Jump to content

Welcome to canucks.com Vancouver Canucks homepage

Photo
- - - - -

Defensive Depth Not Changing


  • Please log in to reply
44 replies to this topic

#1 DownUndaCanuck

DownUndaCanuck

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,873 posts
  • Joined: 28-July 07

Posted 11 July 2012 - 08:53 AM

So with Garrison moving into our top-4 with a long contract, our quality defencemen look set for a long time. Edler should sign an extension within the next season because we'll obviously want this guy for a while, which means our top-4 is solidified.

However, our bottom pairing is a bit more flexible and not as sturdy, and we've seen in the past these guys get bullied in the playoffs by the bigger forwards of Boston and Los Angeles, especially Ballard and Tanev.

My question is, who are we going to see on that bottom pairing and how often?

Last season we saw a rotation of Alberts, Ballard, Rome and Tanev each play around 40 games (Tanev only 25), so how will it pan out next season?

Personally I would like to see Ballard play all 82 games, expect around 60-70 with injuries and 17 minutes a game. Then I'd like Tanev to play 40, Joslin to play 20 and Alberts to play 20, but come playoffs I want these pairings and these minutes:

Edler - Garrison (22 minutes each)
Hamhuis - Bieksa (22 minutes each)
Ballard - Alberts (16 minutes each)
Tanev
Joslin

Sure an extra defenceman like Vandemeer, Kubina, Jurcina or Colaicovo would be a huge upgrade at that #6 spot but with 3 million in cap room left I think we're stuck with what we've got on defence.
  • 0
Posted Image

#2 Moonshinefe

Moonshinefe

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,781 posts
  • Joined: 15-March 11

Posted 11 July 2012 - 09:02 AM

I don't think Tanev & Ballard got bullied any more than our other players in the playoffs, so not sure why you're singling them out...

But yeah I'm sure we'll see Ballard/Tanev/Alberts in the bottom pairing barring injuries. I'd like to see them give Tanev a chance at being a regular, I think he'll be a top 4 D in a couple years and it'd be good to give him the experience to develop further at the NHL level.
  • 0

#3 Opmac

Opmac

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,519 posts
  • Joined: 09-December 07

Posted 11 July 2012 - 09:18 AM

I don't think Tanev & Ballard got bullied any more than our other players in the playoffs, so not sure why you're singling them out...

But yeah I'm sure we'll see Ballard/Tanev/Alberts in the bottom pairing barring injuries. I'd like to see them give Tanev a chance at being a regular, I think he'll be a top 4 D in a couple years and it'd be good to give him the experience to develop further at the NHL level.

Keith Ballard was the only one that stood up to the crap...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06psuTFVFD4

Edit: Nevermind. OP was referring to plays in the corners.

Edited by Opmac, 11 July 2012 - 09:22 AM.

  • 3

Posted Image


#4 It's Bieksa's Fault

It's Bieksa's Fault

    Comets Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 451 posts
  • Joined: 02-November 08

Posted 11 July 2012 - 09:19 AM

I want Tanev to play most of the season. The kid had maybe one or two really bad games last season, and he has a much higher ceiling than Alberts.
  • 1


#5 TOMapleLaughs

TOMapleLaughs

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 30,428 posts
  • Joined: 19-September 05

Posted 11 July 2012 - 09:41 AM

Of course our depth changed. Instead of Salo playing like he can break down at any second, we have an 11yr younger Garrison. Fairly underrated development there. We can actually use Garrison in all scenarios, while Salo came with significant risk. (He wasn't quite the same last season after the Marchand hit.)

Then what of Tanev? If he improves as much as he could, then he's top-4 calibre. AV sure seems impressed with him, so he'll likely get a long look at top-4 potential so we'll have our natural left-side defenders all on the left side.

And what of K-Con? Sauve? A lot of potential there. Joslin is around.

Our depth is fine. I like it better than where it was last season anyway.
  • 0
Posted Image

#6 Spoosh

Spoosh

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,149 posts
  • Joined: 10-August 05

Posted 11 July 2012 - 09:56 AM

I'd rather not have Alberts out there all that much. He has some moments here and there, but overall I think he can easily be replaced by the guys waiting for a chance; Tanev, Sauve, Connauton maybe even Joslin, dunno. Ballard needs to give all 110% and the needs to be given the fair minutes and correct role.
  • 0
© 2000, 2014 K'Spoosh Entertainment Ltd.

Misuse of this almost copyrighted information will with near certainty lead to misuse of it.


Posted Image

#7 Tortorella's Rant

Tortorella's Rant

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,830 posts
  • Joined: 11-April 12

Posted 11 July 2012 - 09:57 AM

Keith Ballard was the only one that stood up to the crap...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06psuTFVFD4

Edit: Nevermind. OP was referring to plays in the corners.


Pretty pathetic how Oreskovich is suppose to be our 'tough guy' and he's never even had a history of being an enforcer. He clearly showed it there. Further evidence the Canucks are guilty of slapping whoever on the fourth line and rolling with it.
  • 0
Posted Image

#8 John.Tallhouse

John.Tallhouse

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,527 posts
  • Joined: 24-May 12

Posted 11 July 2012 - 10:21 AM

Weber...
  • 2
Posted Image

#9 tjkaemingh

tjkaemingh

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 730 posts
  • Joined: 10-July 03

Posted 11 July 2012 - 10:28 AM

Our top 4 D were guilty of some pretty sloppy play and turnovers in this past playoffs. That style of play may need to change.
Tanev, Ballard, and Alberts are fine for the 5,6,7 spots this year so far.
Lets see how the first half of the season goes.

Yes, Joslin, Connauton and Sauve all deserve a 3 game cup of coffee too if need be throughout the year.

By Feb, MG and AV should know better if our top six can handle the playoff grind and intensity. If not, make a trade.
I like certain elements of Ballards and Alberts (physcial) game. I would not hesitate in a heart beat to trade them though to upgrade.

Tanev just needs some time. He is so cool and calm out there.
That is fine for a young #6 guy. You do not want him running around out of position or taking too many offensive gambles....

Depth is okay for now on D. Always look to upgrade though as I am sure MG does.....

Edited by tjkaemingh, 11 July 2012 - 10:28 AM.

  • 2

#10 Langdon Algur

Langdon Algur

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,004 posts
  • Joined: 05-July 07

Posted 11 July 2012 - 10:31 AM

I don't see Joslin playing at all expect as an innury sub, which we will surely need at sometime.
  • 0
"What is the good of having a nice house without a decent planet to put it on?" ~ Henry David Thoreau

#11 thad

thad

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,915 posts
  • Joined: 09-February 09

Posted 11 July 2012 - 10:40 AM

Personally, I like where we're sitting. If we would have resigned Salo and Rome we would look exactly the same. I think tanev Sauve and Kcon are ready to challenge for bigger roles and we have the room to let them do so. Sauve and kcon have earned the chance to step in as injury replacements and depth guys and tanev should be given a top 4 chance when one of them gets hurt.

I wouldn't count Joslin out either he was just cut from a team and probably took a serious summer to work his butt off and redefine himself. Getting solid advice from our player development could go a long way. He won't be an impact player but hopefully he can fill in on the bottom pairing responsibly when needed.

We can sign 6 bottom pairing dmen and sit them in the box or put them in Chicago so were going to have to rely on our prospects to be as ready as possible. The last couple years they were too young and that's why we signed so much depth. This year we got a couple guys ready to give it a shot so carrying 2 more dmen isn't necessary
  • 1

#12 Baggins

Baggins

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,706 posts
  • Joined: 30-July 03

Posted 11 July 2012 - 10:49 AM

I'd rather not have Alberts out there all that much. He has some moments here and there, but overall I think he can easily be replaced by the guys waiting for a chance; Tanev, Sauve, Connauton maybe even Joslin, dunno. Ballard needs to give all 110% and the needs to be given the fair minutes and correct role.


And what exactly is the correct role? Replacing Hamhuis or replacing Edler??? Which of those two are you going to take minutes away from?
  • 0
Posted Image

#13 needtogetswole

needtogetswole

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 645 posts
  • Joined: 02-April 07

Posted 11 July 2012 - 02:49 PM

And what exactly is the correct role? Replacing Hamhuis or replacing Edler??? Which of those two are you going to take minutes away from?


Bieksa.. once he gots over 21-22 - here come boneheaded plays.
  • 2

#14 bluesman60

bluesman60

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,200 posts
  • Joined: 18-September 09

Posted 11 July 2012 - 03:00 PM

Sooner or later the Canucks are going to have to make room for guys like Sauve and Connaughton.
I would like to see Sauve, Connaughton and Joslin get a 8-10 game stint each and get some experience in the NHL. Assuming that our top 4 are set with Edler/Garrison and Hamhuis/ Bieksa that means that Ballard and/or Tanev are going to have to sit some games to accomplish that.
The prospects are ready to become the defensive depth on this team. If we are not going to play them then we might as well trade them because sooner or later they are going to get frustrated and head for greener pastures.
When Luo is traded, hopefully we will get some NHL calibre scoring help up front and either some prospects or draft picks in the deal. Luo is a top notch goalie and I am dismayed at how little some on CDC are willing to trade him for. The guy should be worth three 1st rounders and a prospect or two 1st rounders and a couple of prospects or a scoring veteran plus a couple of really good prospects and a 2nd or 3rd round pick. You just don't have that much opportunity to aquire a goalie of Luongo's calibre so the asking price is understandably high.
The club will be defined by what the return is for Luongo and may be the start of a reshuffling throughout the lineup. So the defense and the forwards are not set until that trade takes place and I am sure that MG is looking at reshuffling so that he is ready for Burrows and Edler needing new contracts. I can't see how this can be accomodated gracefully without an injection of youth at a lower contract cost.
  • 1

#15 Hockey Fever

Hockey Fever

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,784 posts
  • Joined: 03-January 09

Posted 11 July 2012 - 03:30 PM

Similar Defensive depth to last year = Similar outcome in playoffs. :picard: :sadno:
  • 1

Posted Image

NHL Wikipedia : Operates Major Ice Hockey League known for predetermining Stanley Cup winners and rampant corrupt officiating

"I would love for (the Canucks) to win the Stanley Cup because that would put to bed all the talk about 1994", he says facetiously".
Nathan Lafayette on hitting the post in game seven of the Stanley Cup.


#16 Dogbyte

Dogbyte

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,773 posts
  • Joined: 31-March 07

Posted 11 July 2012 - 04:06 PM

Bieksa.. once he gots over 21-22 - here come boneheaded plays.

Bingo Bango Biekso! :)
  • 0
There are things known and unknown ... and in between are the doors.

#17 Phil_314

Phil_314

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,782 posts
  • Joined: 07-November 09

Posted 11 July 2012 - 04:10 PM

if Ballard's going to get buried and K-Con or Sauve is ready, then I'd rather move Keith to get more financial flexibility. Of course, if Keith is used properly (maybe QB for 2nd PP) then he would be a luxury but if not then he should be moved and given a Top 4 role elsewhere.

So far I see it as

Hamhuis - Bieksa
Edler - Garrison
*(Ballard) - Tanev

Alberts, Joslin (two big bodies for more physical games)

*could change with Kevin or Yann if they're up to speed and ability with the NHL game, or sign cheaper free agent (though not someone one-dimensional or easily injured please).
  • 0

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.


Jesus LOVES YOU!
2012, meet Matthew 24:36-47!

14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.


#18 DownUndaCanuck

DownUndaCanuck

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,873 posts
  • Joined: 28-July 07

Posted 11 July 2012 - 04:17 PM

We did just lose MAG to free agency, so I'm hoping MG can sign a #6 defenceman to fill in for him now. I do like the way our defence is becoming bigger and more of a physical, shutdown type though because that's clearly the way you win in the playoffs nowadays - just look at the successful defences of New York, Boston, LA and NJD. You don't win with small, agile puck movers on the back end because they simply can't handle the physical nature of the playoffs.

That being said, we have now lost Salo, Rome and Gragnani on the blueline, only to be replaced by Garrison and Joslin. 1 more body for depth would be nice (Muller hasn't played an NHL game yet so doesn't count).
  • 0
Posted Image

#19 Teen Icarus

Teen Icarus

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 968 posts
  • Joined: 06-November 09

Posted 11 July 2012 - 04:26 PM

Keith Ballard was the only one that stood up to the crap...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06psuTFVFD4

Edit: Nevermind. OP was referring to plays in the corners.


Augggg!!! Why'd you have to show that? Now I have to print off a picture of Marchand's face and pummel it for an hour! At least the Shannahammer will get him if he tries one of those plays again...
  • 0
Spoiler

#20 bossram

bossram

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,943 posts
  • Joined: 13-August 10

Posted 11 July 2012 - 05:24 PM

We actually have less depth than last year. Ballard, Tanev and Alberts are the only reliable bottom pair players. After that we have to dip into calling up guys like Joslin, Connauton, Sauve, etc.

I would say our top-four is much stronger with the addition of Garrison. We now have a solid, minute-eating top-four. However I think Gillis really should have just bit the bullet and signed Salo. Him and Ballard would be a great, complementary 3rd pair and give us truly strong blueline 1 through 6.

I don't mind Tanev starting with Ballard,, but in my mind if we want him to evolve into anything more than a bottom-pair player he's going to need to develop more in the minors. I think we should just sign one of the remaining free agent defensemen floating around like Kubina or Rozsival. They're both right-handed, big and physical and would complement Ballard's mobility. They should come a bit cheaper at this point considering no one has signed them yet and we're getting deeper into the offseason.

Hamhuis - Bieksa
Edler - Garrison
Ballard - Kubina/Rozsival
Alberts

Tanev

Tanev is the first call-up and we have a very deep lineup.

Edited by bossram, 11 July 2012 - 05:24 PM.

  • 0
What is the deal with Mike Gillis, it always seems like he's sweating...

#21 ButterBean

ButterBean

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,228 posts
  • Joined: 23-February 09

Posted 11 July 2012 - 05:54 PM

Hamhuis(23) - Bieksa(20)
Edler(23) - Garrison(23)
Ballard(17) - Alberts/Tanev(14)

is what I'd like to see for minutes.
  • 0

#22 oldnews

oldnews

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,151 posts
  • Joined: 30-March 11

Posted 11 July 2012 - 05:55 PM

The top four looks as good as it ever has, and in addition, Garrison can eat up big minutes.

Out Salo, Rome, Gragnani.
In Garrison,.------, Joslin.
The difference is Rome? IMO Tanev, Sauve etc are more than adequate replacements/upgrades as young developing players.

Ballard and Tanev are both top four quality defensemen - Ballard has had a few injuries and hickups since arriving, but the guy has a solid overall game - Tanev imo is a blueline version of Burrows and is at that point of his career where he is starting to emerge.

Alberts improved last year and is a very dependable 7th man - absolutely no concerns about his ability to step into the 6th spot.

Sauve showed very well when he was called up to the Canucks - he's a solid defensive blueliner who has good size, is only 22, and could surprise people.

Connauton led the WHL in defensive scoring in 2009/10 with 72 points - last year he made the AHL all-star team - he is also only 22 years old, but clearly has a lot of offensive upside and has been improving his defensive game.

Joslin is a gritty, hard working guy who is a viable depth option if necessary - would be a stretch to consider him a downgrade on Gragnani.

The Canucks are likely to acquire another young blueliner in a Luongo deal, but regardless, imo the depth of their blueline is not a concern - if it is, then every team in the NHL should be concerned.

Edited by oldnews, 11 July 2012 - 05:59 PM.

  • 2

#23 ABurrows14

ABurrows14

    Comets Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 418 posts
  • Joined: 25-May 12

Posted 11 July 2012 - 06:39 PM

I'd rather not have Alberts out there all that much. He has some moments here and there, but overall I think he can easily be replaced by the guys waiting for a chance; Tanev, Sauve, Connauton maybe even Joslin, dunno. Ballard needs to give all 110% and the needs to be given the fair minutes and correct role.


Have to be careful with that. Not a huge fan of Alberts but players continue to develop and he has alot of NHL experience relative to the others you mentioned. I think his size is important and so he should be played as the 7th man depending on the opponent. I agree, if Tanev continues on his course ( I love the guy, so calm with the puck make great outlet passes and never gets caught, I actually think he is are best defenseman in terms of the first pass out of the zone) he should get 50-60 games, with Alberts and the others gettting a shot here or there, and maybe sliding in on injuries.

The challenge the nucks now face is they have a very solid defence thats not overly old, and a couple/three young studs in the minors getting close to ready. While this is good, allowing dmen to develop in the minors, they do need to get some NHL time to further improve.

I don't think the nucks would want both Tanev and a Connaughton/Sauve/Corrado in the lineup unless its Sauve taking Alberts role (size/stay at home)..

So we shall see, but Alberts still should play a role as depth here..
  • 0

#24 smokes

smokes

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 568 posts
  • Joined: 31-January 03

Posted 11 July 2012 - 07:59 PM

If there is an injury to any of the top four...we are screwed
  • 0

#25 TheCammer

TheCammer

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,582 posts
  • Joined: 27-June 08

Posted 13 July 2012 - 11:37 AM

I think our depth is fine at this point. Once camp starts if Connauton or Sauve show they are not ready for the jump I could see us potentially add a more veteran presence into the 6/7/8 D-Man. At some point they have to give the prospects that chance to make the jump.
  • 0
Posted Image

#26 Nucks-4-Life

Nucks-4-Life

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,000 posts
  • Joined: 14-December 06

Posted 13 July 2012 - 12:31 PM

Anyone else slightly concerned that Garrison may end up in the AV's dog house like Ballard? I would hate to have a bottom pairing of Ballard - Garrison playing 12 minutes a game costing the team 9 million in cap space.

This is how I hope the pairings are formed:

Hamhuis - Bieksa
Edler - Garrison
Ballard - Tanev/Joslin

What needs work most is our Powerplay pairings. Having Hamhuis out there last year made me sick. He has no offensive upside. Both Edler and Garrison have big shots, let's split them up to maximize it.

I would love to see this:

Kassian - Sedin - Sedin
Edler - Bieksa

Burrows - Kesler - Booth
Ballard - Garrison
  • 0

#27 L'Orange

L'Orange

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,193 posts
  • Joined: 12-November 11

Posted 13 July 2012 - 12:42 PM

Alberts has size but doesn't seem to really deter opposing teams from roughing up our top players.

IMO, Alberts needs to become more of a beast. If he can, the Canucks will reap the benefits.
  • 0
Posted Image

#28 Drop Em

Drop Em

    Comets Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 275 posts
  • Joined: 24-February 09

Posted 16 July 2012 - 11:33 PM

Pretty pathetic how Oreskovich is suppose to be our 'tough guy' and he's never even had a history of being an enforcer. He clearly showed it there. Further evidence the Canucks are guilty of slapping whoever on the fourth line and rolling with it.


Agreed. And then they wonder why they get pushed around and cheap shotted. I'm not too sure that there's ever been a bigger waste of skin in a Canucks uniform than Oreskovich.....and by big I mean both literally and figureatively.
  • 0

#29 nucks all the way

nucks all the way

    Comets Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 297 posts
  • Joined: 26-March 11

Posted 16 July 2012 - 11:50 PM

I don't know why you're singling Ballard out as being bullied. If anything he's one of the players that dishes hits and fights. It's players like Sedins that get bullied (and regrettably not much retaliation from the rest of the team). I think Ballard is just fine in terms of grit and I'd like to see him play more because his rushes are fun to watch.
  • 0

#30 Bodee

Bodee

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,257 posts
  • Joined: 26-May 11

Posted 17 July 2012 - 01:21 AM

I don't think Tanev & Ballard got bullied any more than our other players in the playoffs, so not sure why you're singling them out...

But yeah I'm sure we'll see Ballard/Tanev/Alberts in the bottom pairing barring injuries. I'd like to see them give Tanev a chance at being a regular, I think he'll be a top 4 D in a couple years and it'd be good to give him the experience to develop further at the NHL level.


Agreed, Ballard and CT did well and didn't look bullied. However CT needs to put on more poundage imo. He is a bit on the light side at 6'-2" and 185 lbs. I would hope that is something he and MR are working on.
We could have had Mike Commodore for $1M but I think he has signed, could be wrong. He would have made a good 3rd line backup, he's only 32.
  • 0
Kevin.jpg




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Canucks.com is the official Web site of The Vancouver Canucks. The Vancouver Canucks and Canucks.com are trademarks of The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership.  NHL and the word mark and image of the Stanley Cup are registered trademarks and the NHL Shield and NHL Conference logos are trademarks of the National Hockey League. All NHL logos and marks and NHL team logos and marks as well as all other proprietary materials depicted herein are the property of the NHL and the respective NHL teams and may not be reproduced without the prior written consent of NHL Enterprises, L.P.  Copyright © 2009 The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership and the National Hockey League.  All Rights Reserved.