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#1 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 02:02 AM

Astronomers find rare spiral galaxy


08:25 AEST Thu Jul 19 2012
4 days 22 hours 18 minutes ago



Astronomers have stumbled upon an astonishing spiral galaxy that was born nearly 11 billion years ago, a finding that could spur a rethink of how galaxies formed after the Big Bang.
Dubbed BX442, the ancient star cluster was discovered in a survey of 300 distant galaxies carried out by the powerful Hubble Space Telescope and the Keck Observatory in Hawaii.
"Lo and behold, with no warning, BX442 and its spiral galaxy just popped out of the image. We couldn't believe it!" Alice Shapley of the University of California Los Angeles told AFP of the find reported in Nature journal.
"We were not expecting such a beautiful pattern, given that the vast majority of star-forming galaxies in the early universe look so irregular and lumpy."
BX442 is the first "grand design" spiral galaxy to be observed so early in history.
Located 10.7 billion light years away, it was created some three billion years after the universe was born in a superheated flash.
A "grand design" galaxy formation is one with well-defined arms spiralling out in opposite directions from a central cluster of stars in a pattern resembling an S, like our Milky Way.
Other galaxies observed this far back in time have irregular, clumpy structures, with conditions too hot to allow them to settle down into a spiral.
"The vast majority of old galaxies look like train wrecks," said Shapley.
"The discovery of BX442 tells us that a spiral pattern can form in the early universe, which we did not know," and represents a link between early, turbulent galaxies and the rotating spiral kind we find today.
Studying BX442 may help astronomers understand how spiral galaxies form

Edited by The Ratiocinator, 04 January 2013 - 05:11 PM.

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#2 canucks#01fan

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 02:32 AM

love it
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#3 canucks#01fan

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 02:39 AM

beautiful
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#4 DarthNinja

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 02:44 AM

I read about this a few days ago and it is simply amazing!

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#5 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 12:31 AM

Published: Jul 18th, 2012
Astronomy | By Sergio Prostak


Astronomers Make Sharpest Direct Observations




Astronomers using three telescopes – APEX in Chile, SMA in Hawaii, and the Submillimeter Telescope in Arizona – have observed the heart of a distant quasar with unprecedented sharpness, two million times finer than human vision.
Posted Image
An artist’s impression of the quasar 3C 279 (ESO / M. Kornmesser)
The team was able to make the sharpest direct observation ever, of the center of a distant galaxy, the bright quasar 3C 279, which contains a supermassive black hole with a mass about one billion times that of the Sun, and is so far from Earth that its light has taken more than 5 billion years to reach us.
The telescopes were linked using a technique known as Very Long Baseline Interferometry (VLBI). Larger telescopes can make sharper observations, and interferometry allows multiple telescopes to act like a single telescope as large as the separation – or “baseline” – between them. Using VLBI, the sharpest observations can be achieved by making the separation between telescopes as large as possible.
For their quasar observations, the team used the three telescopes to create an interferometer with transcontinental baseline lengths of 9447 km from Chile to Hawaii, 7174 km from Chile to Arizona and 4627 km from Arizona to Hawaii. Connecting APEX in Chile to the network was crucial, as it contributed the longest baselines.
The observations were made in radio waves with a wavelength of 1.3 mm. This is the first time observations at a wavelength as short as this have been made using such long baselines. The observations achieved a sharpness, or angular resolution, of just 28 microarcseconds – about 8 billionths of a degree. This represents the ability to distinguish details an amazing two million times sharper than human vision. Observations this sharp can probe scales of less than a light-year across the quasar – a remarkable achievement for a target that is billions of light-years away.
The observations represent a new milestone towards imaging supermassive black holes and the regions around them. In future it is planned to connect even more telescopes in this way to create the so-called Event Horizon Telescope.
The Event Horizon Telescope will be able to image the shadow of the supermassive black hole in the center of our Milky Way galaxy, as well as others in nearby galaxies. The shadow – a dark region seen against a brighter background – is caused by the bending of light by the black hole, and would be the first direct observational evidence for the existence of a black hole’s event horizon, the boundary from within which not even light can escape.
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#6 ronthecivil

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 12:18 PM

Spiral galaxies aren't rare! We live in one! Out in the spirally arm no less!
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#7 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 12:22 PM

I was taught that the universe as we know it was formed ~6 billion years ago. A galaxy dating 11 billion years ago throws that entire belief out the window.

How exactly can we date the lifespan of a galaxy?
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#8 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 03:37 AM

Astrophile: Blobby old galaxy boasts hidden arms


Astrophile is our weekly column on curious cosmic objects, from the solar system to the far reaches of the multiverse
Object: The giant elliptical galaxy Centaurus A
Distance: About 12 million light years
Centaurus A was facing a midlife crisis. The giant elliptical galaxy's brightest stars were old and puffy, and it had nearly run out of gas needed to create new ones. The galaxy was just a featureless blob that had lost its sparkle.
Then a chance encounter allowed boring old Centaurus A to have a fling with a younger, smaller galaxy. The event revived the elder partner, triggering a fresh round of star birth and creating one of its most notable features: a dark dust lane along its middle.
In a surprise twist, new observations show the cosmic hanky-panky also caused Centaurus A to sprout two spiral arms – something no other elliptical galaxy is known to have. The discovery offers new insights into how galaxies form and evolve, and hints at a new way for spiral structure to emerge.
Shocking revelation

The bisecting dust lane led astronomers in the early 19th century to think that Centaurus A might be two separate objects lying side by side. More recent studies have shown that the dust is most likely a disc left behind by a galactic merger.
By blocking visible light, the dust also conceals the intimacies of the galaxy's steamy affair. To gather more clues, Daniel Espada of the National Astronomical Observatory of Japan and colleagues looked at Centaurus A in radio wavelengths.
These longer waves emerge from carbon monoxide gas at the galaxy's centre and can pierce the dusty veil, allowing the team to trace otherwise hidden structures. What they saw was shocking.
"We were quite surprised to find what clearly looked like spiral arms," says team member Alison Peck of the Joint ALMA Observatory in Santiago, Chile. Their images show the tentacles of gas curving around the galaxy's middle, with widths and orientations similar to those of the arms of spiral galaxies like our Milky Way.
What's more, the gas tentacles are "moving in a way that you would expect spiral arms to move", says Peck.
Gassy tendrils

Bruce Elmegreen, a spiral-structure expert at the IBM Research Division in Yorktown Heights, New York, says the arms on Centaurus A are unique because they are made of molecular gas instead of stars, the main components of the Milky Way's armsPosted Image.
"It's really unusual," says Elmegreen. Usually a disc of gas around an object rotates in such a way that the gas clumps up rather than forming long filaments.
He suspects that Centaurus A is so massive and its stars are so centrally concentrated that the galaxy's rotating core creates a huge shear effect, one that sculpted the gas into spiral structures.
Since galaxies grow via mergers, the new study suggests it is possible that spiral arms exist on other elliptical galaxies. Unfortunately, most are too far away for us to get a detailed peek.

Posted Image
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#9 Masamune

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 05:00 AM

I was taught that the universe as we know it was formed ~6 billion years ago. A galaxy dating 11 billion years ago throws that entire belief out the window.

How exactly can we date the lifespan of a galaxy?

What I learned was 13.7b years.
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#10 nucklehead

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 06:58 AM

I was told it is 6,000 years old.
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#11 Armada

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 09:09 AM

I want to be able to see that when I look up at the stars.

Beautiful.
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#12 Sharpshooter

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 09:17 AM

Spiral out. Keep going...
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#13 Heretic

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 09:25 AM

The oldest spiral galaxy found so far - cool.

I'm pretty sure we've known the approximate age of the universe for a long time...well...long as in say 50 years or so?

"The first direct observational evidence that the Universe has a finite age came from the observations of astronomer Edwin Hubble published in 1929.[16] Earlier in the 20th century, Hubble and others resolved individual stars within certain nebulae, thus determining that they were galaxies, similar to, but external to, our Milky Way Galaxy. In addition, these galaxies were very large and very far away. Spectra taken of these distant galaxies showed a red shift in their spectral lines presumably caused by theDoppler effect, thus indicating that these galaxies were moving away from the Earth. In addition, the farther away these galaxies seemed to be, the greater the redshift and thus the faster they seemed to be moving away. This was the first direct evidence that the Universe is not static but expanding. The first estimate of the age of the Universe came from the calculation of when all of the objects must have started speeding out from the same point. Hubble's initial value for age was very low, as the galaxies were assumed to be much closer than later observations found them to be."

Good info here:

http://www.universet...f-the-universe/

I can't seem to find a date when we discovered that the universe is 13.75 billion years old...
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#14 Aladeen

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 10:20 AM

Spiral galaxies aren't rare! We live in one! Out in the spirally arm no less!

I think they are saying that spiral galaxies were rare for the time this one existed in (11 Billion years ago). Spiral galaxies are common now but back 11 billion years ago they used to think there weren't any that could have formed that near to the big bang.
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#15 Aladeen

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 10:28 AM

I was taught that the universe as we know it was formed ~6 billion years ago. A galaxy dating 11 billion years ago throws that entire belief out the window.

How exactly can we date the lifespan of a galaxy?

You must have been taught that a long time ago. It has been fairly widely accepted for a long time that the universe is over 13 billion years old. Really though this number of ~13billion years is just dating back to the big bang. There are new theories which suggest that the big bang may not be the "start" of the universe but rather a major event that took place. If these theories are correct the universe may in fact be way way older than 13billion years.
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#16 J.R.

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 10:37 AM

Waits patiently for an Apple fanboy to come in here pontificating about the superior OS in the iphone.
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"Science is like an inoculation against charlatans who would have you believe whatever it is they tell you."
- Neil deGrasse Tyson

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#17 :D

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:45 AM

Wow, I didn't realize that there was much of anything before 1983
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#18 SkeeterHansen

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 01:24 PM

This space stuff is out of this world!

Save for the pun, I love these threads. They encourage me to delve into my inner astronomer.

Space is probably the coolest thing, ever.
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#19 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 02:54 PM

I was taught that the universe as we know it was formed ~6 billion years ago. A galaxy dating 11 billion years ago throws that entire belief out the window.

How exactly can we date the lifespan of a galaxy?


Easy, give it a random number they think makes sense, who's going to question them anyways? Everything is a theory, scientists and such really don't know as much as people think they do...
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#20 Aladeen

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 03:10 PM

Easy, give it a random number they think makes sense, who's going to question them anyways? Everything is a theory, scientists and such really don't know as much as people think they do...

Actually it is more than just an educated the guess. The reason they are able to come up with an approximation of the age of the universe, galaxies, stars etc. is because of the speed of light. Light takes time to travel through space and although light moves very quickly, over the vast distances in space it take an enormous amount of time to travel that far. So the deeper into space you look the futher back into time you look. You can calculate how long that light took to travel from its point of origin to the telescope into which those photons now enter. There is a veil or a block at just under 14 billion light years. This is the distance to the background radiation or in other words the big bang. Since we can't look past that veil the logic is that there is nothing before that time and hence the begining of the universe. While you are correct that it is just a theory that number is far from random and has been brought about by empirical and observed evidence.

So if the light from a spiral galaxy 11 billion light-years away is just now reaching earth, logic dictates that that galaxy is 11 billion years old.

If you look up Ole Rømer you can find out how he discovered the speed of light, its a pretty cool and his calculations from the 1600s were almost bang on what we know today is the speed of light with modern equiment used for measuring the speed.

And while you're right that scientists probably don't know as much as we think they do in reality a scientist is someone who asks questions, knowing they don't know the answer, to determine ways in which they can find the answer they are looking for.
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#21 J.R.

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 03:19 PM

And while you're right that scientists probably don't know as much as we think they do in reality a scientist is someone who asks questions, knowing they don't know the answer, to determine ways in which they can find the answer they are looking for.


Back to the the fiery pits of hell with you, you forked tongued blasphemer!!

:P
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#22 Pouria

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 05:18 PM

Actually it is more than just an educated the guess. The reason they are able to come up with an approximation of the age of the universe, galaxies, stars etc. is because of the speed of light. Light takes time to travel through space and although light moves very quickly, over the vast distances in space it take an enormous amount of time to travel that far. So the deeper into space you look the futher back into time you look. You can calculate how long that light took to travel from its point of origin to the telescope into which those photons now enter. There is a veil or a block at just under 14 billion light years. This is the distance to the background radiation or in other words the big bang. Since we can't look past that veil the logic is that there is nothing before that time and hence the begining of the universe. While you are correct that it is just a theory that number is far from random and has been brought about by empirical and observed evidence.

So if the light from a spiral galaxy 11 billion light-years away is just now reaching earth, logic dictates that that galaxy is 11 billion years old.

If you look up Ole Rømer you can find out how he discovered the speed of light, its a pretty cool and his calculations from the 1600s were almost bang on what we know today is the speed of light with modern equiment used for measuring the speed.

And while you're right that scientists probably don't know as much as we think they do in reality a scientist is someone who asks questions, knowing they don't know the answer, to determine ways in which they can find the answer they are looking for.


Who knows when the universe was created. I question the big bang theory since there isn't any conclusive evidence to this "big bang" that created the universe. How do we even know that there was a big bang? The universe could be 300 billion years old or it could be 14 billion years old. At least we could find out what the age of Earth is through carbon dating but not sure how we could validate the age of universe.

Edited by Pouria, 28 September 2012 - 05:19 PM.

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#23 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 06:43 PM

Who knows when the universe was created. I question the big bang theory since there isn't any conclusive evidence to this "big bang" that created the universe. How do we even know that there was a big bang? The universe could be 300 billion years old or it could be 14 billion years old. At least we could find out what the age of Earth is through carbon dating but not sure how we could validate the age of universe.


Exactly, I don't believe in the big bang.
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#24 nucklehead

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 10:06 PM

Actually it is more than just an educated the guess. The reason they are able to come up with an approximation of the age of the universe, galaxies, stars etc. is because of the speed of light. Light takes time to travel through space and although light moves very quickly, over the vast distances in space it take an enormous amount of time to travel that far. So the deeper into space you look the futher back into time you look. You can calculate how long that light took to travel from its point of origin to the telescope into which those photons now enter. There is a veil or a block at just under 14 billion light years. This is the distance to the background radiation or in other words the big bang. Since we can't look past that veil the logic is that there is nothing before that time and hence the begining of the universe. While you are correct that it is just a theory that number is far from random and has been brought about by empirical and observed evidence.

So if the light from a spiral galaxy 11 billion light-years away is just now reaching earth, logic dictates that that galaxy is 11 billion years old.

If you look up Ole Rømer you can find out how he discovered the speed of light, its a pretty cool and his calculations from the 1600s were almost bang on what we know today is the speed of light with modern equiment used for measuring the speed.

And while you're right that scientists probably don't know as much as we think they do in reality a scientist is someone who asks questions, knowing they don't know the answer, to determine ways in which they can find the answer they are looking for.

And how is it determined that the light has just now reached here? Because a scientist just noticed? It's a very big universe, it's not like we can keep tabs of every point of light nor have been up to now.

Edited by nucklehead, 28 September 2012 - 10:07 PM.

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#25 LostViking

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:00 PM

And how is it determined that the light has just now reached here? Because a scientist just noticed? It's a very big universe, it's not like we can keep tabs of every point of light nor have been up to now.


What they are saying is that the light that is currently reaching Earth, that originated from this galaxy, took 11 billion years to reach Earth, given that the speed of light is constant, this galaxy must have been emitting light, and therefore been in existence, 11 billion years ago. No scientist would say it couldn't be older, evidence for that has not been observed, but the light currently being emitted shows a remarkably well formed galaxy and that process is supposed to take a very long time.
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#26 Sharpshooter

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:15 PM

And how is it determined that the light has just now reached here? Because a scientist just noticed? It's a very big universe, it's not like we can keep tabs of every point of light nor have been up to now.


I hope this helps answer your question and concern:


Why the Light Travel Time Distance should not be used in Press Releases

Since public information offices in the US never want to mention the redshift of an object, distances are usually given as light travel time distances. This has one simple property: the distance in light years is never greater than the age of the Universe in years, avoiding at least one appearance of speeds greater than the speed of light.

This doesn't really satisfy the simplicity requirement, because a numerate listener will ask: if a distant cluster of galaxies is 9.1 billion light years away in a universe that is 13.7 billion years old, how did the cluster get so far away in only 4.6 billion years? If must have been travelling faster than the speed of light! Apparently it takes several minutes for this question to arise, and by that time the presenters are out the door. So I get an E-mail.

So here I will list the reasons why this press office policy is really dumb:

The redshift z is usually the only number in the whole story that is unambiguous and likely to be correct.

Distance is defined as the spatial separation at a common time. It makes no sense to talk about the difference in spatial positions of a distant galaxy seen 9.1 billion years ago and the Milky Way now when galaxies are moving.

If an SR-71 blackbird flies over at Mach 3 and you hear the sound 30 seconds later, then answer to the question "How far away is it?" is clearly not 30 "sound seconds" or 10 km.

The Universe is homogeneous and isotropic, so it has no edge. Thus there cannot be a maximum distance. Distances greater than speed of light times the age of the Universe are commonplace. But a uniform grid in the Universe shown at left below is very non-uniform when plotted using the light travel time distance, as shown at right below:

Posted Image



The Hubble law is satisfied exactly for "distance now", or metric radial distance. In fact the Hubble law with time variable Hubble parameter is satisfied exactly at all times by the metric radial distance D(t) which is the spatial separation at the common time t, so
"velocity" = dD/dt = H(t)D(t).

This is not true for the light travel time distance. The rate of change of the light travel time distance with observation time is always
dDltt/dt = cz/(1+z)

which generally disagrees with the Hubble law as shown below:

Posted Image


As a service to astronomers who are frustrated by press releases that give only light travel times and not redshifts, here is a version of cosmology calculator that takes the light travel time and computes the redshift. Of course you need to know the cosmological parameters the PAO used when hiding the useful information, but this calculator defaults to the WMAP 1st year Ho = 71 and OmegaM = 0.27 flat Lambda-CDM cosmology.

http://www.astro.ucl...tt_is_Dumb.html


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#27 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 01:19 AM

Who knows when the universe was created. I question the big bang theory since there isn't any conclusive evidence to this "big bang" that created the universe. How do we even know that there was a big bang? The universe could be 300 billion years old or it could be 14 billion years old. At least we could find out what the age of Earth is through carbon dating but not sure how we could validate the age of universe.


The Age Of The Universe



Posted ImageAfter several debates, astronomers have determined the age of the universe by using a Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe. By examining the microwave background radiation that WMAP provided, astronomers were able to pin down the age of the universe, accurate to 1%, to 13.7 billion years old.

from the interesting facts website .
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#28 Tortorella's Rant

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 01:40 AM

11 billion years? Not that long. I could wait it out.
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#29 Tortorella's Rant

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 01:42 AM

Fascinating nonetheless. deGrasse Tyson must be drooling over this right now.
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#30 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 01:45 AM

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Hubble Portrays a Dusty Spiral Galaxy
09.28.12
The NASA/ESA Hubble Space Telescope has provided us with another outstanding image of a nearby galaxy. This week, we highlight the galaxy NGC 4183, seen here with a beautiful backdrop of distant galaxies and nearby stars. Located about 55 million light-years from the sun and spanning about eighty thousand light-years, NGC 4183 is a little smaller than the Milky Way. This galaxy, which belongs to the Ursa Major Group, lies in the northern constellation of Canes Venatici (The Hunting Dogs).

NGC 4183 is a spiral galaxy with a faint core and an open spiral structure. Unfortunately, this galaxy is viewed edge-on from the Earth, and we cannot fully appreciate its spiral arms. But we can admire its galactic disk.

The disks of galaxies are mainly composed of gas, dust and stars. There is evidence of dust over the galactic plane, visible as dark intricate filaments that block the visible light from the core of the galaxy. In addition, recent studies suggest that this galaxy may have a bar structure. Galactic bars are thought to act as a mechanism that channels gas from the spiral arms to the center, enhancing star formation, which is typically more pronounced in the spiral arms than in the bulge of the galaxy.

British astronomer William Herschel first observed NGC 4183 on 14 January 1778.

This picture was created from visible and infrared images taken with the Wide Field Channel of the Advanced Camera for Surveys. The field of view is approximately 3.4 arcminutes wide.

This image uses data identified by Luca Limatola in the Hubble's Hidden Treasures image processing competition.

Posted Image


Hubble Catches Glowing Gas and Dark Dust in a Side-On Spiral
09.21.12
The NASA/ESA Hubble Space Telescope has produced a sharp image of NGC 4634, a spiral galaxy seen exactly side-on. Its disk is slightly warped by ongoing interactions with a nearby galaxy, and it is crisscrossed by clearly defined dust lanes and bright nebulae.

NGC 4634, which lies around 70 million light-years from Earth in the constellation of Coma Berenices, is one of a pair of interacting galaxies. Its neighbor, NGC 4633, lies just outside the upper right corner of the frame, and is visible in wide-field views of the galaxy. While it may be out of sight, it is not out of mind: its subtle effects on NGC 4634 are easy to see to a well-trained eye.

Gravitational interactions pull the neat spiral forms of galaxies out of shape as they get closer to each other, and the disruption to gas clouds triggers vigorous episodes of star formation. While this galaxy’s spiral pattern is not directly visible thanks to our side-on perspective, its disk is slightly warped, and there is clear evidence of star formation.

Along the full length of the galaxy, and scattered around parts of its halo, are bright pink nebulae. Similar to the Orion Nebula in the Milky Way, these are clouds of gas that are gradually coalescing into stars. The powerful radiation from the stars excites the gas and makes it light up, much like a fluorescent sign. The large number of these star formation regions is a telltale sign of gravitational interaction.

The dark filamentary structures that are scattered along the length of the galaxy are caused by cold interstellar dust blocking some of the starlight.

Hubble’s image is a combination of exposures in visible light produced by Hubble’s Advanced Camera for Surveys and the Wide Field and Planetary Camera 2.
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I think it's rad when balls beats natural talent

Shaun Palmer

 

The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi





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