ronthecivil Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 The evidence is that the earth is warming and our actions play a large part. As an engineer why would I disagree with the science? However, I know that unless everyone gets a first world standard of living off of something else then people are going to do whatever it takes to get there, and the rest of us be damned if we try to stop them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaytanic Wehrmacht Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Yes. Edit: Just to be clear though, I believe climate change has happened many times throughout Earth's history. What man is doing right now is just speeding up the current cycle. That is, the global warming part of climate change is not just because of man and what we're doing to the environment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Well, considering the Earth is over 6 billion years old and it goes through the cycle of precession every 26,000 years, it doesn't take a math genius to figure out that this has taken place "many times throughout Earth's history". And I will respectfully disagree with your last statement. The global warming part of this climate change cycle is not just because of man and what we're doing to the environment? We're the most invasive species on this planet...mind telling me just what ELSE is causing this global warming effect? Next I suppose you are going to try and say that any global warming effects in previous cycles were caused by dinosaur flatulence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMonk Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Changing the climate of the planet is such an enormous task I dont even know when the technology nor energy required would become avail. Even if we get this, we have no idea what the long term effect of it would be. How about we roll with mother nature and adapt to her instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaytanic Wehrmacht Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Well...it doesn't take a math genius to figure out that industrial man wasn't here 26,000 years ago...even a 12 year old knows that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 The whole point of acting now rather than later is that we don't have to resort to aggressive geo-enginneering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Industrial man may not have been, but his early hominid predecessors certainly were. That's moot though, and irrelevant to what I was saying. I was actually asking you a question which you deftly avoided: "If man and what it is doing to the environment isn't the only thing causing the global warming effect in this climate change cycle, what is?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaytanic Wehrmacht Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 No, actually I said the cycle of axial precession has been going on every 26,000 years. I never said global warming took place every 26,000 years. Every 72 years, the Earth on its axis moves backward 1 degree. This is commonly referred to as the precession of equinoxes. So to recap, precession cycles happen every 26,000 years, so there's a POTENTIAL for global climate change. As far as this one goes, we as humans have royally f***ed ourselves in the latter part of this precession cycle, only exacerbating any gradual change that is already present due to the axial shift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Soooo...... Greenland is actually "green" now.... I guess Erik the Red was right.....just 1000 years early..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 No, actually I said the cycle of axial precession has been going on every 26,000 years. I never said global warming took place every 26,000 years. Every 72 years, the Earth on its axis moves backward 1 degree. This is commonly referred to as the precession of equinoxes. So to recap, precession cycles happen every 26,000 years, so there's a POTENTIAL for global climate change. As far as this one goes, we as humans have royally f***ed ourselves in the latter part of this precession cycle, only exacerbating any gradual change that is already present due to the axial shift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drybone Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Try not to introduce logic and calm, this is an environmentalist chicken-with-head-cut-off topic. Daring to institute logic is like challenging a pastor in his own church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaytanic Wehrmacht Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 The discussion is about global warming and you said "Well, considering the Earth is over 6 billion years old and it goes through the cycle of precession every 26,000 years, it doesn't take a math genius to figure out that this has taken place "many times throughout Earth's history"" Sounds like you're saying that "this" (global warming) has taken place many times throughout Earth's history. So I don't misinterpret what you're saying, can you elaborate on your comment about "As far as this one goes, we as humans have royally messed ourselves in the latter part of this precession cycle, only exacerbating any gradual change that is already present due to the axial shift." That is, are you saying we're too late to make a difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dittohead Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 ice melts in the summer. freezes in the winter. love the scary music though nice touch. I must do something but I don't know what? Wait, I know! lets blame humans and tax more money for gasoline and energy they'll even pay $5 for a light bulb... lol ya that'll change it or stop it... delusional. I welcome the melt.... The opposite would be much worse as we'd have to go move South. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMonk Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I agree, but we are acting now and have been for a few decades...but I agree, it's not enough... The real issue is - how do you get everyone in the world to be on the same page? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Ok, well continuing what you mentioned about industrial man, and then saying that industrial man was not around 26,000 years ago..(you're right) It would stand to reason that since the Industrial Revolution at the very least we have been digging our hole a little bit deeper and definitely are the main contributor to what's currently taking place (ice caps melting, temperatures on average rising etc)...and to be frank here, no..I don't think we're too late to make a difference...however if you ask if I think we're too late to make a SIGNIFICANT difference, I would say yes. Let's consider for a moment the irreparable damage we have done to the ozone layer...causing at the very least an advanced (not yet severe) Greenhouse Effect which is now being felt around most of the globe. I live in the US, and for the first time in 20 years this past winter...well....there really WAS no winter... But look at the bright side...at least we're not as far gone as Venus is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaytanic Wehrmacht Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I can agree with that. I have lived in the Calgary area since 1999 - and in a few weeks I'll be back in BC. I can't stand the winter's here. Bloody freezing and so much snow you'd think I was living on the top of a mountain. Yes, I sometimes joke when people talk about global warming - I usually say something like "they obviously have never lived in Calgary". Maybe, if more people would try to solve the problem instead of just protesting, maybe we could reverse the damage we have done. Example, maybe one day, some scientist or really smart person figures out a way to replenish the ozone layer... Unless we become more like say a one world nation, I just don't see how we can get everyone to buy into saving our planet instead of just looking at costs and profit and greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I think as technology for renewable energy matures it will be stupid not to transition to it, and I don't think it is that far off anyway (just look at the rapid adoption of solar energy recently). I maybe optimistic, but maybe 2-3 decades away? I think eventually the wallet will make everyone be on the same page. My frustration is that the transition can be so much faster if it weren't for a significant segment of the population who refuse to deal with the fact that it is happening, and that is really the single greatest hurdle right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I think as technology for renewable energy matures it will be stupid not to transition to it, and I don't think it is that far off anyway (just look at the rapid adoption of solar energy recently). I maybe optimistic, but maybe 2-3 decades away? I think eventually the wallet will make everyone be on the same page. My frustration is that the transition can be so much faster if it weren't for a significant segment of the population who refuse to deal with the fact that it is happening, and that is really the single greatest hurdle right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted July 25, 2012 Author Share Posted July 25, 2012 The article you've quoted describes the effect of ozone depletion on the atmospheric circulation over Antarctica. While recent research have mostly suggested that ozone depletion can in fact change atmospheric circulation, the effect on sea ice is less clear. There are some papers that contradicts the SAM-sea ice link. For example: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drybone Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Global warming is caused by cow flatulence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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