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#691 Everybody Hates Raymond

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:32 PM

Booth - H Sedin - Doan
D Sedin - Kesler - Kassian

Wazooooo playmakers for all! That is one seriously massive top 6 with major skill, besides the sedins all are 6'1+ 200lb+, lets see people push around the sedins with these guys

I'd prefer not to split the Sedins up as they play their best together
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#692 darnucks

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:36 PM

Booth - H Sedin - Doan
D Sedin - Kesler - Kassian

Wazooooo playmakers for all! That is one seriously massive top 6 with major skill, besides the sedins all are 6'1+ 200lb+, lets see people push around the sedins with these guys

That's the wierdest line ups I've seen yet. Sedins split up, Burrows nowhere to be found, Kassian on the 2nd line. What have you been smoking?
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#693 Blood Fiend

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:39 PM

That's the wierdest line ups I've seen yet. Sedins split up, Burrows nowhere to be found, Kassian on the 2nd line. What have you been smoking?


Dude, i don't think he smoked anything, some people are just naturally dreamers.

sedin, sedin, burrows
booth, kesler, doan
higgins, malholtra, hansen
______, lapierre, kassian
______ _______
ebbet, volpatti, weise.

or switch burrows and doan up.
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#694 Boudrias

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:51 PM

I'm not seeing a ton of chatter about Doan and the Rangers though........just your opinion? Personally, if I were a small town Western guy, moving my family to the hustle and bustle of NYC wouldn't really appeal to me........not to mention across the continent from family and friends......

though I will say playing for an Eastern team gives him a lot more time at home.........however, he'd still be gone a lot and he'd be isolating his wife and kids from friends and family on the other side of the continent

I am more concerned about Doan going to Pitt than the NYR. A chance to play with Crosby has to be tempting. It might work with the Rangers for a year but then Sather has to keep all that talent happy and paid. Could become unstable.

IMO the Gilman-Doan relationship is strong enough that the Canucks will know exactly what it will take to sign him. Veery significant that ownership was at the dinner last night. Ownership told Doan about their committemnt to winning the CUP, Gillis talked about the professionalism of the Canucks and ensuring the opportunity to succeed is there and Gilman was the numbers man who talked about the Canuck pay structure and how they could fit him in.

There will be no annoucement until Doan can talk to the Yotes to give them the bad news.
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#695 RonnieColeman

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 01:01 PM

Dude, i don't think he smoked anything, some people are just naturally dreamers.

sedin, sedin, burrows
booth, kesler, doan
higgins, malholtra, hansen
______, lapierre, kassian
______ _______
ebbet, volpatti, weise.

or switch burrows and doan up.


You guys are ridiculous, kassian is gonna have a much bigger role than just 4th line duties, Gillis has mentioned this recently, he's a young kid with size and skill. You are all the same people whining about kesler not being able to playmake, well this is the only option we have to put a playmaker on that line, and who are you to say the Sedins can't be split? Henrik racked up a ridiculous amount of points when Daniel went down and went on to be MVP. Furthermore, booth and kesler have not shown any chemistry and are too alike in playing styles (shoot first) and neither guy is suited for a bottom 6 role. Just because these lines don't align with your own status quo thinking, doesn't mean they're any less better than the stuff you come up with, like really? Booth kesler Doan? Who exactly is going to pass the puck on that line? Although sedins and burrows is proven, it wouldn't HURT to just try out kassian in the top 6 to see what we have or split the sedins to give the second line some playmaking. The lines you guys throw up look good on paper cause they're all great top 6 players, but analyze playing styles and take a deeper look at things and you'll see that booth kesler Doan may not be the best options together. Thinking differently and outside the box isn't a bad thing once in a while, probably smoking much less than you guys lol
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#696 aliboy

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 01:38 PM

Kassian will have to work his way off the 4th line.
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#697 RonnieColeman

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 01:41 PM

Kassian will have to work his way off the 4th line.


What MG says > what you say
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#698 Millerdraft

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 01:42 PM

You guys are ridiculous, kassian is gonna have a much bigger role than just 4th line duties, Gillis has mentioned this recently, he's a young kid with size and skill. You are all the same people whining about kesler not being able to playmake, well this is the only option we have to put a playmaker on that line, and who are you to say the Sedins can't be split? Henrik racked up a ridiculous amount of points when Daniel went down and went on to be MVP. Furthermore, booth and kesler have not shown any chemistry and are too alike in playing styles (shoot first) and neither guy is suited for a bottom 6 role. Just because these lines don't align with your own status quo thinking, doesn't mean they're any less better than the stuff you come up with, like really? Booth kesler Doan? Who exactly is going to pass the puck on that line? Although sedins and burrows is proven, it wouldn't HURT to just try out kassian in the top 6 to see what we have or split the sedins to give the second line some playmaking. The lines you guys throw up look good on paper cause they're all great top 6 players, but analyze playing styles and take a deeper look at things and you'll see that booth kesler Doan may not be the best options together. Thinking differently and outside the box isn't a bad thing once in a while, probably smoking much less than you guys lol


You are aware that Doan has 197 assists in his last 393 games played (good for 41 assists per 82 games), right? How many assists did Kesler have in '09-'10 when he wasn't even on the #1 PP unit with the twins, 50 was it? He has 142 assists in his last 323 games played (good for 36a per 82 games played).

That 30-40 assists per player average is technically top end 2nd line assist production, borderline 1st line production, in this league:

http://www.nhl.com/i...rt=assists&pg=3

The #61 through #90 forwards ranked by assists averaged 31.1 assists in 73.7 games played and 90 forwards is basically the cut off for 1st liners (3 forwards on a line multiplied by 30 teams).

Here are the #61 through #90 forwards, ranked by assists, for the previous four years:

'10-'11: http://www.nhl.com/i...rt=assists&pg=3
'09-'10: http://www.nhl.com/i...rt=assists&pg=3
'08-'09: http://www.nhl.com/i...rt=assists&pg=3
'07-'08: http://www.nhl.com/i...rt=assists&pg=3

Kesler was #60 in '10-'11, #12 in '09-'10, and #69 in '08-'09. Doan was #31 in '10-'11, #50 in '09-'10, #32 in '08-'09 and #16 in '07-'08. These guys can pass when playing with good players. Both Doan and Kesler just barely missed being top 90 in assists this last year but going 7 for 10 is pretty frickin' good for two guys you don't seem to think know how to pass...
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Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#699 CanucksWino

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 01:42 PM

Kassian will have to work his way off the 4th line.


On a side note, this thinking is fast becoming one of my biggest pet peeves on Canucks.com. The Canucks won't stunt Kassian's development by keeping him on the team to play limited minutes on the 4th line. Either he'll be top-9 on the Canucks, or they'll send him to the minors to play top-line minutes in Chicago. Can we just make a rule that no one is allowed to have Kassian on the Canucks' 4th line. It's not happening people...
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#700 Pears

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 01:45 PM

That's the wierdest line ups I've seen yet. Sedins split up, Burrows nowhere to be found, Kassian on the 2nd line. What have you been smoking?

Burrows would obviously be on the third line

Booth - Sedin - Doan
Sedin - Kesler - Kassian
Higgins - Malhotra - Burrows
Pinizzotto - Lapierre - Hansen

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#701 stapledtothebandwagon

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 01:50 PM

I just think that as he already spends alot of offseason time in BC a chance at living it up with the family in NYC could be something the Doans would consider, given that it would only be for a few years. The Doans don't need to be sold on BC as they all know what it's like, and yes a great place to live; however so is NYC and if for only a few years, why not go for the experience of a lifetime that they otherwise would probably never consider or have an opportunity at. BC & PHX ranch in the offseason and for holidays, but for work and school, NYC. Best of both worlds is it not? For a Canuck fan probably not what someone wants to hear though.


Question for you, do you have a family? As a father, I don't want to move my kids at all. I want to provide stability for them, much the way Doan does, hence his giving phx every opportunity in the world to prove themselves as a stable franchise. I highly doubt he's looking to "live it up" in one of the best cities in the world (u realize van is in that exact same category). What I suspect he's looking for is somewhere his family can set root and stay, where the team will pay him handsomely and happen to b a contender.

That place may very well b new York but not for the reasons you've described.


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#702 RonnieColeman

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 02:07 PM

You are aware that Doan has 197 assists in his last 393 games played (good for 41 assists per 82 games), right? How many assists did Kesler have in '09-'10 when he wasn't even on the #1 PP unit with the twins, 50 was it? He has 142 assists in his last 323 games played (good for 36a per 82 games played).

That 30-40 assists per player average is technically top end 2nd line assist production, borderline 1st line production, in this league:

http://www.nhl.com/i...rt=assists&pg=3

The #61 through #90 forwards ranked by assists averaged 31.1 assists in 73.7 games played and 90 forwards is basically the cut off for 1st liners (3 forwards on a line multiplied by 30 teams).

Here are the #61 through #90 forwards, ranked by assists, for the previous four years:

'10-'11: http://www.nhl.com/i...rt=assists&pg=3
'09-'10: http://www.nhl.com/i...rt=assists&pg=3
'08-'09: http://www.nhl.com/i...rt=assists&pg=3
'07-'08: http://www.nhl.com/i...rt=assists&pg=3

Kesler was #60 in '10-'11, #12 in '09-'10, and #69 in '08-'09. Doan was #31 in '10-'11, #50 in '09-'10, #32 in '08-'09 and #16 in '07-'08. These guys can pass when playing with good players. Both Doan and Kesler just barely missed being top 90 in assists this last year but going 7 for 10 is pretty frickin' good for two guys you don't seem to think know how to pass...


You allude to seasons from many years ago, and hundreds of games that date back MANY seasons to create your argument, the only reason your averages of assists per year are that high is because you go back so far, if you want to use this logic, cheechoo's average goal production dating back to his 50 goal season would look GREAT compared to what he actually is, you use terrible logic. It's not HARD to see that kesler is NOT a pass first center, Doan is NOT known as a playmaker, and Booth is a shoot first winger, it really only takes ONE RECENT game of watching these players to realize this. Whereas some of the guys may have had greater assist number in the past, it's not the players they were last season, which is the most recent indicator of what we can expect this season (28 assists Doan, 27 assists kesler, and 13 for booth). You fail to prove your point that these guys can CURRENTLY playmake if they were on a line with each other, and you don't have anything to say about the other dozen points I was trying to make?

I would love Doan here but he either belongs with the Sedins, or in another jumbled up version of top 6, not with kesler and booth. Hence why I tried to think outside the box and throw Danny on the second line as a playmaker to act as a catalyst.

Edited by RonnieColeman, 01 August 2012 - 02:14 PM.

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#703 Millerdraft

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 02:11 PM

It's kinda funny, after we lose the Cup to the Bruins in 7 games people were screaming for Gillis to get a powerforward to play with Kesler and help him out but now that Gillis traded for Booth people think the problem with Kesler is the lack of a playmaker on the line.

In reality, Booth is just supposed to be a grittier version of Mason Raymond for us (ie, offensive upgrade) not the powerforward everyone was clamoring for after June 2011. Kesler is not an easy player to play with and he's not the type that sneaks himself into soft spots in a defense's coverage so I think a legit playmaker like Tanguay would only be frustrated with Kesler's style of play. Kesler's a guy that would benefit most from players that can create space out there for the extra room to skate. I think a Higgins-Kesler-Doan line would free up a ton of space for Kesler and that's when he's most effective, imo.
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Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#704 canuck028

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 02:12 PM

was just curious as to whether or not there are any reports out there, but are the canucks wanting the luongo deal to go down first to see the return, than go after doan, or vice versa?

opinions/thoughts?
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#705 canuck028

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 02:13 PM

was just curious as to whether or not there are any reports out there, but are the canucks wanting the luongo deal to go down first to see the return, than go after doan, or vice versa?

opinions/thoughts?
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#706 Millerdraft

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 02:17 PM

You allude to seasons from many years ago, and hundreds of games that date back MANY seasons to create your argument, the only reason your averages of assists per year are that high is because you go back so far, if you want to use this logic, cheechoo's average goal production dating back to his 50 goal season would look GREAT compared to what he actually is, you use terrible logic. It's not HARD to see that kesler is NOT a pass first center, Doan is NOT known as a playmaker, and Booth is a shoot first winger, it really only takes ONE RECENT game of watching these players to realize this. Whereas some of the guys may have had greater assist number in the past, it's not the players they were last season, which is the most recent indicator of what we can expect this season. You fail to prove your point that these guys can CURRENTLY playmake if they were on a line with each other, and you don't have anything to say about the other dozen points I was trying to make?

I would love Doan here but he either belongs with the Sedins, or in another jumbled up version of top 6, not with kesler and booth.


Kesler has had 59 assists in the last two seasons, and Doan has had 68 assists in the last two seasons. That's still 30a per year and just this past season Doan was #93 & Kesler was #104 in assists (#91-#120 is the 1st tier of 2nd liners). I'm not stating Doans mid-20s stats or anything.

Edit:

You don't have anything to say about the other dozen points I was trying to make?


No, I thought that was obvious when I chose to highlight the portion of your post I was addressing.

Edited by Millerdraft, 01 August 2012 - 02:21 PM.

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Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#707 Biasbieksa

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 02:18 PM

I think if we do see Doan sign here. Gillis will take the best offer that hes had so far for Luongo. This being done prior to Doan
being signed.

Edited by Biasbieksa, 01 August 2012 - 02:36 PM.

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#708 Kass9

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 02:19 PM

What some of you don't understand is that Doan brings the intangibles to the game.. Also, his point production is not bad.
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#709 Bilbro Baggins

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 02:25 PM

I think if we do see Doan sign here. Luongo will take the best offer that hes had so far for Luongo. This being done prior to Doan
being signed.


what?
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#710 RonnieColeman

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 02:28 PM

Kesler has had 59 assists in the last two seasons, and Doan has had 68 assists in the last two seasons. That's still 30a per year and just this past season Doan was #93 & Kesler was #104 in assists (#91-#120 is the 1st tier of 2nd liners). I'm not stating Doans mid-20s stats or anything.

Edit:

No, I thought that was obvious when I chose to highlight the portion of your post I was addressing.


Again, using your logic, which alludes to two seasons ago now, your logic would display that their assists are declining, which would mean what for next year? no matter how you want to dice it, it's flawed. You keep mentioning these 90-120 in the league stats but how impressive are those really? #90?! Id like to match these assist totals for the second line to the Stanley cup champs and see how they stack up, cause at the end of the day, all that matters is winning that cup. I hardly think 28, 27, and 13 assists from these players last year would add to a Stanley cup winning second line. Why are you so against diversifying and trying something new? I really don't think a D Sedin - Kesler - Doan line would be bad.
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#711 Systemaddict

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 02:34 PM

You guys are ridiculous, kassian is gonna have a much bigger role than just 4th line duties, Gillis has mentioned this recently, he's a young kid with size and skill. You are all the same people whining about kesler not being able to playmake, well this is the only option we have to put a playmaker on that line, and who are you to say the Sedins can't be split? Henrik racked up a ridiculous amount of points when Daniel went down and went on to be MVP. Furthermore, booth and kesler have not shown any chemistry and are too alike in playing styles (shoot first) and neither guy is suited for a bottom 6 role. Just because these lines don't align with your own status quo thinking, doesn't mean they're any less better than the stuff you come up with, like really? Booth kesler Doan? Who exactly is going to pass the puck on that line? Although sedins and burrows is proven, it wouldn't HURT to just try out kassian in the top 6 to see what we have or split the sedins to give the second line some playmaking. The lines you guys throw up look good on paper cause they're all great top 6 players, but analyze playing styles and take a deeper look at things and you'll see that booth kesler Doan may not be the best options together. Thinking differently and outside the box isn't a bad thing once in a while, probably smoking much less than you guys lol


You're not totally wrong, not at all. But this is still a team coached by AV - who has shown time and again that he makes young players earn their time and place in the lineup. Gillis is also on record for saying that have a plan to foster young talent and put them in situations that they have the best chance to succeed at without daunting pressure. A top 2 line spot for Kassian betrays both of these philosophies out of the gate.

Kassian will assuredly get minutes on both top lines throughout the season, but it'll be spotted in. Couple shifts on the PP, some time when a game is going terribly and the lines need a shakeup. The starting lineup for the season will most likely not have him on there unless he proves he deserves to be in the preseason.
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#712 Millerdraft

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 02:49 PM

Again, using your logic, which alludes to two seasons ago now, your logic would display that their assists are declining, which would mean what for next year? no matter how you want to dice it, it's flawed. You keep mentioning these 90-120 in the league stats but how impressive are those really? #90?! Id like to match these assist totals for the second line to the Stanley cup champs and see how they stack up, cause at the end of the day, all that matters is winning that cup. I hardly think 28, 27, and 13 assists from these players last year would add to a Stanley cup winning second line. Why are you so against diversifying and trying something new? I really don't think a D Sedin - Kesler - Doan line would be bad.


Kesler is declining? He's just now entering his prime and had a rough year injury wise. Doan has had Ray Whitney and who else to play with?

As per your request in bold:
http://www.nhl.com/i...iewName=assists

Kesler's 27a in an off year (he averages 30a) was equal to Richards' assist totals. Shane Doan had almost as good of stats as Dustin Brown, who's a 1st liner in LA and some would go as far as saying that he's mooching points off of Kopitar.

However, since I've been talking about the last two to five years, here are Boston's assist #s from '10-'11:
http://www.nhl.com/i...iewName=assists

Kesler & Doan would be right in there as 1st line assist guys.

'09-'10 Blackhawks:
http://www.nhl.com/i...iewName=assists

Kesler's 50a were good for #2 on the 'Hawks. Doan's 37a would've been #4.

'08-'09 Penguins:
http://www.nhl.com/i...iewName=assists

Kesler's 33a would've been #3 on the Pens, ditto for Doan's 42a.

'07-'08 Red Wings:
http://www.nhl.com/i...iewName=assists

Doan's 50a was 1a more than Zetterberg's 49a and Kesler hadn't broken out yet.
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Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#713 RonnieColeman

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 02:58 PM

Kesler is declining? He's just now entering his prime and had a rough year injury wise. Doan has had Ray Whitney and who else to play with?

As per your request in bold:
http://www.nhl.com/i...iewName=assists

Kesler's 27a in an off year (he averages 30a) was equal to Richards' assist totals. Shane Doan had almost as good of stats as Dustin Brown, who's a 1st liner in LA and some would go as far as saying that he's mooching points off of Kopitar.

However, since I've been talking about the last two to five years, here are Boston's assist #s from '10-'11:
http://www.nhl.com/i...iewName=assists

Kesler & Doan would be right in there as 1st line assist guys.

'09-'10 Blackhawks:
http://www.nhl.com/i...iewName=assists

Kesler's 50a were good for #2 on the 'Hawks. Doan's 37a would've been #4.

'08-'09 Penguins:
http://www.nhl.com/i...iewName=assists

Kesler's 33a would've been #3 on the Pens, ditto for Doan's 42a.

'07-'08 Red Wings:
http://www.nhl.com/i...iewName=assists

Doan's 50a was 1a more than Zetterberg's 49a and Kesler hadn't broken out yet.


Lol you clearly have too much time on your hands, how do these numbers change in the playoffs? Cause our second line definitely has not shown up in the playoffs, and barely our first. Again, what's your beef with D Sedin - Kesler - Doan, our scoring needs SOMETHING changed for the playoffs

Kudos to you though for looking up tons of stats and websites to prove something to a random guy on the Internet lol

PS - no matter what stats you skew to display your point, you are probably the only person who can't see that kesler's style of play is shoot first instead of playmaking, and that stats don't show everything.

Edited by RonnieColeman, 01 August 2012 - 03:07 PM.

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#714 16mark

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 03:05 PM

I just got a huge doaner!


He'd be a great Fit.
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#715 WHL rocks

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 03:05 PM

Mobile
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#716 Biasbieksa

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 03:07 PM

RonnieColeman. One of those typical internet losers with muscles. He was just trying to have a discussion. Go somewhere else you loser
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#717 WHL rocks

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 03:12 PM

Lol you clearly have too much time on your hands, how do these numbers change in the playoffs? Cause our second line definitely has not shown up in the playoffs, and barely our first. Again, what's your beef with D Sedin - Kesler - Doan, our scoring needs SOMETHING changed for the playoffs

Kudos to you though for looking up tons of stats and websites to prove something to a random guy on the Internet lol

PS - no matter what stats you skew to display your point, you are probably the only person who can't see that kesler's style of play is shoot first instead of playmaking, and that stats don't show everything.


You don't know Miller too well do you ?

Don't start a discussion with him unless you are willing to back up your claims.

Miller is a huge plus for on CDC and you just made your self look dumb with your last post.
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#718 Millerdraft

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 03:14 PM

Lol you clearly have too much time on your hands, how do these numbers change in the playoffs? Cause our second line definitely has not shown up in the playoffs, and barely our first. Again, what's your beef with D Sedin - Kesler - Doan, our scoring needs SOMETHING changed for the playoffs


The problem in the playoffs over the last few years has been the fact that teams can focus entirely on shutting the Sedins down because Kesler has no help on his line so it's an easy matchup for a coach. I don't think splitting up the Sedin chemistry since, basically, birth is the right recipe unless something like this were to occur:

The Sedins are facing the oppositions' #3-#4 defencemen and #2 defensive forward unit and still struggling to create scoring chances.

The only way that is going to occur is if Kesler gets some legitimate help on his wing that can get that line going to the point where it creates the Nashville '11 series effect and Trotz had to stick Suter-Weber on Kesler. At that point if the 2012-2013 Suter-Weber equivalent gets tasked with shutting down _____-Kesler-Doan and the entire top-six offence is still sputtering, then you go to the drastic measure of splitting the twins up. Of course, if you want to experiment with splitting up the twins you'd best be trying it in less meaningful regular season games but there's a catch-22 there:

What if you burn games at the beginning of the year experimenting and end up missing the playoffs by a few points? What if you wait until the playoff spot/positioning is sewn up late in the season and then destroy any late season momentum you've been building?
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Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#719 16mark

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 03:20 PM

My best friends sisters boyfriends, brothers girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with a girl who saw Doan pass out at 31 flavors last night! Sounds pretty serious.
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#720 Millerdraft

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 03:22 PM

Kudos to you though for looking up tons of stats and websites to prove something to a random guy on the Internet lol

PS - no matter what stats you skew to display your point, you are probably the only person who can't see that kesler's style of play is shoot first instead of playmaking, and that stats don't show everything.


There is absolutely no question that Kesler is a shoot first player but does that automatically mean he doesn't know how to pass?

Henrik Zetterberg is top-10 in the league for shots on net year after year. Does that mean he is a shoot first player that can't pass?
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Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.






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