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[Signing] Shea Weber to Flyers (OFFERSHEET)


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#1171 Garrison

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 11:46 AM

If Nashville doesn't match it's not a good sign to the players in the organization. They have to match.
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#1172 Goal:thecup

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 11:55 AM

There is no way the 4 picks are worth losing the player.
They won't even get to choose the first player until 2013 and it will be 2016 before they choose the fourth player.
Picking at about 25th, you would expect a couple years development time at least before they crack your NHL lineup.
As shown above, you could not get anywhere close to Weber's value by trading the 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2016 approximately 25th or worse picks.
It is not the picks.

It is the money and term, and whether the league approves the deal.
If the league approves the deal, and Nashville still lets Weber go, they did not want to pay the money (they probably are ok with the long term).
This is what Weber has shown Nashville; that they were not offering fair market value.

I believe Nashville will match the offer and I think that Canucks management thinks so as well.
Vancouver believes Nashville will match any offer so they did not want to create a bad relationship for no return.
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#1173 canucks_dynasty

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 11:56 AM

Why are people saying the compensation will be four 1st rounders????

From wiki...last years offersheet compensations was...
$7,835,220 and above = Four first-round picks

Rumored that the Offersheet is $110M over 14 years = $7,857,142.

The Salary Cap went up from $64M to $70M. So the Offersheet Compensation numbers might also go up as well.

The compensation may very well be only two 1st, one second, and one third round pick.

If that is the case...Nashville has to match as that is a poor return for Weber.



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#1174 canucks_dynasty

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 12:02 PM

He's a RFA right now.

 


$1,110,249 or below - No Compensation
Over $1,110,249 to $1,682,194 - 3rd round pick
Over $1,682,194 to $3,364,391 - 2nd round pick
Over $3,364,391 to $5,046,585 - 1st round pick, 3rd
Over $5,046,585 to $6,728,781 - 1st round pick, 2nd, 3rd
Over $6,728,781 To $8,410,976 - Two 1st Round Picks, 2nd, 3rd
Over $8,410,976 - Four 1st Round Picks

http://www.pensionpl...le-offer-sheets

AAV of $7.14 million, so two 1st round picks, 2nd, and 3rd. Not bad. Why didn't MG do this?


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#1175 Bieksa's Quote

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 12:39 PM

I didn't realize Edler had as many points as Weber - with fewer goals and 3 more games played albeit.

I'm not trying to say Edler is as good as Weber, he clearly isn't. Poorer defensive play, a lower shooting percentage and lack of consistency is mainly what separates him from Weber. Plus he was downright awful in his most recent playoff outing, for whatever reason that may be. But if he plays close enough to his potential, not paying up for Weber and avoiding a potential mess with the rest of the team may be worth it.
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#1176 Canadian

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 12:41 PM

Why are people saying the compensation will be four 1st rounders????

From wiki...last years offersheet compensations was...
$7,835,220 and above = Four first-round picks

Rumored that the Offersheet is $110M over 14 years = $7,857,142.

The Salary Cap went up from $64M to $70M. So the Offersheet Compensation numbers might also go up as well.

The compensation may very well be only two 1st, one second, and one third round pick.

If that is the case...Nashville has to match as that is a poor return for Weber.

For any contract over 5 years they take the full amount (110 million) and divide by 5 years - so well over the necessary amount for the 4 first rounders compensation.
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#1177 grandcanuck

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 12:42 PM

Regardless of the compensation, Nashville should match - just to prove a point. They can always trade him next year, and I'm sure they could get a much better return.

It will be interesting to see how the cap hits under the next CBA works if the cap drops substantially on these types of contracts.
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#1178 canucks_dynasty

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 12:49 PM

For any contract over 5 years they take the full amount (110 million) and divide by 5 years - so well over the necessary amount for the 4 first rounders compensation.


Thanks for clearing that up.
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#1179 OrrFour

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 12:57 PM

like Burnaby Joe.

BJoe is a misnomer. You mean Colorado Joe.
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#1180 Vlas=d

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 02:43 PM

I didn't realize Edler had as many points as Weber - with fewer goals and 3 more games played albeit.

I'm not trying to say Edler is as good as Weber, he clearly isn't. Poorer defensive play, a lower shooting percentage and lack of consistency is mainly what separates him from Weber. Plus he was downright awful in his most recent playoff outing, for whatever reason that may be. But if he plays close enough to his potential, not paying up for Weber and avoiding a potential mess with the rest of the team may be worth it.


If Edler plays at his best I would take him over Weber. Weber doesn't put fear into other plays unless u count how he is a dirty like bitch that smashes peoples heads in. The only reason we beat Chicago 2 years ago was because Edler put the fear of god into Kane. Kane would just give the puck away fearing Edler was going to run him over again. What Edler's problem last year was I've no idea maybe he was injured? maybe he was sick? Maybe he Just had too much pressure on him? What I do know though is Hamhuis didn't even handle the pressure last year if you want to point a finger at anyone you have to point it at Hamhuis' dive to call a penalty which ended up eliminating the Canucks was just a WTF moment. You would of had to be a complete moron to think that it wasn't a dive.
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#1181 Bieksa's Quote

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 02:55 PM

If Edler plays at his best I would take him over Weber. Weber doesn't put fear into other plays unless u count how he is a dirty like bitch that smashes peoples heads in. The only reason we beat Chicago 2 years ago was because Edler put the fear of god into Kane. Kane would just give the puck away fearing Edler was going to run him over again. What Edler's problem last year was I've no idea maybe he was injured? maybe he was sick? Maybe he Just had too much pressure on him? What I do know though is Hamhuis didn't even handle the pressure last year if you want to point a finger at anyone you have to point it at Hamhuis' dive to call a penalty which ended up eliminating the Canucks was just a WTF moment. You would of had to be a complete moron to think that it wasn't a dive.


That was a bad play at the worst possible moment, but in fairness to Hamhuis he was our most consistent D-man and I think that was more of a fluke rather than a sign of his overall play.

Edler still has room to grow. While Weber is certainly a more proven player, Edler at a lower cap hit could prove to be an equally good deal (he's definitely not going to command ~7.86 M). The problem is his consistency. In the last Chicago series he was a total BEAST, but in the LA series he was a total dud. Since he just came off his best regular season though, I still have high hopes for him - he just needs to be consistent.

Edited by Bieksa's Quote, 20 July 2012 - 02:55 PM.

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#1182 Dogbyte

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 03:01 PM

If Edler plays at his best I would take him over Weber. Weber doesn't put fear into other plays unless u count how he is a dirty like bitch that smashes peoples heads in. The only reason we beat Chicago 2 years ago was because Edler put the fear of god into Kane. Kane would just give the puck away fearing Edler was going to run him over again. What Edler's problem last year was I've no idea maybe he was injured? maybe he was sick? Maybe he Just had too much pressure on him? What I do know though is Hamhuis didn't even handle the pressure last year if you want to point a finger at anyone you have to point it at Hamhuis' dive to call a penalty which ended up eliminating the Canucks was just a WTF moment. You would of had to be a complete moron to think that it wasn't a dive.

LOL, I would take Weber at his worst over Edler at his best. Because Weber is consistent, and consistenly better.

Putting fear into players ????, gentle Edler doesn't do that at all. Maybe once every 10-15 games. Edler is soft.
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#1183 DeNiro

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 03:06 PM

If Edler plays at his best I would take him over Weber. Weber doesn't put fear into other plays unless u count how he is a dirty like bitch that smashes peoples heads in. The only reason we beat Chicago 2 years ago was because Edler put the fear of god into Kane. Kane would just give the puck away fearing Edler was going to run him over again. What Edler's problem last year was I've no idea maybe he was injured? maybe he was sick? Maybe he Just had too much pressure on him? What I do know though is Hamhuis didn't even handle the pressure last year if you want to point a finger at anyone you have to point it at Hamhuis' dive to call a penalty which ended up eliminating the Canucks was just a WTF moment. You would of had to be a complete moron to think that it wasn't a dive.


I agree about Weber not being that intimidating. The only way he intimidates people is if he catches them with a good hit, or does some dirty plays.

If you watch him in his own zone, he's actually not that great. I would take Suter over him any day of the week. He especially struggles against faster forwards like Kesler in the playoffs a couple years ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu3uULWKTw0

Look how easily Kesler just pushes past him and knocks him down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6xL6zcA-sI

Had pleny of opportunity to take the body but didn't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efg7QUOZmNw

Standing there watching the pass

He's obviously a great offensive defenseman, but as far as his shutdown abilities go, he's about on par with Edler. We'll see how well he does now that he doesn't have Suter with him.

Edited by DeNiro, 20 July 2012 - 03:13 PM.

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#1184 OrrFour

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 03:07 PM

There is no way the 4 picks are worth losing the player.
They won't even get to choose the first player until 2013 and it will be 2016 before they choose the fourth player.
Picking at about 25th, you would expect a couple years development time at least before they crack your NHL lineup.
As shown above, you could not get anywhere close to Weber's value by trading the 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2016 approximately 25th or worse picks.
It is not the picks.

It is the money and term, and whether the league approves the deal.
If the league approves the deal, and Nashville still lets Weber go, they did not want to pay the money (they probably are ok with the long term).
This is what Weber has shown Nashville; that they were not offering fair market value.

I believe Nashville will match the offer and I think that Canucks management thinks so as well.
Vancouver believes Nashville will match any offer so they did not want to create a bad relationship for no return.

I think your take is bang on.
Despite the complaining that I'm reading from others Weber is getting market value in today's nhl.
I think preds will match and trade him after one year. I have my fingers crossed.
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#1185 DeNiro

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 03:10 PM

LOL, I would take Weber at his worst over Edler at his best. Because Weber is consistent, and consistenly better.

Putting fear into players ????, gentle Edler doesn't do that at all. Maybe once every 10-15 games. Edler is soft.


:picard: Sorry but that's one of the dumbest things I've seen on here.

Edler throws bone crunching hits just the same as Weber does. He's nowhere near being soft.

Could he use a little more consistency in his physical play? Absolutely. But by no means is he soft. Just watch everytime a forward comes into our zone, they're cautious when Edler is on the ice because they know he can deliver big hits.

Edited by DeNiro, 20 July 2012 - 03:11 PM.

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#1186 Bieksa's Quote

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 03:16 PM

LOL, I would take Weber at his worst over Edler at his best. Because Weber is consistent, and consistenly better.

Putting fear into players ????, gentle Edler doesn't do that at all. Maybe once every 10-15 games. Edler is soft.


I disagree, Weber is an amazing player no doubt, but I think he's a little overrated. Particularly on CDC it seems. So no, Weber at his worst will not be better than Edler at his best, I'm pretty sure about that.

Also, Edler is far from soft. He has a big frame and he's not afraid to use it. If he catches anyone off guard with a clean check, they would get KO'd instantly. Just ask Drew Doughty or Patrick Kane.

Edited by Bieksa's Quote, 20 July 2012 - 03:17 PM.

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#1187 Vlas=d

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 03:26 PM

LOL, I would take Weber at his worst over Edler at his best. Because Weber is consistent, and consistenly better.

Putting fear into players ????, gentle Edler doesn't do that at all. Maybe once every 10-15 games. Edler is soft.





Doughty didn't play the same after this



I can't count the amount of times that kane would just give the puck away after being hit constantly by Edler.

I agree about Weber not being that intimidating. The only way he intimidates people is if he catches them with a good hit, or does some dirty plays.

If you watch him in his own zone, he's actually not that great. I would take Suter over him any day of the week. He especially struggles against faster forwards like Kesler in the playoffs a couple years ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu3uULWKTw0

Look how easily Kesler just pushes past him and knocks him down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6xL6zcA-sI

Had pleny of opportunity to take the body but didn't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efg7QUOZmNw

Standing there watching the pass

He's obviously a great offensive defenseman, but as far as his shutdown abilities go, he's about on par with Edler. We'll see how well he does now that he doesn't have Suter with him.


After that series I've never felt Weber was as good as everyone portrayed him to be because Kesler is not that good. Imagine if that was Crosby or Malkin coming down on him. They would completely undress him.

Edited by Vlas=d, 20 July 2012 - 03:27 PM.

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#1188 Garrison

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 04:08 PM

BJoe is a misnomer. You mean Colorado Joe.


No Burnaby Joe.
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#1189 canucksnihilist

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 04:16 PM

Philly basically screwed it for themselves and everyone else. At least for getting Weber as a free agent.

Only reason: They knew he wouldn't be signing with them as a FA. So they made him a huge offer in the hopes they could get him, no matter how small the chances.

IE. he would sign with Philly if it is between Philly and Nashville.

If he has a choice on the open market, who knows... but Philly knew it wasn't going to be on his list... and Philly knew it.
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#1190 DeNiro

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 04:42 PM

Hockeyy Insiderr says that the Preds options are to match the deal or arrange a trade with the Flyers.

Why would the Flyers have to trade for him? They already own his rights. Shows how much he knows about hockey.

He claims that the Flyers would offer Coutourier, Schenn, or Voracek, Read, and 2 Firsts! What an idiot.
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#1191 VegasCanuck

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 05:04 PM

Anyone thinking now might be a good time to throw an offer sheet at
Jakub Voracek


:emot-parrot:
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#1192 eretz canucks

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 05:07 PM

agree that after I watched that Nashville series, I thought less of Shea weber, he was not dominant whatsoever, and his team this year lost to PHX, again, weber not dominant, he is a great player and I wish the canucks offer sheeted him because it is such a low risk move but I would in no circumstances tear my team apart to get him. That offer of courturier, schenn, read, 2 firsts is a huge overpayment. Philly will be a worse team if they make that trade.
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#1193 eretz canucks

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 05:10 PM

id lov e for gillis to offer sheet voracek
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#1194 OrrFour

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 05:12 PM

No Burnaby Joe.

Oh I wish he decided to come home and play for the canucks then I'd happily call him Burnaby Joe.
We develop so few nhl stars in BC that we feel the need to take ownership of them. I understand this.
But he played his whole career with that franchise and is still working for them.
He's Colorado Joe. Just ask him.
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#1195 DeNiro

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 05:12 PM

Anyone thinking now might be a good time to throw an offer sheet at
Jakub Voracek


:emot-parrot:


That would be classic. Voracek is a great young player.

I wonder what it would take to steal him away.
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#1196 eretz canucks

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 05:15 PM

offer sheet voracek for 4.5 mill, philly cannot match that if they get weber and we can trade luongo to make up the picks.
voracek would look real good for us, gives us depth and youth, size, all the stuff gillis has been preaching but not achieving.
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#1197 Vlas=d

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 05:20 PM

Hockeyy Insiderr says that the Preds options are to match the deal or arrange a trade with the Flyers.

Why would the Flyers have to trade for him? They already own his rights. Shows how much he knows about hockey.

He claims that the Flyers would offer Coutourier, Schenn, or Voracek, Read, and 2 Firsts! What an idiot.


The preds might say we will match it unless u trade us these players
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#1198 DeNiro

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 05:27 PM

offer sheet voracek for 4.5 mill, philly cannot match that if they get weber and we can trade luongo to make up the picks.
voracek would look real good for us, gives us depth and youth, size, all the stuff gillis has been preaching but not achieving.


Offersheet Voracek for 3 years @ 4.5 mil

Trade Luongo and Raymond for Versteeg, Ellerby and a 2nd

Sedin Sedin Voracek
Booth Kesler Burrows
Higgins Lapierre Versteeg
Hansen Malhotra Kassian
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#1199 DeNiro

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 05:30 PM

The preds might say we will match it unless u trade us these players


If the Preds do that, the Flyers know it's because they can't afford Weber at that price though.

I would think the Flyers would rather give up 4 1st round picks then Coutourier, Read, and 2 1sts, therefore why not call the Preds bluff? They can always offer that package up again next offseason. No loss no gain.

Edit: Can you explain to me how a team that doesn't own a players rights can trade that player? As of right now Weber is a Flyer is he not? He only becomes a Predator again if they match. So how could a trade even be arranged?

Edited by DeNiro, 20 July 2012 - 05:31 PM.

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#1200 OrrFour

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 05:34 PM

Hockeyy Insiderr says that the Preds options are to match the deal or arrange a trade with the Flyers.Why would the Flyers have to trade for him? They already own his rights. Shows how much he knows about hockey. He claims that the Flyers would offer Coutourier, Schenn, or Voracek, Read, and 2 Firsts! What an idiot.

He's not an idiot.
It would work like this:
preds: We are going to match the offer unless you promise to make a trade with us afterwards.
Also, we are going to trade him after the first year and we refuse to trade him to you.
In fact, we hope to trade him to the Rangers, one of your main rivals.

flyers: Okay sounds good. After you match we will trade the schenn bros to you for three of our firsts. (or something like that)

Of course, the phlyers could say no to any kind of trade talk and take their chances.

Two teams hedging their bets. Trying to make a win-win for both teams.
This is not some fantasy scenario. It could happen.
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