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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread (Keep all discussion here)


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#391 sirensong

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 07:54 PM

Sorry. Had a derp moment. Meant to say Raymond < Bjugstad/Petrovic


No you didn't that was your proposal and your explenation of how you broke it down. Your just trying to save face.
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#392 TmanVan

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 08:00 PM

To Vancouver: Shawn Matthias + Alex Petrovic and/or Nick Bjugstad + 2013 1st

To Florida: Roberto Luongo + Mason Raymond

Luongo = Matthias & 1st
Raymond < Bjugstad/Petrovic


It doesn't really make sense to say Petrovic and/or Bjugstad.... they're values are nowhere near close.

If Florida is reluctant to give up Bjugstad in a Luongo deal what makes you think throwing Raymond into the mix will get you Bjugstad, Matthias,and a 1st?

If a deal with the players you mentioned is being discussed it probably more realistly goes like this:

Gillis asks for Bjugstad/ 1st/ Matthias for Luongo

Tallon counters with Petrovic/1st/ Matthias for Luongo and Schroeder

Gillis agrees to Luongo and Schroeder, and heck... they'll even throw in Raymond! If Petrovic is upgraded to Bjugstad

Tallon see's Bjugstad as the next Rich Nash type player..... and here we are today, still with no deal.
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#393 Gooseberries

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 08:10 PM

Just because 1 person out of thousands agrees with you doesn't make your idea any less stupid

do you just monitor whatt I post all day so you can make your self feel like a success by being a dbag?
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The Sig lord


#394 G-52

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 08:12 PM

do you just monitor whatt I post all day so you can make your self feel like a success by being a dbag?


Self important much?

It was a coincidence that you happened to post as I was reading updates after work. The content of your post was just as stupid as the first one, so you received a similar response.
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#395 GHL

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 08:47 PM

Hypothetically, if we sign Doan, the rest of the league's GMs will lowball us for sure. We won't be getting full value for Lu if he isn't moved before signing Doan.


BS
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#396 Grave

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 08:58 PM

Mobile
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2nd place is the 1st loser

#397 Noheart

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 09:01 PM

BS


You know it all man, at least I finally figured out who God prays to.

He has a valid point because if MG signs Doan, a salary dump is now mandatory before the start of the season. That makes a big difference... Clearly.
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BEASTLY!!!

#398 ccc44

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 09:08 PM

BS

Nope its not BS , The more we are up against the salary cap or over the less bargaining power we have ,You like most fanboys forget to look at it from the other side too.

Other GMs are going to look for every advantage to give up the least amount of value in a trade and not whats best for the canucks
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SHOTS ! SHOTS ! SHOTS !

#399 hockeyfan90

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 09:53 PM

Florida Doesn't like the deal Luongo + Raymond + Schroeder + 1st for Matthias and Bjugstad.

Their counter offer was Luongo + Hansen + Schroeder + pick for Matthias and Bjudstad. They're really high on Bjudstad.
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#400 LUU4LIFE

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 09:54 PM

@JasonGarrison52: Dano-mite is in Vancity! We need the missing piece.. @ScottieUpshall http://t.co/Fh2b5GDd
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#401 Everybody Hates Raymond

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 10:14 PM

@JasonGarrison52: Dano-mite is in Vancity! We need the missing piece.. @ScottieUpshall http://t.co/Fh2b5GDd

Do want
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#402 oldnews

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 10:41 PM

Florida Doesn't like the deal Luongo + Raymond + Schroeder + 1st for Matthias and Bjugstad.

Their counter offer was Luongo + Hansen + Schroeder + pick for Matthias and Bjudstad. They're really high on Bjudstad.


Who is the source speaking for "Florida" here?

I don't like that deal either. It is a gross overpayment. Luongo and Schroeder alone are an overpayment for Bjugstad and Matthias, let alone throwing in a 1st and Raymond. Schroeder is a more highly touted prospect than Matthias - I will be shocked if Schroeder reaches the age of 24 without a 10 goal, 24 point season. Matthias may make a nice addition for the third line (a sound two way player, but 24 points and 60 hits are not marquis numbers) - he is not a principle worth Schroeder, Raymond and a 1st, let alone the ridiculous idea that that wasn't enough, and that Hansen be included. Crazy talk. I doubt it reflects any real conversations MG and Tallon are having.
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#403 MoneypuckOverlord

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 10:52 PM

Florida Doesn't like the deal Luongo + Raymond + Schroeder + 1st for Matthias and Bjugstad.

Their counter offer was Luongo + Hansen + Schroeder + pick for Matthias and Bjudstad. They're really high on Bjudstad.


terrible. I rather wait out until the season starts. Thats pathetic. I hope that is not true.
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Players Nikolaj Ehlers have been compared too by the fan base of the Vancouver Canucks.

 

1 Pavel Bure

2 Markus Naslund

3 Nathan Mackkinon

4 Jonathan Drouin.

5 Jonathan Tavares

 

http://bleacherrepor...d-top-prospects

combine results.  Ehlers 5'11 162 lbs of solid rock.  


#404 oldnews

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 10:56 PM

@JasonGarrison52: Dano-mite is in Vancity! We need the missing piece.. @ScottieUpshall http://t.co/Fh2b5GDd


If Doan signs elsewhere, I like Upshall's game - he's never seemed to get any traction in the NHL, but could be quite a good risk if he ever manages to play a full season. I wouldn't mind taking a risk on him - he is a right wing, physical and skilled - and his cap hit of 3.5 million should make him a relative add in/ salary dump. I'd rather take him as a third piece in a deal than get Versteeg as the priniciple - something like Upshall, Matthias and Petrovic might make sense if Doan goes elsewhere.
I like the idea of Bjugstad, but I think his value is getting blown out of proportion - who knows, Gaunce could turn out to be the better player.
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#405 Pears

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 11:01 PM

If Doan signs elsewhere, I like Upshall's game - he's never seemed to get any traction in the NHL, but could be quite a good risk if he ever manages to play a full season. I wouldn't mind taking a risk on him - he is a right wing, physical and skilled - and his cap hit of 3.5 million should make him a relative add in/ salary dump. I'd rather take him as a third piece in a deal than get Versteeg as the priniciple - something like Upshall, Matthias and Petrovic might make sense if Doan goes elsewhere.
I like the idea of Bjugstad, but I think his value is getting blown out of proportion - who knows, Gaunce could turn out to be the better player.

And Upshall almost put the Panthers into the 2nd round too.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#406 TowelPower12

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 06:53 AM

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#407 stawns

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 07:30 AM

Mobile


I must have the only mobile phone around that takes me to the last page........I never have any issues
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#408 nzan

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 07:33 AM

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This.
I sincerely hope that when Luongo leaves, Vancouver collectively says "We realize that it's time to part ways, but you were awesome. Good luck in the future, we'll miss you, thank you for everything."
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#409 Boudrias

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 07:43 AM

The radio program that broke the news on Doan also said, he was in Vancouver because of "new developments". This could be in regards to Phoenix but it could also be in regards to Lu and the Nucks. What if MG has a deal ready to go if Doan signs? If so, the arguments about MG being vulnerable and cap room for Doan are gone. Maybe they advised Doan of this and that is why he chose to meet with management when he originally wasn't going to?

Do you mean that Doan was not planning to meet with the Canucks on this trip or at all in his selection process? Gilman at one point stated that he had been in phone contact with Doan a number of times and Doan's agent confirmed this. He met with the NYR and Philly but I did not read anything about Montreal or Pitt. SJ isn't mentioned much but they were also in the picture.

I was happy to hear about the Van meeting especially with ownership attending the dinner. Hoping that the Canuck group made a serious impression on Doan. Some are sayin that Lou has to be moved before Doan signs but I see the exact opposite. Van signs Doan and Gillis then knows what to ask for in a Lou trade and also knows what he will be able to afford under the CAP. I suspect that to a limited degree the Van group made Doan aware of their situation. As a result I expect a deal to go down within the week.

The Jamieson Group have probably tried to reassure Doan about their deal but at some point it has to be realized that even if they manage the sale the situation in PHX remains very unstable. Doan is still young enough that his concern about is potentially last contract means he has to move on.
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#410 Riviera82

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 08:00 AM

What is your definition of elite. When would you say Roberto lost his 'elite' status? I take it prior to this last season you deemed Lundqvist an elite goalie. Statistically speaking however, he was no better than Luongo, including the playoffs, and had even less success in the playoffs than Roberto. Same goes for Howard, Quick, Rinne, and Miller. Simply speaking from a statistical point of view, ALL of their career numbers are nearly equal or lesser to that of Luongo. So I don't see how people can deem Luongo not elite yet deem these other goalies elite when the numbers don't support it. The only legitimate argument people can even make against Luongo not being elite is his inconsistency in the playoffs. EVEN WITH that inconsistency prior to the last season, Luongo had a career 2.50 and .917. Not too shabby at all. I keep referring 'prior to last season' for the sake of argument because Lundqvist and Quick were no better than Luongo but given their success this season, I would probably say that they are.

But people can't just at the numbers all the time and come to a conclusion. If team A was on the PK 8 times during a game and allowed several odd man rushes and team B tallied four or five goals in that span of the game, most people are simply going to look at the box score and go 'gee, nice goaltending'. But see, that would be unfair to the goalie of team A. My point being you can't just look at the numbers all the time. Even with Luongo's inconsistency in the playoffs, the defence as a whole is to blame for many of these goals. People need to actually analyze and break down plays and understand why the opposition scored. But most people don't have the time to do this or are too stupid to do this and instead simply resort to blaming Luongo. And lets be perfectly honest, he is getting NO help from OUR offence for the last two series against the Kings and Bruins.

As much as people want to ride Luongo's ass for his performance, the Canucks 1.17 goals combined over the last two series is going to get you absolutely no where. As much as he is to blame, the team in front is defending poorly at times and providing almost zero offence. It doesn't matter if Luongo allows five goals or two. The offence isn't there in support anyway.


I cant reply to everything you have written here, you make a decent argument but there is simply too much.
My definition of an elite goalie is one who has statistics in the top 5 of every goaltending category on a consistent basis, including playoffs. Wins, GAA, Sv%, Shutouts. Luongo never has that, granted very few goalies do but he is usually not even close. He is usually around 30-40 wins which is very good. His GAA has been as low as 2.11 and as high as 2.57, but he is usually in the 2.35 neighborhood which is fairly average nowadays. His Sv% is always around .920 which is roughly average now too, except for 09/10 when it was a mediocre .913. As for shutouts, aside from 08/09 when he posted 9 of them, his totals have been unimpressive.
Speaking of the playoffs now, as of 2011 Luongo has 59 career playoff games with a career GAA of 2.50 and Sv% .917. Think about it, even in the regular season those numbers are average, and they are helped very much by his first playoffs which was the only one he was brilliant in. If he could've posted a 1.77 GAA and .941 Sv% in any of our last 4 postseasons, we would have at least one Stanley Cup, 2.50 and .917 do not cut it anymore.
If he is "elite" he should be able to post better stats than he does even if our defense sucks, which it does not, it's not great but it's good.
Pardon the rant but I do not believe Luongo can be considered one of the upper-echelon goaltenders.
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#411 Vansicle

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 08:09 AM

Do you mean that Doan was not planning to meet with the Canucks on this trip or at all in his selection process? Gilman at one point stated that he had been in phone contact with Doan a number of times and Doan's agent confirmed this. He met with the NYR and Philly but I did not read anything about Montreal or Pitt. SJ isn't mentioned much but they were also in the picture.

I was happy to hear about the Van meeting especially with ownership attending the dinner. Hoping that the Canuck group made a serious impression on Doan. Some are sayin that Lou has to be moved before Doan signs but I see the exact opposite. Van signs Doan and Gillis then knows what to ask for in a Lou trade and also knows what he will be able to afford under the CAP. I suspect that to a limited degree the Van group made Doan aware of their situation. As a result I expect a deal to go down within the week.

The Jamieson Group have probably tried to reassure Doan about their deal but at some point it has to be realized that even if they manage the sale the situation in PHX remains very unstable. Doan is still young enough that his concern about is potentially last contract means he has to move on.

Doan commented last week that he knew Vancouver well and had no need/plans to come here on this particular trip. Or something along those lines. So if he changed plans, it's possible that was due to "new developments", but it's not certain what those developments might be. It's also possible he was just trying to keep his cards close to his vest to avoid speculation, and intended to come to Vancouver all along.
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Snake Doctor, on 23 May 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:snapback.png

Miller is not on our list. It's Lack as our #1. There is no reason we would have traded both Schnieder and Luongo if we never intended to give Lack the #1 starting job.  Furthermore, the salary and term Miller is looking for is not in our favor.

 


#412 Riviera82

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 08:12 AM

I don't recall at any time during the cup run this team was a scoring machine. Lu kept them in every game and almost won the con smythe. winning 1-0 and 2-1 is your definition of a scoring machine? hardly. he was posting 40-50 saves almost on a nightly basis.


What?
Which playoffs were you watching? Yes he had some very good games and he had a whole bunch of crap games. Do you remember games 4 and 5 against Chicago? 12 past Luongo. The four losses to Boston, he got lit up like a christmas tree. He was good against Nashville aside from all the goals he gave up from behind the net and the only noteworthy game he had against San Jose was the 5th one where he made 50+ saves for the only time during the playoffs. Let's not even get into our first two encounters with Chicago.
As for my scoring machine comment, the team would have to be one to overcome his meltdowns. We are both right in this instance, the Canucks are not a scoring machine, so when Luongo falls apart, we lose.
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#413 Boudrias

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 08:15 AM

I cant reply to everything you have written here, you make a decent argument but there is simply too much.
My definition of an elite goalie is one who has statistics in the top 5 of every goaltending category on a consistent basis, including playoffs. Wins, GAA, Sv%, Shutouts. Luongo never has that, granted very few goalies do but he is usually not even close. He is usually around 30-40 wins which is very good. His GAA has been as low as 2.11 and as high as 2.57, but he is usually in the 2.35 neighborhood which is fairly average nowadays. His Sv% is always around .920 which is roughly average now too, except for 09/10 when it was a mediocre .913. As for shutouts, aside from 08/09 when he posted 9 of them, his totals have been unimpressive.
Speaking of the playoffs now, as of 2011 Luongo has 59 career playoff games with a career GAA of 2.50 and Sv% .917. Think about it, even in the regular season those numbers are average, and they are helped very much by his first playoffs which was the only one he was brilliant in. If he could've posted a 1.77 GAA and .941 Sv% in any of our last 4 postseasons, we would have at least one Stanley Cup, 2.50 and .917 do not cut it anymore.
If he is "elite" he should be able to post better stats than he does even if our defense sucks, which it does not, it's not great but it's good.
Pardon the rant but I do not believe Luongo can be considered one of the upper-echelon goaltenders.

Good post.
How a goalie plays with his defence is critical to his success. Over the years Van d-core has not been particularly brilliant. At points Lou started to guess at what they were doing and the puck handling fiascos behind the net were the obvious examples. I would also point out that other Canuck goalies suffered the same fate.

Comparing goalie stats have some value but for the above reasons I do not put total faith in them. If you want to point a finger I suggest Renne in Nashville failed whereas Kipper in Calgary shines.
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#414 suolucidir

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 09:39 AM

What?
Which playoffs were you watching? Yes he had some very good games and he had a whole bunch of crap games. Do you remember games 4 and 5 against Chicago? 12 past Luongo. The four losses to Boston, he got lit up like a christmas tree. He was good against Nashville aside from all the goals he gave up from behind the net and the only noteworthy game he had against San Jose was the 5th one where he made 50+ saves for the only time during the playoffs. Let's not even get into our first two encounters with Chicago.
As for my scoring machine comment, the team would have to be one to overcome his meltdowns. We are both right in this instance, the Canucks are not a scoring machine, so when Luongo falls apart, we lose.

Had the Canucks mustered a win in game 7 Lu likely could have received the conn smythe. As he won the cup, nobody remembers that Thomas got lit up badly vs the Bolts. The difference is his team was able to outscore their problems in that series.
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PSN: CloakOfSkill

Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists somewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.

It bugs me when people pull out the gold medal for an example... Luongo only had to outplay Brodeur.


#415 Noheart

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 09:46 AM

I believe the world will end in 12/21/12 the CBA will not be agreed apon.

We will be bickering and pulling trade packages out of our bums for eternity

May God, Ancient Aliens and Free Masons have Mercy on our tortured souls

As you Wuz
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BEASTLY!!!

#416 GHL

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 10:06 AM

You know it all man, at least I finally figured out who God prays to.

He has a valid point because if MG signs Doan, a salary dump is now mandatory before the start of the season. That makes a big difference... Clearly.


No prickly friend; I do not know it all. Just enough to know I know absolutely nothing in fact.

Concerning Luongo, again, the sky isn't falling. There are numerous moves MG could make to clear cap space including moving players such as Ballard, Raymond and Alberts, as well as Kesler's status on LTIR.

So no, there is no panic to trade Luongo any time soon and frankly, as stated before, I do not like Florida's attempted robbery.

Bjugstad is worth nothing in this league except a bag of hype and hope.
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#417 OilRigger89

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 10:16 AM

Hey guys,

Weird, I know, but this is my first time in this thread, and I'm not going to sift through all the pages to see if anyones thought of this yet, because they probably have, but if not, do you guys think...

Our beloved Luongo is slated to make $6.7M this up coming season, with a cap hit of $5.33M. Now, I don't know this for a fact, but Florida doesn't seem like a "rich" team, like Nashville before the Weber matching. I've read somewhere that the fans love him, Tallon is very interested, and most important, the owners want him back? I don't recall where I read this so don't go asking me for a source, but regardless, it should be a done deal right?

As everyone knows, we're on the fence as to wether or not we will be going through another lockout, do you guys think there may be a possibility that a deal is worked out, but Florida's owners just want the new CBA signed before pulling the trigger and having to pay Luongo $6.7M to stay at home and play online poker and tweet?!

Just an idea, but I think it's a very good possibility, the day the new CBA is signed, we could see a Luongo trade follow pretty quick, if not the same day. Talon and Gillis have a good relationship, and wouldn't surprise me that they would already have a deal in place.

Just my 2 cents,

Have a good one guys and gals
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#418 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 11:12 AM

Hey guys,

Weird, I know, but this is my first time in this thread, and I'm not going to sift through all the pages to see if anyones thought of this yet, because they probably have, but if not, do you guys think...

Our beloved Luongo is slated to make $6.7M this up coming season, with a cap hit of $5.33M. Now, I don't know this for a fact, but Florida doesn't seem like a "rich" team, like Nashville before the Weber matching. I've read somewhere that the fans love him, Tallon is very interested, and most important, the owners want him back? I don't recall where I read this so don't go asking me for a source, but regardless, it should be a done deal right?

As everyone knows, we're on the fence as to wether or not we will be going through another lockout, do you guys think there may be a possibility that a deal is worked out, but Florida's owners just want the new CBA signed before pulling the trigger and having to pay Luongo $6.7M to stay at home and play online poker and tweet?!

Just an idea, but I think it's a very good possibility, the day the new CBA is signed, we could see a Luongo trade follow pretty quick, if not the same day. Talon and Gillis have a good relationship, and wouldn't surprise me that they would already have a deal in place.

Just my 2 cents,

Have a good one guys and gals


My understanding is, in the case of a strike or lockout, the players are not paid. Signing bonuses are due (which explains part of the Weber contract structure) but salaries are not.

If correct, Florida getting Luongo, would carry no risk of having to pay him if the season is delayed or cancelled.

My guess is, there could be a deal MG would accept from Florida but he is holding off until the Doan situation is resolved. If Nucks land Doan, it changes their "needs" for the next few years and therefore alters what MG my be looking for from a Lu trade.

Edited by DIBdaQUIB, 02 August 2012 - 11:13 AM.

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#419 Bigturk8

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 11:56 AM

No prickly friend; I do not know it all. Just enough to know I know absolutely nothing in fact.

Concerning Luongo, again, the sky isn't falling. There are numerous moves MG could make to clear cap space including moving players such as Ballard, Raymond and Alberts, as well as Kesler's status on LTIR.

So no, there is no panic to trade Luongo any time soon and frankly, as stated before, I do not like Florida's attempted robbery.

Bjugstad is worth nothing in this league except a bag of hype and hope.


Florida probably feels like they deserve a freebie since we have robbed them on several occasions.
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#420 smurf47

smurf47

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 11:57 AM

I sure hope Luongo is gone before the season starts. Its not that he would not be very good insurance, but the distraction it would cause would not be good for the chemistry in the dressing room. I believe the team needs the opportunity to embrace schneider as the teams #1 and focus on the new team direction.
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