cripplereh Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Sorry to say that Luo himself said he cant see himself here when they started Cory in the playoffs,also said he cant see himself here since we signed Cory , and saying he would like to be in Florida means YES he is asking to be traded.Luo is the only one that has said these things not the Canucks , meaning he will play here but wont be happy and will want out asap!I just dont get how you can say Luo never asked to be traded as anyone that says that is blind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 SVP is probably the best barometer of a goalie's performance. Amongst goalies who started > 50 games last year, the top mark in the league was Hank Lundqvist, who had .930; the worst being Corey Crawford, .903. Reading this in English, this means that Lundqvist stops 93.0 shots out of 100, while Crawford stops 90.3 shots out of 100. If a team will average 25 shots per game, that means that the difference between the best and the worst goalies in the NHL is roughly 2.7 goals over 4 games, or 0.67 goals per game. Compare that difference to the impact that Sid Crosby would have on your team, versus Dale Weise. No comparison. I'm whining because it hasn't been handled well. The smart thing would've been to trade Schneider at the deadline, or last summer, or whenever. He's lost value because the market knows that Luongo "wants to move on", because the Canucks have chosen Schneider. When you have something that you're trying to sell, it is worth less to the person acquiring it. In general, in a negotiation, whoever cares less will win. The Canucks don't want Luongo around, for very obvious reasons. And it's Gillis' fault for letting this situation brood to the point of explosion, which happened after we lost to the Kings. Schneider would have far more value than Lou, because, again, all you're looking at is their performance, and not the bigger picture. You're ignoring contract, you're ignoring age, you're ignoring other constrains - like that whole NTC thing. OK, then WHO? WHO are these other teams that would have an interest in Luongo, according to you?!? Excited to hear. Hopefully you don't evade this question like you did with my one on Mike Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Yeah I went through this with him the other day and he admitted that Luongo never publicly asked for a trade. Now he's back to making the false claim. If Luongo is not going to be the starter here obviously he would want out...public requests for a trade however are a fairy tale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiDeN Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 But that's not the point. Whether a list has been submitted or not is irrelevant. Gillis would likely "assume" (there's that key word again) that there are only a few teams worth even discussing with. These teams must have a need for a goalie, have money to afford the contract, and be a place that Roberto wants to uproot his family to move to. That's why this is a very complicated deal, which Gillis also made reference to on the radio, and that's why Roberto can't be valued as simply "an elite goaltender", which is seemingly all that matters to a guy like oldnews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Dealing Schneider at the deadline would have been just plain dumb. Particularly when you consider that he re-signed before becoming an RFA, in good faith, giving up his opportunity to evaluate offer sheets which in all likelihood would have given him a bigger payday. Gillis really mishandled that eh! Schneider's value is actually greater as a result, than it was before the deadline, and his performance after the deadline simply underlines the Canucks eventual decision. Your plan has the benefit of hindsight and is still shortsighted. Schneider would have more value than Lu - but that is irrelevent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Get real canuck fans Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 This is where you lose me. How is that possibly irrelevant? Had we have moved Schneider, we could've gotten a serious return. What that return would be exactly, I don't know, but what's obvious is that the return would be far higher had we have moved Schneider instead - a return that may have had an impact on our pathetic 2012 playoff showing. So here are the two scenarios, summed up:Trade Luongo: he controls where he goes, he is 33, he has a lifetime contract, he doesn't have the best of reputations, he has asked to be moved. Trading Luongo leaves our veteran team built to win now in the hands of a first-time starting goalie, and probably not very much back of significance from trading Luongo.Trade Schneider: we control where he goes, he is 26, he's on an ELC, he has a great reputation and would be the ideal snag for any team looking to proceed with a rebuild. Trading Schneider leaves us with the goalie that we've had since 2006, that has proven himself repeatedly, and whatever consideration that we'd get from trading Schneider, which would be very large. Where you and I clearly differ is on the value that we expect to receive from moving Lou. You seem to think that we're going to get a value for Luongo that will be effectively a hockey trade, like Hodgson for Kassian - I don't. You call Luke Schenn a "lowball offer", I think that's a trade that Gillis would need to sign ASAP, given the myriad of constraints surrounding this move. Weber is far better than Hal Gill, Schneider is not far better than Luongo. Very simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 This is where you lose me. How is that possibly irrelevant? Had we have moved Schneider, we could've gotten a serious return. What that return would be exactly, I don't know, but what's obvious is that the return would be far higher had we have moved Schneider instead -a return that may have had an impact on our pathetic 2012 playoff showing. So here are the two scenarios, summed up:Trade Luongo: he controls where he goes, he is 33, he has a lifetime contract, he doesn't have the best of reputations, he has asked to be moved. Trading Luongo leaves our veteran team built to win now in the hands of a first-time starting goalie, and probably not very much back of significance from trading Luongo.Trade Schneider: we control where he goes, he is 26, he's on an ELC, he has a great reputation and would be the ideal snag for any team looking to proceed with a rebuild. Trading Schneider leaves us with the goalie that we've had since 2006, that has proven himself repeatedly, and whatever consideration that we'd get from trading Schneider, which would be very large. Where you and I clearly differ is on the value that we expect to receive from moving Lou. You seem to think that we're going to get a value for Luongo that will be effectively a hockey trade, like Hodgson for Kassian - I don't. You call Luke Schenn a "lowball offer", I think that's a trade that Gillis would need to sign ASAP, given the myriad of constraints surrounding this move. Weber is far better than Hal Gill, Schneider is not far better than Luongo. Very simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 NOT RELEVANT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiDeN Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Completely relevant as I'm informing him that this conversation has already happened and you went down the same downward spiral in logic. There is something being claimed that is false. Rather than accept that it gets danced around and the argument gets twisted for some foolish pride or some refusal to back down. There is nothing wrong with being wrong. Don't you get tired of the arguing and giant leaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 I guess in my head "public requests" and hinting like Dora are the same thing. "Do you see the impending trade? Where? There it is, Muy Bien!" I'm sorry if I sound so absolute, but to me his statements clearly indicate his wishes, and the rest of the league isn't stupid. They know what's up. He hasn't refused to play or anything, and he isn't going to be malicious to the team, but given the circumstances he would prefer to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Are you directing this at me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smurf47 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 This is where you lose me. How is that possibly irrelevant? Had we have moved Schneider, we could've gotten a serious return. What that return would be exactly, I don't know, but what's obvious is that the return would be far higher had we have moved Schneider instead - a return that may have had an impact on our pathetic 2012 playoff showing. So here are the two scenarios, summed up:Trade Luongo: he controls where he goes, he is 33, he has a lifetime contract, he doesn't have the best of reputations, he has asked to be moved. Trading Luongo leaves our veteran team built to win now in the hands of a first-time starting goalie, and probably not very much back of significance from trading Luongo.Trade Schneider: we control where he goes, he is 26, he's on an ELC, he has a great reputation and would be the ideal snag for any team looking to proceed with a rebuild. Trading Schneider leaves us with the goalie that we've had since 2006, that has proven himself repeatedly, and whatever consideration that we'd get from trading Schneider, which would be very large. Where you and I clearly differ is on the value that we expect to receive from moving Lou. You seem to think that we're going to get a value for Luongo that will be effectively a hockey trade, like Hodgson for Kassian - I don't. You call Luke Schenn a "lowball offer", I think that's a trade that Gillis would need to sign ASAP, given the myriad of constraints surrounding this move. Weber is far better than Hal Gill, Schneider is not far better than Luongo. Very simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TowelPower12 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Actually. last year, Schneider was way better than Lou, in every conceivable category ! You build championship teams from the goal out. After the last 2 post seasons, the team has not prospered in the playoffs under Lou.TManagement thinks its time to change diection, thus, Lou is being traded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 In your head you can believe whatever you'd like but the reality is saying Luongo has publicly requested a trade is purely and simply false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Actually. last year, Schneider was way better than Lou, in every conceivable category ! You build championship teams from the goal out. After the last 2 post seasons, the team has not prospered in the playoffs under Lou.TManagement thinks its time to change diection, thus, Lou is being traded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bd71 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Actually. last year, Schneider was way better than Lou, in every conceivable category ! You build championship teams from the goal out. After the last 2 post seasons, the team has not prospered in the playoffs under Lou.TManagement thinks its time to change diection, thus, Lou is being traded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 I think most people agree with this point. Schneider is the way to go because he is better, younger and cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 OK, then Cody Hodgson didn't request a trade either, right? All he said was that he didn't want to talk about the past! Do you admit/concede that Cody Hodgson didn't ask for a trade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 I think most people agree with this point. Schneider is the way to go because he is better, younger and cheaper. Where it gets confusing is that guys like oldnews still think that Luongo will bring back a blockbuster package. He's been replaced on his own team (that has only had one season past the second round in this current era) but he's still one of the best in the legue? Bob MacKenzie said waaaaay back in June there was not much trade market for Luongo and he was savaged on here. He was also right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera82 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 we didn't do much better with Schneider in net against the Kings. Offense is our problem in the playoffs not defense or goaltending. Schneider 1.33 GAA and we still lose 2 of 3 games what does that tell you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.