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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread (Keep all discussion here)


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#1441 CB007

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 07:49 AM

Concerning Diver and Fingerbiter, point proven; some fans will defend them unquestionably when they are major problems and have lost some major respect throughout the league.


Diving and biting are not cool, but consider what good things they have done for our franchise... balance it out bro. 29 other teams in the league would love to have them at their respective contracts. Burr is so underpaid it's ridiculous.
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#1442 CB007

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 08:02 AM

There is no Cup in Vancouvwr because there isn't a legitimate second 1C, there isn't a legitimate 1D, secondary scoring is non existent, the top line is as soft as marshmallows when it counts most and team toughness is actually weak.

This team is built to win President's Trophies, not Stanley Cups. It is built on Moneyball. See Oakland A's or the movie for an explanation.


Com'on. We came up against the toughest team in the league in Boston. Montreal was 1 goal away from beating them and Tampa was almost. If we weren't so beat up by the time we got there, or if it was Tampa, we would've won the Cup.

Our team is barely moneyball, whatever Gillis said. We are consistently one of the highest cap teams in the league. And lets not forget that there are other teams are using the same principles, which kind of nullifies our strategy.

I do kind of agree with you with Kesler though. He is not a playmaking 2nd line centre. He would make the best 3rd line centre in the league. If we trade Lu I personally like to see a 2nd line centre in return, but no one in the Canucks organization would do that.

No legitimate second 1C? Can I ask you who won the Selke trophy while scoring 41 goals 2 years ago was?


A lot of them PP feeds from the twins, and yes he has a good wrist shot. He is one hell of the player of course, but I just think that for 2nd line centre position we like to have a playmaking centre. If he goes down with an injury, we only have 1 offensive gifted centre left. That's not good depth.
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#1443 Boudrias

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 08:07 AM

The only players I would trade Luongo straight up would be Toews, Kane or Keith.

Concerning "giving a Cup to Chicago", yes, they have a better team with better secondary scoring and a better defense, only their goaltending is very weak.

The point was that if Luongo is traded to Chicago for small change, the Canucks would not be handicapping or weakening their team and so they would indeed be Cup favorites with a highly motivated, angry Luongo and that's a very scary prospect.

Concerning Diver and Fingerbiter, point proven; some fans will defend them unquestionably by attacking they who call them out, while they are major problems and have lost some major respect throughout the league.

There is no Cup in Vancouvwr because there isn't a legitimate second 1C, there isn't a legitimate 1D, secondary scoring is non existent, the top line is as soft as marshmallows when it counts most and team toughness is actually weak.

This team is built to win President's Trophies, not Stanley Cups. It is built on Moneyball. See Oakland A's or the movie for an explanation.

Some very accurate points even if they are hard to accept. The offensive problem on the 2nd line has existed for years. How much that impacts the effectiveness of the 1st line during playoffs is debateable but it does impact them. 2 years ago Kesler had a banner year and although he might never hit those numbers again he is still a veery versitile player who can cover all aspects of the game. Burrows is of the same ilk. The Twins, Kesler and Burrows are the core of the forward group. That said I don't believe there are any players who are untouchables. It is always what you get back in return and how that return fits with the rest of the roster.
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#1444 Sensemaker

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 08:33 AM

Well, if we got one of the players you suggested from Chicago, then they would essentially be handing us a cup.

I don't believe that, but the argument is just as easy to make on the other side of the coin.


That's right. We give Luongo, in a fair deal they give us one of their superstars. Only then do we not hand them the potential of another Cup.

Deals like Luongo, Ballard, Raymond, a 1st and a 2nd for Bjugstad doesn't fly.

Edited by Sensemaker, 03 September 2012 - 08:34 AM.

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#1445 Sensemaker

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 09:04 AM

Com'on. We came up against the toughest team in the league in Boston. Montreal was 1 goal away from beating them and Tampa was almost. If we weren't so beat up by the time we got there, or if it was Tampa, we would've won the Cup.

Our team is barely moneyball, whatever Gillis said. We are consistently one of the highest cap teams in the league. And lets not forget that there are other teams are using the same principles, which kind of nullifies our strategy.

I do kind of agree with you with Kesler though. He is not a playmaking 2nd line centre. He would make the best 3rd line centre in the league. If we trade Lu I personally like to see a 2nd line centre in return, but no one in the Canucks organization would do that.

A lot of them PP feeds from the twins, and yes he has a good wrist shot. He is one hell of the player of course, but I just think that for 2nd line centre position we like to have a playmaking centre. If he goes down with an injury, we only have 1 offensive gifted centre left. That's not good depth.


Moneyball is not necessarily about overall budget as it is about production per dollar. It does not count such intangibles as toughness, poise, heart and desire.

Hodgson was that legitimate second 1C. But Diver, eventhough he was injured and wasn't producing, apparently didn't want to go under the knife while Hosgson butted heads with the organization on the matter, showing poise and determination to help this organiziation with their secondary scoring woes. Hodgson was drafted as the "future captain". When he showed some common sense and leadership, he was shown the door. If Diver goes on LITR, he comes back on time for the playoffs, Hodgson dishes amazing passes to Booth and Raymond throughout the season and gets comfortable in his position; the story might be rather different. Hodgson showed too much poise and was shipped out because he didn't fit the "process". Sometimes, some players are above such process. I don't see Stamkos or Crosby (not comparing Hodgson to them ditectly) having been part of the "process"; going from 4th, to 3rd, to 2nd, to 1st in four years.

Hodgson was our legitimate second 1C and could have been easily inserted on the second line until the Sedins retired. But Diver had his way.

I sure hope Kassian has a better fate. But the "process" dictates that instead of being turned into a Bertuzzi, he'll be turned into another 4th line plug despite Gillis going on record saying Kassian is "our guy".

Edited by Sensemaker, 03 September 2012 - 09:20 AM.

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#1446 smurf47

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 09:21 AM

Moneyball is not necessarily about overall budget a it is about production per dollar. It does not count such intangibles as toughness, poise, heart and desire.

Hodgson was that legitimate second 1C. But Diver, eventhough he was injured and wasn't producing, apparently didn't want to go under the knife while Hosgson butted heads with the organization on the matter, showing poise and determination to help this organiziation with their secondary scoring woes. Hodgson was drafted as the "future captain". When he showed some common sense and leadership, he was shown the door. If Diver goes on LITR, he comes back on time for the playoffs, Hodgson dishes amazing passes to Booth and Raymond throughout the season and gets comfortable in his position; the story might be rather different. Hodgson showed too much poise and was shipped out because he didn't fit the "process". Sometimes, some players are above such process. I don't see Stamkos or Crosby (not comparing Hodgson to them ditectly) having been part of the "process"; going from 4th, to 3rd, to 2nd, to 1st in four years.

Hodgson was our legitimate second 1C and could have been easily inserted on the second line until the Sedins retired. But Diver had his way.

I sure hope Kassian has a better fate. But the "process" dictates that instead of being turned into a Bertuzzi, he'll be turned into another 4th line plug despite Gillis going on record saying Kassian is "our guy".

Canucks should hire you....you have an answer for everything. Hodgson was a huge distraction in the organization and his pushy father cost him a roster slot. No one player is bigger than the system.
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#1447 riffraff

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 09:44 AM

The only players I would trade Luongo straight up would be Toews, Kane or Keith.

Concerning "giving a Cup to Chicago", yes, they have a better team with better secondary scoring and a better defense, only their goaltending is very weak.

The point was that if Luongo is traded to Chicago for small change, the Canucks would not be handicapping or weakening their team and so they would indeed be Cup favorites with a highly motivated, angry Luongo and that's a very scary prospect.

Concerning Diver and Fingerbiter, point proven; some fans will defend them unquestionably by attacking they who call them out, while they are major problems and have lost some major respect throughout the league.

There is no Cup in Vancouvwr because there isn't a legitimate second 1C, there isn't a legitimate 1D, secondary scoring is non existent, the top line is as soft as marshmallows when it counts most and team toughness is actually weak.

This team is built to win President's Trophies, not Stanley Cups. It is built on Moneyball. See Oakland A's or the movie for an explanation.


Hey it's totally ok to support Lu. He's great and yes I suppose there is a freak chance he stays here. But everything else you are saying about Chicago is complete crap. I guess you are either unaware or ignoring the facts that:

They don't have better secondary scoring. Two years ago they got in the playoffs because Dallas lost in their last game and were finally eliminated by us in the first round. Last year they were eliminated in the first round being out scored in one goal games and a 4-0 loss in the elimination game vs the yotes.

We have no 2c? Outside of an off year through injury our 2c is a selke winner.

They're d is better? After seabrook and Keith who the hell are they and what are their combined points?

Sure we have some players who don't play the game right all the time. Lest you forget Keith's honorable play on Daniel, the fact that the harks have employed the likes of carcillo, Scott, bolig, burish, eager etc......real classy eh?

Cheer Lu but pull your head out
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CanucksSayEh, on 12 March 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:
When the playoffs come around, nobody is scared of getting in a fight, but every night, they get their mom to check under the bed for Raffi Torres.

#1448 CB007

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 09:45 AM

Moneyball is not necessarily about overall budget as it is about production per dollar. It does not count such intangibles as toughness, poise, heart and desire.

Hodgson was that legitimate second 1C. But Diver, eventhough he was injured and wasn't producing, apparently didn't want to go under the knife while Hosgson butted heads with the organization on the matter, showing poise and determination to help this organiziation with their secondary scoring woes. Hodgson was drafted as the "future captain". When he showed some common sense and leadership, he was shown the door. If Diver goes on LITR, he comes back on time for the playoffs, Hodgson dishes amazing passes to Booth and Raymond throughout the season and gets comfortable in his position; the story might be rather different. Hodgson showed too much poise and was shipped out because he didn't fit the "process". Sometimes, some players are above such process. I don't see Stamkos or Crosby (not comparing Hodgson to them ditectly) having been part of the "process"; going from 4th, to 3rd, to 2nd, to 1st in four years.

Hodgson was our legitimate second 1C and could have been easily inserted on the second line until the Sedins retired. But Diver had his way.

I sure hope Kassian has a better fate. But the "process" dictates that instead of being turned into a Bertuzzi, he'll be turned into another 4th line plug despite Gillis going on record saying Kassian is "our guy".


I kind of see what you mean, but this 'process' has brought us the best records in franchise history. Joe Thornton and Datysuk didn't start high up in the depth charts either. While you can argue that Datsyuk was a late pick project that turned superstar, Thornton was a 1st overall pick who spent a few years learning his craft checking. I'm sure I can find more examples but just can't right now... its summer.
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#1449 riffraff

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 09:49 AM

I kind of see what you mean, but this 'process' has brought us the best records in franchise history. Joe Thornton and Datysuk didn't start high up in the depth charts either. While you can argue that Datsyuk was a late pick project that turned superstar, Thornton was a 1st overall pick who spent a few years learning his craft checking. I'm sure I can find more examples but just can't right now... its summer.


It's septummer
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CanucksSayEh, on 12 March 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:
When the playoffs come around, nobody is scared of getting in a fight, but every night, they get their mom to check under the bed for Raffi Torres.

#1450 Sensemaker

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 09:57 AM

Canucks should hire you....you have an answer for everything. Hodgson was a huge distraction in the organization and his pushy father cost him a roster slot. No one player is bigger than the system.


Diver is...

Edited by Sensemaker, 03 September 2012 - 09:57 AM.

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#1451 Sensemaker

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 09:59 AM

I kind of see what you mean, but this 'process' has brought us the best records in franchise history. Joe Thornton and Datysuk didn't start high up in the depth charts either. While you can argue that Datsyuk was a late pick project that turned superstar, Thornton was a 1st overall pick who spent a few years learning his craft checking. I'm sure I can find more examples but just can't right now... its summer.


You're absolutely right, the "process" has rendered the best record in franchise history. That said, my argument today is the Canucks are built for the regular season, not to win a Cup.

The Canucks play the "process" fine. But when it comes to defending each other, they sit and watch. Kassian would be the one punching Keith's lights out but that won't happen because AV likes little animals.

Payback with scoring when scoring is shut down isn't payback. That said, I believe there is still the stigma of the Bertuzzi incident over the head of this organization.

I would love to see AV trying to calm Lucic and E. Kane if they were to become property of the Canucks; he would essentially ruin their game by taking out any bit of nastiness in them. Am I exaggerating? Yes I am, only to further show my point regarding team toughness and where the problem lies.

Kassian taking a penalty for payback isn't a bad penalty. Unleash the beast in him. Afterall, "he's our guy"...




Edited by Sensemaker, 03 September 2012 - 10:04 AM.

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#1452 CB007

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 10:12 AM

The Canucks play the "process" fine. But when it comes to defending each other, they sit and watch. Kassian would be the one punching Keith's lights out but that won't happen because AV likes little animals.


Yes. I like to see that changed. Keith shouldn't have been allowed to skate out of the ring on his own, or at least our 4th liners should've done something to one of their guys after since we didn't have an enforcer playing with the twins. We are not an nasty team. That has to change somewhat.
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#1453 Sensemaker

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 10:27 AM

Yes. I like to see that changed. Keith shouldn't have been allowed to skate out of the ring on his own, or at least our 4th liners should've done something to one of their guys after since we didn't have an enforcer playing with the twins. We are not an nasty team. That has to change somewhat.


So in the end, one can certainly see that the Luongo/ Schneider situation is the least of our problems.

No 2nd 1C, no 1D, no secondary scoring, no toughness, no size, plenty of antics that need not be in the game. Plenty of skills but that alone won't win you a Cup. And the process is nullified come playoff time. Even Lapierre has shut up; an asset that derails the other team's efficiency.

I'm on board with whichever goaltender is traded. But the above mentioned issues MUST be addressed.

Edited by Sensemaker, 03 September 2012 - 11:02 AM.

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#1454 Riviera82

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 11:22 AM

So in the end, one can certainly see that the Luongo/ Schneider situation is the least of our problems.

No 2nd 1C, no 1D, no secondary scoring, no toughness, no size, plenty of antics that need not be in the game. Plenty of skills but that alone won't win you a Cup. And the process is nullified come playoff time. Even Lapierre has shut up; an asset that derails the other team's efficiency.

I'm on board with whichever goaltender is traded. But the above mentioned issues MUST be addressed.


Agreed for the most part. I wouldn't say however that Luongo/Schneider is the least of our problems, it would be best if that was resolved before the season starts.
As for the one you call "diver", he can be that 2nd line C even if he never reaches 40 goals again. in 2010 he had 25G, 50A - 75pts, but now Samuelsson is gone and Raymond should be in the icecapades. Kesler needs somebody more suitable to play with, Raymond, Booth, or Higgins are not the right guys.
True, we dont have a legitimate 1D, but we have arguably several 3/4D and Edler who could be considered a 2D. I would take that any day over Chicago who have a 1/2 D pairing but nothing except plumbers after that.
Everything else looks accurate imo.
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#1455 Sensemaker

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 11:43 AM

Agreed for the most part. I wouldn't say however that Luongo/Schneider is the least of our problems, it would be best if that was resolved before the season starts.
As for the one you call "diver", he can be that 2nd line C even if he never reaches 40 goals again. in 2010 he had 25G, 50A - 75pts, but now Samuelsson is gone and Raymond should be in the icecapades. Kesler needs somebody more suitable to play with, Raymond, Booth, or Higgins are not the right guys.
True, we dont have a legitimate 1D, but we have arguably several 3/4D and Edler who could be considered a 2D. I would take that any day over Chicago who have a 1/2 D pairing but nothing except plumbers after that.
Everything else looks accurate imo.


Usually, a top center makes their wings better. Wings seldom make their center better. There are some exceptions but there are many more examples of the aforementioned.

If Diver cannot make his wings better by passing and instead looking to shoot, it then nullifies the entire line's production; he's not adequate enough to be in what he believes is his rightful place; he belongs on the 3C position as the best 3C in the game, potentially making him legendary. Instead, he steuggles as a 2C.

Bring in a Thornton, Lecavalier, Marleau type of player and I assure you that Booth, Raymond, Kassian and/ or Higgins will instantly benefit from the center.

Concerning defense, in the playoffs, the intimidation factor of having a Weber, Chara, Doughty, Pronger, Niedermayer, Stevens type 1D for half a game far outweighs the intimidation factor that a bunch of equally good but less talented and durable 4Ds on the blue line can garner due to a lack of exposure.

A team's four lines will dread having to face a 1D for half a game and they will all eventually run into him at some point, with both top lines having to face him 90% of the game. A bunch of 4Ds can be easily matched by the opposition.

Edited by Sensemaker, 03 September 2012 - 12:02 PM.

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#1456 Riviera82

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 12:14 PM

Usually, a top center makes their wings better. Wings seldom make their center better. There are some exceptions but there are many more examples of the aforementioned.

If Diver cannot make his wings better by passing and instead looking to shoot, it then nullifies the entire line's production; he's not adequate enough to be in what he believes is his rightful place; he belongs on the 3C position as the best 3C in the game, potentially making him legendary. Instead, he steuggles as a 2C.

Bring in a Thornton, Lecavalier, Marleau type of player and I assure you that Booth, Raymond, Kassian and/ or Higgins will instantly benefit from the center.

Concerning defense, in the playoffs, the intimidation factor of having a Weber, Chara, Doughty, Pronger, Niedermayer, Stevens type 1D for half a game far outweighs the intimidation factor that a bunch of equally good but less talented and durable 4Ds on the blue line can garner due to a lack of exposure.

A team's four lines will dread having to face a 1D for half a game and they will all eventually run into him at some point, with both top lines having to face him 90% of the game. A bunch of 4Ds can be easily matched by the opposition.


I think Kesler was able to do that in 09/10. His game couldn't have regressed that much in 2 seasons, I think it is simply a lack of chemistry with whatever linemates AV sticks him with.
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#1457 Sensemaker

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 12:27 PM

I think Kesler was able to do that in 09/10. His game couldn't have regressed that much in 2 seasons, I think it is simply a lack of chemistry with whatever linemates AV sticks him with.


I hope so. There is no argument that a refreshed, fully healed team including Kesler as well as Luongo's groin will do wonders. The diving MUST stop though.

And the mentioned weaknesses MUST be addressed, otherwise it will be another "disappointing" playoffs.
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#1458 CB007

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 12:30 PM

he belongs on the 3C position as the best 3C in the game, potentially making him legendary. Instead, he steuggles as a 2C.

Bring in a Thornton, Lecavalier, Marleau type of player and I assure you that Booth, Raymond, Kassian and/ or Higgins will instantly benefit from the center.


Lets hope for Schroeder.
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#1459 Sensemaker

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 12:32 PM

Lets hope for Schroeder.


Very small man. He's not the answer, unless his center of gravity is impeccable.

Edited by Sensemaker, 03 September 2012 - 12:33 PM.

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#1460 CB007

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 12:45 PM

Very small man. He's not the answer, unless his center of gravity is impeccable.


Brier and Giroux are around the same size. Stick Kassian and Booth with him, it will be like Ronning, Momesso and Sandlak.

EDIT: call it The Valley of Doom. lol!

Edited by CB007, 03 September 2012 - 12:46 PM.

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#1461 Sensemaker

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 01:04 PM

Brier and Giroux are around the same size. Stick Kassian and Booth with him, it will be like Ronning, Momesso and Sandlak.

EDIT: call it The Valley of Doom. lol!


That's right. He'll definitely need protection and some space clearing by his wings. But yes, let's hope for Schroeder.
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#1462 Boudrias

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 01:08 PM

Usually, a top center makes their wings better. Wings seldom make their center better. There are some exceptions but there are many more examples of the aforementioned.

If Diver cannot make his wings better by passing and instead looking to shoot, it then nullifies the entire line's production; he's not adequate enough to be in what he believes is his rightful place; he belongs on the 3C position as the best 3C in the game, potentially making him legendary. Instead, he steuggles as a 2C.

Bring in a Thornton, Lecavalier, Marleau type of player and I assure you that Booth, Raymond, Kassian and/ or Higgins will instantly benefit from the center.

Concerning defense, in the playoffs, the intimidation factor of having a Weber, Chara, Doughty, Pronger, Niedermayer, Stevens type 1D for half a game far outweighs the intimidation factor that a bunch of equally good but less talented and durable 4Ds on the blue line can garner due to a lack of exposure.

A team's four lines will dread having to face a 1D for half a game and they will all eventually run into him at some point, with both top lines having to face him 90% of the game. A bunch of 4Ds can be easily matched by the opposition.

I can agree with some of your concerns about Kesler but the genie is out of the bottle when you think you can put him back at 3C. I liked the way Hodgson was coming on last January but he went cold. For awhile he was catching Kesler in scoring with far less ice time a little PP time. But again, my issue with Hodgson was his speed, his defensive play and his ability to work the body along the boards. Most of those concerns can be addressed and I will watch his development in Buffalo with interest.

To a degree I sympathize with Kesler as he has been the leader of this club for a number of seasons. He has scored key goals, played both ends of the ice and yes when needed played a physical game. Burrows has supported him thru it all. So these two get a lot of leeway in my book. What mentor did these two have when they broke in? The skills are there and the coaching has to find a way of bringing it out.
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#1463 250Integra

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 01:15 PM

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#1464 CB007

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 03:16 PM

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#1465 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 04:01 PM

I don't mind a Luongo trade as long as fair value is received. This might mean both goaltenders stay until the trade deadline.

That said, Luongo has not opened the door to other cities outside of Florida and Chicago. With Chicago, the Canucks would essentially hand them another Cup. I don't see Gillis trading Luongo to Chicago while Florida won't break the bank to bring such a long contract "home".

Schneider is definitely much easier to move than Luongo though either would bring in, in theory, a hefty return at the trade deadline, especially from marginal teams looking for a playoff birth.


How do we (you) know what doors Lou is opened to?

Lou said he would was open to what was best for the team, and I don't believe he was not being genuine. Going to a bottom feeder, in an unattractive market to live in (say Columbus) might be a big ask; but I doubt that he is closing the door on a while lot.

Lou both wants to play and is probably also sincere in wanting to keep collecting his $50 million dollar contract. My bet is if he just wants a comfortable landing pad.

Well it makes no sense to trade for an "unproven prospect" versus proven "NHLer" at this point because we are pushing for the cup in between the next 3 seasons.

Adding a top 6 forward is our biggest need right now, we need firepower and goal scoring.

And on the note of Schneider being younger, Lack is coming up and we potentially could have another great tandem, and if we choose to keep Luongo, Lack would eventually become our number one.

Goaltending is the LEAST of our worries, we need a top 6 forward, and Schneider could be the solution to fetch that.


Canuck's management has stated reasonably clearly that a Lou trade would "impact the depth chart at the prospect and NHL level."

What makes you assume they have no conviction?

And history supports that the market for players routinely delivers such a return.
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#1466 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 04:06 PM

Uhm, I think the common denominator with Kesler and Burrows was AV?

He coached them in Winnipeg, he was the architect of elevating them into key roles, when they were projected to be depth players and grinders.

I can agree with some of your concerns about Kesler but the genie is out of the bottle when you think you can put him back at 3C. I liked the way Hodgson was coming on last January but he went cold. For awhile he was catching Kesler in scoring with far less ice time a little PP time. But again, my issue with Hodgson was his speed, his defensive play and his ability to work the body along the boards. Most of those concerns can be addressed and I will watch his development in Buffalo with interest.

To a degree I sympathize with Kesler as he has been the leader of this club for a number of seasons. He has scored key goals, played both ends of the ice and yes when needed played a physical game. Burrows has supported him thru it all. So these two get a lot of leeway in my book. What mentor did these two have when they broke in? The skills are there and the coaching has to find a way of bringing it out.


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#1467 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 04:14 PM

I think this is a very good post.

It might undervalue Kesler a little, as he was doing a good job distributing the puck the year before he won the Selke. It was actually his best year; he scored 75 points hi personal best and did it without significant PP time. He probably needs a bit of an attitude correction, not seeing himself as "that" goal scorer from his Selke year and being the distributor we saw in 09/10. And to do so also requires a return in health. I think he can return to this?

But as much as your right about Kesler's role getting such a 2C as Marleau, Thornton, Lecavalier; it is a big ask, and the cost would have serious implications to our depth chart for cap reasons even if we could land them. Marleau is UFA next year?

I personally believe we need that 1D more than a top 6 forward (with a return to form by Kesler) for all the reasons you have analysed.

Usually, a top center makes their wings better. Wings seldom make their center better. There are some exceptions but there are many more examples of the aforementioned.

If Diver cannot make his wings better by passing and instead looking to shoot, it then nullifies the entire line's production; he's not adequate enough to be in what he believes is his rightful place; he belongs on the 3C position as the best 3C in the game, potentially making him legendary. Instead, he steuggles as a 2C.

Bring in a Thornton, Lecavalier, Marleau type of player and I assure you that Booth, Raymond, Kassian and/ or Higgins will instantly benefit from the center.

Concerning defense, in the playoffs, the intimidation factor of having a Weber, Chara, Doughty, Pronger, Niedermayer, Stevens type 1D for half a game far outweighs the intimidation factor that a bunch of equally good but less talented and durable 4Ds on the blue line can garner due to a lack of exposure.

A team's four lines will dread having to face a 1D for half a game and they will all eventually run into him at some point, with both top lines having to face him 90% of the game. A bunch of 4Ds can be easily matched by the opposition.


Edited by Canuck Surfer, 03 September 2012 - 04:15 PM.

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#1468 CB007

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 05:41 PM

There is no 1D available. Why did Phili have to offer Webber an offer sheet. If they had not, Nashville would likely give him a 1 year contract and he would become an UFA next year. I would then give him whatever he wants.

And we don't have a potential 1D in our pool of prospects.

Even a Schneider trade would not yield such a return.

... how is Chris Pronger doing with his concussion?

Edited by CB007, 03 September 2012 - 05:45 PM.

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#1469 Sensemaker

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 05:51 PM

There is no 1D available. Why did Phili have to offer Webber an offer sheet. If they had not, Nashville would likely give him a 1 year contract and he would become an UFA next year. I would then give him whatever he wants.

And we don't have a potential 1D in our pool of prospects.

Even a Schneider trade would not yield such a return.

... how is Chris Pronger doing with his concussion?


My thoughts exactly, though isn't he property of Philly? And since they are in dire need of defense. I would think that if he does come back, he would suit up for them...

The 2013 UFA defensemen pool looks extremely bleak. Timmonen, Visnovsky, Gonchar, Hainsey and Streit are available in 2013. Not exactly top notch 1Ds...

Edited by Sensemaker, 03 September 2012 - 06:05 PM.

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#1470 CB007

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 05:54 PM

My thoughts exactly, though isn't he property of Philly? And since they are in dire need of defense. I would think that if he does come back, he would suit up for them...


He is a Flyer until the 2017 season. But he can retire, which nullifies his contract, then come back... though I'm sure even if he does come back he would have a preference to play for the Flyers again and wouldn't want to be on the same team as your favourite Canuck.
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