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[Signing] - Raymond


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#301 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 10:08 AM

MayRay's gonna get the last word and shut a lot of people up.



Didn't work with Bieksa....

The CDC armchair GMs will trot out the "fluke season" or "contract year" explanations. Then they'll post a photo or a comment on Raymond falling down and congratulate themselves on how funny they are.
Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#302 leftcoast

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 10:08 AM

I wonder if he fell over when he read the contract offer?

But honestly, I think we should give him a chance to prove himself after his injury, I also think this is an important year for him for his career. He will be UFA at the end of the year, and the puck is in his zone. Let's hope he doesn't skate super fast trip over a phantom player and leave it behind...

Totally.....i want a fresh, fully healed Willie


#303 suolucidir

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 10:25 AM

I expect him to come in with greatly increased core strength. I think we may find ourselves with the 50pt player who drove the play so effectively. That player would fit anywhere in our bottom 9 and give us a lot of versatility.

Edited by suolucidir, 10 July 2012 - 10:26 AM.

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Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists somewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.

It bugs me when people pull out the gold medal for an example... Luongo only had to outplay Brodeur.


#304 knuck

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 10:50 AM

First off, it doesn't matter what happened to Raymond's back. There are players that have had near career ending injuries and play horrible because of it. Too bad. It doesn't mean we should run out and sign them... Given that his cap hit is not too significant doesn't make him a suitable player either. And don't bother with his personal relationship with Garrison. What has Garrison done for the Canucks to justify his buddy Raymond's contract.

Plus, we don't have a position for him. He's not a 1st/2nd line caliber player and he doesn't have any 3rd/4th line qualities. Oh, and he is not on PP or PK. You can't even categorize him as a depth player with a 2M+ salary. And finally, he has "ZERO" trade value.

I'm not a big fan of Ballard and his contract either, but at least we have a position for him.

So what is the upside you ask? None.

#305 Gretzky's Mullet

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 01:04 PM

First off, it doesn't matter what happened to Raymond's back. There are players that have had near career ending injuries and play horrible because of it. Too bad. It doesn't mean we should run out and sign them... Given that his cap hit is not too significant doesn't make him a suitable player either. And don't bother with his personal relationship with Garrison. What has Garrison done for the Canucks to justify his buddy Raymond's contract.

Plus, we don't have a position for him. He's not a 1st/2nd line caliber player and he doesn't have any 3rd/4th line qualities. Oh, and he is not on PP or PK. You can't even categorize him as a depth player with a 2M+ salary. And finally, he has "ZERO" trade value.

I'm not a big fan of Ballard and his contract either, but at least we have a position for him.

So what is the upside you ask? None.

wow, that's one of the worst posts in this thread. Raymond absolutely has 3rd line value, he does play on the PK, and the year before he got hurt, he had the highest possession-based advanced metrics on the entire team. Do you actually watch the team?
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#306 Tyrone.biggums08

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 01:47 PM

Seriously? $2.275 for a guy who can't stay on his skates for a full shift?

#307 suolucidir

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 02:41 PM

First off, it doesn't matter what happened to Raymond's back. There are players that have had near career ending injuries and play horrible because of it. Too bad. It doesn't mean we should run out and sign them... Given that his cap hit is not too significant doesn't make him a suitable player either. And don't bother with his personal relationship with Garrison. What has Garrison done for the Canucks to justify his buddy Raymond's contract.

Plus, we don't have a position for him. He's not a 1st/2nd line caliber player and he doesn't have any 3rd/4th line qualities. Oh, and he is not on PP or PK. You can't even categorize him as a depth player with a 2M+ salary. And finally, he has "ZERO" trade value.

I'm not a big fan of Ballard and his contract either, but at least we have a position for him.

So what is the upside you ask? None.

It's funny because you're wrong about basically everything.

There's a reason so many of the players on our team seemed like they took a step back, and that reason is lost off season training time. Some of that, is just from having such a long run. Mostly, though, it's from the injuries sustained. In today's NHL good players spend their summers bulking up and training for the next season. When you have serious injuries such as a torn hip labrum, or a broken back, that takes away from your ability to prepare your body for next year's campaign. His Broken back doesn't mean he's bad forever now. It means he was disadvantaged last season. This coming season is when we'll find out if he can regain his form.

Raymond prior to the back injury was valuable anywhere in our bottom 9, and on the PK. He was a 40-50+ point player who drove the play up the ice. He was worth 2.6 mil easy.
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Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists somewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.

It bugs me when people pull out the gold medal for an example... Luongo only had to outplay Brodeur.


#308 Bananas

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 04:13 PM

Sedins: Would always be 2nd liners
Kesler: Nothing more than a 3rd line centre
Hansen: Doubtful he'd be a canuck regular
Schneider: Nothing more than trade bait
Bieksa: Worst defensemen to ever play the game
Burrows: A mere fourth liner....3rd line winger at best
Raymond: See thread



Sergei Shirokov: fail
Hey CDC! Remember this!?

http://forum.canucks...in-this-change/

#309 knuck

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 06:55 PM

wow, that's one of the worst posts in this thread. Raymond absolutely has 3rd line value, he does play on the PK, and the year before he got hurt, he had the highest possession-based advanced metrics on the entire team. Do you actually watch the team?


It may be one of your least favourite posts, sure!
Listen, obviously you like the guy and that's fine. Cameo appearances due to the game or the roster circumstances do not make you a fixture or a role player. Nobody is discrediting how he came out the season before but the fact is, and you would agree, that he had a massive injury. And yes, we all watched the guy last season.

It's funny because you're wrong about basically everything.

There's a reason so many of the players on our team seemed like they took a step back, and that reason is lost off season training time. Some of that, is just from having such a long run. Mostly, though, it's from the injuries sustained. In today's NHL good players spend their summers bulking up and training for the next season. When you have serious injuries such as a torn hip labrum, or a broken back, that takes away from your ability to prepare your body for next year's campaign. His Broken back doesn't mean he's bad forever now. It means he was disadvantaged last season. This coming season is when we'll find out if he can regain his form.

Raymond prior to the back injury was valuable anywhere in our bottom 9, and on the PK. He was a 40-50+ point player who drove the play up the ice. He was worth 2.6 mil easy.


Dear Doctor,
Basically, you are going with the injury excuses and the ghost of the seasons past. All your sentences are in past tense.

My point is, he is no "asset" now and his recovery path to his questionable potential is doubtful enough to deny him an offer. Why sign Richard Park 2.0 if you don’t have to. Wouldn’t you rather see a prospect take his roster spot, let alone half his salary?

Our best scenario is to include him in a deal that otherwise would have cost us a fourth rounder. A fourth rounder saved, is a fourth rounder earned.

#310 hockeyking

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 07:32 PM

It may be one of your least favourite posts, sure!
Listen, obviously you like the guy and that's fine. Cameo appearances due to the game or the roster circumstances do not make you a fixture or a role player. Nobody is discrediting how he came out the season before but the fact is, and you would agree, that he had a massive injury. And yes, we all watched the guy last season.



Dear Doctor,
Basically, you are going with the injury excuses and the ghost of the seasons past. All your sentences are in past tense.

My point is, he is no "asset" now and his recovery path to his questionable potential is doubtful enough to deny him an offer. Why sign Richard Park 2.0 if you don’t have to. Wouldn’t you rather see a prospect take his roster spot, let alone half his salary?

Our best scenario is to include him in a deal that otherwise would have cost us a fourth rounder. A fourth rounder saved, is a fourth rounder earned.

not for the sake of having a prospect on the roster. he would have to beat him out for the spot then sure if not no.

#311 Avicii

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 07:50 PM

How can people use the "Long Run" as an excuse?

Detroit and Pittsburgh beat their conferences for TWO straight seasons.

????

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#312 Sergei Shirokov

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 08:23 PM

Sergei Shirokov: fail


It's all about patience. That why detroit has been so successful and thats where a lot of our successful stems from. We were patient with all our players and they ended up paying dividends.

#313 Spoosh

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 04:47 AM

wow, that's one of the worst posts in this thread. Raymond absolutely has 3rd line value, he does play on the PK, and the year before he got hurt, he had the highest possession-based advanced metrics on the entire team. Do you actually watch the team?


Almost my words exactly, almost. Precisely.

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#314 suolucidir

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 08:47 AM

It may be one of your least favourite posts, sure!
Listen, obviously you like the guy and that's fine. Cameo appearances due to the game or the roster circumstances do not make you a fixture or a role player. Nobody is discrediting how he came out the season before but the fact is, and you would agree, that he had a massive injury. And yes, we all watched the guy last season.



Dear Doctor,
Basically, you are going with the injury excuses and the ghost of the seasons past. All your sentences are in past tense.

My point is, he is no "asset" now and his recovery path to his questionable potential is doubtful enough to deny him an offer. Why sign Richard Park 2.0 if you don’t have to. Wouldn’t you rather see a prospect take his roster spot, let alone half his salary?

Our best scenario is to include him in a deal that otherwise would have cost us a fourth rounder. A fourth rounder saved, is a fourth rounder earned.

It's not the injury. It's lost training. And if Raymond can't earn his spot we move him. There's zero risk involved here so people should stop crying.
PSN: CloakOfSkill

Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists somewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.

It bugs me when people pull out the gold medal for an example... Luongo only had to outplay Brodeur.


#315 A Skylit Drive

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 08:02 PM

Ewww why
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#316 kawasaki bomber

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 12:12 PM

I can't believe Raymond is the best news to come out of Vancouver in the last few days!!! What ever happened to 'moving one of our goalies'?

#317 Gretzky's Mullet

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 12:32 PM

It may be one of your least favourite posts, sure!
Listen, obviously you like the guy and that's fine. Cameo appearances due to the game or the roster circumstances do not make you a fixture or a role player. Nobody is discrediting how he came out the season before but the fact is, and you would agree, that he had a massive injury. And yes, we all watched the guy last season.

I don't even particularly like him. I took issue with the fact that most of what you were saying is dead wrong. He is a good penalty killer and has a lot of value to the team when healthy. Last year he was not, and did not provide full value. Hence, a big paycut and a charge to recover previous form with a full offseason of training and preparation. I understand that you dislike him, but the facts (statistics and metrics) are not as you've presented them, period.

Edited by Gretzky's Mullet, 12 July 2012 - 12:32 PM.

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#318 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 12:36 PM

I don't even particularly like him. I took issue with the fact that most of what you were saying is dead wrong. He is a good penalty killer and has a lot of value to the team when healthy. Last year he was not, and did not provide full value. Hence, a big paycut and a charge to recover previous form with a full offseason of training and preparation. I understand that you dislike him, but the facts (statistics and metrics) are not as you've presented them, period.



You've spent too much time in the baseball thread, GM...

...facts have no place in a Raymond-bashing post.
Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#319 Gretzky's Mullet

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 04:30 PM

You've spent too much time in the baseball thread, GM...

...facts have no place in the Hockey Discussion forums.

As tired as it is to type this, "I fixed it for you there".

Edited by Gretzky's Mullet, 12 July 2012 - 04:30 PM.

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#320 D.Doughty

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 06:37 PM

Lock him up long term. 7 years!!!!! :emot-parrot:




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