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[Signing] Shea Weber to Flyers (OFFERSHEET)


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#811 Fanuck

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 08:38 AM

Why do you pay Weber 25% of his contract for one year of play and then deal him?? The return would have to be astronomical.

What is likely going to happen is Poile and Homgren will work out a trade this week for Weber. This offer sheet was probably done to force the trade. The return for Poile will likely be pretty good. It will be better than 4 1st round picks. He can negotiate with Holmgren all week.


If you're Poile, you have to look long and hard at 4 1st round picks as compensation (as is speculated by TSN). Not sure what Phily have on their current roster/system that would be better than that unless you're getting Giroux and B. Schenn - those would be the ONLY guys I would want from PHI.

#812 Lonny_Bohonos_14

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 08:43 AM

If you're Poile, you have to look long and hard at 4 1st round picks as compensation (as is speculated by TSN). Not sure what Phily have on their current roster/system that would be better than that unless you're getting Giroux and B. Schenn - those would be the ONLY guys I would want from PHI.


You also have to look at the fact that these would likely be late 1st rounders.

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#813 ice orca

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 08:43 AM

If Weber does go to Philly some teams in the east might want a world class goaltender with a measly 5.3 cap hit to even compete with the Flyers. That certain goaltenders value just went up.

#814 JustJokinen!

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 08:43 AM

I'm a little confused here (and yes doesn't take much to do that) but how the hell do you front load a contract like that - 27 mil in the first year? Whats the difference between this contract and the one New Jersey did with Kovalchuk? Anyone - anyone at all that feels sorry for owners and is siding with them in the current negotiations needs to look no farther than Philly to see these idiots can't control themselves even with a salary cap. Personally I think the league needs to null and void this contract - I thought in no year could the salary exceed the max you could pay a player under the CBA - apparently thats not the case.

Don't get me wrong - I love the fact Weber is going East (and he was never going to be a Canuck folks) and Philly can sign all the D men they like but until they solve their goaltending problem they are going nowhere.

Weber (if he leaves) just made the West a little bit easier for the Canucks :D


It's one calendar year, not one season, that he gets 27m. He'll get a huge signing bonus when the contract becomes official and then another one next July 1st, 2013.

Kovy's contract took him to age 44, this takes Weber to age 40, and I think the limit that was set after the Kovy deal was age 41. This contract seems legal, I'm sure Philly did their due diligence.

#815 hsedin33

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 08:43 AM

Oh yeah here come the Perry, Getzlaf, Streit, Iginla, Alfredsson, Lupul, Hartnell, Morrow, Regehr, many of the other FA's to Vancouver threads!!



Edited by hsedin33, 19 July 2012 - 08:45 AM.


#816 Steve Carell

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 08:44 AM

I'm a little confused here (and yes doesn't take much to do that) but how the hell do you front load a contract like that - 27 mil in the first year? Whats the difference between this contract and the one New Jersey did with Kovalchuk? Anyone - anyone at all that feels sorry for owners and is siding with them in the current negotiations needs to look no farther than Philly to see these idiots can't control themselves even with a salary cap. Personally I think the league needs to null and void this contract - I thought in no year could the salary exceed the max you could pay a player under the CBA - apparently thats not the case.

Don't get me wrong - I love the fact Weber is going East (and he was never going to be a Canuck folks) and Philly can sign all the D men they like but until they solve their goaltending problem they are going nowhere.

Weber (if he leaves) just made the West a little bit easier for the Canucks :D


I read that the first year is like $1 million plus $26 or something million in bonuses. Maybe it's the fact that it's bonuses and not straight up (if that makes sense)?

I really have no idea, I was wondering the same thing actually.

#817 MikeBossy

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 08:46 AM

It's one calendar year, not one season, that he gets 27m. He'll get a huge signing bonus when the contract becomes official and then another one next July 1st, 2013.

Kovy's contract took him to age 44, this takes Weber to age 40, and I think the limit that was set after the Kovy deal was age 41. This contract seems legal, I'm sure Philly did their due diligence.


K thanks for expalining that. Much Appreciated

Wait - how can you get two signing bonuses on a 14 yr contract lmao

Edited by MikeBossy, 19 July 2012 - 08:47 AM.

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#818 Lonny_Bohonos_14

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 08:46 AM

I read that the first year is like $1 million plus $26 or something million in bonuses. Maybe it's the fact that it's bonuses and not straight up (if that makes sense)?

I really have no idea, I was wondering the same thing actually.

Nick Kypreos@RealKyper
#Preds Weber offer sheet from #Flyers. 1st 4 yrs 1M salary+13M sb; yrs 5-6 4M sal+ 8Msb; yrs 7-10 6M sal; year 11 3M sal; last 3 yrs 1M sal


14 - 14 - 14 - 14 - 12 - 12 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 3 - 1 - 1 - 1


So it's not 26 Million in one payment. He gets 13 when he signs the deal, then another 13 next July 1.

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#819 Fanuck

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 08:47 AM

If Weber does go to Philly some teams in the east might want a world class goaltender with a measly 5.3 cap hit to even compete with the Flyers. That certain goaltenders value just went up.


As it looks right now, PHI is probably the team in most need of elite goaltending who is closest to being a legit contender ironically.

#820 JLumme

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 08:48 AM

Hopefully Nashville doesn't match, they miss the playoffs for the next few years and move the team to Quebec, or contract it with some other sad-sack franchise like the Dallas Stars. So sick of these cash-poor teams dragging down the rest of the league.

#821 B_a_M

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 08:48 AM

It makes me laugh that some people comment on where Mike Gillis was and why he didn't sign an offer sheet. The Canuck's prospect pool for one isn't anything to brag about and offering up to 4 first round draft picks would just kill the Canuck farm club. Also Gillis is still trying to work out a hockey trade for Luongo, you don't want to give a way a talent just like that. Just like July 1st where everyone was calling for Gillis' head you have to be patient.

#822 mygame

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 08:48 AM

That sucks ,lets hope Nash match's it then maybe trades him in 1 year. Thats the only chance now of Van ever seeing him. :(

#823 MikeBossy

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 08:53 AM

You know its going to be a brutal day on these boards when Doan doesn't sign here either lol - get over it folks - we were never getting Weber. Lets move on please and stop calling out Gillis. I don't want my hockey team saddled with any more long term contracts that are a b*tch to move when the player wants to move on
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#824 playboi19

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 08:53 AM

That sucks ,lets hope Nash match's it then maybe trades him in 1 year. Thats the only chance now of Van ever seeing him. :(

Nope. Nashville can't trade him until year two, meaning they would still have to pay him $26M. They'd likely keep him unless they get an Ovechkin in return at that point.

#825 ccc44

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 08:56 AM

That 27 million is probably the biggest, if not, sole reason that Nashville won't match. This must be terrible for the Preds and Poile because it's up the ownership to see if they can or even want to fork over 27 million in one calender yearThey were a force this season but now have potentially lost 2 of the best defensemen in the game in one offseason.

Without Weber they're gonna be running a REALLY young defense:

Klein - Josi
Ellis - Gill
Eckholm - Blum

They will match it
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#826 ice orca

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 08:57 AM

As it looks right now, PHI is probably the team in most need of elite goaltending who is closest to being a legit contender ironically.


Yeah i know but teams will have to make moves to compete with the Flyers and the best way is with a goaltender who can get them in the playoffs. This opens up a few more teams than Florida and puts serious pressure on Toronto. As i said Louongos value just went up..way up.

#827 Fanuck

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 08:57 AM

Nope. Nashville can't trade him until year two, meaning they would still have to pay him $26M. They'd likely keep him unless they get an Ovechkin in return at that point.


I wouldn't trade Ovi for Weber right now, their going in opposite directions in their careers. Weber being on the rise that is.

#828 JustJokinen!

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 08:58 AM

K thanks for expalining that. Much Appreciated

Wait - how can you get two signing bonuses on a 14 yr contract lmao


Actually he's getting a lot more than two SBs. The majority of the money he makes in the first few years is all signing bonuses to protect the money from a possible salary roll back in the new CBA.

I wish this was us instead of Philly. :sadno:

Onto plan B: Offersheet ALL THE FLYERS!

Who do they have? Voracek? They must be in a cap crunch right now, and if we signed it today it would really put them in a bind with them having to await word from Nashville.

#829 RXnucks975

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 08:58 AM

eeeeewwww who wants to be in filthydelphia for anytime let alone 14 years...well maybe 110 million reasons come to mind

#830 MikeBossy

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 08:59 AM

They will match it


Yeah I tend to agree - they have no choice really and without Suter there they should be able to afford it. It's Poille's fault really - he left it out there as an option for Weber and any team looking for that number 1 D man.
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#831 RXnucks975

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 09:00 AM

Actually he's getting a lot more than two SBs. The majority of the money he makes in the first few years is all signing bonuses to protect the money from a possible salary roll back in the new CBA.

I wish this was us instead of Philly. :sadno:

Onto plan B: Offersheet ALL THE FLYERS!

Who do they have? Voracek? They must be in a cap crunch right now, and if we signed it today it would really put them in a bind with them having to await word from Nashville.


Voracek would be a nice addition to our top 6, I don't know too much about him other than spent time in Columbus and Philly...is he a pass first or shot first guy? I've heard he's more pass first which is exactly what we need

#832 inCalgaryCANUCKSFAN

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 09:02 AM

I'm a little confused here (and yes doesn't take much to do that) but how the hell do you front load a contract like that - 27 mil in the first year? Whats the difference between this contract and the one New Jersey did with Kovalchuk? Anyone - anyone at all that feels sorry for owners and is siding with them in the current negotiations needs to look no farther than Philly to see these idiots can't control themselves even with a salary cap. Personally I think the league needs to null and void this contract - I thought in no year could the salary exceed the max you could pay a player under the CBA - apparently thats not the case.

Don't get me wrong - I love the fact Weber is going East (and he was never going to be a Canuck folks) and Philly can sign all the D men they like but until they solve their goaltending problem they are going nowhere.

Weber (if he leaves) just made the West a little bit easier for the Canucks :D

one of the reasons kovalchuk contract was rejected was based on the fact that the likely hood of him playing to the age of 40 was not going to happen and the devils also knew that.
Rejected offer was 17 years $102million, of which he would earn 95milliion in the first 10 years and 1 million after that for the remaining 7 years.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=328025 (source)

I think more then anything the NHL wants to see the likely hood that a player will finish the contract bearing no career ending injuries or get close to it +/- 2-3 years of the contact.
The question the NHL would look at is the likely hood of Webber playing at the age of 37 for example is very likely

#833 Wilbur

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 09:03 AM

Nick Kypreos@RealKyper
#Preds Weber offer sheet from #Flyers. 1st 4 yrs 1M salary+13M sb; yrs 5-6 4M sal+ 8Msb; yrs 7-10 6M sal; year 11 3M sal; last 3 yrs 1M sal


14 - 14 - 14 - 14 - 12 - 12 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 3 - 1 - 1 - 1

ugh, not sure how Kovalchuk's contract is cap circumventing and this is not.

My best case scenario in the next CBA?
1) no contracts allowed that are over 5 years in length that take a player past their 35 birthday.
ie. if a player is 27, he can only sign an 8 year deal
-if a player is 23, he can only sign a 12 year deal
-any player 31-34 can sign a 5 year deal

2) get rid of the 35+ cap hit still counts if they don't play and replace it with anyone over 35 and the money paid has to be equal every single year.
ie. player signs a 4 year deal worth 16 mil. He gets paid and has a cap hit of 4million every year.

#834 Gollumpus

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 09:03 AM

Weber/Philly has forced everyone's hand.

1.) Nashville matches this reasonable offer.

2.) After matching, Poile will talk to Weber and ask him if he wants to stay a Predator. If the answer is "no", then Poile calls Philly and they are asked if they would like to trade for Weber.

3.) Philly, assuming they still want Weber, will trade *more* for Weber than four 1st rounders. If Philly doesn't bite, some other team will. If no other team wants to pay Nashville's asking price, Weber stays a Pred.

regards,
G.
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#835 Fanuck

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 09:06 AM

Yeah I tend to agree - they have no choice really and without Suter there they should be able to afford it. It's Poille's fault really - he left it out there as an option for Weber and any team looking for that number 1 D man.


You can't say that with any certainty. Poile could have tried everything to sign him and Weber could have refused. Weber could have asked for a trade and Poile could have been trying to work that out? Weber could have been making ridiculous demands, the NSH owners could have said no to a certain salary.....who knows?

#836 MikeBossy

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 09:06 AM

one of the reasons kovalchuk contract was rejected was based on the fact that the likely hood of him playing to the age of 40 was not going to happen and the devils also knew that.
Rejected offer was 17 years $102million, of which he would earn 95milliion in the first 10 years and 1 million after that for the remaining 7 years.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=328025 (source)

I think more then anything the NHL wants to see the likely hood that a player will finish the contract bearing no career ending injuries or get close to it +/- 2-3 years of the contact.
The question the NHL would look at is the likely hood of Webber playing at the age of 37 for example is very likely


Thanks for the link - after reading that story and looking at the CBA language they posted there its much more clearer and to me it's a valid contract and under the current CBA there's nothing to stop what they did.

ANyone else think Nash's value goes up a bit if Weber ends up in Philly and an Eastern team makes a move to secure him?
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#837 Gaunce

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 09:07 AM

Weber/Philly has forced everyone's hand.

1.) Nashville matches this reasonable offer.

2.) After matching, Poile will talk to Weber and ask him if he wants to stay a Predator. If the answer is "no", then Poile calls Philly and they are asked if they would like to trade for Weber.

3.) Philly, assuming they still want Weber, will trade *more* for Weber than four 1st rounders. If Philly doesn't bite, some other team will. If no other team wants to pay Nashville's asking price, Weber stays a Pred.

regards,
G.


If Nash matches they can't trade him for 2 years
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#838 Lonny_Bohonos_14

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 09:09 AM

Nashville, Tenn. (July 19, 2012) – Nashville Predators President of Hockey Operations/General Manager David Poile issued the following statement this morning:
"We are in receipt of the offer sheet signed between the Philadelphia Flyers and Shea Weber. Under the rules pertaining to an offer sheet, the Predators have one week to decide whether to match or accept the compensation. We have stated previously that, should a team enter into an offer sheet with Shea, our intention would be to match and retain Shea. Our ownership has provided us with the necessary resources to build a Stanley Cup-winning team. Due to the complexity of the offer sheet, we will take the appropriate time to review and evaluate it and all of its ramifications in order to make the best decision for the Predators in both the short and long-term.
“We do not anticipate any further comments on this situation until we make our decision within the next seven days.”

http://predators.nhl...s.htm?id=638229

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#839 MikeBossy

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 09:09 AM

You can't say that with any certainty. Poile could have tried everything to sign him and Weber could have refused. Weber could have asked for a trade and Poile could have been trying to work that out? Weber could have been making ridiculous demands, the NSH owners could have said no to a certain salary.....who knows?


My point was that if Weber was doing all this move him for whatever you can get. And you don't leave it until the guy is a RFA. Say what you like about Gillis but at least he secured Schneids into a contract before he became a RFA.
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#840 D-Money

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 09:10 AM

It's too much cold, hard cash for Nashville to match.

Four late first round picks isn't much for Weber, but it's a helluva lot more than what they got for Hamhuis and Suter.

Can Philly and Nashville still work out a trade within the week?

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