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US National Debt Closing in on 57 Trillion


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#1 hsedin33

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 05:59 PM

For anyone who thought America still has hope...

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Edited by hsedin33, 24 July 2012 - 06:00 PM.


#2 Guest_BuckFoston_*

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 06:05 PM

Nope, no one thought that. Everyone and everything is getting flushed down the toilet.

#3 hsedin33

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 06:07 PM

Nope, no one thought that. Everyone and everything is getting flushed down the toilet.


Haha, love your Handle!

#4 Jaku

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 06:57 PM

Unreal.. the US has dug themselves a hole they can never climb out of.
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#5 zombieksa

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 06:58 PM

Foston you and your future wife are a very attractive couple. just sayin
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#6 Heretic

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 07:11 PM

There's always hope - just ask Rambo:

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#7 Jägermeister

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 07:25 PM

They should hold a bake sale.
Things like that always work.

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#8 theminister

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 07:30 PM

You do realize that as soon as they officially default, which they will soon enough, the entire world trade network goes in the crapper, local economies will rule the day, and the US will be in as good of a position, long-term, as any country in the world.

They have arable land, natural resources, guns galore, and a sufficiently enslavable work force. The 49th parallel will become an afterthought.

There is no more dangerous creature than one that is backed into a corner. The US is on "death ground." Ask Sun-Tzu how important that is.

Edited by theminister, 24 July 2012 - 07:41 PM.

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#9 Drybone

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 07:32 PM

For anyone who thought America still has hope...

http://www.usdebtclock.org/


Thanks for this dude!!! Was very informative.
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#10 Dittohead

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 07:53 PM

$10,000 a second not too bad.

#11 Tom-The-Great

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 08:43 PM

There's always hope - just ask Rambo:

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what the...? I lived in Hope for 3 years and never once saw that.. where is that? is it pretty new?

#12 Heretic

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 08:56 PM

BTW - here's Canada's:

http://www.debtclock.ca/

McCoy: We were speculating. Is God really out there?
Kirk: Maybe he's not out there, Bones. Maybe he's right here. [points to his heart]

 

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#13 nucklehead

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 09:29 PM

When Reagan brought in the first trillion dollar budget people were nervous. Now it's just a number.

 


#14 nuckin_futz

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 09:50 PM

The number you really need to pay attention to is at the bottom the 'total unfunded liabilities' and it's just under $120 trillion dollars. That's the number of dollars they are currently in debt and the dollars they have promised to pay out like Social Security. Which unless they jack premiums through the roof a worker entering the work force today will never see a return on this money that he/she is forced to pay into.

Notice the number listed as M2 money supply? The real important number is M3. However, in 2006 the US stopped reporting this number (claiming nobody was interested in it). M3 was basically M2 + long term debt ie treasuries. Which they had begun printing like it was going out of style. Now that the Chinese have realized they don't want any more of this garbage backed paper (treasuries) the biggest purchaser of US long term government debt is guess who? That's right the US Federal Reserve. They are running a Ponzi Scheme the kind they gave Bernie Madoff 140 years for.

When it comes to government data you should be extremely suspicious of the numbers they report. For example, even though they are rapidly increasing the money supply which in every other instance has lead to rampant inflation. They keep reporting that inflation is tame. What they conveniently fail to mention is that when they calculate inflation they leave out unimportant items such as food and energy. Claiming that they are too volatile. All the while food and energy costs soar. Hitting the average Joe in the pocket book.

Another bs number is the unemployment rate. You're counted as unemployed as long as you're collecting unemployment benefits. The instant those run out, regardless of if you've found a job, you're no longer counted as unemployed. The system simply forgets about you.



Going into debt to fund growth is one thing. Doing it to fund the status quo is not a good idea. Borrowing money from governments with hostile intentions is also a bad idea.

Say Hello to your new Chinese overlords.



The following is a fictional scenario. Sadly, truth is often stranger than fiction.


Edited by nuckin_futz, 24 July 2012 - 10:56 PM.


#15 hsedin33

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 10:48 PM

The number you really need to pay attention to is at the bottom the 'total unfunded liabilities' and it's just under $120 trillion dollars. That's the number of dollars they are currently in debt and the dollars they have promised to pay out like Social Security. Which unless they jack premiums through the roof a worker entering the work force today will never see a return on this money that he/she is forced to pay into.

Notice the number listed as M2 money supply? The real important number is M3. However, in 2006 the US stopped reporting this number (claiming nobody was interested in it). M3 was basically M2 + long term debt ie treasuries. Which they had begun printing like it was going out of style. Now that the Chinese have realized they don't want any more of this garbage backed paper (treasuries) the biggest purchaser of US long term government debt is guess who? That's right the US Federal Reserve. They are running a Ponzi Scheme the king they gave Bernie Madoff 140 years for.

When it comes to government data you should be extremely suspicious of the numbers they report. For example, even though they are rapidly increasing the money supply which in every other instance has lead to rampant inflation. They keep reporting that inflation is tame. What they conveniently fail to mention is that when they calculate inflation they leave out unimportant items such as food and energy. Claiming that they are too volatile. All the while food and energy costs soar. Hitting the average Joe in the pocket book.

Another bs number is the unemployment rate. You're counted as unemployed as long as you're collecting unemployment benefits. The instant those run out, regardless of if you've found a job, you're no longer counted as unemployed. The system simply forgets about you.



Going into debt to fund growth is one thing. Doing it to fund the status quo is not a good idea. Borrowing money from governments with hostile intentions is also a bad idea.

Say Hello to your new Chinese overlords.

http://youtu.be/OTSQozWP-rM

The following is a fictional scenario. Sadly, truth is often stranger than fiction.

http://youtu.be/2N8gJSMoOJc


Didn't even notice the unfunded liabilities, wow, that's just incredible. I just don't understand where all this money is going. Another thing I found interesting is how Student loan debt almost rivals Credit card debt...

#16 nuckin_futz

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 11:20 PM

Didn't even notice the unfunded liabilities, wow, that's just incredible. I just don't understand where all this money is going. Another thing I found interesting is how Student loan debt almost rivals Credit card debt...


Where is it going? It's basically being pissed away to avoid the eventual day of reckoning. Student loan debt is so high because people take huge loans to get liberal arts degrees and then can't find a job to pay back the debt. The law was changed a few years back so you can't discharge student loans in bankruptcy. If someone came to me for a student loan and told me they wanted to study philosophy, I'd fall over laughing. If they told me they wanted to study plumbing or become an electrician I'd listen to them.

Edited by nuckin_futz, 24 July 2012 - 11:25 PM.


#17 etsen3

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 01:17 AM

Congratulations America on the big milestone!!! Thumbs up!!!

#18 MikeGillis58

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 01:25 AM

They owe China $332 billion.
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#19 Tystick

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 01:31 AM

Lol they suck, US should start selling states.
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#20 lx Birdie xl

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 04:06 AM

Where is it going? It's basically being pissed away to avoid the eventual day of reckoning. Student loan debt is so high because people take huge loans to get liberal arts degrees and then can't find a job to pay back the debt. The law was changed a few years back so you can't discharge student loans in bankruptcy. If someone came to me for a student loan and told me they wanted to study philosophy, I'd fall over laughing. If they told me they wanted to study plumbing or become an electrician I'd listen to them.



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Edited by lx Birdie xl, 25 July 2012 - 04:07 AM.


#21 theminister

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 07:54 AM

Some will say it is gross mismanagement but I think it's a well orchestrated 'bustout.' I also believe that the US is only one of many countries that this is being perpetrated in simultaneously.

http://www.bankerson...u_011209a.html

This is what the 0.01% are actually doing. They know it is a house of cards that will come tumbling down so they are getting theirs while the getting is good. The real scam is convincing the populace that all is well, not to panic, when it very clearly and mathematically is not.

Edited by theminister, 25 July 2012 - 07:57 AM.

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#22 ronthecivil

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 08:10 AM

Lol they suck, US should start selling states.


Hmmm. I would be interested in Point Roberts or the Alaska Panhandle. Not that we will be in any position to be buying them.

#23 ronthecivil

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 08:12 AM

You do realize that as soon as they officially default, which they will soon enough, the entire world trade network goes in the crapper, local economies will rule the day, and the US will be in as good of a position, long-term, as any country in the world.

They have arable land, natural resources, guns galore, and a sufficiently enslavable work force. The 49th parallel will become an afterthought.

There is no more dangerous creature than one that is backed into a corner. The US is on "death ground." Ask Sun-Tzu how important that is.


Well, it will suck for the population. However, once they default they will be FORCED to balance the numbers and then, and only then, they will rise again.

As a silver lining to the dark crowd of their money being worthless they will be in a good position to actualy have a manufacturing industry again.

#24 Drybone

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 08:15 AM

I wonder how long it will be before the US simply gives the creditors the finger and presses the reset button.

Then everyone will press their own reset button. I suspect this is the only way out of it for everyone. The Euro will be in default in 5 years so its as good a time as any I suppose.
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#25 ronthecivil

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 08:21 AM

I wonder how long it will be before the US simply gives the creditors the finger and presses the reset button.

Then everyone will press their own reset button. I suspect this is the only way out of it for everyone. The Euro will be in default in 5 years so its as good a time as any I suppose.


Why give them the finger when you can just give them the money. All the bills are payable in US dollars. They own the printing press. Print out enough to pay all your bills and be done with it.

Dollar goes way down and interest payments drop! Just be ready to have a balanced budget as most will not be keen to lend money anymore!

#26 Drybone

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 08:55 AM

Why give them the finger when you can just give them the money. All the bills are payable in US dollars. They own the printing press. Print out enough to pay all your bills and be done with it.

Dollar goes way down and interest payments drop! Just be ready to have a balanced budget as most will not be keen to lend money anymore!


True that.

1) Balance the budget

2) e commerce everyone back the money (why waste the trees ?)

3) commence Weimer Republic with e barrels of cash.

:frantic:
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#27 JohnLocke

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 09:12 AM

They should get an achievement and earn some achievement points.

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#28 taxi

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 09:47 AM

The US's debt really isn't that bad when compared to other developed nations. The best way to measure debt is by comparing the ratio of external debt as a percentage of GDP.

The USA sits at around 103%

The UK has a ratio of 360%

France has a ratio of 182%


http://en.wikipedia....y_external_debt

#29 ronthecivil

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 10:26 AM

The US's debt really isn't that bad when compared to other developed nations. The best way to measure debt is by comparing the ratio of external debt as a percentage of GDP.

The USA sits at around 103%

The UK has a ratio of 360%

France has a ratio of 182%


http://en.wikipedia....y_external_debt


They still (REALLY) need to get their budget balanced though. In good news both parties agree this needs to be done, they just disagree how to do it. Even if the Republicans win the day unlike Bush who had a history of poorly run businesses Romney has experience taking over bankrupt ones, firing half the staff, and getting them on solid ground again. It's not the way I would fix the states but it's at least a way. Or if the democrats win then simply raise taxes on the rich and do some military cuts.

But even if that doesn't happen and it's a split governement like now even if they don't comprimise the old financial cliff is due right after the election which is actually the closest to what I would do - raise taxes AND cut programs.

#30 nuckin_futz

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 10:40 AM

The US's debt really isn't that bad when compared to other developed nations. The best way to measure debt is by comparing the ratio of external debt as a percentage of GDP.

The USA sits at around 103%

The UK has a ratio of 360%

France has a ratio of 182%


http://en.wikipedia....y_external_debt


None of those other nations have anywhere near the debt in absolute dollars as the US. If their GDP slips it will be a disaster, and when 75% of your economy relies on consumer spending having those consumers unable to secure more credit ain't good.

The United States' situation is like being the skinniest kid at Fat Camp. Nothing to brag about really.




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