arsenalian Posted July 23, 2012 Author Share Posted July 23, 2012 Nucks need to get tougher and Kassian is not the guy who is gonna do it on his own. Nucks need someone in the Matt Martin mould, suprised nobody hit on the toughness issue when Gillis was fielding questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenSurgeon Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Right or worng, it sounds to me Gillis is saying we will stay the course on the team we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arsenalian Posted July 23, 2012 Author Share Posted July 23, 2012 Right or worng, it sounds to me Gillis is saying we will stay the course on the team we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kesler's Nose Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 The fact that you want Semin means your on crack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCammer Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Well if he had sent him an off sheet first, his choice would be to sign it or stay in Nashville. Your telling me he wouldn't play for the Canucks if we offered to sign him? I don't buy that. My guess is Gillis just wasn't willing to pay him what it would have taken to get him here. Philly was, and now there's a good chance they'll get him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Well he is pursuing Doan, let Salo go, signed Garrison, will be trying to move Luongo, locked up Schneider. How is that staying the course. It's not like you're going to completely blow up a team that made it to game 7 of the finals, and won the Prez trophy 2 years in a row. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keslerian one Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I have a feeling that Nashville will match Weber's offer sheet, and all these people who criticize MG for not being able to sign Weber will understand that MG was right. Nashville essentially had that kind of money when it lined up to sign Suter. Remember Nashville said all along that it planned on signing both Suter and Weber? It's not the money issue; it's a matter of whether Weber wants to say in Nashville that will determine what Poile does (i.e. whether trade him to Philly by getting some roster players + picks, rather than four 1st rounders; or matching and having Weber for 10+ years). MG is right - if you want to get Weber, long term offer sheet was not the route to take, because Poile will match it. Why wouldn't he want to match their franchise player? Canucks surely couldn't trade for Weber, because we don't have the assets that NYR or Phil doess. Basically his ONLY option was to convince Weber to play in Vancouver. Weber chose to cash out before the current CBA expired - which he is totally entitled to do. It's ludicrous for people to think that a professional player would give up one of the very few opportunities one gets as an athlete to test the market and make big money, just because he was born in that region. Oh wait - this is almost EXACTLY what MG said, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arsenalian Posted July 23, 2012 Author Share Posted July 23, 2012 Sadly I think winning the President's trophy again was a bad thing. Too much incentive for Gillis to stay the same even though we had serious weaknesses in the playoffs. Yes locking Schneider up (although 3 years isn't great), is a good thing. It's not like he had a choice. Luongo publicly said he wants out, so now Gillis has to make that move. Garrison is a great addition, but not that much better than Salo as far making us a stronger team. Right now alot hinges on getting Doan, otherwise we could be going into next season, with more or less the same team. Which is not the same caliber team that made it to game 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drybone Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 This is all I care about. This and the departure of Luongo and what we get back for him. At least Gillis isn't like Scott Howsen and is waiting for the right deal with Luongo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCammer Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Honestly, you're probably right about us not being able to get him because of Philly's ridiculous offer. But to not even make a serious attempt is kind of disheartening. They clearly had strong interest in him, but weren't willing to back it up with anything substantial. I'm not saying they should have offered that kind of money, but something in the ballpark of that would have at least given us a chance. I mean, if they can offer Luongo 64 million over 12 years, can they not offer Weber something like 90 million over 12? It's not like the owners don't have that kind of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drybone Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 You are way off base on this one. He obviously presented at least two options. The one that the Canucks had the best opportunity is the one year deal, Nashville matches and we compete in the UFA next year. He states Weber wasn't interested due to the unknown outcome of the CBA. In other words Weber wanted to get a contract in place for multiple years and huge money that would be protected despite the outcome of the CBA negotiations. I don't think this guy is perfect but he tells it pretty much like it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Agree with you on all points. Just replying to the other poster there, that he's not really staying the course, whether that's by his choice or not. I expect he's waiting on a Doan decision, and when that happens dominoes will start to fall. Hopefully we'll have Doan, or if not, hopefully Luongo is moved for some other pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drybone Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I didn't mean signed here. lol If we get Doan we can't afford him.. I meant more along the lines of "that's pretty much the last thing" after (Lu and Doan) to be wrapped up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Indeed, the issue is probably that Gillis did not pony up the money that Philly did. But, it's still not a failure. Gillis still in all likelihood made a fantastic offer. Weber rejected it. What more can be done? The only thing that could have been done is for Gillis to match Philly's offer, which he might not have even gotten the chance to do. Even if he did, though, I don't have a problem with him walking away from such a ridiculously front loaded offer. Also, so many of you are caught up in this notion that the Canucks NEED Weber. That is false. He would be a fabulous addition to this team but Philly is a better example of a team that needed Weber as that final piece. Chris Pronger will likely not play another game in the NHL due to his concussion and Timonen is getting up there and nearing retirement. That left them with a D core of Coburn, Meszaros, Schenn and Grossmann. They obviously needed a top end defensemen to compliment that core, whereas the Canucks already have a very good top 4 in Edler, Hamhuis, Bieksa and Garrison. In short, Gillis didn't have the desperation that Holmgren had, and rightfully so. He had no reason to be as desperate, yet he still made a 3 hour presentation to Weber and his agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bd71 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Well it sounds whiney to me. I say one bad thing about Gillis and I get 4 people trying to attack me. He said they were thinking about making him a 1 year offer because they thought Nashville would match. Bottom line is, Weber was never going to seriously sign a 1 year offer sheet, when there was clearly going to be other teams offering more. He didn't even make a competitive offer for Weber to consider. So it has nothing to do with him wanting to play here or not, it has to do with us not even offering him anything enticing. Nashville said they would match because they wanted to protect their player. Philly called their bluff, and now they might reap the rewards from it. If Gillis had at least offered a multi year contract with a big signing bonus, I would be happy. But this was a feeble attempt on his part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 If this wasn't a CBA year, then perhaps Weber would've considered signing a 1yr offer sheet to become UFA, but seeing as it is, that move might have cost him millions of dollars. I don't blame Weber for signing the Philly offersheet. It represents the best chance for him to make mega bucks AND get out of Nashville, seeing as Nashville would likely match any western conference rival's offer and keep Weber for at least a year. Philly they've done plenty of big trades with before and they might be able to live with Weber moving over to the east. But we'll see. Still, the 'no excuse for Gillis' reasoning should apply. If Nashville doesn't match, then obviously people here arre going to be upset. Philly is just more accustomed to making huge moves in the off-season. They've been planning this for awhile now, obviously. Their trade history treats Nashville like it's own farm club. While ours is Florida. If Weber was a Panther, then the odds of getting him here asap shoot through the roof. Oh well. At this point there's only so much whining about it you can do. Couple more days and we'll know if they match or not. Y'know... There is the possibility that Weber just didn't want to play in Vancouver... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortorella's Rant Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Nucks need to get tougher and Kassian is not the guy who is gonna do it on his own. Nucks need someone in the Matt Martin mould, suprised nobody hit on the toughness issue when Gillis was fielding questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drybone Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 The indication of the one year offer sheet to try and get Weber next year as a UFA was interesting as I didn't think they'd go that route, but I agree on the other points. Gillis could have tried to do a massive offer like Philly's, but in the end Weber opted for the larger money and term with Philly rather than playing in Nashville for another year then coming here. The 3 hours of the meeting definitely cements how serious the Canucks were. On top of their internal meetings, they came to Weber with at least the one option and their thoughts on Nashville matching anything they put up anyways. We don't know Weber's thoughts on that, apart from he has some hope that Nashville won't match Philly's offer, but he certainly declined a one year offer sheet that would have been matched by Nashville and given Weber the freedom to go where he chooses come this time next year. He took advantage of the current CBAs conditions while they lasted and signed the biggest contract he could. That doesn't indicate fault for anyone: I don't like the deal and that Holmgren offered it, but it was withing his rights to do so. I do like that Gillis didn't offer the same but at least seriously explored the options available to him, which were also in his rights to do so. Weber has to choose what's right for him, not what is most likely to let him play close to home, completely his right to do so. Certainly, a 3 hour meeting wasn't just Gillis asking if Weber would do a one year offer sheet, and then tea and crumpets while they talk about religion and politics. And that's the point for Nashville, is paying out that amount of cash early on get evened out longer term by the increased number of playoff games (and free revenue) they'd get and the fans they'd keep with Weber around? Is letting him go worth the money lost dropping your fan base to a rebuild and your potential to draw in higher end players via trade and free agency? Nashville's marginally profitable as it is, and even if they end up losing slightly financially by matching, it'll probably be better for the franchise in the long run. Remember, they were looking to retain Suter as well as Weber and at least investigated the possibility of Parise, so they must be somewhat prepared to pay to keep this team competitive. ---------------------------- Ok, enough on Weber, I've already belaboured my point to deaf ears in other threads. As far as the other things brought up (I couldn't listen at work) it's interesting to hear how impressed they are by Corrado, and look to be giving our prospects more of a chance rather than keep using the same depth they've had for some time. Having a chance (likely a higher percentage chance that we had at Weber) at Doan, and trying to work with Kassian to make sure he comes to camp ready are also important points. That's logical enough. There might be more to it than that, but that could well be the core of it along with the offers not being quite as impressive as he'd like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Y'know... There is the possibility that Weber just didn't want to play in Vancouver... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 The tendency for teams to trade stars outside their conference is often overlooked. Thornton to SJ. Heatley to SJ. Nash to NYR. Smyth to NYI. Richards to LA. Carter to CBJ. Ribeiro to WSH. Buff to ATL. etc. Not all the time, but generally, teams and players rarely want to face their old teams often. On that note, Weber was never going to be 'allowed' to go to Vancouver, Detroit or any other western team rival that could really use him. GM's know this as well as players. This is why Philly made the offer and why Weber signed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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