theminister Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Some will say it is gross mismanagement but I think it's a well orchestrated 'bustout.' I also believe that the US is only one of many countries that this is being perpetrated in simultaneously. http://www.bankersonline.com/vendor_guru/experianbulldog/experianbulldog_guru_011209a.html This is what the 0.01% are actually doing. They know it is a house of cards that will come tumbling down so they are getting theirs while the getting is good. The real scam is convincing the populace that all is well, not to panic, when it very clearly and mathematically is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Lol they suck, US should start selling states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 You do realize that as soon as they officially default, which they will soon enough, the entire world trade network goes in the crapper, local economies will rule the day, and the US will be in as good of a position, long-term, as any country in the world. They have arable land, natural resources, guns galore, and a sufficiently enslavable work force. The 49th parallel will become an afterthought. There is no more dangerous creature than one that is backed into a corner. The US is on "death ground." Ask Sun-Tzu how important that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drybone Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I wonder how long it will be before the US simply gives the creditors the finger and presses the reset button. Then everyone will press their own reset button. I suspect this is the only way out of it for everyone. The Euro will be in default in 5 years so its as good a time as any I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I wonder how long it will be before the US simply gives the creditors the finger and presses the reset button. Then everyone will press their own reset button. I suspect this is the only way out of it for everyone. The Euro will be in default in 5 years so its as good a time as any I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drybone Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Why give them the finger when you can just give them the money. All the bills are payable in US dollars. They own the printing press. Print out enough to pay all your bills and be done with it. Dollar goes way down and interest payments drop! Just be ready to have a balanced budget as most will not be keen to lend money anymore! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnLocke Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 They should get an achievement and earn some achievement points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 The US's debt really isn't that bad when compared to other developed nations. The best way to measure debt is by comparing the ratio of external debt as a percentage of GDP. The USA sits at around 103% The UK has a ratio of 360% France has a ratio of 182% http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 The US's debt really isn't that bad when compared to other developed nations. The best way to measure debt is by comparing the ratio of external debt as a percentage of GDP. The USA sits at around 103% The UK has a ratio of 360% France has a ratio of 182% http://en.wikipedia....y_external_debt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuckin_futz Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 The US's debt really isn't that bad when compared to other developed nations. The best way to measure debt is by comparing the ratio of external debt as a percentage of GDP. The USA sits at around 103% The UK has a ratio of 360% France has a ratio of 182% http://en.wikipedia....y_external_debt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Speaking of skinny kids while our own federal debt isn't nearly as bad it's increasing while many provincial debts are very bad but best of all Canadians as a whole are on average in debt at 161% of their own gdp. As it turns out our own incomes are also based on consumer spending and should there be a shock to the economy a LOT of people are going to find that their personal debt levels are unservicable which could create quite the negative feedback loop. As such, instead of obsessing over the US perhaps we should learn from their mistakes and not repeat them. Well, at least stop repeating them, the sooner the better..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drybone Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Hey Ron. The numbers I saw were the US has 3 times the debt for its GDP than Canada does. 1/2 a trill for 30 million people. 15 trillion for 310 million people. to scale canadas debt would be about 6 trillion. So I think we are in better shape than we think -comparatively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuckin_futz Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Speaking of skinny kids while our own federal debt isn't nearly as bad it's increasing while many provincial debts are very bad but best of all Canadians as a whole are on average in debt at 161% of their own gdp. As it turns out our own incomes are also based on consumer spending and should there be a shock to the economy a LOT of people are going to find that their personal debt levels are unservicable which could create quite the negative feedback loop. As such, instead of obsessing over the US perhaps we should learn from their mistakes and not repeat them. Well, at least stop repeating them, the sooner the better..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Federally we're "meh" so I suppose that's better. We're not good. Personally we are much, much worse off. As bad as it was for them right before the house of cards went down. Keep in mind that if there is a housing correction the CMHC (a federal crown corporation) has just under another 600 billion backing many of the highest ratio loans held by our heavily indebted inhabitants. Should there be a shock to the system (in a world full of shocks) the federal government could be in a position to see it's revenues drop and it's liabilities rise substantially. Such is the risk of ruling a nation of debtors! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 None of those other nations have anywhere near the debt in absolute dollars as the US. If their GDP slips it will be a disaster, and when 75% of your economy relies on consumer spending having those consumers unable to secure more credit ain't good. The United States' situation is like being the skinniest kid at Fat Camp. Nothing to brag about really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Ambien Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Only 57 trillion? I thought the US debt was in the quintillions by now.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuckin_futz Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Then look at it per capita then: USA: 50k UK: 143k France: 75k Sweden: 91K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Not sure what looking at it per capita does. My point is the US is as screwed as those countries because 75% of their economy relies on consumer spending. The amount of household debt in the US is the real problem. They have largely shipped their manufacturing base over seas and replaced those jobs with lower paying service jobs. So you have lower household income leading to higher household debt. Those other country's economies don't rely as heavily on the consumer. If France was foolish enough to ship their manufacturing base over seas they'd be in even more doo doo then they are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Actually the US consumer at one time was at around our level of 160% of income but they are now closer to 100%. Still not good being a year's wages in the hole but it's a step in the right direction. If the US devalues it's dollar (which is likely) it will hit savers but it will clobber the foreign investors that have fled to the dollar as a safe haven. When it does the manufacturing base will have a much more solid business case to produce while foreign imports get much more expensive. And when the overwhelming majority of your debt is in a currentcy you control the printing press for it makes for a fairly easy solution to killing two birds with one stone. (I like to refer to it as the "bring a couple trillion dollars in a suitcase next state trip to China" solution.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electro Rock Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 This massive debt isn't a failing of the U.S. system per se, but the willful intent of the predatory financial oligarchs that have co-opted not only the U.S. but most of the world's economies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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