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AV needs to let him play


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#91 ChuckNORRIS4Cup

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 12:47 PM

Fair enough I was thinking he was there in 04 but it was still Carlyle. I still feel he has done a good job at developing out players. I do disagree with the other statements. Sedin's are so successful because of the way AV uses them. They are always put into situations where they have best chance of producing ( offensive zone starts) and rarely have to take defensive zone starts. AV also tries to deploy them against the oppositions weakest D pairing whenever possible. When Kesler scored 40 goals and was dominating was because Malhotra's 3rd line was able to take the majority of defensive assignments and allow Kesler more offensive room.

AV doesn't like this style because he played as a tough defenseman in the NHL, he uses it because its successful.


Well of course when you have home ice advantage and have that last change and you see the other team doesn't have their first D pairing out there, it's a perfect opportunity to have your best forwards on the ice. Most of the time though the Sedins, do play against opposition top D pairs, because teams will make that switch as soon as they see them on the ice. Sometimes they can't but most of the time they will be put on the ice to shut the Sedins down, but because of how offensively talented these guys are, they can make top D pairs look like just regular D.

Regards to Malhotra and the 3rd line, I'll agree with that, it did give Kesler more offensive chances, but it also was the year Kesler switched from being the anchor on the 2nd PP unit, to now playing on the 1st PP unit. I think what I'm more upset with is that 3rd line and MG, and how he didn't keep the key player on that line to keep that 3rd line together. Torres completed that line of Hansen, Malhotra and Torres, they played so well together and I wish MG signed Torres, that was a true definition of a key shut down line with engery. I also believe Malhotra would of benefited with Torres staying here, because they knew how each other played and it would of made it a lot easier for Malhotra to gel back together with a line he knew, and had much success with.

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#92 Baggins

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 12:50 PM

Yes and that's where he should have been, but for some reason he always got put back on that 2nd line and I doubt he ever earned one of those chances.

The thing MG seems to say is that the best players play, and that whoever is playing the best plays. Not you can play a larger role if you are completely out staging the veteran's, veteran's shouldn't have any advantage over younger players in that instance, if a younger player is playing better he should get that opportunity, and that's why the complaint on AV is that he doesn't give young players the chances they deserve



I do see some set lines, this is what I see in the top 9.

Daniel - Henrik - Burrows
Booth - Kesler - ?
Higgins - ? - Hansen

So we kind of have a log jam of players that could fill those spots, Raymond, Kassian, Schroeder, Jensen, Lappierre, even Manny for the third line spot if he gets his game back.

And I don't think Raymond fits in the line-up, he's either on the 2nd or the 4th, and if he can't play offensively the way he did that one year, then he should be on the 4th, which is a waste of him being there and it also takes that spot away from someone who fits that role better, which is why I think if he doesn't earn a top 6 role then we should move him, plus Kassian will be alot better and might be able to play there, plus all the unkowns with Doan and Luongo and maybe aqcuiring another forward (hopefully a center), but right now it seems like we might have too many top 9 wingers and it's not really a good thing.


Will be or is? If he IS he should be on the team. If he WILL BE he should be on the farm getting ice time until he IS. I get that most here have a chubby for prospects, but unless the prospect is a clear and certain upgarde on a veteran why would you move the veteran when the prospect can be a quality call up for depth? The more depth we have the better.

As to Raymond I'll give him a pass for this past just as I gave Ballard a pass the year before due to his injuries. Raymonds 10/11 season was nowhere near as bad as most here made out. More a case of his not living up to the 60 point expectation most had set before the season started. His even strength production was about the same as the year everybody suddenly loved him. Despite have three injuries that affect shooting and passing. His production drop came on the PP which I fully expected. Raymond has a 25 goal, 50 point season in the NHL. Thus we know he's capable of it. I'm willing to go into 12/13 with an open mind towards Raymond as opposed to writing him off.

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#93 gouda

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 01:11 PM

not sure why some canuck FANS don't have respect for the guy, all i've heard from this offseason is he has been working extremely hard to make the lineup this year. The guy is 21 years old and has a lot of potential to be a great player in the NHL, and obviously he hasn't accomplished that much because he's so young, did hodgson accomplish more than him last year? I don't believe so

I believe Hodgson accomplished a whole lot more last year! He already had the respect before he left. big Z-bo hasnt done squat! although i really do hope he turns out to be something! but i'm not holding my breath. this team really needs something for a playoff payoff!

#94 sthebest

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 02:16 PM

I think kassian does deserve a little more time on the second line and first because the sedins wth the amount of skill and finesse they have will help his development a lot

#95 sthebest

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 02:56 PM

If he can get time with the sedins his development as a player would be amazing like that and the skill and passing around the sedins will help him be a good passer and a skilled guy. He has been working extremely hard losing 20 pounds of fat for his skating will be way better and people worry about that 20 pounds but av wouldn't want him to lose his style of play so for sure those 20 pounds of fat into muscle

#96 sonoman

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 03:25 PM

He's too young for the blues, he's still inside his first pair of shoes.

First thing I thought of before opening thread ;)

#97 Baggins

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 03:29 PM

First thing I thought of before opening thread ;)


You guys may be showing your age...then again I suppose I am as well. :lol:

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#98 sonoman

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 03:31 PM

You guys may be showing your age...then again I suppose I am as well. :lol:

I wonder if we should post a link, so the 16 year olds might get it too :)
One of my favorite rock anthems

Edited by sonoman, 29 July 2012 - 03:32 PM.


#99 ilovekevinbieksa

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 03:41 PM

we gave up coho for him...
he better play :mad:
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#100 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 06:18 PM

Jensen doesn't have much of a shot, but I do think Ebbett will be one of the guys competing for the 3C position ( Lapierre, Malhotra, Ebbett, Schroeder in that order I think). I think its really depends on how AV is going to dictate ice time this year, if he wants a 3rd line for shutdown Lapierre most likely has the spot, if Kesler's line is going to be handling the top lines than Schroeder or Ebbett have a shot. I think Raymond makes the top 6 before Kassian to start the year just based off of Raymond being resigned, If he wasn't slotted in I don't think the Canucks resign him.


Yeah I don't think Jensen is ready, I think it's best he go's and plays in Sweden, but he will be in the mix.

I think Raymond should earn his ice time this season, if Kassian has a better training camp then he should get the time.

Then there is always the possibility of getting someone through trade.

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#101 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 06:25 PM

Will be or is? If he IS he should be on the team. If he WILL BE he should be on the farm getting ice time until he IS. I get that most here have a chubby for prospects, but unless the prospect is a clear and certain upgarde on a veteran why would you move the veteran when the prospect can be a quality call up for depth? The more depth we have the better.

As to Raymond I'll give him a pass for this past just as I gave Ballard a pass the year before due to his injuries. Raymonds 10/11 season was nowhere near as bad as most here made out. More a case of his not living up to the 60 point expectation most had set before the season started. His even strength production was about the same as the year everybody suddenly loved him. Despite have three injuries that affect shooting and passing. His production drop came on the PP which I fully expected. Raymond has a 25 goal, 50 point season in the NHL. Thus we know he's capable of it. I'm willing to go into 12/13 with an open mind towards Raymond as opposed to writing him off.


Well if Kassian is as good as Gillis says he is then he will be, and he has been training hard, so he will be better, I don't see anyway he won't be better and he's NHL ready so he will only get better. Barring a trade or the dream of landing Doan, Kassian will probably be Raymond's biggest competition.

As for Raymond I will give him a chance to start the season if he is here, but to me, now that we have seen his other seasons, that 25 goal year just seems like a career year and nothing more, and how can you argue, that's what it was. I think he has the skills to get back to 20-25 goals and 50 points but right now he is a consistent 10-15 goal guy at best.

Hopefully he turns it around but if he doesn't fit on that 2nd line I don't see a place for him on this team.

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#102 Clonedanielsedin

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 06:38 PM

nice and sunny outside

#103 Baggins

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 05:44 AM

Well if Kassian is as good as Gillis says he is then he will be, and he has been training hard, so he will be better, I don't see anyway he won't be better and he's NHL ready so he will only get better. Barring a trade or the dream of landing Doan, Kassian will probably be Raymond's biggest competition.

As for Raymond I will give him a chance to start the season if he is here, but to me, now that we have seen his other seasons, that 25 goal year just seems like a career year and nothing more, and how can you argue, that's what it was. I think he has the skills to get back to 20-25 goals and 50 points but right now he is a consistent 10-15 goal guy at best.

Hopefully he turns it around but if he doesn't fit on that 2nd line I don't see a place for him on this team.


The season after his career year Raymond put up about the same points even strength as he did the year before. His production drop was on the PP but his 70 point center was replaced by a 30 point center and he had 33% less PP time. His PP production was virtually guaranteed to drop given those circumstances. His 10/11 season was nowhere near as a bad as people made out. It was only a bad year if you look at the point total while completely ignoring the circumstances.

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#104 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 11:18 AM

The season after his career year Raymond put up about the same points even strength as he did the year before. His production drop was on the PP but his 70 point center was replaced by a 30 point center and he had 33% less PP time. His PP production was virtually guaranteed to drop given those circumstances. His 10/11 season was nowhere near as a bad as people made out. It was only a bad year if you look at the point total while completely ignoring the circumstances.


Wait what??

Kesler had 70 points both years (09-10 and 10-11) and he was on his wing both years, you'd think with Kesler's breakout year that Raymond would have benefited a little more, and just because he wasn't put on the PP with Kes or the Sedin's isn't much of an excuse for me, he isn't good enough to get PP time with them, he has to earn it. And your right he might not be as bad as people said but he still wasn't as good as the year before.

Apparently Ballard had a bad year too, people tend to rag on our players for previous years when they were fine but still, Raymond needs to secure a top 6 spot or else I don't see anywhere for him on this team.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 31 July 2012 - 11:19 AM.

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#105 Sharpshooter

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 11:30 AM

This is the exact reason why I didn't want AV back next year. Because he doesn't let his young guys play.


Why should he when we have more experienced veteran depth?

Perhaps if those young players actually earned a spot with consistent play moreso than what the other veteran players already contribute, then maybe they'd actually earn more ice time.

Starting Kassian on the 4th line and letting him earn his ice time is the way to go, and exactly what AV's been doing with him. I don't see a problem with that.

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#106 Moonshinefe

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 11:58 AM

Go back to whatever lame board you came from.


Why don't you? It's no wonder this board has a reputation for being full of a bunch of jerks, because people like you make such comments instead of actually having a civil debate with someone you disagree with. Pretty lame, VAN_CITY.

You know zero about hockey based on that comment...Not going to even explain to you why you are so way of base it's funny...but nonetheless...zeeeero


So do you actually have an argument against Dragon's comment that Kassian should earn his respect? What HAS he accomplished in the NHL, if you disagree with his comment? "You don't know anything about hockey and I'm not going to explain to you why you're wrong" isn't an argument, it's a cop-out, and it only makes you look foolish and like you don't have an actual argument against him.

Yeah, he's proven nothing at the NHL level so let's bury him in the AHL along with Schneider as well seeing as he hasn't proven anything either....


Nobody was ever saying that, so stop making things up to win arguments.


Anyway, I agree with Red Dragons, Kassian hasn't accomplished anything in the NHL yet so we should wait and see before praising him like a hockey god. He's a great prospect and we all hope he'll work out, but he has to earn his respect and his roster spot on this team like everybody else. And Baggins is right, not all new players get benched by AV, he gives them ice time if they play within his system responsibly.

#107 Red Light Racicot

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 12:28 PM

The season after his career year Raymond put up about the same points even strength as he did the year before. His production drop was on the PP but his 70 point center was replaced by a 30 point center and he had 33% less PP time. His PP production was virtually guaranteed to drop given those circumstances. His 10/11 season was nowhere near as a bad as people made out. It was only a bad year if you look at the point total while completely ignoring the circumstances.


Perhaps, but I feel the drop off in his play can also be blamed on how his shot was so mediocre.

His skating, although fast, seems to have balance issues (at an NHL level? really?)

How come he never does what makes him truly effective and drive it to the net anymore?

I think AV should award him ice time when he improves these things. I question whether AV knows what he is doing if he thinks he is awarding good play with ice time in Raymond's case.

Edited by Red Light Racicot, 31 July 2012 - 12:29 PM.


#108 Baggins

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 12:47 PM

Wait what??

Kesler had 70 points both years (09-10 and 10-11) and he was on his wing both years, you'd think with Kesler's breakout year that Raymond would have benefited a little more, and just because he wasn't put on the PP with Kes or the Sedin's isn't much of an excuse for me, he isn't good enough to get PP time with them, he has to earn it. And your right he might not be as bad as people said but he still wasn't as good as the year before.

Apparently Ballard had a bad year too, people tend to rag on our players for previous years when they were fine but still, Raymond needs to secure a top 6 spot or else I don't see anywhere for him on this team.


An offensively talented center was replaced with an offensively challenged center is the point. The reduced PP time had nothing to do with "earning it". The second unit didn't get on the ice as often as the 1st unit was so efficient. Call it excuses if you want but the fact is who you play with has an effect and Malhotra isn't going to help anybody much offensively. He's never hit 15 goals or 40 points in his career. And here's a nugget for you: Kesler had 30 pp points in 10/11 with the Sedins compared to 26 with Raymond in 09/10. Putting Kesler on the 1st unit killed the second unit..Not to mention Samuelsson also being moved to the point on the 1st unit when Edler went down for the season. All the eggs were in the 1st unit basket. Raymond got Malhotra and the revolving door leftovers on the other wing. A drop in 2nd unit pp production was a given as far as I'm concerned.

Maybe you didn't notice that year but Raymond also had three injuries to contend with. Sprained wrist, broken thumb, and a shoulder injury. All of which affect shooting/passing. But that's just an excuse as well I suppose. Honestly, I complained less about Raymond that year than I did during his career year.

So is Kesler on his way out as well after a 24 point drop from the previous year or does actually get to use injuries as an excuse? His pp production even dropped to 19 points despite having the Sedins to help him. Does he need to go as well?

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#109 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 12:53 PM

Why should he when we have more experienced veteran depth?

Perhaps if those young players actually earned a spot with consistent play moreso than what the other veteran players already contribute, then maybe they'd actually earn more ice time.

Starting Kassian on the 4th line and letting him earn his ice time is the way to go, and exactly what AV's been doing with him. I don't see a problem with that.


Shirokov plays a good game, scores. Get's sent down.

Kassian gets 2nd line time, plays well, scores. Get's put back on the 4th the following game in place of Raymond.

Then there is how great Hodgson was for a time (and I'm over him) but I'm just saying.

I understand playing the veteran's but if a younger guy is playing better you give him the ice time, Ice time isn't determined by experiance and how old you are, it should be determined by how good you play.

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#110 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 01:00 PM

An offensively talented center was replaced with an offensively challenged center is the point. The reduced PP time had nothing to do with "earning it". The second unit didn't get on the ice as often as the 1st unit was so efficient. Call it excuses if you want but the fact is who you play with has an effect and Malhotra isn't going to help anybody much offensively. He's never hit 15 goals or 40 points in his career. And here's a nugget for you: Kesler had 30 pp points in 10/11 with the Sedins compared to 26 with Raymond in 09/10. Putting Kesler on the 1st unit killed the second unit..Not to mention Samuelsson also being moved to the point on the 1st unit when Edler went down for the season. All the eggs were in the 1st unit basket. Raymond got Malhotra and the revolving door leftovers on the other wing. A drop in 2nd unit pp production was a given as far as I'm concerned.

Maybe you didn't notice that year but Raymond also had three injuries to contend with. Sprained wrist, broken thumb, and a shoulder injury. All of which affect shooting/passing. But that's just an excuse as well I suppose. Honestly, I complained less about Raymond that year than I did during his career year.

So is Kesler on his way out as well after a 24 point drop from the previous year or does actually get to use injuries as an excuse? His pp production even dropped to 19 points despite having the Sedins to help him. Does he need to go as well?


No I'll give Raymond the benefit of the doubt and say that it was injury trouble.

But there is a huge difference between Kes and Raymond, Kesler has shown and proven that he can hit 70 points, Raymond has just had a career year, he may never hit his 09-10 pace again, Kesler has hit 70 twice and is proven that he can do it, to me just hitting it once doesn't make you proven, maybe at the time it does, but then you see cases like Raymond and Higgins where they can never get that production again.

As for the PP, your right but I'm happy it is like that, yes we killed our 2nd unit, which is a good excuse for Raymond's lack of production to a degree but I think you should put all your eggs in one basket, you have that time to your advantage and you should use every advantage you have to make the most of it.

Last year he had Coho who played better than Kes for parts of the year, and that center still didn't help him, I'll give him another chance because that's only fair but I think he has to hit atleast 20 goals and around 40+ points for it to be deemed a successful year for him, he has the tools he just has to put it all together and get rid of his bad habits.

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#111 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 01:21 PM

Shirokov plays a good game, scores. Get's sent down.

Kassian gets 2nd line time, plays well, scores. Get's put back on the 4th the following game in place of Raymond.

Then there is how great Hodgson was for a time (and I'm over him) but I'm just saying.

I understand playing the veteran's but if a younger guy is playing better you give him the ice time, Ice time isn't determined by experiance and how old you are, it should be determined by how good you play.


This, our young players earned more icetime then they received, how are you supposed to improve at the NHL level when you don't get the ice time and you're afraid of getting demoted every time you make a mistake? I played hockey and it's very hard to play your game when you have that in the back of your head the whole time. I mean, Hodgson barely even got used in the shootout and clearly he was one of our better players at it. Kassian was already ppg in the AHL when he was down there, he needs to play in the NHL and get used to the strength and speed of players, AHL isn't going to do anything for him.

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#112 Baggins

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 01:40 PM

Perhaps, but I feel the drop off in his play can also be blamed on how his shot was so mediocre.

His skating, although fast, seems to have balance issues (at an NHL level? really?)

How come he never does what makes him truly effective and drive it to the net anymore?

I think AV should award him ice time when he improves these things. I question whether AV knows what he is doing if he thinks he is awarding good play with ice time in Raymond's case.


His three injuries could easily explain the less effective shot in 10/11 but despite those injuries he still put up comparable even strength points to his career year. One of the reasons I don't see him as nearly as bad as people made out.

People respect his speed too much now. He doesn't have the size to bull through defenders which means he needs the positional edge to drive the net. There's simply no point in driving the net when you don't have the edge on the defender. Something that Booth could stand to learn. Although he has better size than Raymond he tries to drive the net far too often when the play just isn't there. Btw, Bure use to do the exact same thing as Raymond when leading the rush. Bure was excellent at recognizing whether the cut to the net was there or not. When it wasn't he'd go behind the net and try to cut to the middle from the half boards on the other side to look for the shot or the passing play. And NOOOO I'm not comparing Raymonds "skill level" to Bure's. Just the fact that like Bure, he recognizes when the net play isn't there and goes around the net to look for the play.

This last season was far worse for his falling down. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt due to that back injury. But Burrows use to have the same problem. He used his speed to the out of control point far too often. Burrows is much better at using his speed but maintaining control now but it took him a few seasons. There's still hope for Raymond.

I think AV does reward play. As I've said several times, AV is pretty patient with players who are in a scoring slump as long as they are playing well both directions. And in 10/11 Raymonds defensive play took a leap forward. It's not like Raymond wasn't moved down to the 3rd and 4th line as he was. Higgins moved into his spot and produced for a while. When he went cold he swapped Raymond back in. It went on all season.

I truly think many here see what they want to see when it comes to the players. Players they don't like they focus mainly on mistakes while the mistakes of those they like go ignored. And once a player has been turned on (and it can happen quickly here) he'll have one hell of a time getting back into the good books.

If something better comes along I'll gladly smile and waive good-bye to Raymond. As I would with any player on the team. But I honestly don't think Raymond is as bad as people make out. We'll see this fall after Raymond has had a healthy off season to workout.

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#113 Baggins

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 02:07 PM

Shirokov plays a good game, scores. Get's sent down.

Kassian gets 2nd line time, plays well, scores. Get's put back on the 4th the following game in place of Raymond.

Then there is how great Hodgson was for a time (and I'm over him) but I'm just saying.

I understand playing the veteran's but if a younger guy is playing better you give him the ice time, Ice time isn't determined by experiance and how old you are, it should be determined by how good you play.


Actually Shirokov quit back checking after he scored. I remember that game. He got benched in the 3rd as well. Scoring a goal doesn't automatically mean p[laying well.

I don't think Kassians fitness level was where it needed to be. When he got ice time he looked kind of like Sundin when he first joined the team....wheezing his way off the ice. Kassian just didn't seem to look as good as games went on. That's why I'm pretty happy to hear about his dropping some weight this summer and working out hard. I'm really looking forward to seeing what he can do. Although unlike most here, it would bother me to have him playing bigger minutes on the farm team if it means extra depth. At 21 it certainly won't hurt him.

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#114 Linden53

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 02:28 PM

Kassian has got a long way to go before he's a top six player. He has all the tools the size and by all accounts the desire, however he needs time to develop and understand many things yet. He's young, I am not saying he's never going to get there, I am saying hes a big body power forward and they ALWAYS take time to develop. He needs to put is time in on the bottom 6 or in the AHL to learn how to be effective, when the right time to drop the gloves is, and how to use his body to create and generate lots of scoring opportunites. He will get there, as long as he puts the work in and doesn't think short term only like most of the "geniuses" on here do. Kassian will be fine, he will get the minutes he deserves.

#115 Linden53

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 02:36 PM

Shirokov plays a good game, scores. Get's sent down.

Kassian gets 2nd line time, plays well, scores. Get's put back on the 4th the following game in place of Raymond.

Then there is how great Hodgson was for a time (and I'm over him) but I'm just saying.

I understand playing the veteran's but if a younger guy is playing better you give him the ice time, Ice time isn't determined by experiance and how old you are, it should be determined by how good you play.


So you just basically stated exactly what AV does ( he plays guys that deserve to play ) and in the same paragraph your condemming AV for sending people down when they don't play a complete game. Shirokov never knew what his goalie's name was because he couldnt find that end of the rink, Kassian still not only needs to learn the system but how to play in his own end without the puck and Hodgson was showcased in limited un-screwupable roles in order to raise his value in a trade. Gillis admitted they protected him greatly in order to move him. Hodgson's run was a direct result of not having to play to great a role. What did he do in Buffalo after he was put in a big role again? Yeah - exactly. There are reasons AV Gillis and the rest do what they do. There is more to hockey than scoring one goal a game or running around aimlessly. This is not a video game, you can't change difficulty levels if your trades don't work out etc. Kassian will be a solid power forward, how great he becomes is up to him and how much he learns and works. Next year he will not be great, he might become good, but thats as far as it will go for him next season. Beyond that, who knows.

#116 Burrows91

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 07:51 PM

I believe Hodgson accomplished a whole lot more last year! He already had the respect before he left. big Z-bo hasnt done squat! although i really do hope he turns out to be something! but i'm not holding my breath. this team really needs something for a playoff payoff!


Hodgson is a year older than Kassian, I was talking about the year Hodgson had when he was Kassian's age...

Hodgson: 8 GP - 2 Points

Kassian: 44 GP - 10 Points

they both weren't stellar at 21, so if Hodgson had accomplished so much in his year at 22 then why not give Kassian a chance? Multiply Hodgson's totals by 5 and it's 40 GP and 10 Points...not an extremely accurate assumption but very similar to what Kassian put up

Edited by Burrows91, 31 July 2012 - 07:51 PM.

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#117 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 03:04 PM

Actually Shirokov quit back checking after he scored. I remember that game. He got benched in the 3rd as well. Scoring a goal doesn't automatically mean p[laying well.

I don't think Kassians fitness level was where it needed to be. When he got ice time he looked kind of like Sundin when he first joined the team....wheezing his way off the ice. Kassian just didn't seem to look as good as games went on. That's why I'm pretty happy to hear about his dropping some weight this summer and working out hard. I'm really looking forward to seeing what he can do. Although unlike most here, it would bother me to have him playing bigger minutes on the farm team if it means extra depth. At 21 it certainly won't hurt him.


Yeah that's fair about Shirokov, I'll give you that.

Kassian was playing better than Raymond, that might be true but he was still better so it's really just an excuse, Kassian was fine at both ends, he's good enough to play at this level, was playing better than the competition (Raymond).

Even if all that stuff you said about Kassian is true (even though I didn't think it was a huge deal, he looked okay to me) he was still playing better than Raymond, so I don't see any reason to change that.

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#118 gouda

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 03:43 PM

Hodgson is a year older than Kassian, I was talking about the year Hodgson had when he was Kassian's age...

Hodgson: 8 GP - 2 Points

Kassian: 44 GP - 10 Points

they both weren't stellar at 21, so if Hodgson had accomplished so much in his year at 22 then why not give Kassian a chance? Multiply Hodgson's totals by 5 and it's 40 GP and 10 Points...not an extremely accurate assumption but very similar to what Kassian put up

Actually i was reffering to the statement that Hodgson never did anything while he was here. not a compairson at a specific age. and hodgson had physical problems that weren't properly identified and treated until recently. also you can hardly make a compairison of 8 games to half a season to get into the swing of things! anyways i'm sure zbo will work out good for us in the end, or gills wouldnt of pulled the trigger. and tbh i got better hopes for patticake and Jensen. also think alot of or core are to have breakout years this year and next ex. Burr, Kes, Booth, HANSEN, mayray. all still time to peak!




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