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#931 WiDeN

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 04:14 PM

You did not make that word up, I recall Don Taylor calling Gilman that roughly 2 years ago :lol:

That's been a common name for his job description since he was hired.

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#932 Hodgson!!

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 04:32 PM

Hockeyinsiderr claims that the Penguins have offered doan a 4 year 24 Million dollar contract....

Edited by Hodgson!!, 03 August 2012 - 04:32 PM.

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#933 diesel_3

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 04:33 PM

Hockeyinsiderr claims that the Penguins have offered doan a 4 year 24 Million dollar contract....


Ya, if that's true and the way it's from loaded like that...Doan would have a really hard time saying no to that.
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#934 Pears

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 04:33 PM

Hockeyinsiderr claims that the Penguins have offered doan a 4 year 24 Million dollar contract....

$10 mill the first year??? BS

In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

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#935 Hodgson!!

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 04:34 PM

$10 mill the first year??? BS


Exactly what i thought.
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#936 El_Capitan

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 04:42 PM

Hockeyinsiderr claims that the Penguins have offered doan a 4 year 24 Million dollar contract....


Well hokeyinsider isn't a valid source, so his claim means jack crap.

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#937 mclean_is_#1

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 04:42 PM

Hockeyinsiderr claims that the Penguins have offered doan a 4 year 24 Million dollar contract....

Front loading the contract like that makes no sense for a player like Doan. That tactic is used to lower a cap hit for long contracts to players under 35 years of age. If he retires before the end of this contract, the hit is still on the books. Might as well pay him 6 mill through and through. Just seems odd to me...unless it's considered a signing bonus.
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#938 cool story bro

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 04:46 PM

I think the Canucks would match 4 years at 6m each, but would probably try to go a little lower than that if they could.

I think 4 years at 5m or 4 at 4.5m is reasonable and fair, but I don't see him signing anywhere below 5m.
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#939 oldnews

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 05:05 PM

<p><p>

Sedins signed that contract before they really broke out. People were still questioning if they were true 1st liners. You can't get a truly elite player for 6.1 or less.

That said, 36-year-old-and-up Doan is not going to be "truly elite", so I wouldn't pay him that anyways.


Keep hearing this myth repeated about the Sedins. They signed that contract after combining for 625 points the previous four seasons - that's a point a game for four straight seasons - if people were still questioning whether they were first liners, those people were kind of dense. If that wasn't enough to qualify them...

To doubt whether Doan is, or will be an "elite player" is similar.

#940 Jester13

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 05:07 PM

Doan two years at 6.5mil per, book it! You heard it here first people.

Note: pure lol thought here, I didn't hear it anywhere, my source is my tired of hearing about this kind of thing thinking in my head :frantic:

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#941 firestorm238

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 05:13 PM

Front loading the contract like that makes no sense for a player like Doan. That tactic is used to lower a cap hit for long contracts to players under 35 years of age. If he retires before the end of this contract, the hit is still on the books. Might as well pay him 6 mill through and through. Just seems odd to me...unless it's considered a signing bonus.


The player benefits from this arrangement too. The interest on $10 million over one year, is significantly greater than the interest on $6 million over one year. If we're talking about a four year contract that initial 1 year payment is making interest for the player over the entire four years. If it's well invested the returns (along with those subsequent years) could yield a couple extra million per contract.

#942 WiDeN

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 05:49 PM

Did Gilman not say that he spoke a lot about wanting to win a cup, and that is what he is looking for, not money?

I guess he still has a great chance at a cup with Pittsburgh, but I Doan't see this report being very factual.

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#943 ccc44

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 05:50 PM

Without Doan signed how does Gillis make an intelligent decision on what he brings back from a Lou trade? Other GMs are faced with competition for Lou's services. Does that really change if Doan is signed? It appears that Kesler will be out until December. NHL coaches usually have a pretty good read on what they have by then. Lou's value might even be enhanced by early season play by weak performance or injury. The pressure for a deal rests fairly equally. Gillis has other trades he could make for CAP purposes while retaining Lou if need be.

he does ? Your speaking out your arse arnt you ?
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#944 Fibbing

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 05:59 PM

he does ? Your speaking out your arse arnt you ?


haha

#945 cool story bro

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 07:31 PM

Asdfghjkl
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#946 Systemaddict

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 07:35 PM

he does ? Your speaking out your arse arnt you ?


While the poster may be speaking out of it, that doesn't mean there aren't options. They could bury certain players if they absolutely had to, like the Devils have. It's not a good idea ...but if it means getting a player you want - who knows.

#947 WiDeN

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 07:59 PM

Asdfghjkl

I Doan't like your attitude.

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#948 MikeyBoy44

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 07:59 PM

I wonder why Canucks still have Gilman on payroll? He was supposed to be a Cap Geek. And now everyone and their dog can go to capgeek.com and pretend that they are experts.

How many times MG said to media - stop worrying about the cap, we got it covered ...

You also have to realize that although cap geek said we were capped gillis claimed we had over 2 mil to play with. One is right and I don't think gillis would make a bold claim like that without it being concrete. Who knows..
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#949 Ryan Kesler RK17

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 08:16 PM

I Doan't like your attitude.

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#950 WHL rocks

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 08:41 PM

Everyone who thinks its a great idea to sign Doan to a multi year contract worth $6 or $7 million plus per year should read up a bit on Messier signing with the Canucks. Many ppl thought he would lead the Canucks to a cup but some of us are old enough to remember how that turned out. Players who play Doan's style of game don't do well in their late 30's. As a matter of fact almost all players experience a huge drop in their play in their late 30's. That's why most of them retire at that age.

Many ppl on CDC say Doan is a great leader but I don't know why. I do recall that Messier was called the greatest leader in professional sports by most of Canadian sports media.

Doan is overrated and will be grossly overpaid. After one year most ppl on CDC will call him a all sorts of negative names and call for Gillis to be fired for signing Doan to a ridiculous contract.

#951 WHL rocks

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 08:45 PM

Front loading the contract like that makes no sense for a player like Doan. That tactic is used to lower a cap hit for long contracts to players under 35 years of age. If he retires before the end of this contract, the hit is still on the books. Might as well pay him 6 mill through and through. Just seems odd to me...unless it's considered a signing bonus.


What front loading does is let Doan make most of his money in the first 3 years. The 4 h year his salary might be $1 million. His rights could be traded to a cap floor team and he would retire. Everyone wins especially Doan.

#952 oldnews

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 08:59 PM

Everyone who thinks its a great idea to sign Doan to a multi year contract worth $6 or $7 million plus per year should read up a bit on Messier signing with the Canucks. Many ppl thought he would lead the Canucks to a cup but some of us are old enough to remember how that turned out. Players who play Doan's style of game don't do well in their late 30's. As a matter of fact almost all players experience a huge drop in their play in their late 30's. That's why most of them retire at that age.

Many ppl on CDC say Doan is a great leader but I don't know why. I do recall that Messier was called the greatest leader in professional sports by most of Canadian sports media.

Doan is overrated and will be grossly overpaid. After one year most ppl on CDC will call him a all sorts of negative names and call for Gillis to be fired for signing Doan to a ridiculous contract.


In my opinion, Messier is up there with Keenan as one of the biggest mistakes in Canucks history.

But your argument about age and using Messier as an argument that Doan will be a failure doesn't quite add up. Messier didn't really hav anything left to prove - he was utterly uninspiring in Vancouver - I'd go so far as to say he was a pure floater - and worse, he divided the franchise when he accepted the "C - and being a Ranger who had stolen the Cup from us, the taste was bad from the start.

On the other hand, when Messier was 35 years old in New York, he put up 47 goals and 99 points - at 36 he put up 36 goals and 84 points - in Vancouver at 37 it was 22 and 60.... at 40 he scored 24 goals and 67 points. He decided to play until he was 43/44 years old - I honestly thought he brought next to nothing with him to Vancouver. He was no longer a physical force, I could care less about his intangible "leadership" (example is the best form of leadership...) and I don't think he was much of one. Anyway, I don't care much for the comparison.

The differences between he and Doan, imo, couldn't be more significant. Doan is still a physical force, he has a serious drive to win, something he has not had the opportunity to do, I don't see him coming in and being handed a "C" (or having the seas part for him), and I just see next to no chance of him pulling a Messier v2.0.

Edited by oldnews, 03 August 2012 - 09:04 PM.


#953 Millerdraft

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 09:05 PM

Everyone who thinks its a great idea to sign Doan to a multi year contract worth $6 or $7 million plus per year should read up a bit on Messier signing with the Canucks. Many ppl thought he would lead the Canucks to a cup but some of us are old enough to remember how that turned out. Players who play Doan's style of game don't do well in their late 30's. As a matter of fact almost all players experience a huge drop in their play in their late 30's. That's why most of them retire at that age.

Many ppl on CDC say Doan is a great leader but I don't know why. I do recall that Messier was called the greatest leader in professional sports by most of Canadian sports media.

Doan is overrated and will be grossly overpaid. After one year most ppl on CDC will call him a all sorts of negative names and call for Gillis to be fired for signing Doan to a ridiculous contract.


There is definitely inherent risk with Doan, and I was initially opposed to giving him a four year deal, but is there a better fit for sticking out there with the Sedins if/when (more when than if tbh) someone decides they're a Lucic/Ladd when they're really a Marchand/Bolland. Doan would put an end to that right frickin' quick and Doan actually has the skill to play in a top-six role. Once the liberties abate, the twins can go back to doing what they do best.

And really, is there a better mentor for Kassian both on and off the ice? People forget how much credit Naslund gave to Messier for help in overcoming Naslund's self doubt and how Naslund took off after that. Same goes for the twins & Kesler with Naslund, Linden & Sundin. I don't think there is a more similar player than Doan when it comes to what Gillis wants to get out of Kassian and if overpaying Doan gives us better odds of helping Kassian reach his ceiling (20-25g 35-50a 100+PIMs) that is worth every penny of a $24m deal.

Our next decade depends on Jensen & Kassian actually realizing their potential and having Doan & the Sedins there to guide them is a great start towards that.

Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#954 Neufy161

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 09:11 PM

Front loading the contract like that makes no sense for a player like Doan. That tactic is used to lower a cap hit for long contracts to players under 35 years of age. If he retires before the end of this contract, the hit is still on the books. Might as well pay him 6 mill through and through. Just seems odd to me...unless it's considered a signing bonus.


The cap hit has nothing to do with FE loaded contracts... the cap hit is the average over the duration of the contract.

This is why is amazes me when people are so concerned about front loaded contracts... it has no impact on us or our team at all! The player simply gets a high paycheck that year and a low one the next... cap hit remains the same the entire contract.

Edited by Neufy161, 03 August 2012 - 09:12 PM.

Oh hello Alain Vigneault, I see what you did there... good one.

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#955 WHL rocks

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 09:26 PM

In my opinion, Messier is up there with Keenan as one of the biggest mistakes in Canucks history.

But your argument about age and using Messier as an argument that Doan will be a failure doesn't quite add up. Messier didn't really hav anything left to prove - he was utterly uninspiring in Vancouver - I'd go so far as to say he was a pure floater - and worse, he divided the franchise when he accepted the "C - and being a Ranger who had stolen the Cup from us, the taste was bad from the start.

On the other hand, when Messier was 35 years old in New York, he put up 47 goals and 99 points - at 36 he put up 36 goals and 84 points - in Vancouver at 37 it was 22 and 60.... at 40 he scored 24 goals and 67 points. He decided to play until he was 43/44 years old - I honestly thought he brought next to nothing with him to Vancouver. He was no longer a physical force, I could care less about his intangible "leadership" (example is the best form of leadership...) and I don't think he was much of one. Anyway, I don't care much for the comparison.

The differences between he and Doan, imo, couldn't be more significant. Doan is still a physical force, he has a serious drive to win, something he has not had the opportunity to do, I don't see him coming in and being handed a "C" (or having the seas part for him), and I just see next to no chance of him pulling a Messier v2.0.


Messier was one of the most physical players of his generation. He was called the Moose for a reason. Doan has never been as physical as Messier was. The fact is age caught up to Mes as will to Doan. Thats why its a bad idea to sign him to a 3 or 4 year contract.

Name one player that is a physical force in the NHL at the age Doan would be during his next contract. If its a 4 year contract he will be 36 when it starts and almost 40 when it ends. He's a 50pt guy right now. His point prodiction will only decline and he will be unable to play a very physical game. This will be an albatross contract.

Ofcourse there is zero chance the Canucks will strip Henrik of the C and give it to Doan. What has Doan ever accomplished in his NHL career as a captain that would justify doing such a thing? I strongly disagree with your claim that Doan has a serious drive to win and Messier didn't.

If Doan wanted to win so bad he would not have re-signed with PHX on his last contract and he would not be contemplating re-signing with PHX right now. There is little to no chance PHX wins a cup in the next 3 or 4 years. Doan chose to stay in PHX because of the lifestyle. He and his family love living in PHX. They chose the lifestyle of living in PHX over moving to another city for a chance to win a cup. So there is absolutely no proof to your claim that Doan has a stronger drive to win then Messier did. As a matter of fact evidence points to the opposite of that.

#956 Tearloch7

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 09:28 PM

There is definitely inherent risk with Doan, and I was initially opposed to giving him a four year deal, but is there a better fit for sticking out there with the Sedins if/when (more when than if tbh) someone decides they're a Lucic/Ladd when they're really a Marchand/Bolland. Doan would put an end to that right frickin' quick and Doan actually has the skill to play in a top-six role. Once the liberties abate, the twins can go back to doing what they do best.

And really, is there a better mentor for Kassian both on and off the ice? People forget how much credit Naslund gave to Messier for help in overcoming Naslund's self doubt and how Naslund took off after that. Same goes for the twins & Kesler with Naslund, Linden & Sundin. I don't think there is a more similar player than Doan when it comes to what Gillis wants to get out of Kassian and if overpaying Doan gives us better odds of helping Kassian reach his ceiling (20-25g 35-50a 100+PIMs) that is worth every penny of a $24m deal.

Our next decade depends on Jensen & Kassian actually realizing their potential and having Doan & the Sedins there to guide them is a great start towards that.


Have you actually watched Doana play much? .. he is going to "protect" the Sedins? .. that is a funny one .. he is like the cowardly lion .. won't even defend himself unless he is cornered or the other player is like one of the Sedins .. :picard:

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#957 WHL rocks

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 09:38 PM

There is definitely inherent risk with Doan, and I was initially opposed to giving him a four year deal, but is there a better fit for sticking out there with the Sedins if/when (more when than if tbh) someone decides they're a Lucic/Ladd when they're really a Marchand/Bolland. Doan would put an end to that right frickin' quick and Doan actually has the skill to play in a top-six role. Once the liberties abate, the twins can go back to doing what they do best.

And really, is there a better mentor for Kassian both on and off the ice? People forget how much credit Naslund gave to Messier for help in overcoming Naslund's self doubt and how Naslund took off after that. Same goes for the twins & Kesler with Naslund, Linden & Sundin. I don't think there is a more similar player than Doan when it comes to what Gillis wants to get out of Kassian and if overpaying Doan gives us better odds of helping Kassian reach his ceiling (20-25g 35-50a 100+PIMs) that is worth every penny of a $24m deal.

Our next decade depends on Jensen & Kassian actually realizing their potential and having Doan & the Sedins there to guide them is a great start towards that.


I've never known Doan to be an enforcer or a fighter. He has 4 fights in the past 3 NHL seasons. Repeat 4 fight in past 3 seasons.
So I don't expect his role to be protecting the Sedins or stop opposing players from roughing up current Canuck players. Not the least bit.

If we are going to sign a 36 year old player to $6 or $7 mill per year for 4 years to be Kassian's mentor this is going to be a bigger catastrophe than I first thought.

#958 16mark

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 10:01 PM

Sadly the more this drags out the more I think he's just using the Canucks to put pressure on Phoenix.

He said on CKNW that Friday was the decision day. But the deadline keeps on being extended like Doans waiting for something. Waiting for Phoenix to get there collective $hat together. He's just playing off us.

Edited by 16mark, 03 August 2012 - 10:05 PM.


#959 WHL rocks

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 10:29 PM

Sadly the more this drags out the more I think he's just using the Canucks to put pressure on Phoenix.

He said on CKNW that Friday was the decision day. But the deadline keeps on being extended like Doans waiting for something. Waiting for Phoenix to get there collective $hat together. He's just playing off us.


There is no doubt Doan's first choice is to re-sign with PHX. If the team gets bought and it looks like they will be staying in PHX Doan will re-sign. He likes living in PHX. His family does also. He won't win a Cup there but he will make lots of money playing hockey in a city he loves living in.

Unlike many other ppl I don't buy into the whole "lifelong dream to win a cup" thing. When you get older your priorities change. Family and lifestyle trump child hood fantasies. So does money. If you win a Cup great, and its an awesome thing but its not the number one thing in life for a 36 year old with wife and kids.

#960 Pears

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 10:33 PM

If we get Doan, could anyone see a 'Ray Bourque' scenario happening where Doan wins the Cup with us then retires?

In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

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