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#151 Hugemanskost

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 12:24 PM

like it or not, it won them the game.

this is the state of socc.. er, football. it's a game that is won and lost by cheating on one level or another.

as much as i felt annoyed by the outcome of the game, as a fan of the sport, i'm also just aware that it's how the soccer cookie crumbles.

i was shocked at how poor the quality of play was at times. it's weird to see how talented some players are, and how poor others were. did you see towards the end of the game where the ball was literally bouncing right outside the 6 yard box in front of the american keeper?

at what level of play do you learn to clear the ball from the goal area? that is more or less the first rule of the sport, and here they are letting it happen in the olympics. haha.


I agree with your "state of the game" comment, GLASSJAW. It just gets so frustrating. It's in every sport, too, not just footy.

And the quality of play was poor, at times. I coach Senior Boy's Soccer here in Dawson Creek and the boys know not to let the ball bounce. Once it hits the ground, anything can happen. Look at the US goal from the corner. Shambolic on so many levels.

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#152 Hugemanskost

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 12:29 PM

It looked more to me like her back foot made contact with the fallen body and she instinctively repositioned herself and the foot landed on the side of the head. There's no way you can derive malicious intent from a player that's hopping to reposition themselves. She didn't 'stomp' on her either.

I've done that and had it happen to me while playing football, rugby, floor hockey. I've never intended to hit or hurt someone but when you're hopping around and your mind is focusing on the play in front of you, sometime a limb lands on or comes into contact with an opposing player, or even teammate, unintentionally.


We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, Sharpie!

Looks to me like a total stomp. It looks like Tancredi accelerates her foot down and backwards at Lloyd's cranium.

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#153 GLASSJAW

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 12:30 PM

It looked more to me like her back foot made contact with the fallen body and she instinctively repositioned herself and the foot landed on the side of the head. There's no way you can derive malicious intent from a player that's hopping to reposition themselves. She didn't 'stomp' on her either.

I've done that and had it happen to me while playing football, rugby, floor hockey. I've never intended to hit or hurt someone but when you're hopping around and your mind is focusing on the play in front of you, sometime a limb lands on or comes into contact with an opposing player, or even teammate, unintentionally.


despite what your beer league floor hockey rules may be, in soccer, this would be a card 9 times out of 10
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#154 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 12:31 PM

It looked more to me like her back foot made contact with the fallen body and she instinctively repositioned herself and the foot landed on the side of the head. There's no way you can derive malicious intent from a player that's hopping to reposition themselves. She didn't 'stomp' on her either.

I've done that and had it happen to me while playing football, rugby, floor hockey. I've never intended to hit or hurt someone but when you're hopping around and your mind is focusing on the play in front of you, sometime a limb lands on or comes into contact with an opposing player, or even teammate, unintentionally.


My thoughts exactly.......and while Tancredi played with a bit of a nasty edge the entire game.......attributing malicious intent to that move looks like it could be a bit of a reach. Unfortunately the prior fouls with that nasty edge may be seen as a precedent for the contact with Lloyd's head regardless of whether it was 'incidental contact' or 'deliberate'.

I've had that happen to me to when playing soccer and it's the first thing I thought of when I saw the vid.......been there, done that, nothing malicious involved ...just trying to reposition yourself without losing your centre of gravity so as to still be on balance and in position for the continuation of the game.

That said......the vid...to people who haven't played sports......... looks pretty damning, I'm sure. :(

And I'm sure the only reason the US media are all over this is because Canada didn't fold their tents and slink quietly away with their tails between their legs after that travesty of a soccer match yesterday.

Edited by Bertuzzi Babe, 07 August 2012 - 12:35 PM.

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#155 GLASSJAW

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 12:32 PM

unbelievable
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#156 Hugemanskost

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 12:42 PM

My thoughts exactly.......and while Tancredi played with a bit of a nasty edge the entire game.......attributing malicious intent to that move looks like it could be a bit of a reach. Unfortunately the prior fouls with that nasty edge may be seen as a precedent for the contact with Lloyd's head regardless of whether it was 'incidental contact' or 'deliberate'.

I've had that happen to me to when playing soccer and it's the first thing I thought of when I saw the vid.......been there, done that, nothing malicious involved ...just trying to reposition yourself without losing your centre of gravity so as to still be on balance and in position for the continuation of the game.

That said......the vid...to people who haven't played sports......... looks pretty damning, I'm sure. :(

And I'm sure the only reason the US media are all over this is because Canada didn't fold their tents and slink quietly away with their tails between their legs after that travesty of a soccer match yesterday.


You're bang on about Tancredi playing on the edge yesterday, BB. I don't know the numbers but, Tancredi probably had half a dozen fouls. If the ref had control, she would have cautioned a number of players for persistent fouling including Tancredi.

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#157 goalie13

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 12:57 PM

That said......the vid...to people who haven't played sports......... looks pretty damning, I'm sure. :(


I do play sports, but from that angle in the video it does look pretty damning.

Still, I think it goes more to the ineptitude of the ref than any Canada vs US talk. Even if she did stomp, that doesn't make the other calls fair.
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#158 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 12:58 PM

But see how it looks to people that follow Women's Soccer outside of Canada.

Leading up to the game, Canada was complaining about the US using "illegal" tactics in their set pieces.
Afterwords, they are complaining about the officiating.

This is the perfect time for Canada to show how professional and gracious they are by going at France as hard as they can, and keeping their mouths shut in doing so.



Easy to say when you're sitting in your armchair watching on TV.

Try putting yourself in the position of those ladies. After an extremely disappointing World Cup, here they are with the upset of the World's #1 team and a shot at gold in their sights, only to have it stolen away by a technicality which is never called.

For some of these women, including the finest footballer to ever represent Canada, this may have been the last chance they ever get. I'm reasonably sure that they would tell you to take your "be professional and gracious" and shove it.
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Posted 07 August 2012 - 01:29 PM

Easy to say when you're sitting in your armchair watching on TV.

Try putting yourself in the position of those ladies. After an extremely disappointing World Cup, here they are with the upset of the World's #1 team and a shot at gold in their sights, only to have it stolen away by a technicality which is never called.

For some of these women, including the finest footballer to ever represent Canada, this may have been the last chance they ever get. I'm reasonably sure that they would tell you to take your "be professional and gracious" and shove it.


Well, it might cost Canada an additional medal if suspensions come down instead of fines. Canada had a chance to take the high road here and they didn't take it. The Canadian women were fighting for respect on an international stage and I don't believe this is how to do it. Some people need to take a step back from this issue though. You're right though, it is easy for me to say and I'm in the same position as anyone else is this thread. I was very disappointed when they lost and but even moreso when I heard them handle it poorly.

I had laughed at some of the responses in this thread because it ranged the gamut from asserting that Women's Soccer must be fixed to justifying whining about it because (apparently) the US would have done the same if they lost(!!!). I'm not trying to play devil's advocate here, I am legitimately taken aback at how petty some fans are and have discarded their Olympic spirit for sour grapes.
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#160 Champions of Nothing

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 01:38 PM

Well, it might cost Canada an additional medal if suspensions come down instead of fines. Canada had a chance to take the high road here and they didn't take it. The Canadian women were fighting for respect on an international stage and I don't believe this is how to do it. Some people need to take a step back from this issue though. You're right though, it is easy for me to say and I'm in the same position as anyone else is this thread. I was very disappointed when they lost and but even moreso when I heard them handle it poorly.

I had laughed at some of the responses in this thread because it ranged the gamut from asserting that Women's Soccer must be fixed to justifying whining about it because (apparently) the US would have done the same if they lost(!!!). I'm not trying to play devil's advocate here, I am legitimately taken aback at how petty some fans are and have discarded their Olympic spirit for sour grapes.

That's the official motto of the IDAA (Intentional Devil's Advocate Association).
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#161 ckamo

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 01:43 PM

I wasn't justifying it by saying the US would have done the same. I was stating a fact that the US media, fans, and players would be ALL over it...even more so than Canadians if the tables were turned. Do I wish the Canadians hadn't said what they said? No. I'm glad Sinclair finally spoke her mind. She felt she was robbed of an earned win and she has the right to be upset about it. Perhaps her insinuation that the match was fixed was unwarranted but I'm glad she voiced her displeasure over the officiating which, as I've said over and over, was atrocious for both teams.
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#162 :D

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 01:45 PM

That's the official motto of the IDAA (Intentional Devil's Advocate Association).


Actually, it's Internet Commenting Against Mad Event-watchers (ICAME for short)
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#163 :D

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 01:48 PM

I wasn't justifying it by saying the US would have done the same. I was stating a fact that the US media, fans, and players would be ALL over it...even more so than Canadians if the tables were turned.


The US has a reputation internationally for being poor-mannered, loudmouths. Canadians have exactly the opposite image and I am very proud of that. Regardless of how much worse it would have been if it had happened to an American team, it doesn't excuse Canadians abroad to act uncouthly.
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#164 ckamo

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 01:49 PM

You're bang on about Tancredi playing on the edge yesterday, BB. I don't know the numbers but, Tancredi probably had half a dozen fouls. If the ref had control, she would have cautioned a number of players for persistent fouling including Tancredi.

7 fouls committed by Tancredi. The yellow came off of trash talking the ref.
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#165 ckamo

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 01:51 PM

re: Wambach's counting:
John Herdman just had his conference call with Canadian Media..:
: "wambach knos how to win football mathes. she's a model pro... Good on them. She"ll do whatever it takes to win. Our players can learn from that. Shows Abby's experience. She's been in the game a long time."
via Kara Lang's twitter
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#166 Tru_Knyte

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:20 PM

Still think the whole thing was an absolute joke.
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#167 nuckin_futz

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:33 PM

Article from Dan Wetzel who writes for "Yahoo".


Abby Wambach's brains provided crucial assist to U.S. women's soccer's comeback against Canada

MANCHESTER, England – Abby Wambach has won games for the United States women's soccer team with her goal scoring.
On Monday, she helped the Americans dramatically defeat Canada 4-3 in an Olympic semifinal with her brains, guile and gamesmanship by delivering a crucial and controversial refereeing decision.While the original call angered the Canadians at the time, coach John Herdman applauded Wambach's "do-anything-to-win-matches" attitude on Tuesday.

It was no secret Canada's strategy against the deeper, more talented Americans was to slow the game down. That included, Wambach said, having goalkeeper Erin McLeod hold the ball as long as possible, even over 15 seconds at times during the first half. Soccer rules say the goalkeeper must get rid of the ball within six seconds.

During the second half, with the U.S. frantically trying to speed up the game while attempting multiple comebacks, Wambach began running near referee Christiana Pedersen and counting off the seconds that McLeod held the ball. She said she often got to 10 and into even the teens.

"I wasn't yelling. I was just counting," Wambach revealed Tuesday during an interview at the team hotel. "Probably did it five to seven times."

The last time came in the 78th minute, with Canada trying to milk a 3-2 lead. McLeod made a save, and Wambach began counting again.

"I got to 10 seconds right next to the referee, and at 10 seconds she blew the whistle," Wambach said.

The call was for delay of game. There was confusion on the field, because it was an exceedingly rare decision. Not another American or Canadian player or coach remembers the call ever being made, let alone in such crucial moments of an international tournament.

Regardless, the result was an indirect kick for the Americans inside the Canadian box. That kick wound up hitting a Canadian defender's hand, which meant a penalty kick for the Americans.

Wambach stepped up to the spot in the 80th minute and drilled a low shot off the left post and into the net to tie the game. In the final minute of stoppage time in the last overtime session, the USA's Alex Morgan headed a cross past McLeod for the incredible game winner.

Canada fumed, both during and after the game. Canadian star Christine Sinclair went as far as to charge the referee with deciding before the game that she would do whatever it took to help the Americans win.

"We feel like we didn't lose," Sinclair said. "We feel like it was taken from us. It's a shame in a game like that, which is so important, that the ref decided the result before the game started."

McLeod, the goalkeeper, claimed she had the ball a far shorter time and the ref shouldn't have included the few seconds it took for her to get up off the ground. She also said she was never warned by Pedersen herself; she merely was given a general reminder about speeding up play from a linesman at halftime.

"We feel like we got robbed in this game," McLeod said.

Wambach disputes that, saying that after she started the counting routine Pedersen continually told McLeod to speed up play and McLeod would acknowledge it by raising her hand to the referee.

The more times Wambach counted, the more impossible it became for the referee to ignore the delays and thus not make the call.

"Yes it's uncharacteristic," Wambach said. "But the rules are the rules. You can say it's gamesmanship, you can say it's smart, but I'm a competitor. We needed to get a goal. They're trying to waste time; I'm trying to speed it up."

Wambach's teammates say that game awareness and brilliance is part of what makes her a superstar. The 5-foot-11 forward isn't just a physical presence with a knack for scoring – she has a goal in all five U.S. games in this tournament.

The 32-year-old veteran from Pittsford, N.Y., knows soccer, is constantly aware of how the game is developing around her, and is practically a coach on the field.

"You need to be aware of the game at all times," Morgan said. "And Abby was just making the ref aware."

Herdman, the Canadian coach, was asked about Wambach's admission and tipped his hat to the player. While he said his players can learn from her, he wouldn't ask them to do any counting in the future.

"If Abby has done that, good on her," Herdman said. "Wambach's a great player, she's a pro, she knows how to win matches. … She found a loophole. Our players can learn from that."

Wambach said she was ready for the delay tactics due to previous games with the Canadians in which they often attempted to stall. She recalled one game in which she claims there was a "planned 20-minute cramping their goalkeeper took."

So with their gold-medal chances hanging in the balance and every precious second meaning so much, the Americans' great talent figured out how to change the course of the game with her intelligence.

Wambach kept counting until it couldn't be ignored.

"I think making the referee aware of a situation, there is nothing wrong with that," Wambach said. "At the end of the day, the ref made the decision on her own."

And the U.S. used it to advance to Thursday's gold-medal game with Japan back in London.


http://sports.yahoo....nst-canada.html

Edited by nuckin_futz, 07 August 2012 - 02:37 PM.

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#168 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:44 PM

The US has a reputation internationally for being poor-mannered, loudmouths. Canadians have exactly the opposite image and I am very proud of that. Regardless of how much worse it would have been if it had happened to an American team, it doesn't excuse Canadians abroad to act uncouthly.


So, what you're saying essentially is "Suck it up, Princess. You're making me look bad!".....
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#169 Champions of Nothing

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:53 PM

Article from Dan Wetzel who writes for "Yahoo".


Abby Wambach's brains provided crucial assist to U.S. women's soccer's comeback against Canada

MANCHESTER, England – Abby Wambach has won games for the United States women's soccer team with her goal scoring.
On Monday, she helped the Americans dramatically defeat Canada 4-3 in an Olympic semifinal with her brains, guile and gamesmanship by delivering a crucial and controversial refereeing decision.While the original call angered the Canadians at the time, coach John Herdman applauded Wambach's "do-anything-to-win-matches" attitude on Tuesday.

It was no secret Canada's strategy against the deeper, more talented Americans was to slow the game down. That included, Wambach said, having goalkeeper Erin McLeod hold the ball as long as possible, even over 15 seconds at times during the first half. Soccer rules say the goalkeeper must get rid of the ball within six seconds.

During the second half, with the U.S. frantically trying to speed up the game while attempting multiple comebacks, Wambach began running near referee Christiana Pedersen and counting off the seconds that McLeod held the ball. She said she often got to 10 and into even the teens.

"I wasn't yelling. I was just counting," Wambach revealed Tuesday during an interview at the team hotel. "Probably did it five to seven times."

The last time came in the 78th minute, with Canada trying to milk a 3-2 lead. McLeod made a save, and Wambach began counting again.

"I got to 10 seconds right next to the referee, and at 10 seconds she blew the whistle," Wambach said.

The call was for delay of game. There was confusion on the field, because it was an exceedingly rare decision. Not another American or Canadian player or coach remembers the call ever being made, let alone in such crucial moments of an international tournament.

Regardless, the result was an indirect kick for the Americans inside the Canadian box. That kick wound up hitting a Canadian defender's hand, which meant a penalty kick for the Americans.

Wambach stepped up to the spot in the 80th minute and drilled a low shot off the left post and into the net to tie the game. In the final minute of stoppage time in the last overtime session, the USA's Alex Morgan headed a cross past McLeod for the incredible game winner.

Canada fumed, both during and after the game. Canadian star Christine Sinclair went as far as to charge the referee with deciding before the game that she would do whatever it took to help the Americans win.

"We feel like we didn't lose," Sinclair said. "We feel like it was taken from us. It's a shame in a game like that, which is so important, that the ref decided the result before the game started."

McLeod, the goalkeeper, claimed she had the ball a far shorter time and the ref shouldn't have included the few seconds it took for her to get up off the ground. She also said she was never warned by Pedersen herself; she merely was given a general reminder about speeding up play from a linesman at halftime.

"We feel like we got robbed in this game," McLeod said.

Wambach disputes that, saying that after she started the counting routine Pedersen continually told McLeod to speed up play and McLeod would acknowledge it by raising her hand to the referee.

The more times Wambach counted, the more impossible it became for the referee to ignore the delays and thus not make the call.

"Yes it's uncharacteristic," Wambach said. "But the rules are the rules. You can say it's gamesmanship, you can say it's smart, but I'm a competitor. We needed to get a goal. They're trying to waste time; I'm trying to speed it up."

Wambach's teammates say that game awareness and brilliance is part of what makes her a superstar. The 5-foot-11 forward isn't just a physical presence with a knack for scoring – she has a goal in all five U.S. games in this tournament.

The 32-year-old veteran from Pittsford, N.Y., knows soccer, is constantly aware of how the game is developing around her, and is practically a coach on the field.

"You need to be aware of the game at all times," Morgan said. "And Abby was just making the ref aware."

Herdman, the Canadian coach, was asked about Wambach's admission and tipped his hat to the player. While he said his players can learn from her, he wouldn't ask them to do any counting in the future.

"If Abby has done that, good on her," Herdman said. "Wambach's a great player, she's a pro, she knows how to win matches. … She found a loophole. Our players can learn from that."

Wambach said she was ready for the delay tactics due to previous games with the Canadians in which they often attempted to stall. She recalled one game in which she claims there was a "planned 20-minute cramping their goalkeeper took."

So with their gold-medal chances hanging in the balance and every precious second meaning so much, the Americans' great talent figured out how to change the course of the game with her intelligence.

Wambach kept counting until it couldn't be ignored.

"I think making the referee aware of a situation, there is nothing wrong with that," Wambach said. "At the end of the day, the ref made the decision on her own."

And the U.S. used it to advance to Thursday's gold-medal game with Japan back in London.


http://sports.yahoo....nst-canada.html

The bolded line made me laugh and then shake my head. What sensationalist drivel.
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#170 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:56 PM

The bolded line made me laugh and then shake my head. What sensationalist drivel.


Yeah. It reminds me of Ronaldo in the World Cup saying that a well-executed dive is a valid strategy and should be admired....
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#171 pimpcurtly

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 03:02 PM

Apparently Bettman and co were so impressed with the Norwegian ref yesterday, that they sent her a gift basket in an attempt to WOO the young ref to the NHL.






:P
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#172 jannik freaking hansen

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 03:08 PM

so much for freedom of speech..............why would FIFA do this? they just as corrupt as the ref so they should be independent investigation...........sigh


That's the thing, when has FIFA ever suspended anyone over post-game comments especially without a warning. If this was the men's game you would never hear such a thing from FIFA.Guess they want to throw the book at someone might as well be a women, because who cares about women's soccer anyways. Bunch of corrupt old men ruining the beautiful game.

On another note I wanted the Japanese women to win, but Solo's comments have put me over the top. I hope the States get their asses handed to them on a silver platter, a demolition job never seen before in Olympic soccer. Someone needs to knock Solo off her pedestal.
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#173 Nevlach

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 03:26 PM

Either call it every time or don't call it at all. You can't arbitrarily decide when to call a rule or not. Such a bogus win.
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#174 Grape

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 03:30 PM

http://www.cbc.ca/ol...soccer-ref.html
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#175 ckamo

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 03:32 PM

Hope Solo says they made Sinclair look good. :rolleyes: Yeah, OK.
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#176 Sharpshooter

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 03:36 PM

despite what your beer league floor hockey rules may be, in soccer, this would be a card 9 times out of 10


Thanks you FIFA referee. Perhaps you could teach the rest of the referees in your organization what is and isn't worth carding.

And then perhaps you can swing back around and comprehend the point raised in my post.
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#177 jannik freaking hansen

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 03:36 PM

frack the American media pisses me off so much, I'm admittedly beside myself right now. They're now trying to justify their win by dissecting every moment of the game. Just came across this article about Tancredi stepping on an American's head, calling it a deliberate act, come on.
http://ca.sports.yah...22381--oly.html
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#178 Grape

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 03:36 PM

Hope Solo says they made Sinclair look good. :rolleyes: Yeah, OK.

She's an a$$ hole
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#179 Nevlach

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 03:36 PM

Hope Solo says they made Sinclair look good. :rolleyes: Yeah, OK.


Yeah or maybe she just sucks.

Easy to be the best goalie in women's soccer when you have the USA team in front of you...
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#180 Nevlach

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 03:37 PM

frack the American media pisses me off so much, I'm admittedly beside myself right now. They're now trying to justify their win by dissecting every moment of the game. Just came across this article about Tancredi stepping on an American's head, calling it a deliberate act, come on.
http://ca.sports.yah...22381--oly.html


I would step on their heads too, try to squeeze some hot air out :)

Edited by Nevlach, 07 August 2012 - 03:37 PM.

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