn't have made Van anyways so we're not losing much depth to our roster and a playoff guaranteeing goaltender, while Van brings in the Defender of our dreams.
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#80 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 06:29 PM

Luongo for Bjustgad, Theodore and a 1st?

Florida get a franchise goaltender who will certainly sell tickets AND win them games whilst we get Bjustgad and a 1st ( that helps our future ) and Theodore as a stop gap for a year until Lack is ready.


That's not bad. Only thing is we have 2 contracts coming back and I think we're pushing the contract limit as is. Maybe a throw in contract like Archibald or something otherwise I'd do it.

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Credit to -Vintage Canuck-


#81 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 06:30 PM

We have plenty of room (lost a lot of forwards to UFA), so Matthias isn't really expendable. To put it bluntly, Raymond does do stupid things on offense. He won't be effective until he corrects that, though it may be a confidence issue.


Ya I agree.

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#82 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 06:41 PM

I don't think its an over payment at all, infact I think it would take more than that, but Gudbranson literally has Pronger potential and I believe both Tallon and Gillis know that.

Also were not giving up much if you consider what these prospects are likely to do, Sauve - potentially a 3rd pairing dman in FLD, however in Van its going to take at least a couple more years of grooming in the AHL with how many dmen we have locked up long term.

Same with Rodin and Connauton, people need to understand that were not going to get the players we want without giving up equal value, that's just how hockey trades work. And the good thing about giving up prospects at this point is that we can get players back who will make an immediate and significant impact while not diminishing the starting roster.


Well lets see this is probably the way the value goes.

Luongo = Gudbranson
Raymond > Skille
Sauve + Rodin + 1st > Clemmensen

Even if you think Gudbranson is worth more than Luongo, then you add something in from the Clemmensen part, but still we lose the deal, in alot of ways.

It will probably take an overpayment to get Gudbranson but at this point I don't think we are in a position to overpay like that. I would rather keep what we have.

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#83 NightHawkSniper

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 06:46 PM

Incorrect punctuation. You're asking a question, so a question mark should be used.


Oh Noes the grammer polise have struk again

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#84 Rollieo Del Fuego

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 06:51 PM

Panthers fan here. You're not getting Kulikov (Well, you shouldn't be). And we do not want Raymond or Ballard.



You're funny.



You are also funny.


Welcome, I sort of agree except for Raymond. He scored 25 goals then breaks his back, you do not make is all the way back from that for a year or two even.
Raymond could hit 25 again as soon as next year with top 2 line minutes.
Cheers.

#85 NP-4815162342

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 06:53 PM

To van
Theodore
Versteeg
1rst

To fla
Luongo
Raymond

#86 D.Doughty

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 06:54 PM

If we didn't trade for Ballard, we could have had Howden...

#87 aqua59

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 06:59 PM

Just glad you have no clue.

#88 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 07:00 PM

TO VAN:
Theodore
Matthias
Bjugstad

TO FLORIDA:
Luongo
Raymond


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#89 Truman

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 07:07 PM

To van
Theodore
Versteeg
1rst

To fla
Luongo
Raymond


Theodore has a NTC though only one year left on his deal. I dunno if he'd be down with moving. Why Theodore willing to come to Vancouver for one year only, become the next scapegoat for Vancouver's fans, pay more taxes and tax only for one year?

#90 K_9

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 07:12 PM

Well lets see this is probably the way the value goes.

Luongo = Gudbranson
Raymond > Skille
Sauve + Rodin + 1st > Clemmensen

Even if you think Gudbranson is worth more than Luongo, then you add something in from the Clemmensen part, but still we lose the deal, in alot of ways.

It will probably take an overpayment to get Gudbranson but at this point I don't think we are in a position to overpay like that. I would rather keep what we have.


Your evaluation is clearly not very accurate, Skille is just as good a skater as Raymond but bigger and grittier and can play the bottom 6 role much better than Raymond would be able to.

I would say that skille > Raymond

And I would say Lu + 1st + Sauve + Rodin = Gudbranson + Clemmensen

And why exactly is it that you want to keep Sauve and Rodin? neither have over whelmed in any testing or in the minors but both are young enough that increased ice time and a greater oppourtunity in Florida might just be what they need to crack the NHL. If we kept them there is a much less likely chance of them ever making the NHL let alone our roster, in fact I'm willing to bet that Rodin never makes the Canucks and Sauve doesn't play more than 3rd pairing minutes. And I'd be willing to bet that Gudbranson would come to Van and turn into Pronger reborn, or at least very close.
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