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Ed Willes' Tweets on Gillis/Weber


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#121 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 12:49 PM

I don't know what all you guys are arguing about, Nashville will match the offer sheet, they have no choice. He's not going anywhere for a while, so we weren't gonna get him anyway.

WIth something like 26 million being paid out before they can even trade him they may not. It may even come down to how much money they think they'll lose if they go back to being bottom feeders rather than a solid team.

Hard to say really what will happen.
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#122 Bodee

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 12:50 PM

Willis is one of the biggest idiots and least respected members of the media. No credibility.


He would fit right in on CDC then.
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#123 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 12:53 PM

He would fit right in on CDC then.

He probably already does.
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#124 lmm

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 01:03 PM

  • if the canuck's offered less Nashville would have matched
  • He is a journalist not an insider so he doesn't have as many sources as you think he does if he did he wouldn't be working for The Province.
  • refresh my memory was it Lundqvist who got his contract buried or Redden. Refresh my memory


huet
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#125 AnInconvenienceBrah

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 01:06 PM

Willes is barely a media member. I mean technically you should have a decent foundation of readers for that title shouldn't you?

Or is it like an non practicing catholic...

He's right though Garrison might not be enough. But the deal Shultz got would have been too much and Weber decided to sign an offer sheet. Gillis didn't lose him somebody else simply did something stupid to get him.


4 late first round picks for the best D man in the league signed long term at a reasonable cap hit is more of a under payment than a stupid move. Preds wanted B. Schenn and Couturier, 4 late 1st is a lesser return than losing both of those guys. IMHO Gillis did drop the ball with not making a move for Weber we have a short window and Weber would've added so much to winning right now.
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#126 VintageForever420

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 01:12 PM

Because Columbus wasn't in the running for Justin Schultz. Nor was Dallas. Etc. Most people thought that Schultz wanted to end up in Vancouver, so he was probably Gillis' to lose (which happened).

As for Weber, the tweets said that HE wanted to play in Vancouver, and that OWNERSHIP wanted him here. Again, this is a different situation than, say, the Washington Capitals missing out on him. HE wanted to play here, OWNERSHIP wanted him here, GILLIS didn't get it done, HOLMGREN did. See the difference?

I know it will never happen but can't we make an offer sheet for weber 2?
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#127 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 01:17 PM

I know it will never happen but can't we make an offer sheet for weber 2?

He's already signed the one from Philly. It's the Flyers or the Preds if they decide to match.

Edited by RUPERTKBD, 21 July 2012 - 01:17 PM.

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#128 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 01:20 PM

If the league invalidates the Philly offersheet, ($1mil actual salary for first few years?!?) that opens the door for more. But they won't invalidate it because Snider is in the inner circle and it won't change the overall Nashville-Weber situation.

Still, Poile and Holmgren go way back. You'd suspect that things were going on behind the scenes for awhile now.
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#129 Vancanwincup

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 01:22 PM

it doesnt matter if this guy is legit source or not, the canucks as an organization really screwed the pooch on this one....

GROW A PAIR AND MAKE A BOLD MOVE FOR GOD SAKES!!! 4 late first rounders for an all-world defenseman!??!!?!?!? WHERE DO I SIGN!?!?!?!?

gillis's patience really screwed him, the franchise and the fans big time on this one

Please do a little thinking before making a stupid posts. Philly would not have made that offer without having a young and talented core of players reaching their prime. Van can not afford to give up 4 first round draft picks regardless of their placing, for the opinion that one good d man could bring a Cup. Not to mention Weber contract could hamper the re- signing of Edler and Burrows, which would make Van weaker not better. There are more reasons not to do a deal like that then there is for doing.

You make it sound as though 4 first round picks is no big deal, but so much can be done with 4 first rounds picks, a franchise can be rebuilt with smart drafting or trading with 4 first round picks.

I would love to have Weber, but not for the price Philly is paying. May be good for Philly, but would more than likely in Van case hamper them in too many ways.

Edited by Vancanwincup, 21 July 2012 - 01:24 PM.

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#130 TyrEnkidu

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 01:23 PM

I think I might be the ONLY one on here that so far doesnt mind the direction the team is going...so far....the reason being is that as everyone knows chemistry is more valuable then a bag full of Crosby's and Nash's...I get the feeling that the team is becoming closer because of the Luongo issue and the fact the Mr Brittle is gone leaves me to believe that the locker room may just be getting a little tighter...this is the same team that got kicked around in the final 2 years ago because they failed to bring their hearts to the games...IF we were to develope THAT chemistry I believe we win the cup......just a sad little thought
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#131 elvis15

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 01:28 PM

It's a risk no doubt, but you sometimes you have to take a risk to get rewarded. Sure a 6-7 year deal with a 7M cap hit would be ideal in your fantasy land. But if he has the option of making 100M and securing himself and his family for the rest of his career, don't you think he would take that over a measly 6 year offer making less than half the money? Give me a break.
...

I've said from the start the owners/GMs are making themselves look like fools for giving out these deals with the CBA negotiations this summer. The players are understandably pissed the first offer from the NHL included a major cut in player revenues and a salary rollback, but they have a part in accepting these deals as well.

The NHLPA can't just throw their hands up in the air and say the offer was there so why not sign it. They have a responsibility to all players in their union to try and protect jobs. All these deals do is protect the jobs of the top percentage of players, while we see an increase in the lower level players looking for work and taking reduced contracts as a result.

I know a number of the teams aren't smart enough to keep from screwing themselves over, but the players are acting shortsightedly in signing these massive deals as well.

Everyone would have all been better off just to agree to not let things get out of hand and accept reasonable deals from teams players legitimately wanted to play for.
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#132 Drybone

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 01:33 PM

Hmmm, what teams has wiles been the GM of?...lots of teams lost out on schultz and weber....why single out vancouver?


I agree Joe. I think the offer sheet was so ridiculous that we just couldnt do it. I have no idea how the Flyers are going to make it work but they want the guy that bad.

Prongers contract is a plus 35 which means they have to LITR it every year. Its a nightmare in my opinion. Something will have to give.
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#133 Vancanwincup

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 01:34 PM

4 late first round picks for the best D man in the league signed long term at a reasonable cap hit is more of a under payment than a stupid move. Preds wanted B. Schenn and Couturier, 4 late 1st is a lesser return than losing both of those guys. IMHO Gillis did drop the ball with not making a move for Weber we have a short window and Weber would've added so much to winning right now.


It would have been a stupid move for Van. Philly has the young team to make the bold move Van does not. There would be no money left to get the top 6 forward that is needed.
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#134 elvis15

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 01:46 PM

According to Willes. I haven't seen a single thing from any other source that suggested this. My guess is that he's making assumptions (as usual)


I wouldn't go so far as to say a "massive" upgrade, but garrison is younger and more durable. Also, he's on the rise, whereas Salo is in the twilight of his career. Definitely an upgrade.


The difference is, at that point, the Canucks had plenty of extra Cap room. They don't have that luxury this time around.


Suter and Weber. For "proof", Nashville would still have to have one of them.

As far as who's more valuable, why don't you check out the list of Conn Smythe winners and see how many are goalies and how many are defensemen....

Finally, I have to wonder about Willes as a so-called sportswriter. He claims that Weber "wanted" to come here. (he provides no sources, but we'll leave that alone for the moment)

If Shea Weber truly wanted to become a Canuck, he could have accepted his QO or gone to arbitration. At the end of next year, he'd be a UFA and be able to sign wherever he wanted. He also could have made it clear to Poile that he would not be re-signing with the Preds after the year, thus forcing a trade.

Methinks this is just a case of Willes trying to reclaim a bit of relevance in the Vancouver media market.

+1 for all that - it reminded me of another point as well.

The argument has been made that both Suter and Weber are made better by having the other there. When they were split up in the past to try and balance the defence, they didn't perform as well. Now that they're apart the only thing we'll know for sure if they are individually as good as people have been saying they are. What if Nashville matches the offer sheet and the Preds still don't do well, or even worse?

The argument will then become about how they lost forward/scoring depth or how the other D couldn't step up. Maybe Weber still has a good year, but it's arguable Rinne's had as much impact on their success at even getting to the playoffs as either Suter or Weber.

It's similar to how Edler and Salo have played so well for us as a pairing in the last couple of years. Salo is definitely a steadying presence for anyone he plays with but his overall effectiveness and abilities offensively are declining. That balances out Edler's improving offence but he can look risky if he doesn't have a reliable partner to help cover. It's why he and Bieksa don't mesh as well, since they're both risk takers.

Weber is a mix of risk and defence, while Garrison is more of a safe choice in his style of play. Garrison as a result will likely fit better with Edler, or with someone like Weber than and Edler/Weber pairing. But that's my opinion, and I think there are more than a few people here not bothering to look at anything contrary to theirs even if it's supported by a valid argument.
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#135 King of the ES

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 01:54 PM

Weber is a mix of risk and defence, while Garrison is more of a safe choice in his style of play. Garrison as a result will likely fit better with Edler, or with someone like Weber than and Edler/Weber pairing. But that's my opinion, and I think there are more than a few people here not bothering to look at anything contrary to theirs even if it's supported by a valid argument.


Wow.

Convincing yourself that Garrison's a better fit for the Canucks than Weber would be.

I think I've officially seen everything on this board now.
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#136 Canucksfor2012

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 02:02 PM

It's funny, because Canucks fans are calling for Gillis' head because he didn't offersheet Weber.

Meanwhile, I've seen many Philly fans complaining about Holmgren's decision and how they're going to be in trouble within a couple of years, when their RFAs/UFAs need raises.
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Patrick Marleau - Steven Stamkos - David Backes

James Van Riemsdyk - Henrik Sedin - Teemu Selanne

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W: Michael Grabner, Dustin Penner

F: Logan Couture, Shane Doan

Benched: Marian Gaborik, Patrice Bergeron



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James Wisniewski - John-Michael Liles

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#137 enterin

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 02:06 PM

First of all, Webber is greedy...he would not be a true canuck. Seriously 100 mill no man is worth that... simply put if he wanted to play here he would be here but as I see it Greediness always shows its true colors... Weber has shown his and so did Schultz as far as I am concerned good teams are built on character and they dont have any...

Next
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#138 Bodee

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 02:09 PM

We were never going to get Weber. There are too many other teams with more cap room to sign him to a giant offer sheet, and Nashville has room to match any offer we could have made. It was unlikely he was going to sign a 1 year deal this offseason.

Signing Garrison was the smart move by Gillis. It's the safe move instead of going for Weber, and a massive upgrade on Salo. Our defence is stronger now than it was at the end of last season.


You say that on the basis of 1 decent season?

I really hope you are right but it looks to me like another throw of the dice to me. Only this one has some pretty serious financial consequences.

Since the SC Finals...........MG has brought in Bitz, Booth, Sulzer, Reinprecht, Kassian, Gragnani, Pahalsson, Garrison, Joslin and Mullen.
Pahlsson, Gragnani, Renprecht and Bitz have since moved on (a total waste of time)

Honestly if someone from Mars landed and learned everything about hockey and these names were then shoved in front of him.............would he associate them with a top 8 team never mind a team twice winners of the PT in the last 2 years.

To get these "lottery tickets" we have parted with 3 players who proved they COULD play. Sammy, Coho and Sulzer, then jettisoned two more in Salo and Rome who were strong players for this team.

Now I know we don't want to pay "silly money" but it seems to me we pay silly money for rolls of the dice. I have defended MG a lot on here but I am now seeing a pattern in his deals which is starting to worry me.

Quite honestly am I the only one who would have preferred to have done NONE of these deals? Does MG know what he is doing and in what direction he is trying to take us?
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#139 elvis15

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 02:12 PM

...
Refresh my memory - did Anaheim trade Giguere, or Niedermayer? Does Boston want to get rid of Thomas, or Chara?
...
Do you have any idea of the risks involved with that? What if Weber accepted his QO, then had a career-ending knee injury next year? Guess what Nashville's then on the hook for? $0! And Weber can then go start applying for jobs at pulp mills in Sicamous. If that kind of money is offered to you, you sign it. For all we know, Gillis could've offered less, and Weber probably would've also signed. The point is that Holmgrem offered him SOMETHING, while Gillis did not. So, of course, given the stakes, he's going to sign it.

You know what was intended with the other points and yet chose to ignore them in favour of your tunnel-vision view (where are the other opinions the confirm what Willes was reporting? would you turn down Burrows for someone like Modano now just because he started producing at a late age? etc). I'll focus on the above sections though.

What did Anaheim have a surplus of: starting goalies, or #1 defenceman? Obviously Anaheim felt Hiller was the one to go forward with, so much so they even waived Bryzgalov since they felt he was such an up and comer.

Which player in Boston had the largest effect on the hockey team outside of the rink? Thomas' outspoken personal opinion on politics and religion have far outweighed his usefulness to the team while Chara knows how to keep his mouth shut and play hockey.

Neither are a particularly compelling argument over who is more important to their team as a player considering who was on the trade block.

For the last part, I've mentioned this many times, but the Canucks did meet with Weber a week before he signed the offer sheet. They discussed their options and what they were willing to give, and at least one of two things resulted:
1. Weber didn't like what was offered.
2. What was offered would have likely been matched.

Neither situation alone would be Gillis' fault, yet you're happy to suggest Weber would have signed for less if only we'd tried. If you can't accept other people putting out scenarios about why signing such a long term, big money deal could be bad, then you should at least try and keep up with the facts of the situation in that Gillis did meet with Weber to discuss an offer sheet.
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#140 Tortorella's Rant

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 02:13 PM

I'll take Garrison and Doan (assuming we can actually sign him) over Weber and the forfeit of 4 first round picks which only decimates an already fairly weak prospect pool and overall young talent in this franchise.
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#141 elvis15

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 02:18 PM

Wow.

Convincing yourself that Garrison's a better fit for the Canucks than Weber would be.

I think I've officially seen everything on this board now.

Ok, so with the pairing of Weber and Suter, which of the two would you say plays a more controlled and steady game? And, remembering which side both play on (Weber left and Suter right), which would be best suited to play in the one gap in our top 4 alongside Edler?

As usual, you've jumped to your conclusion without understanding what was said.

I never said Garrison was better, either overall or in play alone, but considering his style of play along with the deal he accepted, I think Garrison is a better fit for this team to play alongside Edler. I also think Garrison would be a better fit than Edler to play alongside Weber, and said as much.

Of the two Nashville D on fit alone, I would have gone after Suter to play with Edler over Weber, and that's no knock on Weber for ability like you want to suggest I'm doing.
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#142 elvis15

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 02:22 PM

WIth something like 26 million being paid out before they can even trade him they may not. It may even come down to how much money they think they'll lose if they go back to being bottom feeders rather than a solid team.

Hard to say really what will happen.

That's the question. Will keeping Weber be enough to keep fans and get them to the playoffs? The extra revenue that comes with that, even if it's a 4 game sweep for each of the next 3-4 years ($2M per game in revenue, safe estimate of 15 games equals $30M they might not get if they rebuild), could be enough to convince them to match alone.

Having to work to get back fan buy-in may be enough to make the decision for them.
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#143 AnInconvenienceBrah

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 02:23 PM

It would have been a stupid move for Van. Philly has the young team to make the bold move Van does not. There would be no money left to get the top 6 forward that is needed.


Weber is a huge need or was a huge need for Vancouver, we need that elite #1 D man with size and grit to push us over the top, you could find a way to fit him in as you'd have a top 4 set

Hamhuis Weber
Garrison Bieksa
(OPEN) Tanev

you could move Edler which would bring back a mega return, move Ballard for cap space, with moving those 2 players you could return a top 6 winger and a 3rd pairing left sided D man and have a top prospect and picks coming back as well. Moving Luongo will clear up another 5 million. This is a move Vancouver could of made and should've as a guy like Weber don't become available and this was the one shot we had at him.

Edited by AnInconvenienceBrah, 21 July 2012 - 02:24 PM.

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#144 Raiun

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 02:31 PM

Does anyone even know if Weber is going to have a No-move clause in this contract if he signs it? If he doesn't have a NMC, he could be traded at any time, and might not be in Nashville OR Philly for the rest of his career... right?

Or is there something I'm missing?
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#145 Tortorella's Rant

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 02:31 PM

Weber is a huge need or was a huge need for Vancouver, we need that elite #1 D man with size and grit to push us over the top, you could find a way to fit him in as you'd have a top 4 set

Hamhuis Weber
Garrison Bieksa
(OPEN) Tanev

you could move Edler which would bring back a mega return, move Ballard for cap space, with moving those 2 players you could return a top 6 winger and a 3rd pairing left sided D man and have a top prospect and picks coming back as well. Moving Luongo will clear up another 5 million. This is a move Vancouver could of made and should've as a guy like Weber don't become available and this was the one shot we had at him.


You make it sound so feasible. Did you attempt this in NHL 12 first?
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#146 King of the ES

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 02:32 PM

For the last part, I've mentioned this many times, but the Canucks did meet with Weber a week before he signed the offer sheet. They discussed their options and what they were willing to give, and at least one of two things resulted:
1. Weber didn't like what was offered.
2. What was offered would have likely been matched.

Neither situation alone would be Gillis' fault, yet you're happy to suggest Weber would have signed for less if only we'd tried. If you can't accept other people putting out scenarios about why signing such a long term, big money deal could be bad, then you should at least try and keep up with the facts of the situation in that Gillis did meet with Weber to discuss an offer sheet.


Questions:

-if Weber didn't like what was offered, how is that NOT Gillis' fault?

-if Gillis shrugged his shoulders and said "meh, what's the point, NAS will just match, anyway, how is that NOT Gillis' fault?

I'm not happy to suggest that Weber would've signed for less, but I am happy to suggest that the first REASONABLE offer sent his way probably would've been signed, with "reasonable" being anything from a Suter-equivalent and up. And if Gillis wasn't prepared to offer anything of that magnitude, than the meeting was a complete waste of time, as Gillis is crazy if he thinks Weber would sign for less because he's a nice guy from Sicamous (that's why the player agent exists).

Both of these are directly Gillis' fault, yet you somehow say they're not. Explain.
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#147 Kesheniel

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 02:33 PM

Because Columbus wasn't in the running for Justin Schultz. Nor was Dallas. Etc. Most people thought that Schultz wanted to end up in Vancouver, so he was probably Gillis' to lose (which happened).

As for Weber, the tweets said that HE wanted to play in Vancouver, and that OWNERSHIP wanted him here. Again, this is a different situation than, say, the Washington Capitals missing out on him. HE wanted to play here, OWNERSHIP wanted him here, GILLIS didn't get it done, HOLMGREN did. See the difference?


Who is this guy that he has all that info? Did he directly talk to Weber and hear him say he WANTED to play in Vancouver? Similarly I find it hard to believe that he talked directly to the aquilini's and they told him they really wanted him. Where are these interviews? Cause right now this is all speculations. Media lie for stories and this is just that. Like it has been said before in this thread, tons of teams lost out of Weber, why single out Vancouver especially when we aren't even in super high need of him? Look at our defense then looks at Detroit and a Philly and a ton of other places that have way more cap to spend on defense... Of course we weren't gonna get him.

Edited by Kesheniel, 21 July 2012 - 02:34 PM.

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#148 King of the ES

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 02:35 PM

Ok, so with the pairing of Weber and Suter, which of the two would you say plays a more controlled and steady game? And, remembering which side both play on (Weber left and Suter right), which would be best suited to play in the one gap in our top 4 alongside Edler?


You want a controlled and steady game? I guess you're not happy with Aaron Rome's departure than, am I right?

For $4.6M and 6 years, I want something a lot more than "controlled and steady". BTW - would you call Christian Ehrhoff "controlled and steady"? He was pretty successful during his days here, no?
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#149 TheDave

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 02:38 PM

Holy redundant tweets batman
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#150 billabong

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 02:40 PM

Please do a little thinking before making a stupid posts. Philly would not have made that offer without having a young and talented core of players reaching their prime. Van can not afford to give up 4 first round draft picks regardless of their placing, for the opinion that one good d man could bring a Cup. Not to mention Weber contract could hamper the re- signing of Edler and Burrows, which would make Van weaker not better. There are more reasons not to do a deal like that then there is for doing.

You make it sound as though 4 first round picks is no big deal, but so much can be done with 4 first rounds picks, a franchise can be rebuilt with smart drafting or trading with 4 first round picks.

I would love to have Weber, but not for the price Philly is paying. May be good for Philly, but would more than likely in Van case hamper them in too many ways.


i dont think you understand the magnitude of a impact weber could have on the canucks....he isnt coming here through free agency anymore, its gonna haft to be through trade...what would rather give up...edler, tanev, booth etc... or 4 late first rounders....
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