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Unlucky to be a Canucks fan...? Heart goes out to Colorado victims :(


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#31 Deets

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 10:27 AM

The gun lovers will suggest everyone should be packing heat so crap like this doesn't happen.


I don't think anyone wants to force you to carry anything. Its only the gun grabbing ninnies in this world who want to force their views on the rest of us. If we truly were a free people, we would have the CHOICE to carry the right tools for protecting ourselves. I personally don't have a need to carry a gun cause im over 250 pounds and am trained in tae kwon do, but my 5'2" mother is living in a house by herself in East Van. I sure would feel a lot better if she was legally allowed to have a loaded gun in the house. (she hates guns so she would never, but thats my example)

#32 Raiun

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 10:29 AM

What scares me most is how well equipped this guy sounded... he had explosives, gas bombs, and assault rifled, bullet proof vest and SWAT issued helmet, according to the report I read.

That is an absolutely unreasonable amount of hardware for a private citizen to just have.

What an awful tragedy. Wonder what made him do it.

#33 Grape

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 10:33 AM

Wow. The audience probably at first thought the shooting was part of the movie. RIP.
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#34 Deets

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 10:41 AM

If that is really the answer then how do you explain this kind of stuff only happening in the States? Very few times do u hear of a mass shooting in Canada thats for sure, it's always in the redneck ignorant country below us. RIP


It sure does happen in Canada. Happened this past week in Ontario. The states also has several times the amount of people living there. Statistically it would happen more frequently down there. If it was just the amount of guns that made people violent, places like Switzerland would be the most violent place in the world. They are required by law that each household must carry a military rifle in their home.

#35 Special Ed

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 10:41 AM

Strap this guy to a chair. Dim the lights. Throw on a movie. About 10 minutes in bring in an all black dressed swat member with an ak and shoot a few rounds past his head. Maybe one into his leg for good measure. Then interview him after and ask him how he enjoyed that.

If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#36 CrippledCanuck

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 11:02 AM

Oh please... it's because of people like you that we will spend most of our lives paying taxes to support this garbage as they get a nice bed, a gym, and 3 meals a day.

This is why Vince Li is found not criminally responsible and is allowed to parade around on the streets again.

This is why Andres Breivik is now living in a nicer facility than I am and is going to have chess playing parters because it is "too cruel" to put him in isolation.

This is why Magnotta will face exactly the same fate.

Extreme pacifism, or whatever it is you have, is just as bad as extreme violence. Get back to me when, God forbid, one of those victims is your wife, husband, daughter, son, father, mother, or best friend. You will be singing a different tune.


Oh Please, I live on the lower mainland and I am in the corrections field, I have been to all the Federal Institutions in BC and several in the US and if you think that the max security prisons are a country club you are so out of touch with reality I think its pointless for you to talk.

Perhaps a little investigation on cost would be appropriate before you make the statement I bolded.

It actually costs more to get from Charged with the crime to execution vs charged with a crime and given a life sentence w/o parole. Since the US is the closest country that uses the death penalty.

Here are links to the studies on cost of dp cases vs LWOP cases.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org

http://www.kndo.com/...-life-in-prison

http://www.deathpena...ction.php?id=13

The cost differences per year are in the millions, take california for instance," A 2011 study found that California has spent more than $4 billion on capital punishment since it was reinstated in 1978 and that death penalty trials are 20 times more expensive than trials seeking a sentence of life in prison without possibility of parole. California currently spends $184 million on the death penalty each year and is on track to spend $1 billion in the next five years."

Edited by CrippledCanuck, 20 July 2012 - 11:09 AM.


#37 Stefan

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 11:07 AM

Definitely a tragedy, but I'm missing the correlation as to why this is in Canucks talk?
You're out weighing the situation with the fact a Canucks fan died in the shooting.
Seriously, there's a thread on this in off topic. Sad thing to happen, but it doesn't need to be re posted in every section of the forum.

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#38 CrippledCanuck

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 11:08 AM

If its vengeance your out for which do you think causes more pain, distress etc for the accused, to be put out of his misery in a matter of minutes or to be either in solitary for years which has its own psychological consequences or to be released into the general pop with your crime known. The person in colorado who did this also severely injured children, offenders who commit crimes against children in prison are the lowest of the low and are treated as such by the other inmates, they do not have a very long life span in general pop and/or are subjected to inmate justice for years

#39 babych

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 11:08 AM

Well, you do have to admit, if someone else in the theater was armed, perhaps the shooter wouldn't have been so successful?

Also, there are stupid people in the US, but there are lots of stupid people here too. (A gunman in Toronto just shot like 19 people killing 2 of them) I still think Canada is a better place to live, but as a whole, Canadians are eerily similar in more ways than we care to believe. We just like to hate on the US because we have been living in their shadow for so long. (Not anymore!!! Hows that economy doing down there suckas??!!! lol) They are kind of like our older A-hole brother. When it comes down to it, they are still our closest friend.


I'm sorry, but this is really faulty logic. The sad fact is that when more guns are put into more hands then the likelihood of accidental shootings skyrocket. The cowboy mentality of "if everyone had a gun no one would shoot each other" is plain false.

The truth of the matter is that if someone in the crowd had a gun they would be more likely to shoot an innocent bystander than the actual gunman.
QUOTE
(shiznak@Jun 17 2008, 08:00 PM)
Kesler was lucky to score 20 this year since the injury to Morrison allowed him to do so.

I doubt Kesler would ever break 15 goals in his career again.

#40 CookieCrumbs

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 11:11 AM

How does executing him make us better than him?


71 innocent people were shot, 12 of those people died. The family and friends of these people have potentially had their lives ruined by this fu*king coward.

He is not innocent, and he doesn't deserve to breath the same air as the family and friends of these victims.

Life is a gift. James Holmes doesn't deserve his life.

Execute him.

#41 Deets

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 11:17 AM

I'm sorry, but this is really faulty logic. The sad fact is that when more guns are put into more hands then the likelihood of accidental shootings skyrocket. The cowboy mentality of "if everyone had a gun no one would shoot each other" is plain false.

The truth of the matter is that if someone in the crowd had a gun they would be more likely to shoot an innocent bystander than the actual gunman.


LOL, and where did you hear that from? If you are more likely to shoot innocent bystanders, why do they give guns to cops?

“If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
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#42 babych

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 11:31 AM

LOL, and where did you hear that from? If you are more likely to shoot innocent bystanders, why do they give guns to cops?

“If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
Dalai Lama XIV

Now you're being silly. There's a huge difference between cops (who are trained to use firearms), and the average citizen (who may receive minimal training, at best).

In an earlier post you cited Switzerland as an example of how the number of guns in a population doesn't mean more gun violence. What you failed to mention is that the Swiss government has compulsory military service for all men. After their military training they are required to keep their firearm in case they are called upon to defend their homeland.

This is a completely different scenario than the States. More lax gun regulations leads to more guns in the hands of people that are not really trained to use them.

Would having a cop in the theater lessened the number of lives lost? Very likely.
Would having an average, gun-toting citizen in the same situation yield the same result? Improbable at best. Again, unless that person practiced regularly at a gun range, they would be just as likely to miss and injure another innocent.
QUOTE
(shiznak@Jun 17 2008, 08:00 PM)
Kesler was lucky to score 20 this year since the injury to Morrison allowed him to do so.

I doubt Kesler would ever break 15 goals in his career again.

#43 jonnycanuck46

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 11:32 AM

How does executing him make us better than him?


dont push all that trash down our throats. They'd take his life to save many others, and to do justice to the countless lives who have been affected by his killing spree.

There's a time to be politically correct, and there's a time to use a bit of damn common sense. Eye for an eye, or in this case, eye for many, many eyes.

Edited by jonnycanuck46, 20 July 2012 - 11:34 AM.

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For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

#44 Tortorella's Rant

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 11:36 AM

71 innocent people were shot, 12 of those people died. The family and friends of these people have potentially had their lives ruined by this fu*king coward.

He is not innocent, and he doesn't deserve to breath the same air as the family and friends of these victims.

Life is a gift. James Holmes doesn't deserve his life.

Execute him.


Perhaps that's how the law should be enforced nowadays. Clearly people don't fear the current consequences. Maybe they will think twice next time before doing this because that when they're caught, and they will be, their life is also forfeit. And of course people are going to be like, 'Oh, but then we're no better than he is!' Yeah, well, with such penalties in place, maybe this event in Colorado last night never even happens.
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#45 jiffyjc12

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 11:37 AM

It sure does happen in Canada. Happened this past week in Ontario. The states also has several times the amount of people living there. Statistically it would happen more frequently down there. If it was just the amount of guns that made people violent, places like Switzerland would be the most violent place in the world. They are required by law that each household must carry a military rifle in their home.


Only members of the military are to keep their rifle in their home... Not all Swiss households are required to do so.
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#46 goalie13

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 11:37 AM

dont push all that trash down our throats. They'd take his life to save many others, and to do justice to the countless lives who have been affected by his killing spree.

There's a time to be politically correct, and there's a time to use a bit of damn common sense. Eye for an eye, or in this case, eye for many, many eyes.


That only works if they take him down while he's committing the crime. But now that he is in custody and unlikely to ever be free again, killing him will not save anyone.

As capital punishment doesn't appear to prevent anything, I prefer to let them rot in jail and think about what they have done rather than giving them the easy way out.
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#47 Super_Canuck

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 11:39 AM

This world is just getting worse. God bless the souls of all the victims

#48 canIcrytoo

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 11:39 AM

Good to see everyones TRUE colours come out. Gotta love the opinionated posts, that have nothing to do with hockey. We can have 5000 threads about luongo be locked within seconds of being posted, but one about death and mass shootings, hey lets let it run because it has everything to do with the green men and the Canucks. Well done admins, keep it classy.
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#49 Deets

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 11:45 AM

Now you're being silly. There's a huge difference between cops (who are trained to use firearms), and the average citizen (who may receive minimal training, at best).

In an earlier post you cited Switzerland as an example of how the number of guns in a population doesn't mean more gun violence. What you failed to mention is that the Swiss government has compulsory military service for all men. After their military training they are required to keep their firearm in case they are called upon to defend their homeland.

This is a completely different scenario than the States. More lax gun regulations leads to more guns in the hands of people that are not really trained to use them.

Would having a cop in the theater lessened the number of lives lost? Very likely.
Would having an average, gun-toting citizen in the same situation yield the same result? Improbable at best. Again, unless that person practiced regularly at a gun range, they would be just as likely to miss and injure another innocent.


My brother in law is a cop and I am a better shot than him. He only needs to qualify his shooting skills once a year, so in all likelyhood, people who go to the range more than that are just as good a shot as half of the cops out there.

My bet is you have never fired a gun and are just talking out of your ass.

#50 Special Ed

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 11:45 AM

Good to see everyones TRUE colours come out. Gotta love the opinionated posts, that have nothing to do with hockey. We can have 5000 threads about luongo be locked within seconds of being posted, but one about death and mass shootings, hey lets let it run because it has everything to do with the green men and the Canucks. Well done admins, keep it classy.


I was under the impression the girl in the OP was a Canucks fan.

So hence Canucks talk?

If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#51 jiffyjc12

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 11:45 AM

Quite honestly there is something many people are neglecting and that's the fact that this person is obviously mentally unstable. As are all of the mass murderers. To say that if we had tougher laws, such as capital punishment, these crimes may not happen is ignorant. These people don't think sanely before committing such acts.
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#52 iLLmAtlc

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 11:49 AM

Oh please... it's because of people like you that we will spend most of our lives paying taxes to support this garbage as they get a nice bed, a gym, and 3 meals a day.

This is why Vince Li is found not criminally responsible and is allowed to parade around on the streets again.

This is why Andres Breivik is now living in a nicer facility than I am and is going to have chess playing parters because it is "too cruel" to put him in isolation.

This is why Magnotta will face exactly the same fate.

Extreme pacifism, or whatever it is you have, is just as bad as extreme violence. Get back to me when, God forbid, one of those victims is your wife, husband, daughter, son, father, mother, or best friend. You will be singing a different tune.


Spoken like a guy who's never been to prison before, I'm sure. you think it's so awesome why don't you spend a few days there, or go on a tour or something?

The arguments against the death penalty aren't based on "extreme pacifism", but empirical evidence. here's 3 quick non extreme pacific reasons for why it's not a good idea

1. There is no empirical evidence that supports a relationship between death penalty and general deterrence
2. It is more expensive to have the death penalty than it is not to. You think keeping offenders alive is expensive? How bout doing that and paying massive costs to the legal system for appeals? New Jersey recently got rid of the death penalty because they had been pouring money into this pit and hadn't actually killed anyone since the 1960s or something.
3. Wrongful convictions. You really think worth it to put innocent people to death to satisfy our desire for revenge?

Look it sucks when this stuff happens but the death penalty isn't going to make it stop. It's just going to introduce a whole whack of other problems in addition to all of the killing that's going on, and for what? To satisfy our need for revenge? It might not even give victims' families closure because there are studies out there that find that too.
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#53 goalie13

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 11:51 AM

Good to see everyones TRUE colours come out. Gotta love the opinionated posts, that have nothing to do with hockey. We can have 5000 threads about luongo be locked within seconds of being posted, but one about death and mass shootings, hey lets let it run because it has everything to do with the green men and the Canucks. Well done admins, keep it classy.


So you've never had a conversation that started on one topic and then went off on a tangent? I think the OP's intent, as someone else mentioned, was to put it in Canucks talk based on the story of a Canuck fan being amongst the victims.

If you don't like the direction the discussion has gone you are free to report it to the moderating team. They don't have the time to read every thread. The Luongo threads that get locked are because someone that is tired of seeing 5000 Luongo threads makes the effort to report them.
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#54 MC Fatigue

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 11:54 AM

So sad. What is the answer? <I don't think anyone truly nows. Some good observations and ideas in this thread but would any truly prevent such a trajedy?
In the meantime, my heart goes out to the victims and their families.
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#55 Stefan

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 11:56 AM

I was under the impression the girl in the OP was a Canucks fan.

So hence Canucks talk?

It has absolutely nothing to do with the Canucks.
There's probably hundreds of thousands of Canucks fans... You're telling me anytime one of these people make the news it should go in Canucks talk? Christ.

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(1 Peter 2:18)

Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse.



 

#56 Guest_BuckFoston_*

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 11:58 AM

Wow, America is a stupid place with stupid owners.

I was watching Colbert a while back and he had an American on who wrote a book about Canada after having to stay there for a summer. He was amazed at how different it was. Colbert asked him for examples and he said, "Well you can't carry guns around there".

Colbert's reply was, "Wow, that is so unsafe, how would we protect ourselves."? :sadno:


Our society is a bad joke.


You do know he was kidding, right? That's his whole schtick since he left The Daily Show, to be a crazy conservative republican. He wasn't serious.

#57 canIcrytoo

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 12:00 PM

So you've never had a conversation that started on one topic and then went off on a tangent? I think the OP's intent, as someone else mentioned, was to put it in Canucks talk based on the story of a Canuck fan being amongst the victims.

If you don't like the direction the discussion has gone you are free to report it to the moderating team. They don't have the time to read every thread. The Luongo threads that get locked are because someone that is tired of seeing 5000 Luongo threads makes the effort to report them.


Ahhh ASSumptions, love when those get the best of us. Hey I befriended the mascot or a "superfan" for the maple leafs, I must be a fan of the Leafs now. And yes had plenty of convos that have started one way then ended up another. But, that being said....death, killing, and execution chat for several hours is acceptable of this board?
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#58 SN -Admin

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 12:01 PM

Please continue discussion in the off-topic thread:
http://forum.canucks...atre-in-denver/




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