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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread (Keep all discussion here)


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#1111 kanucks1

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 12:39 PM

Good idea!
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#1112 TmanVan

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 01:10 PM

I agree with you when you say that the Leafs are the most obvious trade partner. Problem is, like I said, their prospect pools isn't as intriguing as Florida's (to me at least).

If they truly are our only option I'd prefer to see Bozak or Frattin coming the other way instead of Franson in the deal you mentioned. Franson, Colborne and a 1st doesn't cut it in my estimation (earlyish-mid first + project forward + 6/7 Dman).

Keep in mind that Lack is the wild card here. If he isn't ready for the show we might need a goalie coming back to us.

I also agree that Bjugstad isn't the player to push us over the top. Nor am I saying that he should be the ONLY piece coming back to us in a trade. I just think he has more upside than most Leaf prospects and would be a nice piece to fit in somewhere in the future. He was a player I was hoping the Canucks would draft that year, however unlikely it was that he would slide to us.

I just don't want Gillis to settle, and I'm glad he is taking his time and standing his ground.


Im glad he's standing his ground too. Look at it this way......

-Tomas Kaberle was apparently worth Joe Colborne and a first round pick than we should get more for Luongo.

-If Francois Beauchemin is worth Jake Gardiner and Jofferey Lupul than Luongo should get us more than that too.

-If relatively unproven Jaroslav Halak is worth two prospects than Luongo should fetch us double.

- If Rick Nash who arguably has a worse contract than Luongo is worth Dubinksy, Anisimov, Erixon, and a 1st than Luongo should get us AT LEAST half of that ( top pick and a prospect)
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#1113 brewdog

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 01:47 PM

Im glad he's standing his ground too. Look at it this way......

-Tomas Kaberle was apparently worth Joe Colborne and a first round pick than we should get more for Luongo.

-If Francois Beauchemin is worth Jake Gardiner and Jofferey Lupul than Luongo should get us more than that too.

-If relatively unproven Jaroslav Halak is worth two prospects than Luongo should fetch us double.

- If Rick Nash who arguably has a worse contract than Luongo is worth Dubinksy, Anisimov, Erixon, and a 1st than Luongo should get us AT LEAST half of that ( top pick and a prospect)


It's painful for me to not bring up the whole than/then thing when it's misused four times in a row, but I'll stick to the hockey stuff. It's easy to declare trade winners a year or two later when someone (Halak, Lupul) seriously overachieves. I don't think it's fair to look back and call it a one-sided trade. In the moment, on paper, most trades are going to satisfy the needs of each side, even if it means dumping salary or getting rid of a problem in the dressing room (Cody).

I think a Luongo trade will be very fair on paper, but it'll be a couple years before we can say who won. If Luongo wins the Cup in another town and our incoming prospects retire in the ECHL, well, that will end up being talked about for a very long time. :)
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#1114 TmanVan

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 02:17 PM

It's painful for me to not bring up the whole than/then thing when it's misused four times in a row, but I'll stick to the hockey stuff. It's easy to declare trade winners a year or two later when someone (Halak, Lupul) seriously overachieves. I don't think it's fair to look back and call it a one-sided trade. In the moment, on paper, most trades are going to satisfy the needs of each side, even if it means dumping salary or getting rid of a problem in the dressing room (Cody).

I think a Luongo trade will be very fair on paper, but it'll be a couple years before we can say who won. If Luongo wins the Cup in another town and our incoming prospects retire in the ECHL, well, that will end up being talked about for a very long time. :)


Sorry boss, when is the spelling test? :P Anyway, I wasn't declaring any trade "winners or losers" or even saying that they were one sided, but simply trying to guess what the Canucks should hope for in a return based on market value given recent examples.
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#1115 The Lock

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 04:26 PM

Sorry boss, when is the spelling test? :P Anyway, I wasn't declaring any trade "winners or losers" or even saying that they were one sided, but simply trying to guess what the Canucks should hope for in a return based on market value given recent examples.


I kinda of disagree with the comparisons too. Luongo has a looooong contract. To say he should be worth double Halak, who is younger, had a good season in Montreal before the trade, etc, isn't really a good comparison. Simply put, I think it'll be less than double. but there are too many factors to consider in these decisions. It should be about what our team wants and what is the market value at this time, not last year or the year before.

Also, defencemen are a different market entirely. I don't care what Kaberle brings, it took how many years to make that deal? Just because Beauchemin was traded for Gardiner and Lupul does not mean that's what he's worth now.

It's also ironic that your last 2 comparisons don't even correspond with one another. 2 prospects = high end pick and prospect, yet in one you mention is should be double that and in the other you mentioned that's what we should get??????
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#1116 ccc44

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 04:40 PM

Im glad he's standing his ground too. Look at it this way......

-Tomas Kaberle was apparently worth Joe Colborne and a first round pick than we should get more for Luongo.

-If Francois Beauchemin is worth Jake Gardiner and Jofferey Lupul than Luongo should get us more than that too.

-If relatively unproven Jaroslav Halak is worth two prospects than Luongo should fetch us double.

- If Rick Nash who arguably has a worse contract than Luongo is worth Dubinksy, Anisimov, Erixon, and a 1st than Luongo should get us AT LEAST half of that ( top pick and a prospect)

Every deal involves different factors will determine what other teams will offer in return meaning the value of a player is only what another team will offer ,This is not a video game

Edited by ccc44, 18 August 2012 - 04:47 PM.

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#1117 Barry_Wilkins

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 07:19 PM

not inconceivable that Florida and Toronto could wind up fighting it out for an 8th seed - so those keep it cheap tactics aren't without a downside for the team that doesn't cut a deal.


Yep.

TO, in a best case scenario, will be fighting for the 8th seed before the trade deadline, and if they miss the playoffs yet again, the heat on Burke will be turned so high it'll burn his odds for a good contract on a soon-to-be-next GM position. Come January, Burke, in calls to Gillis, will be adding value for Van every day.

Florida's in a completely different market, but they just had their first taste of the playoffs in over a decade. Their division rivals improved while Florida declined (Kuba replacing Garrison). Also, no saying Theodore repeats the year he had last season when you look at his body of work since his glory days of long ago. Tallon could also be sweating bullets by Dec-Jan.

Vancouver, OTOH, will breeze to the playoffs again. Gillis doesn't need to make a deal until before next year's deadline. The demand for Lu will continue to increase in that time.
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#1118 shadowgoon

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 08:58 PM

Sorry boss, when is the spelling test? :P Anyway, I wasn't declaring any trade "winners or losers" or even saying that they were one sided, but simply trying to guess what the Canucks should hope for in a return based on market value given recent examples.


Don't you mean grammar test?



:bigblush:
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#1119 EvoLu7ioN

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 11:18 PM

Luuuuuuuuu.

Edited by EvoLu7ioN, 18 August 2012 - 11:19 PM.

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#1120 playboi19

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 12:06 AM

Schneider for Larsson and Henrique.
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#1121 NuckMan

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 09:22 AM

Schneider for Larsson and Henrique.


Haha. Thanks for making my morning a little brighter.
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#1122 Garrison

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 11:07 AM

Schneider for Larsson and Henrique.


That's the only way we'll ever trade Schneider is if we get an ridiculous offer.
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#1123 RO8!!

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 04:00 PM

That's the only way we'll ever trade Schneider is if we get an ridiculous offer.


I'm sure that is what people thought after Loui's 1st season as well.
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#1124 playboi19

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 04:12 PM

That's the only way we'll ever trade Schneider is if we get an ridiculous offer.

Haha. Thanks for making my morning a little brighter.

No problem.
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#1125 Mike Versace ESQ

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 05:07 PM

Hockeyy Insiderr@HockeyyInsiderr
On Luongo: looks like he will indeed be traded before training camp but as of right now sources say #Leafs are #OUT.#Canucks

CollapseHockeyy Insiderr@HockeyyInsiderr
I have been informed a deal between #FLAPanthers and #Canucks is VERY LIKELY to be worked out but talks slowed down due to CBA negotiations.

Expand
Hockeyy Insiderr@HockeyyInsiderr
As per my sources, there is a very good chance at this moment Luongo will line up for the #FLAPanthers to begin next season.#Canucks

ExpandHockeyy Insiderr@HockeyyInsiderr
The deal is NOT DONE yet by any means, but 2 teams have several talks per week. Hearing the deal will eventually be centered around Matthias
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#1126 Get real canuck fans

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 05:41 PM

I'm sure that is what people thought after Loui's 1st season as well.


Difference being is Cory has been easy to deal with and there was no contract difficulties. Lu and Cody Hodgson were both traded because of off ice issues. Lu and the Isles had major difficulties coming to terms on Lu's 1st contract.
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#1127 Edler's Mind Tricks

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 06:04 PM

Did Lu have any issues in his first season?
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Posted 19 August 2012 - 06:16 PM

Did Lu have any issues in his first season?

Before playing a game in the NHL,,,
Although the Islanders planned to have Luongo play in the NHL for the 1998–99 season, an inconsistent performance at training camp led to Luongo's return to the QMJHL that season.[10] Due to having failed to come to terms on a contract before October 1, 1998, Luongo was not allowed to be called up to the Islanders from junior over the course of the subsequent seasson

.Mike Milbury said about Lu during his 1st season,,
"In January 2000, Luongo was publicly criticized by Islanders general manager Mike Milbury for having gone looking for an apartment in New York on a game day before letting in seven goals to the Boston Bruins.[29] Milbury told the media, "You can't do that in the NHL. You have to prepare yourself." Luongo defended himself by saying he did not divert from his usual game day routine by looking at just one apartment.[29]
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#1129 Jake's_Dad

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 07:45 PM

Before playing a game in the NHL,,,
Although the Islanders planned to have Luongo play in the NHL for the 199899 season, an inconsistent performance at training camp led to Luongo's return to the QMJHL that season.[10] Due to having failed to come to terms on a contract before October 1, 1998, Luongo was not allowed to be called up to the Islanders from junior over the course of the subsequent seasson

.Mike Milbury said about Lu during his 1st season,,
"In January 2000, Luongo was publicly criticized by Islanders general manager Mike Milbury for having gone looking for an apartment in New York on a game day before letting in seven goals to the Boston Bruins.[29] Milbury told the media, "You can't do that in the NHL. You have to prepare yourself." Luongo defended himself by saying he did not divert from his usual game day routine by looking at just one apartment.[29]


Anyone else get sorta anxious when the article stated "after letting in 7 goals to the bruins?"
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#1130 Pears

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 07:47 PM

Anyone else get sorta anxious when the article stated "after letting in 7 goals to the bruins?"

Yep. **Fast forward 11 years**

Edited by Steven Stamkos' Mullet, 19 August 2012 - 07:47 PM.

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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

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#1131 shadowgoon

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 08:02 PM

Sort of getting back on track, Gillis has a propensity for pulling stuff straight out of left field. No one saw White et al for Ehrhoff, no one saw Samuelsson + whatever his name was for Booth, no one saw Hodgson for Kassian. Point is we know Luongo's going to FLA, but I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if other pieces/aspects of the trade were pulled so far out of left field no one would have seen them coming.

I think because of this, Gillis is going to surprise a lot of people (and potentially disappoint a lot of others) on this forum, in the media and the fan base at large.

Should be interesting to see what happens.
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#1132 CanuckianOne

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 08:23 PM

I know HI isn't a vaild source, but he does seem to get some things right. I wouldn't be surprised to see a deal done pretty quick
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#1133 Edler's Mind Tricks

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 08:31 PM

Ya.. Before we got Lapierre there was an endless drone of topics vouching for or predicting trade targets... IIRC, Konopka was the favorite and basically no-one thought there wash chance of Lapierre coming here.

In fact, name 3 Canuck trades or signings that was predicted by more then 5-10% of CDC. Hamhuis is the only one I remember!
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#1134 Get real canuck fans

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 08:50 PM

Ya.. Before we got Lapierre there was an endless drone of topics vouching for or predicting trade targets... IIRC, Konopka was the favorite and basically no-one thought there wash chance of Lapierre coming here.

In fact, name 3 Canuck trades or signings that was predicted by more then 5-10% of CDC. Hamhuis is the only one I remember!


Garrison was predicted by many ,,,Pahlson was mentioned,,think Higgins was also rumored,,,Booth was talked about a fair bit
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#1135 Pears

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 09:02 PM

Ya.. Before we got Lapierre there was an endless drone of topics vouching for or predicting trade targets... IIRC, Konopka was the favorite and basically no-one thought there wash chance of Lapierre coming here.

In fact, name 3 Canuck trades or signings that was predicted by more then 5-10% of CDC. Hamhuis is the only one I remember!

Someone proposed two 4th's and Sauve for Pahlsson. Got 95% of it right.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

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#1136 elvis15

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 10:43 PM

Schneider for Larsson and Henrique.

That's the only way we'll ever trade Schneider is if we get an ridiculous offer.

In case you didn't notice, that is a ridiculous offer. There is no way we wouldn't take that and run.

As far as the @HI stuff, I'll believe it when I see it. Or more to the point, when I see someone else as a public source that is trustworthy already saying it, which is what @HI tries to pass off as his own.
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#1137 Noheart

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 01:08 AM

Garrison was predicted by many ,,,Pahlson was mentioned,,think Higgins was also rumored,,,Booth was talked about a fair bit


Educated speculation

Gotta love it, makes mortal men into hockey insiders
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#1138 Pineapples

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 01:29 AM

Difference being is Cory has been easy to deal with and there was no contract difficulties. Lu and Cody Hodgson were both traded because of off ice issues. Lu and the Isles had major difficulties coming to terms on Lu's 1st contract.


In case you haven't noticed, Lu is still a Canuck. And also, if Lu is traded it won't be because of off ice issues, it would be because of Schneider's great goaltending.


Before playing a game in the NHL,,,
Although the Islanders planned to have Luongo play in the NHL for the 1998–99 season, an inconsistent performance at training camp led to Luongo's return to the QMJHL that season.[10] Due to having failed to come to terms on a contract before October 1, 1998, Luongo was not allowed to be called up to the Islanders from junior over the course of the subsequent seasson

.Mike Milbury said about Lu during his 1st season,,
"In January 2000, Luongo was publicly criticized by Islanders general manager Mike Milbury for having gone looking for an apartment in New York on a game day before letting in seven goals to the Boston Bruins.[29] Milbury told the media, "You can't do that in the NHL. You have to prepare yourself." Luongo defended himself by saying he did not divert from his usual game day routine by looking at just one apartment.[29]


It's Mike Milbury, practically everything he says or does is wrong.

Seems to me that you're grasping at straws to hate on Luongo...
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#1139 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 03:04 AM

Recent goaltender trades/signings: (yes I am being somewhat selective)

Trades:

Semeon Varlamov - 2 consecutive first round picks from COL
Sergei Bobrovsky - 3 picks - 2nd, two 4ths.
Anders Lindback - 3 picks, two 2nds and a 3rd

Signings:

Bryzgalov - 9 year/ 51 million $
Price - 6 year/ 39 million $
Quick - 10 year/ 58 million $

I'd like to make two points here, 1. That trades with even marginal or unproven goaltenders end up with multiple picks coming back. 2. That signing top end goaltender talent is costly, and in the case of Bryzgalov, a UFA goaltender a massive amount of money had to be thrown his way.

If Tallon thinks he can get a top end goaltender in Luongo for a couple throwaways he is sorely mistaken. The contract, which seems to be a deciding factor is actually comparatively good to some of the goaltender contracts currently out there. The front loaded Luongo deal has seen 20 million paid, a third of the 12 year deal accounted for. So Tallon gets a reasonable contract on an excellent goaltender with a chunk of his contract already served.

There is no reason for Tallon to low ball Gillis, taking into consideration the trades for goaltenders recently (who are not proven or as good as Luongo), as well as factoring the contracts of goaltenders with similar talent. Make him pay Gillis.
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#1140 AndyBernard

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 07:48 AM

Great point made by ossi vannannanananan or how ever you spell it lol.

I think Gillis is playing poker, Tallon knows he needs Lu and cant live another year with 2 backups and is bluffing his arse off to give up less to Gillis.

Hopefully MG holds his composure and Tallon eventually folds.
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