Canuck Surfer Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 You are kidding yourself! With Doughty already a gold and a cup in his first year out of ELC??? Hiding behind numbers has merit in some instances, but not with here. He commands the offensive zone for L.A. (and also did for team Canada) like few in hockey and has the ability to break pressure and neutral zone traps by rushing the puck in a manner that we have never had in 40 years on the Canucks. To exaggerate my point (cuz Doughty's not quite this good), Paul Coffey never had to be great defensively to make the hall of fame or win cups with different teams. Karlsson also just won the Norris... Those skills are infinitely valuable even if you are not great defensively, but he's not a slouch either. Any bets he wins a Norris in his career or merits HHOF consideration? Plus Doughty's numbers were subdued by coming in late after his contract holdout, as was L.A.'s start. L.A. was also not lucky, they dominated physical match ups, plus had the talent, speed and goaltending. They were the pre-season concensus SC pick, and added big role playing bodies King & Nolan, plus needed scoring in Carter who also pulled through in that regard. Calling it lucky, or that they may not compete is short sighted IMO. LA is a strong puck possession team (the best in the league last yr, I believe), I def would not describe them as elite. I think their team, particularity their d-core and goalie, benefit from playing a defense first game (just like STL). They also benefit from playing a system that I don't think any coach has figured out how to break yet (at least according to Bowman). Doughtys underlying numbers were very similar to Bieksa this yr (Bieksas slightly better), Doughty benefited from double the PP TOI as Juice. I wouldn't describe him as one of the best d-men in the league. IMO the best d-men in the league are guys who play the toughest mins (above 1.0 and o-zones below 50%), and have a strong corsi and GA/60. Doughty doesn't fit that category. Kopitars good cause he plays tough mins effectively, though his defense abilities are questionable. He's certainly not Kesler in that dept. Their top 6 guys play the toughest mins, and leave the weak ones for their bottom 6. Pretty much the opposite of Canucks which is why I reflected on in my earlier post w/ regards to Sedins. I think they'll be battling for a playoff spot again this yr. LA is good, but had a lot of luck this yr in their playoff run IMO. Officiating was their biggest piece of luck. The difference between Nucks and LAs cap $$ availability is goalies $$. Their cap will look a lot different once Quick $5.8M cap hit kicks in next yr, they'll have cap issues unless they let key guys walk. It's likely why they've left lots of cap room this yr - they have to. I agree, I think Nucks could use an upgrade in the top 6. Preferably one that comes free..... Doan... anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunningWild Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 You are kidding yourself! With Doughty already a gold and a cup in his first year out of ELC??? Hiding behind numbers has merit in some instances, but not with here. He commands the offensive zone for L.A. (and also did for team Canada) like few in hockey and has the ability to break pressure and neutral zone traps by rushing the puck in a manner that we have never had in 40 years on the Canucks. To exaggerate my point (cuz Doughty's not quite this good), Paul Coffey never had to be great defensively to make the hall of fame or win cups with different teams. Karlsson also just won the Norris... Those skills are infinitely valuable even if you are not great defensively, but he's not a slouch either. Any bets he wins a Norris in his career or merits HHOF consideration? Plus Doughty's numbers were subdued by coming in late after his contract holdout, as was L.A.'s start. L.A. was also not lucky, they dominated physical match ups, plus had the talent, speed and goaltending. They were the pre-season consensus SC pick, and added big role playing bodies King & Nolan, plus needed scoring in Carter who also pulled through in that regard. Calling it lucky, or that they may not compete is short sighted IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djsandwiches Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Back to discussing a possible trade involving Lu and Florida... Are there any reports that suggest Tallon doesn't want to include any of the following: Jug, Hube, or Gud? I'd certainly hope MG would at least land one of these prospects as part of a return on any deal with the Miami Pooss-ee Cats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millerdraft Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Back to discussing a possible trade involving Lu and Florida... Are there any reports that suggest Tallon doesn't want to include any of the following: Jug, Hube, or Gud? I'd certainly hope MG would at least land one of these prospects as part of a return on any deal with the Miami Pooss-ee Cats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djsandwiches Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 To get the answer to this question, all you have to do is read this thread or the much smaller version called "Luongo trade news" or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djsandwiches Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 There was a rumour somewhere started by the Hockeybuzz, unsure where I read it, but it included Columbus in the mix of possible trading partners. Would Lu even waive his NTC to goto the Blue Jackets? If so, what would be a reasonable possible return in your guys' opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Kick_Save_ Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 I really wish this was over with. This is going to be such a distraction if Luongo is here come training camp. I get that Gillis is waiting for his idea of a fair deal but the closer it gets to the start of the season the more I think prospective teams are just going to go with the more fiscally responsible move of getting an Al Montoya or a Nabakov. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 There was a rumour somewhere started by the Hockeybuzz, unsure where I read it, but it included Columbus in the mix of possible trading partners. Would Lu even waive his NTC to goto the Blue Jackets? If so, what would be a reasonable possible return in your guys' opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunningWild Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 You are kidding yourself! With Doughty already a gold and a cup in his first year out of ELC??? Hiding behind numbers has merit in some instances, but not with here. He commands the offensive zone for L.A. (and also did for team Canada) like few in hockey and has the ability to break pressure and neutral zone traps by rushing the puck in a manner that we have never had in 40 years on the Canucks. To exaggerate my point (cuz Doughty's not quite this good), Paul Coffey never had to be great defensively to make the hall of fame or win cups with different teams. Karlsson also just won the Norris... Those skills are infinitely valuable even if you are not great defensively, but he's not a slouch either. Any bets he wins a Norris in his career or merits HHOF consideration? Plus Doughty's numbers were subdued by coming in late after his contract holdout, as was L.A.'s start. L.A. was also not lucky, they dominated physical match ups, plus had the talent, speed and goaltending. They were the pre-season concensus SC pick, and added big role playing bodies King & Nolan, plus needed scoring in Carter who also pulled through in that regard. Calling it lucky, or that they may not compete is short sighted IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHL Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 ...thanks, but I was also hoping to stir the discussion back to the main road. There was a reason (strategy involved) why I asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHL Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Bure > Luongo as the most anticipated trade and trade of our best ever player. Lou is a great player, but Bure was a HHOF for being amongst the most electric players ever, in spite of an injury shortened career. Lou needs to up his game to be HHOF or compare with Pav. Bure was also being a much bigger jerk & that plus the always entertaining GM Burke handling it made the drama a lot more fun. Naslund's acquisition #1 and then debate Sedins acquisition or Tuzzi/McCabe would also trump Lou leaving IMO... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smurf47 Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Lou not a future HHOF candidate? You gonna attach horses to pull that Ferrari thing around there boy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiDeN Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Lou not a future HHOF candidate? You gonna attach horses to pull that Ferrari thing around there boy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestorm238 Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 I think ol' Lu might have earned himself a place in the Ring of Honour (assuming that still exists in 10 years), but the HHOF? I hate to be that guy, but he's a great regular season goalie who's yet to win anything big beyond the gold medal (which on it's own isn't enough). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFCanuck Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Luongo and Raymond for Phil Kessel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shazzam Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 This should probably go in another thread, but whether Luongo will be a hhof canadiate will be an interesting debate. Assuming, he never wins a Stanley Cup or Vezina, he will should still be pretty high in the wins and shutouts category. I'm not sure if that is enough to get him in. Now, does Tim Thomas deserver to be a candidate? He has 1 cup, 1 conn smythe and 2 vezinas. However, he doesn't have many NHL seasons played. I don't think so either. note that only 3 goalies have been inducted into the hhof the past decade, Feur, Belfour and Roy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBernard Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Maybe if luongo and thomas fused together lmao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franz Liszt Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 FOR DISCUSSION SAKE: Hockeyy Insiderr @HockeyyInsiderr The #Canucks are closing in on trading @strombone1 to the#NHLPanthers. The trade talks have picked up (again) and progress is made daily. Hockeyy Insiderr @HockeyyInsiderr The negotiations between #FLAPanthers and #Canucks for Luongo have Matthias as the center piece. Hockeyy Insiderr @HockeyyInsiderr Bjugstad is a name mentioned in the Luongo negotiations but sources not 100% sure if #FLAPanthers are willing to give him up.#Canucks Hockeyy Insiderr @HockeyyInsiderr One thing is certain, Luongo could be on the move sooner rather than later. The #Canucks have already started shopping for a backup goalie! Hockeyy Insiderr @HockeyyInsiderr #Canucks have contacted Dan Ellis. Also called #Habs to inquire about Peter Budaj. @strombone1 on the move next week? I believe the Budaj and Matthias parts, and that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JensenFan2011 Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 FOR DISCUSSION SAKE: Hockeyy Insiderr @HockeyyInsiderr The #Canucks are closing in on trading @strombone1 to the#NHLPanthers. The trade talks have picked up (again) and progress is made daily. Hockeyy Insiderr @HockeyyInsiderr The negotiations between #FLAPanthers and #Canucks for Luongo have Matthias as the center piece. Hockeyy Insiderr @HockeyyInsiderr Bjugstad is a name mentioned in the Luongo negotiations but sources not 100% sure if #FLAPanthers are willing to give him up.#Canucks Hockeyy Insiderr @HockeyyInsiderr One thing is certain, Luongo could be on the move sooner rather than later. The #Canucks have already started shopping for a backup goalie! Hockeyy Insiderr @HockeyyInsiderr #Canucks have contacted Dan Ellis. Also called #Habs to inquire about Peter Budaj. @strombone1 on the move next week? I believe the Budaj and Matthias parts, and that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirt Nasty Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Hansen>Matthias. Raymond>Budaj our problem over the past two playoffs has been secondary scoring, I'm not sure if getting rid of hansen and raymond for a low scoring 3rd liner and a crappy backup goalie is the best option. Sure raymond may never score 25 goals in a season again but I'd rather have him on the team then shipping him out for a crappy backup goalie when there is other options for a better backup goalie coming over through free agency (Ellis). I wouldn't mind Luongo + Schroeder + Raymond to FLA for Versteeg + Mattias + 2nd. If we don't sign Doan, fills a hole in the top 6 as well as the third line center position. Then sign Ellis for a year while Lack develops. Luongo = Versteeg, Schroeder + Raymond = Matthias + 2nd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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