King of the ES Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Vinny's been captain for so long and Gillis likes leadership, he's won the Cup before AND only two seasons ago he was able to elevate his game in the playoffs to over 1 p.p.g.; with the talented group around, who's to say he can't do so again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiDeN Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I'm not saying that at all - but nice inference. The point is that it's possible. Every conceivable event has a probability. For you all to just assume that Schneider's numbers would hold up under a 65-game workload, in his rookie season as a starter, is very optimistic (though that appears to be the name of the game around here - certainly the most optimistic sports fans who's team has never won a championship). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blömqvist Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 My problem this whole time is the position that Mike Gillis has put us in. We're being forced to move someone, which is not ideal, ever. And basically, we're being forced to move someone because our GM didn't deal with the obvious two-goalie problem that we had to eventually deal with. And yes, I know, Luongo's never publicly said that he wants a trade, but it is obvious to everyone involved, and to every hockey fan on earth, that he is getting moved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera82 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 schneider + the talented canucks skaters will get us into the playoffs where schneider will perform consistently better than luongo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera82 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Seems much more likely that Lu will give us the same playoff goaltending or worse that he has gave us the last 4 playoffs, which is not good enough. Cory's numbers will likely get a bit worse as well and drop a few points, but the gap between him and Lu will continue to grow, with Cory being better than Lu now in my opinion. 3 years ago Cory struggled in his 1st few starts while Lu was at an elite level,,,2 years ago he was the backup to Lu and was almost at Lu's level but Lu was certainly better. Cory was much better than Lu last season, and I feel after Lu's collapsing in the SCF his ego took a huge hit and will not recover and lead to him going from Vezina finalist to very average at best. Outside of Vancouver nobody is going to remember his 2 shutouts because all they will remember is TT outplaying Lu by miles and Lu's epic meltdowns in Boston. Boils down to what our best guesses are for the future. Many believe Lu has something to prove and will be a Vezina candidate again. I say he should have wanted to prove himself this year after letting himself and the team down in the finals but had a poor season. Some think Cory will not be able to handle the #1 spot and Canucks be lucky to make the playoffs. With the other teams in our division getting stronger the chances of us winning the Presidents Trophy is very slim with either Lu or Cory. I think Cory will play at elite level and be a Vezina candidate in the very near future, and will give the Cancuks much more CONSISTENT playoff goaltending than Lu has given us for the last 5 years. Cory will give us solid playoff goaltending like last year for the next 10 years(not under 2 good but just very solid play), I do not think Lu will gave us solid playoff goaltending since 06-07 and the wheels have fell off his bus and he will only get worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera82 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I agree with most everything here. In no way am I saying that Cory Schneider is a bad goalie; I'm a huge fan. He's good. Might be better than Luongo right now. But I think that for this team, in this stage, the logical move would've been to trade Schneider a long time ago (for a pretty penny), and focus on Luongo. My problem this whole time is the position that Mike Gillis has put us in. We're being forced to move someone, which is not ideal, ever. And basically, we're being forced to move someone because our GM didn't deal with the obvious two-goalie problem that we had to eventually deal with. And yes, I know, Luongo's never publicly said that he wants a trade, but it is obvious to everyone involved, and to every hockey fan on earth, that he is getting moved. Say what you want about Schneider and his future playoff performances, but they're really empty words, because he hasn't been there yet. Did you, or anybody else, foresee Luongo's epic playoff failures when he was acquired by Florida? Of course not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Why is it more probable that Schneider will change his trajectory by taking a nose dive once he starts more games than it is that Luongo will play well in the playoffs after not playing so well in his last two series? Luongo has not been this stellar elite amazing goalie that we were promised in the playoffs. So why is it more likely that he will now than it is that Schneider will continue to play great and consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Say what you want about Schneider and his future playoff performances, but they're really empty words, because he hasn't been there yet. Did you, or anybody else, foresee Luongo's epic playoff failures when he was acquired by Florida? Of course not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Is that like a lot of Canuck fans on this board, who think that every year it's "the" year? Same results for 42 years, no? =/-...not indicative that Dan Hamhuis is a better player than Dion Phaneuf (which, IMO, he is definitely not). And no, I'm not a Leafs fan. Just a guy who's free of bias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Well KoES - you're looking 20/20 in hindsight at them now, and you're still going on and on that Gillis should have moved Schneider and kept Luongo? With this team and this window blah blah... to what purpose? Epic playoff failures? Give it up. Gillis made the right decision and you're floundering around in contradictions trying to claim otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 People will clamor for Luongo to come back if there's any sign of weakness. Say what you want, but it's almost impossible for this to not affect a guy's psyche. And with the division improving, the Oilers and the Wild getting better, the Flames being a major wild card, and with our guys (quite frankly) getting older, there are a lot of things converging with this team that could lead to an epic disaster if this season ever takes off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Yes and yes. If Schneider is traded, we still have ol' reliable Louie, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 This is one of your best yet - that Hamhuis is definitely not a better player than Phaneuf. That one is very rich in nitrogen - you should use it to fertilize some of your other fruitless arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L'Orange Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I've never said that either outcome is more probable, but nobody is considering the possibility that maybe Schneider becomes the starter and just doesn't play as good as we've expected him to, based on these last two years as our backup. If you think that the job of a starting goaltender is easier than that of a backup goaltender, you are nuts. This is Vancouver. Schneider's going to become the first target of abuse when he plays a bad game, which will happen. People will clamor for Luongo to come back if there's any sign of weakness. Say what you want, but it's almost impossible for this to not affect a guy's psyche. And with the division improving, the Oilers and the Wild getting better, the Flames being a major wild card, and with our guys (quite frankly) getting older, there are a lot of things converging with this team that could lead to an epic disaster if this season ever takes off. I'm the only one saying it, but it's a possibility. And maybe a stronger one than what you might think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Duh - which one is it? "ol' reliable Louie" or Mr. Epic playoff failures? Flip flop, flip flop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L'Orange Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 How's this for fruitless. Even though Hamhuis has played in 77 more career games, Phaneuf has:More than double the amount of career goalsNearly 100 more total points He's also been an NHL All-Star 3 times, which is 3 times more than Hamhuis. And let's not forget the numerous bone-crunching, highlight-reel hits that were a regularity when he first broke into the league (the new No-Hitting League has had an adverse effect on Phaneuf's development). Since "Church Appearances" isn't a measurable amongst NHL players, explain to me exactly on what basis that you think Hamhuis is a better player than Phaneuf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L'Orange Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 If you read what I wrote, all I did was acknowledge somebody else's assertion of Luongo's playoff failures. The Sedin's, Burrows, Kesler, they've all failed big-time in the playoffs, too, does that mean that they also should all be traded? My point was that Schneider's not immune to an epic playoff failure himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L'Orange Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 If you read what I wrote, all I did was acknowledge somebody else's assertion of Luongo's playoff failures. The Sedin's, Burrows, Kesler, they've all failed big-time in the playoffs, too, does that mean that they also should all be traded? My point was that Schneider's not immune to an epic playoff failure himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I truly believe that above all else you want to see the Canucks fall on their face this season (if it happens). Why? I don't know. Maybe you are a troll of a Leafs fan, or maybe you are just plain bent on seeing Gillis get fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 How's this for fruitless. Even though Hamhuis has played in 77 more career games, Phaneuf has:More than double the amount of career goalsNearly 100 more total points He's also been an NHL All-Star 3 times, which is 3 times more than Hamhuis. And let's not forget the numerous bone-crunching, highlight-reel hits that were a regularity when he first broke into the league (the new No-Hitting League has had an adverse effect on Phaneuf's development). Since "Church Appearances" isn't a measurable amongst NHL players, explain to me exactly on what basis that you think Hamhuis is a better player than Phaneuf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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