Plaguez Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 If I'm not mistaken Karl Alzner was on Washington's top pair with Mike Green, was he not? If we traded Luongo for Alzner+, we would be having a very capable top 4 defenceman playing on our bottom pair if we traded Ballard or Tanev (or both). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 The trade was Luongo and Raymond for Alzner and 1st. To me a top pairing d-man still doesn't carry the value of an elite goalie. Van fans are too disenchanted with not winning it all to see our own goalie's skill. If he was on any other team we would be convetting Luongo. Alzner for Luongo isn't a good deal. Alzner and a first might be, but including Raymond doesn't make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 As to Markstrom, again it's all hope. 7 games? Remember my arguments vis-a-vis Holtby and Reimer? At least the latter two have been in the fire a bit longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 This whole recent debate started with me and oldnews debating the strength and/or weakness of the goaltending market. He thinks we're in a strong position as the seller of the best goalie available, I think we're in a weak one because there just aren't many buyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TmanVan Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 What I want to know is why has everyone stopped talking about New Jersey? I don't think anyone expects the whole season to be lost due to a lockout, and surely with Brodeur thinking long and hard about calling it quits this summer the chances of him coming back AGAIN next season seem highly unlikely. If it does end up being a short season, say regular season starting mid december - early january , then the Canucks only have to wait less than 2 months with Lou on the roster before the trade deadline. Now before all the bitter idiots cough..... king of es.... cough come back and say that's stupid New Jersey is broke and can't get anybody in the building as it is why would they get Luongo?? I ask, where would they be without Brodeur or Luongo next year??? The way I look at it they can't afford not to have Luongo if Brodeur retires because being a bottom feeder would put them in an even worse spot financially with no fan support at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry_Wilkins Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 What I want to know is why has everyone stopped talking about New Jersey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 What I want to know is why has everyone stopped talking about New Jersey? I don't think anyone expects the whole season to be lost due to a lockout, and surely with Brodeur thinking long and hard about calling it quits this summer the chances of him coming back AGAIN next season seem highly unlikely. If it does end up being a short season, say regular season starting mid december - early january , then the Canucks only have to wait less than 2 months with Lou on the roster before the trade deadline. Now before all the bitter idiots cough..... king of es.... cough come back and say that's stupid New Jersey is broke and can't get anybody in the building as it is why would they get Luongo?? I ask, where would they be without Brodeur or Luongo next year??? The way I look at it they can't afford not to have Luongo if Brodeur retires because being a bottom feeder would put them in an even worse spot financially with no fan support at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossi Vaananen Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 The trade was Luongo and Raymond for Alzner and 1st. To me a top pairing d-man still doesn't carry the value of an elite goalie. Van fans are too disenchanted with not winning it all to see our own goalie's skill. If he was on any other team we would be convetting Luongo. Alzner for Luongo isn't a good deal. Alzner and a first might be, but including Raymond doesn't make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 What I want to know is why has everyone stopped talking about New Jersey? I don't think anyone expects the whole season to be lost due to a lockout, and surely with Brodeur thinking long and hard about calling it quits this summer the chances of him coming back AGAIN next season seem highly unlikely. If it does end up being a short season, say regular season starting mid december - early january , then the Canucks only have to wait less than 2 months with Lou on the roster before the trade deadline. Now before all the bitter idiots cough..... king of es.... cough come back and say that's stupid New Jersey is broke and can't get anybody in the building as it is why would they get Luongo?? I ask, where would they be without Brodeur or Luongo next year??? The way I look at it they can't afford not to have Luongo if Brodeur retires because being a bottom feeder would put them in an even worse spot financially with no fan support at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TmanVan Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 As oldnews pointed out, Brodeur's 2 year deal is a bit of a speedbump in that regard. Both he and Hedberg were 35+ UFAs coming into the summer and they both got 2 year deals so the Devils will likely stand pat for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I failed to do some research, not sure why but I assumed Brodeur only re-uped for 1 year. That changes alot.... I guess the situation I laid out only works if Brodeur completely shats the bed and has a Roloson style slide in his play this year, or if we wait it out until next summer ( which I hope we don't of course) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CookieCrumbs Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Great debate in my opinion. I don't see why people are complaining about it. This is exactly what these boards are for. Well written and well thought out posts on both ends. Wrong or right is really irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewdog Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I never realized how little most teams are paying for their goaltending. I just went through Capgeek, team by team. Only a couple teams pay barely more than $8M. Most seem to be in the $4-6M range, but quite a few pay less than $4M and some are even below $3M. It's impressive how complete our roster is, considering how much we spend on our current goalies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunningWild Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I never realized how little most teams are paying for their goaltending. I just went through Capgeek, team by team. Only a couple teams pay barely more than $8M. Most seem to be in the $4-6M range, but quite a few pay less than $4M and some are even below $3M. It's impressive how complete our roster is, considering how much we spend on our current goalies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera82 Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 The trade was Luongo and Raymond for Alzner and 1st. To me a top pairing d-man still doesn't carry the value of an elite goalie. Van fans are too disenchanted with not winning it all to see our own goalie's skill. If he was on any other team we would be convetting Luongo. Alzner for Luongo isn't a good deal. Alzner and a first might be, but including Raymond doesn't make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffraff Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I think the factors pretty much even out and in the end the Canucks make a reasonable hockey trade for Luongo - not an earth shattering blockbuster, and not table scraps - a reasonable hockey trade. I also think you are overselling this 'perception outside Vancouver' thing. It doesn't really matter what some fans perceive - what matters is what Burke/Nonis, Tallon, Lowe, McPhee, etc think, and I doubt their perception is as shallow as stereotypes that fans hold. But the perception that he is a guy who will never win a championship will only deepen if he winds up in Toronto haha! On the other hand, he could very well get their sorry asses into the postseason finally. Gawd that would suck. Imagine being largely responsible for enabling Leafs playoff hockey. Would rather dump Luongo for table scraps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 What I want to know is why has everyone stopped talking about New Jersey? I don't think anyone expects the whole season to be lost due to a lockout, and surely with Brodeur thinking long and hard about calling it quits this summer the chances of him coming back AGAIN next season seem highly unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 That elite goalie you're talking about is 33, and will be 43 by the end of his contract. These are factors to consider when trading for anyone. Alzner was a captain for u20 Canada one year, a pretty big accomplishment that puts his name up there with names like Stevens and Neidermeyer. Alzner would be a fantastic return for Luongo alone but adding in a 1st in what is to be a very deep year and we're having our way with Washington. Not to mention we dump Raymond and his cap hit, lets face it he has no intrinsic value anyway. I stand by my proposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACIC Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 We need to get a good return, and for that you need to add a few parts to the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 That elite goalie you're talking about is 33, and will be 43 by the end of his contract. These are factors to consider when trading for anyone. Alzner was a captain for u20 Canada one year, a pretty big accomplishment that puts his name up there with names like Stevens and Neidermeyer. Alzner would be a fantastic return for Luongo alone but adding in a 1st in what is to be a very deep year and we're having our way with Washington. Not to mention we dump Raymond and his cap hit, lets face it he has no intrinsic value anyway. I stand by my proposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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