Unprecedented Greenland Ice Melt Stuns NASA Scientists

[Sharpshooter]

well no offense intended, cause I havent read the thread much or know your stance, but if it appears to be part of a natural cycle for the earth, but why include it into the climate change hoopla? only reason I can see is to take advantage of a natural situation and draw supporters to the cause.

[Argon]

Well, the scientists or people who are studying this aren't terribly sure themselves. It could just be part of a natural cycle, or not. Part of it could be natural in the sense of the melting, and part of it maybe isn't, such as the rate of melting in such a short time.

And I don't look at climate change as "hoopla", do you?

[Sharpshooter]

I think the idea that the working class can make a difference is hogwash. if people want to make a big issue about it, they have to realize that driving hybrids and recycling popcans has statistically virtually no effect to the climate. industry has to be targeted, and drastically changed if humanity is to try and get out of the hole they've dug.

when industry finds a better way to deal with waste than pumping it into the oceans, and start to find green ways of doing construction (how many hybrids would it take to counter the effects of a single roadway construction crew?), then maybe I'll consider buying into the "hoopla".

[ronthecivil]

I hope you're being purposefully obtuse with this post. The main discussion is global climate change and how it has caused Greenland to melt. This thread may be indirectly related to Greenland itself, but it is quite obviously a discussion on global climate change and more than anything a Public Service Announcement. It began as very constructive and informative and just because a few people posting here lack reading comprehension skills it has degenerated just like constructive threads always do into name calling and idiocy.

[Slaytanic Wehrmacht]

Well good thing for this thread or I would have not known that there were concerns over climate change!

And I did comment on topic. My point was they clearly need to refine their models if it's melting more than they thought though I doubt the model is precise enough to account for thinks like the Pacific current fluctuations that cause El Nino/La Nina. I figured that switch was the primary reason for the ice melt being especially bad this year.

However regardless of whether it's happening or not there's nothing we can do about it (even killing every Canadian and declaring it a world park) so global warming is happening whether we like it or not.

Now if people want to try to say shut down the oil sands as a half way measure of say at least trying to reduce global warming they will just hasten us to getting a switch kick in the pants regarding the soon to be great financial meltdown. If you wonder how poverty affects the enviroment go check the forests of Haiti.

[Sharpshooter]

Well good thing for this thread or I would have not known that there were concerns over climate change!

And I did comment on topic. My point was they clearly need to refine their models if it's melting more than they thought though I doubt the model is precise enough to account for thinks like the Pacific current fluctuations that cause El Nino/La Nina. I figured that switch was the primary reason for the ice melt being especially bad this year.

However regardless of whether it's happening or not there's nothing we can do about it (even killing every Canadian and declaring it a world park) so global warming is happening whether we like it or not.

Now if people want to try to say shut down the oil sands as a half way measure of say at least trying to reduce global warming they will just hasten us to getting a switch kick in the pants regarding the soon to be great financial meltdown. If you wonder how poverty affects the enviroment go check the forests of Haiti.

[Drybone]

Just curious, why are you convinced that the current change is natural as opposed being a result of anthropogenic in nature?

[ronthecivil]

Then why are you continuing to remain in a thread that has obviously no use for you? You're obviously as informed as you want to be, so why not just piss off on your merry way to some other thread?

[Heretic]

Im totally not dude.

But I am also not convnced its all man made. And then there is the real question.

What do we do about it. Say its 50 ecological and 50 human. I dont know if we can control the human part with the emerging China India and Russian markets for the dirty coal.

So I would be more interested in preparing for the end game of what we can do about it to prepare.

If anyone has any better ideas, I am certainly all ears.

[Slaytanic Wehrmacht]

Essentially the question is "Would you rather human existence end in fire or ice?" My answer would be...if extinction was truly imminent...would it really MATTER which killed us? No.

[Heretic]

Here's another site - same result - saying we are the main cause:

http://ossfoundation.us/projects/environment/global-warming/myths/global-warming-is-only-part-human-caused

[Sharpshooter]

Same as you to clear up misconceptions.

[MadMonk]

What I find missing from most reports i've been reading is how the 96 hours of melting compares to the seemingly 'normal' melting cycles that this event is said could be a part of. Did they melt as rapidly? Did the same amount of ice melt? How quickly was that melt recovered? What were the following years like after a big melt such as this? All these questions, that i suspect ice cores could shed some light on, but nothing mentioned.

[ronthecivil]

Essentially the question is "Would you rather human existence end in fire or ice?" My answer would be...if extinction was truly imminent...would it really MATTER which killed us? No.

[ronthecivil]

Given that the last event occurred in 1889 I think the only record of it will be from ice core, and my guess is that it would be impossible to say anything beyond the fact that there was a melt layer. I find one paper mentioning the 1889 melt, but can't find anything prior to that.

In any case, as long as the surface gets reasonable warm you can get massive melt events like these. It is of course entirely possible to have such events due to natural variability alone. The real question is given the recent warming over Greenland, will these events happen more frequently? Unfortunately we don't have the statistics to say.

Finally, when interpreting such an event in the grand scheme of things, one should keep in mind that mass over Greenland has nose dived over the past decade.

[Slaytanic Wehrmacht]

Unless someone gets nutty and starts pushing buttons extinction isn't in the near future. And even then so long as there's enough inuit elders to teach the young people the old ways QUICK humanity will still exist in the deepest fringes of the planet, if perhaps a more stone age like form.

Now, could we be a modern version of the Roman Republic where we are light years ahead of anything before it and heading into a dark ages where society that prosperous and advanced wouldn't be seen for over a thousand more years? That might be possible. Though I suspect the reasons if that happens will be more likely to be economic. The rich world better gets it's entitled ass in gear if it wants to stay that way.

[Heretic]

Then clear them up and keep your condescending comments about the thread to yourself. If you don't like the thread or don't have any value to add to it except your stupid little remarks about it, then get lost.

[Heretic]

Canada would be no more if we did hit another ice age....

[MadMonk]

Match that graph up with the La Nina/El Nino points and see if there's a correlation and you might have your answer.

[Heretic]

ok...being as civil about this as possible...my post was hypothetical. I was saying...IF extinction were imminent..it would not really matter whether or not we froze to death or burned up, because the end result would still be DEATH DEATH DEATH. If you're going to be dead, who cares how you die, really? Ice Age - We all freeze to death....Intense and Rampant Venus-like global warming....we all burn up...get me? It doesn't matter, is what I was saying.