TOMapleLaughs Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 So is Ed Willes hosting the pity party? Or one of you crybabies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I'm not going to take the time to address every point you brought up, but here's a couple: You say we don't know for sure that Gillis didn't present Weber with an offer sheet that he subsequently turned down. But if you were to read more than just the surface of what Gilman said, you would be able to surmise that it's pretty obvious they in fact made no such offer. Gilman said that they, the Canucks management, came to the conclusion that any offer they made to Weber would've been matched by Nashville. That is about as blatant as he could get without actually stating outright that they did not present Weber with any such offer sheet. Also, what Gilman did say was that they were prepared to make nearly any offer required to get him on their team. Well, the Flyers have almost achieved that feat, but it didn't take any offer, it only took one--as well as the moxy to make it. Edit: and now I see that King of the ES kindly pointed out that Gilman in fact did say that the Canucks made no such offer. Evidently, you didn't have to read beyond the surface of what Gilman said to see that you were wrong, you just had to read. Regarding the cost of ticket prices being affected by the supposedly exorbitant sum of money that it would cost to sign Weber, do you really believe that's what dictates the moves made by Gillis and the Aquilinis? Ticket prices for Canucks games have been outrageous for years, and yet revenues continue to increase. Why is that? Well, part of it has to do with the fact that there is virtually no competitive sports programming in Vancouver, but a bigger part is that people have believed for the past few years that the team will succeed when they go to watch games, during both the reular season and the playoffs. I very HIGHLY doubt that sentiment would diminish, and ticket sales would fall off, if Weber was signed and ticket prices rose to a certain degree. This is all assuming that ticket prices would necessarily have to increase due to the signing bonuses that it might have taken to sign Weber to a contract. We will never know if that would've ever been the case, because Gillis failed to pursue that option. Finally, regarding Weber's cap-hit possibly affectig the team's ability to feasibly sign players in the future, I will say to you what everyone needs to understand by now about this team. It sucks you say, and even to think it, but this team has NO FUTURE. The Canucks have no future stars in the works, and nearly all of the team's current crop of star players are at the same point of near-dropoff of their talents, meaning that there will be no point in time when the young players the team does have in the system will be able to play with and learn from our most talented teammates (i.e., the Sedins and Kesler) while they are still not too far removed the high points of their careers. What makes you and everyone else believe that we're immune to what has happened to every other Canadian franchise? A faithful fanbase, high revenues, and millionaire owners are things every other organization has, and yet they are suffering terrible times. This team's only opportunity to win likely within the next couple decades is now. And yet, Gillis chose to pass up a key piece in possibly making that happen by sitting back and watching what others had the courage to do. And for some reason you and many others on here support him in these decisions. That's pretty unbelievable to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted July 22, 2012 Author Share Posted July 22, 2012 All that says is they discussed offer sheets but couldn't come to an official offer. Does that mean they didn't say, "How about this?" and Weber didn't turn it down during the discussions. It's Botchford's statement anyways, versus anything Gilman or the Canucks have said they specifically didn't offer one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted July 22, 2012 Author Share Posted July 22, 2012 3. If you think we have no future, why would Weber even want to sign a deal with us similar to Philly's? Just because it's close to home? Clearly neither you or King believe that he's interested in that alone, so he'd be more likely to sign somewhere with young talent coming up in the roster - which you say isn't us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeMinisterBure Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Again, black and white, failure or success. There's no area for you where they can just be a team that was in the running but couldn't get him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gouda Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Hmmm, what teams has wiles been the GM of?...lots of teams lost out on schultz and weber....why single out vancouver? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 No. But then again, it wouldn't be anything out of the ordinary for tweets like that, and therefore not thread-worthy. These were STRONG, direct tweets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastaj Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I can summarize this whole thread for everyone: King of ES: "Gillis sucks because he didn't offer Weber an offer sheet. Even though Acquilini wanted him here. Everyone knows that Weber would have signed an offer sheet with Vancouver, had it been offered. Gillis is terrible - couldn't even get Schultz to come here either. Gillis has no balls, and can't make the bold moves to put this team over the top". Every other intelligent poster: "To offer Weber what Philly did would CLEARLY require the permission of ownership. Since that didn't happen, and the interviews state that the 'Canucks management team' (read: including the team owner) said they couldn't afford it, this is hardly just Gillis' fault. Yes, we agree that the Canucks would be better off with Weber, but we can't get everyone, and that's not always the fault of the GM." "Just because the Canucks want a player, doesn't mean he is automatically the Canucks to lose. We offered the exact same money to Schultz, and he chose Edmonton. What can you do? It's the players choice." "An RFA can and does meet with other teams. He's a free agent. It's been reported by multiple other team sources that RFA's have met with them. It's NOT tampering, and does NOT violate bylaw #15, because he's a free agent - just with a restriction that his former team can match offers" "How do you know Gillis didn't try to make a trade with Nashville? Most likely he did, but Nasvhille's asking price was ridiculous. Would you be willing to part with: Kesler, Edler, Raymond, Kassian, and 2 first round draft picks for Weber? That's likely the minimum package it would have taken, based on reports out of Philly as to what Nashville is asking of them." This thread is funny. Because Gillis "sucks" no matter what he does. a) He didn't submit an offer sheet - he sucks b )He submits an offer sheet, and Nashville matches - he sucks, because he didn't offer enough money c) Jason Garrison? He sucks, and Gillis sucks d) We'll never win a cup with Gillis, and I wish we had Holmgren. Even though Holmgren has never won a cup either, he's better because he's willing to throw around his owners money like a maniac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeMinisterBure Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I can summarize this whole thread for everyone: King of ES: "Gillis sucks because he didn't offer Weber an offer sheet. Even though Acquilini wanted him here. Everyone knows that Weber would have signed an offer sheet with Vancouver, had it been offered. Gillis is terrible - couldn't even get Schultz to come here either. Gillis has no balls, and can't make the bold moves to put this team over the top". Every other intelligent poster: "To offer Weber what Philly did would CLEARLY require the permission of ownership. Since that didn't happen, and the interviews state that the 'Canucks management team' (read: including the team owner) said they couldn't afford it, this is hardly just Gillis' fault. Yes, we agree that the Canucks would be better off with Weber, but we can't get everyone, and that's not always the fault of the GM." "Just because the Canucks want a player, doesn't mean he is automatically the Canucks to lose. We offered the exact same money to Schultz, and he chose Edmonton. What can you do? It's the players choice." "An RFA can and does meet with other teams. He's a free agent. It's been reported by multiple other team sources that RFA's have met with them. It's NOT tampering, and does NOT violate bylaw #15, because he's a free agent - just with a restriction that his former team can match offers" "How do you know Gillis didn't try to make a trade with Nashville? Most likely he did, but Nasvhille's asking price was ridiculous. Would you be willing to part with: Kesler, Edler, Raymond, Kassian, and 2 first round draft picks for Weber? That's likely the minimum package it would have taken, based on reports out of Philly as to what Nashville is asking of them." This thread is funny. Because Gillis "sucks" no matter what he does. a) He didn't submit an offer sheet - he sucks b )He submits an offer sheet, and Nashville matches - he sucks, because he didn't offer enough money c) Jason Garrison? He sucks, and Gillis sucks d) We'll never win a cup with Gillis, and I wish we had Holmgren. Even though Holmgren has never won a cup either, he's better because he's willing to throw around his owners money like a maniac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guesswhere Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I can summarize this whole thread for everyone: King of ES: "Gillis sucks because he didn't offer Weber an offer sheet. Even though Acquilini wanted him here. Everyone knows that Weber would have signed an offer sheet with Vancouver, had it been offered. Gillis is terrible - couldn't even get Schultz to come here either. Gillis has no balls, and can't make the bold moves to put this team over the top". Every other intelligent poster: "To offer Weber what Philly did would CLEARLY require the permission of ownership. Since that didn't happen, and the interviews state that the 'Canucks management team' (read: including the team owner) said they couldn't afford it, this is hardly just Gillis' fault. Yes, we agree that the Canucks would be better off with Weber, but we can't get everyone, and that's not always the fault of the GM." "Just because the Canucks want a player, doesn't mean he is automatically the Canucks to lose. We offered the exact same money to Schultz, and he chose Edmonton. What can you do? It's the players choice." "An RFA can and does meet with other teams. He's a free agent. It's been reported by multiple other team sources that RFA's have met with them. It's NOT tampering, and does NOT violate bylaw #15, because he's a free agent - just with a restriction that his former team can match offers" "How do you know Gillis didn't try to make a trade with Nashville? Most likely he did, but Nasvhille's asking price was ridiculous. Would you be willing to part with: Kesler, Edler, Raymond, Kassian, and 2 first round draft picks for Weber? That's likely the minimum package it would have taken, based on reports out of Philly as to what Nashville is asking of them." This thread is funny. Because Gillis "sucks" no matter what he does. a) He didn't submit an offer sheet - he sucks b )He submits an offer sheet, and Nashville matches - he sucks, because he didn't offer enough money c) Jason Garrison? He sucks, and Gillis sucks d) We'll never win a cup with Gillis, and I wish we had Holmgren. Even though Holmgren has never won a cup either, he's better because he's willing to throw around his owners money like a maniac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guesswhere Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 - Neither King of the ES nor I ever said we wanted Holmgren as a GM. However, he has shown that he is somehow able to able "throw around money like a maniac" by making huge offers to incredibly important players, inject talented youth into his team, and maintain a competitive franchise all at the same time. - You're not funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrrFour Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Sadly, that says more about you than me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guesswhere Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 You're right. I regretted my response as soon as I posted it. I was pissed off after I read your post. I apologize for picking on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrrFour Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I think one apect of this debate that MG supporters are missing is that the canucks stated in Botch's article that the sole reason for not submitting an offer sheet to weber is that they feel that Nashville will match it. If nashville does match then MG is off the hook. I think all this criticism of MG is premature. However, if Weber ends up in philly then MG screwed up big time since: - canucks had no problems with the long term contract, the cap hit and its heavy front load - Weber was interested in coming here since he met with us and only four other teams - it would only cost us four late first rounders - we need a franchise D man while our Sedins and Kesler window is open - cap concerns could be alleviated with some salary dumping like ballard, Lu. - we could acquire a power forward thu free agency (doan) or trade (move booth, another D, if necessary) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrrFour Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Good choice on the retraction though imo... Not sure I agreed with everything in that post but it was way more well thought out than the chicken little fare on display in so much of this thread...which I think was the more likely source of your frustration. Ok... I shut up now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guesswhere Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Ah no. That post was a meandering senseless mess. It was my source of frustration. I think people should proofread their posts to see if they make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Ed Willes has recently tweeted out some pretty direct messages about Mike Gillis regarding the whole Shea Weber ordeal. I apologize if this has been posted already, but these tweets are pretty strong and worthy of discussion. For the record, I think it's great when a local reporter has a strong opinion like this, and ISN'T AFRAID to share it. Here are the 3 tweets: The Canucks have already lost out on Justin Schultz. If they lose Shea Weber it's a massive body blow to the Gillis regime. Weber is a BC boy. There have been multiple reports that he wanted to play for the Canucks. This is a player Gillis had to sign. Sorry, Jason Garrison doesn't cut it. Ownership wanted Weber badly. This is a major story in the Canucks' world. Believe it. With emphasis on the 3rd tweet, this is pretty powerful, direct stuff from a local guy who's been around forever. Note, though, that I don't think Willes has EVER been a fan of Gillis, nor even this ownership, to be frank. He was always a STRONG Dave Nonis supporter, and I do recall a few articles written by him when Nonis was fired, digging into the Aquilini's' business, questioning their character even, and similarly doing the same to Gillis. Anyway, very interesting to see a direct calling-out by a media member. And for the record, I'm in full agreement with Mr. Willes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cup2013? Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Ed Willes has recently tweeted out some pretty direct messages about Mike Gillis regarding the whole Shea Weber ordeal. I apologize if this has been posted already, but these tweets are pretty strong and worthy of discussion. For the record, I think it's great when a local reporter has a strong opinion like this, and ISN'T AFRAID to share it. Here are the 3 tweets: The Canucks have already lost out on Justin Schultz. If they lose Shea Weber it's a massive body blow to the Gillis regime. Weber is a BC boy. There have been multiple reports that he wanted to play for the Canucks. This is a player Gillis had to sign. Sorry, Jason Garrison doesn't cut it. Ownership wanted Weber badly. This is a major story in the Canucks' world. Believe it. With emphasis on the 3rd tweet, this is pretty powerful, direct stuff from a local guy who's been around forever. Note, though, that I don't think Willes has EVER been a fan of Gillis, nor even this ownership, to be frank. He was always a STRONG Dave Nonis supporter, and I do recall a few articles written by him when Nonis was fired, digging into the Aquilini's' business, questioning their character even, and similarly doing the same to Gillis. Anyway, very interesting to see a direct calling-out by a media member. And for the record, I'm in full agreement with Mr. Willes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 ... Philadelphia is not worse off if Nashville matches. Weber stays in Nashville, which he's clearly OK with, as evidenced by signing the deal and giving NAS an option to watch. That's fine. Explain to me how Philadelphia is any worse off. They're not. In fact, don't be surprised to see Paul Holmgren go out and find someone else, pretty quickly. ... Mike Gillis SHOULD NOT CARE about hurting the feelings of other teams. This is a business. Sh!t, we need to send Mike Gillis to the Wally Buono School of Leadership, if this is at ALL a concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kesler_smash Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Shea Weber is overrated, same point totals as Edler last season with the only difference being plus minus numbers. Considering Nashville plays an extremely defensively oriented style of game this is no big surprise. Also consider Weber is paired with Suter who is also a Norris caliber D-man and I believe the difference between Edler and Weber is very marginal. I'm not saying Weber is not a great player...he clearly is but the idea that bringing him in would bring the cup is nothing but speculation. Anyways I'm just waiting a couple days for the Preds to match the offer sheet and this BS thread becomes obsolete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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