Sharpshooter Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Funny Sharp, you insistingly hold this view, yet I did not hear him once use the term Zionist or Zionism...except to imply in his book that Zionist territorial ambitions are a product 'bin Laden's imagination' (you see what he did there). And you are simply turning a blind eye towards Sam Harris just like Sam Harris turns a blind eye towards Zionism and Zionist terror and atrocities (at best), instead using ambiguous terms like 'settlers'. And since you mention Judaism, Judaism and Zionism are not one and the same and true Judaism is staunchly opposed to Zionism, which you do not seem to be cognizant of. As for his quoting Dershowitz, Dershowitz is just one of the rabid Zionists he connects with that makes him extremely suspect, and yes I am aware of the quote and the context and it is absolutely nonsensical, regardless whether or not Sam Harris begins his diatribe with 'truth is..." with respect to Dershowitz' view (which is evidently his own as well). So if you sourced bin Laden, empathized with or backed his views and ideals and began with 'truth is' as well as incessantly repeated his rhetoric while turning a blind eye to his atrocities, then yes, it would absolutely make you equally suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I am not actually saying he is a Zionist, however; when you look at his statements regarding the state of Israel, who he sources for his perspective, the policies he advocates and supports, the individuals who support his work and who he supports (Bernard Lewis Robert Spencer, Alan Dershowitz, Daniel Pipes, Robert Kaplan etc.) and his complete silence and turning a blind eye on Zionism and Zionist history and on top of this incessantly repeating Zionist rhetoric, he simply follows a pattern of either Zionists, their supporters or apologists who are/were in his exact shoes (i.e. spreading all of this in a public forums with focus on the boogeyman called Islam). And they are often paid well v=by Zionists to do so and turn their blind eye (i.e. never bite the hand that feeds you). Not that I in any shape, form or manner like Christopher Hitchens (obviously), but there is a massive disparity between Sam Harris and him in this regard. Sam Harris refuses to touch Zionism and much like Zionist rhetoric, he assumes that his audience will simply know no better. My assertion is here not unique. Numerous atheists themselves have raised these identical issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNinja Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I've already shown you that unlike actually supporters and apologists of Zionism, Harris from his own direct words cannot be considered to be a supporter, let alone an apologist. He clearly has come out against a fundamental act of modern Zionism which promotes and acts to take back land that belongs to or is occupied by the Palestinians. You can continue to believe this nonsense, but i'll call you on it every time you try to promote it as a factual position of his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNinja Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 And there are quite a great bit more that discuss slaying them and beheading them and any other number of things. Such as this one. Quran (47:3-4)"Those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the truth from their lord. Thus does Allah set forth form men their lessons by similitude. Therefore when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners," Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 You've actually shown nothing of the sort. One comment about settlers is all you've shown and he seems to imply 'Judaism' as the culprit (even though the fundamentals of Judaism does not permit living in that land to begin with). Merely another example of ignorance on Harris part. Sam Harris does not touch the word Zionism or Zionist, or anything Zionist. Period. Tell me who his friends are and I'll tell you who he is. Zionist propaganda anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VICanucksfan5551 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I am not actually saying he is a Zionist, however; when you look at his statements regarding the state of Israel, who he sources for his perspective, the policies he advocates and supports, the individuals who support his work and who he supports (Bernard Lewis Robert Spencer, Alan Dershowitz, Daniel Pipes, Robert Kaplan etc.) and his complete silence and turning a blind eye on Zionism and Zionist history and on top of this incessantly repeating Zionist rhetoric, he simply follows a pattern of either Zionists, their supporters or apologists who are/were in his exact shoes (i.e. spreading all of this in a public forums with focus on the boogeyman called Islam). And they are often paid well v=by Zionists to do so and turn their blind eye (i.e. never bite the hand that feeds you). Not that I in any shape, form or manner like Christopher Hitchens (obviously), but there is a massive disparity between Sam Harris and him in this regard. Sam Harris refuses to touch Zionism and much like Zionist rhetoric, he assumes that his audience will simply know no better. My assertion is here not unique. Numerous atheists themselves have raised these identical issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Quote:Slaytanic Wehrmacht, on 28 July 2012 - 08:45 AM, said: I'm a member of American Atheists, and for some half-wit to sit there, hide behind a keyboard, and accuse the people I PERSONALLY know are great American citizens who are very active in their communities and very docile until provoked or enticed by ignorant and downright stupid people with agendas like that guy does piss me off. Painting all of us as savages who belong to a "cult" essentially whose sole tenet is "hatred for those who believe in god" is not only EXTREMELY insulting, it's overtly uninformed. Here's a nice little interesting tidbit you and a lot of others conveniently don't care to remember about us...we don't only reject the existence of the Christian god...we reject the existence of ALL deities...it's just the Christians are the only ones who get their panties in a bunch about it. Sounds and looks like you have your own little church going. A little rabid also like a fundamentalist preacher. As a (I hate to say this) fellow athiest, I find you every bit as misinformed and arrogant as the extremists of the religions that you abhorr. Riding on the coat tails of others and rude behavior mark you as much a fanatic as any religions you've posted about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNinja Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Fully agree with that... Proof: I'm fine with people not believing what I believe - but to say I have my "panty's in a knot" or that I'm "gullible" or "stupid" or "my belief is slowing down progress" or "blame religion for everything" or "my belief is a cancer on society" is just ignorant... Welcome back H2H? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLumme Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Fully agree with that... Proof: I'm fine with people not believing what I believe - but to say I have my "panty's in a knot" or that I'm "gullible" or "stupid" or "my belief is slowing down progress" or "blame religion for everything" or "my belief is a cancer on society" is just ignorant... Welcome back H2H? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SukhKular Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Could one say the Iraq war was an act of terrorism according to that definition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Your beliefs are slowing down progress in society though. Both scientific & social progress. Anti gay marriage and creationism are the two most obvious examples, then there's anti stem cell research, anti prophylactic propeganda in Africa that spreads AIDS, the protection of pederasts in the Catholic church... the list is long and damning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaytanic Wehrmacht Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Fully agree with that... Proof: I'm fine with people not believing what I believe - but to say I have my "panty's in a knot" or that I'm "gullible" or "stupid" or "my belief is slowing down progress" or "blame religion for everything" or "my belief is a cancer on society" is just ignorant... Welcome back H2H? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 If you cannot see that your tired, Bronze-Age philosophies are indeed slowing down progress you have proven my point for "blind" "gullible" and "oblivious". Never mind the fact that in the post I made saying I wanted religion eradicated I never once used the word "stupid", for you to glean that actual term reeks of a guilty conscience. I will stand by an earlier reference to those who study religion wasting their life though. If you want to live your life and believe this nonsense because you just want to double-down, because there may be a very very miniscule chance that you may be right, who am I to stop you. But if you don't wish to be ridiculed for having such absurd beliefs....well...maybe you shouldn't HAVE such absurd beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaytanic Wehrmacht Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 It has nothing to do with being "ridiculed" - it's the hypocrisy of it. Just say you don't like it and be done with it - I'm fine with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 It's obvious I don't like it...but hate is such a strong term that I would never use it in serious conversation. I don't like the belief...but I do not dislike the believers themselves. It isn't the believers (in most cases) standing in the way of progress, it's the belief...and once again, I'm not only referring to the Christians...I feel the same about all of the major religious institutions of this world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaytanic Wehrmacht Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I can accept that (not that anyone needs my acceptance) - though I do dislike some "believers" out there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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