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[Signing] Shea Weber to Flyers (OFFERSHEET)


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#1231 Dasein

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 06:37 PM

Pekka Rinne is now thirty and has never faced the onslaught hes about to face. He cant save the franchise. Polie has to sign. The only question is convincing the owner to bite the bullet and cough up.


Yeah exactly - so they'll easily tank even if Pekka is lights out. I'm just saying if it is too much money for Nashville, tanking for Nathan MacKinnon and building around a superstar is an option.
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#1232 Ghostsof1915

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 07:14 PM

Nashville is still around 14 million from the cap floor so they need to add salary regardless if they can afford it or not.

Even if they match the offer they're still 6 million away from the cap floor and there's not too many decent free agents left.

So basically if they make a deal with Philly, they would need to be taking players like Coburn and Schenn back to help them get back up to the cap floor.


And this is pretty much the reason that Nashville will match. The only way they won't is they financially just don't have the cash to pay him.
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#1233 canucklax

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 07:52 PM

And this is pretty much the reason that Nashville will match. The only way they won't is they financially just don't have the cash to pay him.


Nashville financially can't afford to pay him 26 million in a year
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#1234 grandmaster

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 08:33 PM

The Preds GM will be fired either way.

His lack of foresight has caused the owners to lose their captain/best player for picks that may never amount to anything or a crazy contract where they have to throw 26M in the first year to just one player (a task very difficult for the Preds to pay)

This GM screwed up with Suter and now he did it again with Weber. How many chances does he get??? He is the same person who lost Scott Stevens for basically nothing when he was the GM of the Caps.

All I got to say is wow!

Worst GM in the NHL


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#1235 awalk

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 08:43 PM

The Preds GM will be fired either way.

His lack of foresight has caused the owners to lose their captain/best player for picks that may never amount to anything or a crazy contract where they have to throw 26M in the first year to just one player (a task very difficult for the Preds to pay)

This GM screwed up with Suter and now he did it again with Weber. How many chances does he get??? He is the same person who lost Scott Stevens for basically nothing when he was the GM of the Caps.

All I got to say is wow!

Worst GM in the NHL



He doesn't have mind control powers.

Poile has consistently been one of the NHL's best GM's...with the financial restraints he has had the Predators have always been competitive and have done an excellent job drafting. Every GM has made some blunders, but there are far worse than Poile.
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#1236 D.Doughty

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 08:44 PM

The Preds GM will be fired either way.

His lack of foresight has caused the owners to lose their captain/best player for picks that may never amount to anything or a crazy contract where they have to throw 26M in the first year to just one player (a task very difficult for the Preds to pay)

This GM screwed up with Suter and now he did it again with Weber. How many chances does he get??? He is the same person who lost Scott Stevens for basically nothing when he was the GM of the Caps.

All I got to say is wow!

Worst GM in the NHL



So you think Brian Burke signing Jeff Finger and Komisarek for 4 mil+ is worse?
The Islanders signing Yashin and Dipietro to 20 year contracts is better?
Pierre Gautheir who traded for Gomez while giving up McDonaugh+ is better?
Glen Sather signing Wade Redden to a monster deal better?

Get real, there are plenty of GM worse than Poile. I bet if Gillis only had like 40 mil to work with and had to ice a playoff team, he wouldn't be able to do it.
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#1237 oldnews

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 08:51 PM

Poile is not the problem in Nashville - he managed to build Nashville into a team with as reasonable a chance of winning as any other team. Now he is hard up against it, and not because he is a poor GM, but because the circumstances sent the FA market crazy.
People - Nashville offered Suter a very sizeable contract, and no doubt had every intention of signing both him and Weber - they can afford to fork out for Weber. If Philly seriously wants Weber, they are going to have to fork over a package in line with what Howson wants for Nash.
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#1238 grandmaster

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 11:43 PM

The Nashville GM should have known he was going to be unable to sign his players. These guys don't all of the sudden become RFAs and UFAs!

If you can't re-sign your player before contract expiry, it becomes the GMs fault.. This Nashville GM should have realized that his players were moving on and he blew his opportunity to trade at the deadline and or before July 1. It's almost like he stuck his head in the sand and let time pass by without realizing the consequences.

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#1239 Jester@wraiths.ca

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 11:43 PM

This isn't Poile's decision at all. It is going to be whether or not ownership says he is allowed to spend that money, because it isn't just a normal "here's your yearly salary" contract. With such heavy front loading, especially 26 million within 11 months when there is no CBA and could be a shortened season with less revenue.

The team could let him go, take the 4 first rounders, and spend 14 million dollars on the best players available, and have saved 12 million dollars in that 11 month span. Giving away an extra 12 million dollars isn't something every owner is willing to do...
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#1240 grandmaster

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 11:49 PM

All I am saying is that he could have got a lot more than nothing for Suter and just 4 very late first rounders for arguably the best D man in the NHL

Yes, he can't control the purse strings but he should have had the foresight that Suter was probably going to walk and Weber would sign an offer sheet. It seems now that the Preds GM is screwed
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#1241 hsedin33

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 10:47 AM

Can anyone do a 'Players out/ Players In' for Nashville?
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#1242 Florence

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 11:02 AM

All I am saying is that he could have got a lot more than nothing for Suter and just 4 very late first rounders for arguably the best D man in the NHL

Yes, he can't control the purse strings but he should have had the foresight that Suter was probably going to walk and Weber would sign an offer sheet. It seems now that the Preds GM is screwed


Hindsight is 20/20

Everyone knew Suter wasn't going to resign in Nashville during the season as it was a public thing with deadlines for a deal that were never met. Nashville could have dealt him at the deadline but that would have shown they weren't going all out for the cup something that Weber openly wanted as he said he doesn't want to be part of a rebuilt he wants to win now. Nashville decided to be buyers at the deadline and banked on the team making some serious noise in the playoffs hoping that it would satisfy Weber and Suter and maybe even attract other players. Obviously this didn't work out.

It doesn't look like there was a winning road in this situation. Neither player was willing to sign a reasonable contract to stay. Weber wouldn't have been happy if they sold Suter at the deadline ether. Selling Suter at the deadline would have gotten them a nice return but would have guarenteed a dip in merchandise and ticket sales in an already rough market.

I don't think anyone saw the Weber offer sheet coming. Nash said they would match any offer so no one expected it. But then a team with a pool of money like the Flyers signs him to a contract built specifically to cause Nashville finacial issues if they match.

The Predators simply had little resources, little wiggle room, and other organizations, and there own players aren't cutting them any breaks for it. Failure was almost a guarentee and winning a cup was likely the only way to maybe salvage the situation.

IMO
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#1243 VegasCanuck

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 11:24 AM

I would almost bet that the Flyers are offering more than the current 4 x 1st rounders to Nashville to let him go. I would also almost bet that Voracek is part of that offer.

I suggested this earlier, but if you really want to make things fun for Philly, give Voracek an offer sheet so Philly only has the option of match and keep him for the year or let him go.

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#1244 Wh!stler R!der

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 11:54 AM

I hope Nashville matches. Sucks to be a Preds fan this offseason
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#1245 The Architect

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 11:58 AM

Starting to feel like Preds wont match.

I think a lot of it also has to do with the possibility of a lockout. The Preds arent exactly bathing in cash money, and if they were to sign Weber to that massive contract, they would be even less financially flexible. In the case of a lockout, they would still have to pay Weber, but they would have to do so without making money from ticket sales etc.

If Philadelphia lands him, I will be quite frustrated. Canucks COULD have and SHOULD have done what the Flyers did. Yes we are strapped cap wise, but that is only because Gillis is taking forever and more to trade Luongo.

If Luongo is back with the canucks next season, it will be embarrassing and awkward.
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#1246 Vlas=d

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 11:59 AM

So you think Brian Burke signing Jeff Finger and Komisarek for 4 mil+ is worse?
The Islanders signing Yashin and Dipietro to 20 year contracts is better?
Pierre Gautheir who traded for Gomez while giving up McDonaugh+ is better?
Glen Sather signing Wade Redden to a monster deal better?

Get real, there are plenty of GM worse than Poile. I bet if Gillis only had like 40 mil to work with and had to ice a playoff team, he wouldn't be able to do it.


Burke didn't sign Finger, Cliff Fletcher did.
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#1247 NucksBruins

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 12:30 PM

If Philadelphia lands him, I will be quite frustrated. Canucks COULD have and SHOULD have done what the Flyers did. Yes we are strapped cap wise, but that is only because Gillis is taking forever and more to trade Luongo..


Weber wanted to sign in Philly. Trading out one 12 year contract to acquire a 14 year contract is mind boggling. It is not like Weber guarantees us a championship anyway.
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#1248 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 12:41 PM

If Philadelphia lands him, I will be quite frustrated. Canucks COULD have and SHOULD have done what the Flyers did. Yes we are strapped cap wise, but that is only because Gillis is taking forever and more to trade Luongo.


My frustration comes from the purely predatory nature of the offer made byPhilly. Heading into CBA negotiations where the owners are trying to gain major concessions from the NHLPA and an owner/GM throws out a contract so obviously designed to circumvent the intent of the current CBA and one that preys on a smaller market, financially strapped team. Philly's actions could see Nashville become the next Phoenix.

I think Philly has acted disgracefully and I was a fan of what they were doing.

BTW - this has nothign to do with Weber not coming here as I never believed that was a possibility.
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#1249 Kassian's Face

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 01:12 PM

According to HockeyyInsiderr (not credible) Preds are willing to let Weber go to Philly for the Schenn Brothers. And apparently he will announce it tomorrow. Like I said, not from a credible source though.-
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#1250 LeanBeef

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 01:14 PM

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#1251 playboi19

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 01:15 PM

Yeah exactly - so they'll easily tank even if Pekka is lights out. I'm just saying if it is too much money for Nashville, tanking for Nathan MacKinnon and building around a superstar is an option.

Tank for Nathan Mackinnon and Connor Mcdavid.
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#1252 Dasein

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 02:06 PM

Tank for Nathan Mackinnon and Connor Mcdavid.


McDavid's another 3 years away isn't he? MacKinnon is next year which would be the year they'd be tanking.
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#1253 DeNiro

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 02:17 PM

Even without Weber I don't see Nashville as being bad enough to end up last. They most likely wouldn't make the playoffs, but their goaltending is too good to end up in dead last.

They still have to add 14 mil in salary too which will make them at least a solid team still. Expect them to revert back to their defensive trap play though.

Edited by DeNiro, 22 July 2012 - 02:18 PM.

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#1254 Dasein

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 02:30 PM

Even without Weber I don't see Nashville as being bad enough to end up last. They most likely wouldn't make the playoffs, but their goaltending is too good to end up in dead last.

They still have to add 14 mil in salary too which will make them at least a solid team still. Expect them to revert back to their defensive trap play though.


Well, let's say they don't - who is bad enough to be worse than them in this league? Looking at the bottom 5 teams from this year - Columbus, Edmonton, Montreal, New York Islanders, Toronto Maple Leafs - I would say only Columbus would be worse than Nashville at the moment. IF Nash is traded, I reckon that might change with the pieces they get in return.

I think even if they don't finish dead last, they will finish in the bottom 5 - that's a lottery pick in the top 5 of 2012. Not only that, they'll have Philadelphia's 1st round pick (25-30) in their pocket, and two 1st round picks in the next 3 years. I think Nashville could package 2-4 1st round picks (either of their own or PHI's in the next 3 years) and their top 5 pick in 2012 for the 1st overall pick to get MacKinnon. If not, they'll still have a solid prospect in their pocket with their own pick, and maybe try again for Ekblad the next season, or McDavid in the next.

People all say that PHI's 4 1st round picks will be useless, but fact is, without Weber (and Suter), NSH's 4 1st round picks in the future will become lottery picks, and they'll have a 1st round pick to trade for each year to either move up or for a roster player.

It's not as bad as everyone makes it out to be if NSH ends up with a couple lottery picks and rebuild their team from here on out. IMO, if they can't afford Weber, this wouldn't be a bad way to go.

If Poile plays this right and drafts right along with Barry Trotz's coaching and Rinne's net stability, then in the next few years Nashville could rise to be a contending team with lottery pick superstars a la Pittsburgh and Chicago.

Edited by Dasein, 22 July 2012 - 02:37 PM.

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#1255 DeNiro

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 02:37 PM

Well, let's say they don't - who is bad enough to be worse than them in this league? Looking at the bottom 5 teams from this year - Columbus, Edmonton, Montreal, New York Islanders, Toronto Maple Leafs - I would say only Columbus would be worse than Nashville at the moment. IF Nash is traded, I reckon that might change with the pieces they get in return.

I think even if they don't finish dead last, they will finish in the bottom 5 - that's a lottery pick in the top 5 of 2012. Not only that, they'll have Philadelphia's 1st round pick (25-30) in their pocket, and 2 1st round picks in the next 3 years. I think Nashville could package 2-4 1st round picks (either of their own or PHI's in the next 3 years) and their top 5 pick in 2012 for the 1st overall pick to get MacKinnon. If not, they'll still have a solid prospect in their pocket with their own pick, and maybe try again for Ekblad the next season, or McDavid in the next.

People all say that PHI's 4 1st round picks will be useless, but fact is, without Weber (and Suter), NSH's 4 1st round picks in the future will become lottery picks, and they'll have a 1st round pick to trade for each year to either move up or for a roster player.

It's not as bad as everyone makes it out to be if NSH ends up with a couple lottery picks and rebuild their team from here on out. IMO, if they can't afford Weber, this wouldn't be a bad way to go.


Nashville can't afford to be a last place team like Edmonton or Toronto can. They already have enough problems keeping their fans interested. Now you're going to take away their two best players and tank for the next few seasons? It's too risky for them.

If they don't keep Weber, I really believe it's the end of the Predators in Nashville.
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#1256 Primal Optimist

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 03:04 PM

If they keep him its the end of Preds hockey in Nashville just as much as if they don't keep him. This offer sheet, and the Captain accepting it has put a fork in the Nashville Predators....if the owner is smart he will take the 4 1sts, let the GM go and work it out through free agency and drafting, while saving 26m in costs for ONE PLAYER in a 23 man team over the next year where the NHL may or may not play.
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#1257 DeNiro

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 03:19 PM

If they keep him its the end of Preds hockey in Nashville just as much as if they don't keep him. This offer sheet, and the Captain accepting it has put a fork in the Nashville Predators....if the owner is smart he will take the 4 1sts, let the GM go and work it out through free agency and drafting, while saving 26m in costs for ONE PLAYER in a 23 man team over the next year where the NHL may or may not play.


Well Nashville made about 72 million in revenue in 2010-2011 before revenue sharing.

In a finicky market like Nashville where college sports are bigger than the NHL, fans are quick to turn their attention elsewhere if a team is losing.

So lets just say they tank for 3 years in order to get high draft picks. You can pretty much cut that 72 million down by about 20 mil, or to about what the Coyotes made that year. Basically the bottom line is nobody's coming to games, and they're definitely not buying merchandise.

So that's about 20 million lost in the first year alone. And then it's going to take a few years for that number 1 player to become an impact player, so then the team basically keeps losing, and you can keep cutting that revenue down every year until the team is completely bankrupt. And even if the number 1 pick does become a star, it's likely too late to salvage the team.

It sounds dramatic that 1 player can have such a big impact on a team, but it's true. Nashville without a star player, and at least a competitive team becomes the Phoenix Coyotes, but worse because at least the Coyotes win.

Edited by DeNiro, 22 July 2012 - 03:35 PM.

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#1258 Ray Canuck

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 03:20 PM

Thing is the way the contract is structured it won't help the Preds reach the cap floor, most of the money is signing bonuses and I don't think they are part of the cap calculations.
This offer sheet was 100% constructed to inflict max hurt on Nashville should they match.
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#1259 DeNiro

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 03:28 PM

Thing is the way the contract is structured it won't help the Preds reach the cap floor, most of the money is signing bonuses and I don't think they are part of the cap calculations.
This offer sheet was 100% constructed to inflict max hurt on Nashville should they match.


I don't understand why the NHL would even allow this contract. Wasn't it inferred that they were done with long-term contracts like this after the Kovalchuk one?

The NHL is not helping itself at all with these kinds of contracts. They're basically going to kill one of their own franchises by allowing this, or at least making it so other teams have to pay more to bail them out.

The owners say that they want to give the players less money, but then they keep allowing their GMs to hand out ridiculous contracts like this.

The NHL needs to step in and put a stop to this. Tell the Flyers they can't do this contract because it's cap circumvention. Cut it down to 10 years and eliminate the buyout years and the ridiculous signing bonuses. That would send a message to the rest of the GMs that these kinds of contracts aren't allowed anymore.
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#1260 Kyosama

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 03:29 PM

Thing is the way the contract is structured it won't help the Preds reach the cap floor, most of the money is signing bonuses and I don't think they are part of the cap calculations.
This offer sheet was 100% constructed to inflict max hurt on Nashville should they match.


Signing bonus does in fact count against cap, I believe that it's spread out so if the bonus is 13 million, he gets paid it immediately but it only adds about 928 000$ to the cap hit because it's over 14 years.

EDIT: Correct me if I'm wrong, I may very well be.

Edited by Kyosama, 22 July 2012 - 03:29 PM.

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