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Vancouver Canucks 30

?

1,830 posts in this topic

WHL rocks,

Tell me, do you think Mark Recchi was a major boon for Brad Marchand or not?

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I believe he was comparing the physicality of Doan and Iginla in which I would agree with Miller. Doan isn't known for fighting as much as Iginla but he sure as hell hits a lot more. Doan is much more of a two-way player a la Kesler- very tough to play against with tons of grits and some ability to put the puck in the net. However, Iginla is better offensively and being threat with the puck although not known for his two-way ability.

Iginla and Doan aren't the greatest examples for a comparison as they offer different talents and leadership qualities.

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19 to 24? Doan is going to be 36 in a couple of months.

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So you agree with Miller but then you go on to list how different the two players are? You listed differences from hitting to fighting to the style of play, offensive vs two way game.

Here's the kicker, you finished off by saying:

"Iginla and Doan aren't the greatest examples for a comparison as they offer different talents and leadership qualities"

Your whole post was in response to my following statement:

WHL rocks:

Now you bring up Iginla in comparison to Doan? Are you friking kidding me? Doan has never been close to Iginla in any part of the game. From fighting to scoring to leading. Doan is no Iginla, period.

So what you are really saying is you agree with me.

Typo perhaps.

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Those two were guaranteed Cups?

No guarantees in sports IMO.

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Tell me, was Recchi amongst the highest paid players in the NHL?

I don't know how many times I have to say this but I would love to have Doan at $ similar to all of these players you are listing.

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I don't think Miller is suggesting Doan is the reincarnation of Bob Probert. What you get with Doan is a +200 pound winger who consistantly punishes opposing teams with his physical play. If needed he steps up and defends himself or his linemates. Nothing negative about Burrows but he does not have the physical build to do the same job. Opposing teams respect opposition teams who are prepared to bang it out and show that they are prepared to do what it takes to win. Doan has done that very thing thru his career. As good as LA's Dustin Brown was in the PHX series I thought Doan matched off extremely well.

What Doan would do for Kassian is show him the professional side of the game. What it takes to play a physical game thru a season and how to stay focussed on what benefits the team.

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I'm technically agreeing with both of you. That being said, I think you both are arguing two different things. Millers arguing that Doan's physicality is just as good, if not better than Iginla's where you are arguing that Iginla's value overall (as his offensive totals have proven it even though last year was an off year for him) is greater than Doan.

That's why a cap hit of somewhere around 4.5M per year is fair value for Doan's skillset compare to Iginla who's value who is upwards of 7M.

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Ummm... Here's what you said:

I've provided proof otherwise. Was Recchi the same prolific scorer at ages 40-42 that he was at 19-24? No. Did he pass on wisdom for a similarly built Marchand that helped his game? In my opinion, absolutely yes. Is Doan as good of a fighter as he was in '95-'00 or even '05-'06? No, but can he pass on some valuable tips for Kassian on how to play on the edge and when to take a run at a key player? In my opinion, absolutely yes.

Wow, how did you come to that conclusion? All I did was show you that Doan indeed has dropped the gloves on many occasions. You said he was never known as a fighter, never, ever. I even stated "is that to say Doan is as good of or as frequent of a fighter as Iginla is? NO" but then you twist it into something entirely different:

"Now you bring up Iginla['s scoring & leading in comparison to Doan]?" Ummm, no. I did no such thing. Context please?

Now I see what is going on here. You must not be understanding what my view is. You think I'm calling for your idea of "protection for the stars". What I'm actually calling for is a proven top-six powerforward capable of 20g 30a 50pts, that hits hard and often, can drop the gloves when a rat's cheapshot occurs and not embarrass the team in the process. There, it's in bold letters. That is what I'm calling for. It's not the "whole reason" as you are exaggerating yet again here either (what is going on with you, why are you twisting things?).

Other ignored reasons I'm advocating for Doan at a reasonable price: Doan's experience of playing in the NHL when he wasn't really ready and his ability to overcome that to turn into a 50-70pt two-way power winger is something extremely valuable to surround all our young players with but definitely Kassian in particular. Off ice demeanor, charitable work in the community, on ice leadership, off ice leadership, reputation around the league, record of durability, tendency to elevate his game in important games, strength and conditioning, another great example of work ethic for all of our players to be around etc, etc.

Doan would be signing for ages 36, 37, 38 & 39 not ages 39, 40, & 41. Meaning that Doan's contract after this one would be the $4.5m per year contract, not this currently negotiated contract. That's actually not proving your point, it's proving mine in that Doan might actually have two to three more years of quality hockey left after this contract.

Would you be willing to offer Doan a 3-year deal at 6.41% of the cap in three years from now? Is that proving your point or mine?

I don't see where we disagree except that you're talking about a 39 year old Roberts vs a 36 year old Doan which is unfair considering the cap has indexed at a 7.9% annual rate from '05-'06 till now meaning Robert's $4.25m salary at age 37 would have been $5.735m in today's market and his $2.5m salary at age 36 would have been $4.27m (I didn't include the lockout year index).

Gillis won't be signing him if it comes at the cost of a higher cap hit than the twins, imo, since he's shown the propensity to get guys like Hamhuis & Garrison at $500k-$1m less than they could get elsewhere. In the case of Hamhuis, there was a report that the Islanders offered him > or = to $6m and there was a report of $6.5m (ridiculous money) for Garrison. I don't think Doan will get a penny more than $6m here and if he actually did choose Vancouver he would probably come in between Kesler's $5m and the twins' $6.1m anyway ($5m-$5.5m in all likelihood).

I'm certainly not advocating for Gillis to offer a 4-year/$30m deal to Doan and if Doan ends up signing for that I'm glad it won't be here, that's for sure.

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I know the majority of you guys don't wanna sign Doan to that 4 year, $30 million contract. So I came up with a revisal: Sign him to that contract, but have it look like this:

1st year: $1 million cap hit & a $10 million signing bonus

2nd year: $1 million cap hit & a $10 million signing bonus

3rd year: $1 million cap hit & a $5 million signing bonus

4th year: $1 million cap hit & a $5 million signing bonus

How does that sound?

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I know the majority of you guys don't wanna sign Doan to that 4 year, $30 million contract. So I came up with a revisal: Sign him to that contract, but have it look like this:

1st year: $1 million cap hit & a $10 million signing bonus

2nd year: $1 million cap hit & a $10 million signing bonus

3rd year: $1 million cap hit & a $5 million signing bonus

4th year: $1 million cap hit & a $5 million signing bonus

How does that sound?

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I know the majority of you guys don't wanna sign Doan to that 4 year, $30 million contract. So I came up with a revisal: Sign him to that contract, but have it look like this:

1st year: $1 million cap hit & a $10 million signing bonus

2nd year: $1 million cap hit & a $10 million signing bonus

3rd year: $1 million cap hit & a $5 million signing bonus

4th year: $1 million cap hit & a $5 million signing bonus

How does that sound?

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I'm confident that Shane Doan will be the newest addition to Sydney Crosby's line if he isn't a Coyote. He gets a lot of positives playing in Pittsburg, not the least of which is playing with the best player in the game.

MG should go ahead and sign Arnott and hope for a good return on Luongo.

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I know the majority of you guys don't wanna sign Doan to that 4 year, $30 million contract. So I came up with a revisal: Sign him to that contract, but have it look like this:

1st year: $1 million cap hit & a $10 million signing bonus

2nd year: $1 million cap hit & a $10 million signing bonus

3rd year: $1 million cap hit & a $5 million signing bonus

4th year: $1 million cap hit & a $5 million signing bonus

How does that sound?

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I know the majority of you guys don't wanna sign Doan to that 4 year, $30 million contract. So I came up with a revisal: Sign him to that contract, but have it look like this:

1st year: $1 million cap hit & a $10 million signing bonus

2nd year: $1 million cap hit & a $10 million signing bonus

3rd year: $1 million cap hit & a $5 million signing bonus

4th year: $1 million cap hit & a $5 million signing bonus

How does that sound?

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Actually if you followed mine and Miller's conversation for the past few days its all based on me saying Doan is not worth $6+ mill for 4 years and Miller disagreeing with me.

Miller's main point has been that "rats" from other teams will no longer push around the twins because Doan will protect the stars.

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Actually if you followed mine and Miller's conversation for the past few days its all based on me saying Doan is not worth $6+ mill for 4 years and Miller disagreeing with me.

Miller's main point has been that "rats" from other teams will no longer push around the twins because Doan will protect the stars.

I contend Doan is no protector/fighter.

I agree with you on some of what Doan brings. I don't agree with the Doan stepping up to protect team mates part. He doesn't do that. Plain and simple. Most ppl who watch enough out of market games know Doan is not that type of player.

Doan has fought 4 times in the past 3 years. Thats pretty much a fight a year. Hardly a protector of team-mates when you consider there are 82 games in a year + playoffs.

Does Doan bring his physical style of play when he's the age of 38 or 39 years of age and when his cap hit is $6+plus mill? I don't think so. And this is my main point.

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I know the majority of you guys don't wanna sign Doan to that 4 year, $30 million contract. So I came up with a revisal: Sign him to that contract, but have it look like this:

1st year: $1 million cap hit & a $10 million signing bonus

2nd year: $1 million cap hit & a $10 million signing bonus

3rd year: $1 million cap hit & a $5 million signing bonus

4th year: $1 million cap hit & a $5 million signing bonus

How does that sound?

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What's the disagreement then. Why the disagreement over the past several days. Your very last sentence is what my original point was several days ago when you responded to it and our conversation began.

So you agree with my original and main point that Doan is not worth 4 years $30 million.

End of discussion.

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