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Christy Clark's Religion Comments Spark Criticism From B.C. Atheists


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#331 Slaytanic Wehrmacht

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 01:42 PM

[quote name='dajusta' timestamp='1344371925' post='10833770']
Yeah you used the wake of Alex as reference to his existence. I can do the same.

How about prophetic language. Watch this video, tells you that 5th century documents actually predicted the emergence of Alexander the Great. How do you refute this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHRP0I2SrVs
[/quote]

As you grasp even tighter at invisible straws to keep yourself upright, I will find it mildly ironic that you only read that part of the post and not the relevant part about how if dead saints were to be seen stalking the streets of a major city of the roman empire...SOMEONE might have said SOMETHING...but they didn't, because there was never anything like that that occurred, just as there was no jesus, and that's all I have to say on the subject.
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#332 gurn

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 01:45 PM

"Watch this video, tells you that 5th century documents actually predicted the emergence of Alexander the Great. How do you refute this"


Nostradamus is reported to have predicted 911 because after the event someone read a quatrain and said "this is what he meant by big silvery birds fly into mountains."

#333 Sharpshooter

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 01:48 PM

Yeah you used the wake of Alex as reference to his existence. I can do the same.

How about prophetic language. Watch this video, tells you that 5th century documents actually predicted the emergence of Alexander the Great. How do you refute this?



Here's your refutation.....and evidence so we can put this nonsensical issue to rest.

Posted Image
Gold coins featuring the likeness of Alexander the Great are set to go on display for the first time at Bulgaria’s National History Museum in Sofia today (February 18th).

The treasure, which was discovered in the village of Rezhantsi in the 1960s, is believed to be around 2,300 years old, the Washington Post reports.

At the official launch of the exhibition, the museum’s deputy director, Dr Ivan Hristov, said the coins were found inside a pot when it was broken by a tractor, Bulgarian news service Novinite stated.

Around 6,000 coins were originally discovered, but some were sold in western Europe and the United States.

The coins are believed to have been struck during the Thracian era, when Bulgaria was ruled by the successors of Alexander the Great, the general, king and politician whose empire spanned three continents from Greece to Egypt and parts of India.

Alexander died in 323 BC.


silver tetradrachm of Alexander the Great, 336-323 BCE

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Now show me some equally direct or indirect evidence of Jesus.

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#334 Sharpshooter

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 01:49 PM

They didn't blow themselves up months after Muhammed came up with his scripture.


No, they actually died for him, in his armies, for Allah after he began conquering the Arab peninsula after having the angel Gabriel recite the Word of Allah to him in a cave.....so they died much sooner with their belief.

Do they win??

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#335 dajusta

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 01:52 PM

As you grasp even tighter at invisible straws to keep yourself upright, I will find it mildly ironic that you only read that part of the post and not the relevant part about how if dead saints were to be seen stalking the streets of a major city of the roman empire...SOMEONE might have said SOMETHING...but they didn't, because there was never anything like that that occurred, just as there was no jesus, and that's all I have to say on the subject.


I didn't have to comment on the latter part of your arguments supporting Alexander the Great because of the premise that derives from you conclusions. How could I explain to you why there is no documentation of Jesus after the resurrection if you still wish to turn a blind eye to the wake of Jesus today that proves his existence? If I didn't get pass this point, there is no real point getting to the second.

Say you did understand what I said, then I can explain to you that scholarly work and historians are all Roman. Do you find it surprising that Roman authorities didn't write or procure manuscripts that attest to this zealot? You really think Jewish Pharisees would want to immortalize this self proclaimed God?

The best primary source for the existence of Jesus is the writings of Paul. A JEWISH PHARISEE who had ROMAN CITIZENSHIP knew everything there is about the law and cultural expectations, yet he gave his life to Jesus and became a missionary himself. His documents and letters are all authentic to its time. There is absolutely no way you can deny the aftermath of Paul.
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#336 dajusta

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 01:55 PM

Here's your refutation.....and evidence so we can put this nonsensical issue to rest.






Now show me some equally direct or indirect evidence of Jesus.


You didn't get to the point at all.

Biblical scripture written in 5th century BCE predicted the emergence of Alexander, his empire, AND his death. He died in 323BCE, some 200 years after it was written.
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#337 dajusta

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 01:56 PM

No, they actually died for him, in his armies, for Allah after he began conquering the Arab peninsula after having the angel Gabriel recite the Word of Allah to him in a cave.....so they died much sooner with their belief.

Do they win??


Watch the video.
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#338 Slaytanic Wehrmacht

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 01:57 PM

I didn't have to comment on the latter part of your arguments supporting Alexander the Great because of the premise that derives from you conclusions. How could I explain to you why there is no documentation of Jesus after the resurrection if you still wish to turn a blind eye to the wake of Jesus today that proves his existence? If I didn't get pass this point, there is no real point getting to the second.

Say you did understand what I said, then I can explain to you that scholarly work and historians are all Roman. Do you find it surprising that Roman authorities didn't write or procure manuscripts that attest to this zealot? You really think Jewish Pharisees would want to immortalize this self proclaimed God?

The best primary source for the existence of Jesus is the writings of Paul. A JEWISH PHARISEE who had ROMAN CITIZENSHIP knew everything there is about the law and cultural expectations, yet he gave his life to Jesus and became a missionary himself. His documents and letters are all authentic to its time. There is absolutely no way you can deny the aftermath of Paul.


Ah yes...Paul...another person who wrote ABOUT this fictional savior and never actually met him. My response to that would be, so what? A man who instructed a group of people he wrote an epistle to to have their women "keep silent in the churches", among other misogynistic nonsense.
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#339 Sharpshooter

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 01:59 PM

They didn't blow themselves up months after Muhammed came up with his scripture.


So the manner in which they died is more important to you than the point made that they died believing, just as much as reportedly did the followers of a Jesus figure??

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#340 dajusta

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:00 PM

Ah yes...Paul...another person who wrote ABOUT this fictional savior and never actually met him. My response to that would be, so what? A man who instructed a group of people he wrote an epistle to to have their women "keep silent in the churches", among other misogynistic nonsense.


So what is your explanation? That within the centuries of Pharisaical law, one of the highest priest and scholars decided to make his own religion? That he actually came up with his own theology and withstood persecution for the sake of making a religion, who doesn't even worship HIM but worships someone else?

Seriously, what's your explanation.
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#341 Sharpshooter

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:01 PM

You didn't get to the point at all.

Biblical scripture written in 5th century BCE predicted the emergence of Alexander, his empire, AND his death. He died in 323BCE, some 200 years after it was written.


So what?

He was still real.

The point that you're totally missing, is that Alex was real based on evidence, and Jesus doesn't have any equal evidence to suggest he was.

You're the one that brought the comparison up. I've produced evidence to show why one is real......and i've asked you to do the same now.

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#342 Slaytanic Wehrmacht

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:02 PM

You didn't get to the point at all.

Biblical scripture written in 5th century BCE predicted the emergence of Alexander, his empire, AND his death. He died in 323BCE, some 200 years after it was written.


You have absolutely NO idea when the bible was written, you just speculate, like everybody else who has taken up the yoke as a religious apologist. And furthermore, as I mentioned in the last post you only took bits and pieces from...the only reason "Jesus" worship is even still around is because it survived, among a huge pack of similar religions, with similar tenets, around the fourth century. So congratulations...your belief isn't still around because it is "steadfast and truthful"...it's still around because it outlived all the other crapola from around its same time
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#343 dajusta

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:02 PM

So the manner in which they died is more important to you than the point made that they died believing, just as much as reportedly did the followers of a Jesus figure??


This is just one of the many reasons why I believe Jesus exist.

I believe Muhammed exists, I don't say to Muslims, your prophet never existed. Now in terms of content and truth, that is another topic.

You choose to reject the existence of Jesus, and I use martyrs as a source of valid proof of Jesus existence. Do not play a rhetorical trick and make this an argument for something it isn't.
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#344 Sharpshooter

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:02 PM

So what is your explanation? That within the centuries of Pharisaical law, one of the highest priest and scholars decided to make his own religion? That he actually came up with his own theology and withstood persecution for the sake of making a religion, who doesn't even worship HIM but worships someone else?

Seriously, what's your explanation.


The same reason why Muhammed made up his story.....for power and control under one banner of higher authority.

You can't see the parallels?

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#345 Sharpshooter

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:04 PM

This is just one of the many reasons why I believe Jesus exist.

I believe Muhammed exists, I don't say to Muslims, your prophet never existed. Now in terms of content and truth, that is another topic.

You choose to reject the existence of Jesus, and I use martyrs as a source of valid proof of Jesus existence. Do not play a rhetorical trick and make this an argument for something it isn't.


People have been killed, sacrificed and martyred for Zeus. Do you believe that he's real too??

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#346 dajusta

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:06 PM

You have absolutely NO idea when the bible was written, you just speculate, like everybody else who has taken up the yoke as a religious apologist. And furthermore, as I mentioned in the last post you only took bits and pieces from...the only reason "Jesus" worship is even still around is because it survived, among a huge pack of similar religions, with similar tenets, around the fourth century. So congratulations...your belief isn't still around because it is "steadfast and truthful"...it's still around because it outlived all the other crapola from around its same time


What the heck? The bible is a collection of SEVERAL works. Nice try bub, trying to make me tell you one specific date when the whole collection was written.

The book of Daniel, has time stamped "the third year of Cyrus King of Persia," which is relatively 537BCE.
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#347 dajusta

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:08 PM

People have been killed, sacrificed and martyred for Zeus. Do you believe that he's real too??


I don't believe in Zeus, but it's undeniable that those who preached and taught about Zeus were real.

Do you get my point? It's only ignorant Atheists who deny the existence of Jesus. Many of the informed Atheists recognized that he DID exist due to all the logical implications we have today.

To believe Jesus as the supernatural is another story.
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#348 Sharpshooter

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:12 PM

I don't believe in Zeus, but it's undeniable that those who preached and taught about Zeus were real.

Do you get my point? It's only ignorant Atheists who deny the existence of Jesus. Many of the informed Atheists recognized that he DID exist due to all the logical implications we have today.

To believe Jesus as the supernatural is another story.


But, i'm following the logic of your belief. If you believe Jesus was real because people died for him, then logically you would believe in Zeus as well.

Doesn't that ring rational and logical to you??

Of course the people were real. No one's suggesting that you're not real either. The point is whether or not the subject of their beliefs was real. And by your own logical parameters for establishing whether someone was real or not, in that they had followers who dies for them, then again, Zeus must therefore also be thought of as 'real' by you......yes?


Which logical implication am I missing in my ignorance as an 'Atheist', by the way? Please enlighten me.

Edited by Sharpshooter, 07 August 2012 - 02:12 PM.

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#349 Slaytanic Wehrmacht

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:14 PM

What the heck? The bible is a collection of SEVERAL works. Nice try bub, trying to make me tell you one specific date when the whole collection was written.

The book of Daniel, has time stamped "the third year of Cyrus King of Persia," which is relatively 537BCE.


Yes, it is a collection of several works that have been plagiarized from such sources as The Egyptian Book of The Dead, The Epic of Gilgamesh, etcetera...that may be the date that those particular stories were plagiarized, yes...but the date it was originally conceived? Doubtful.
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#350 Sharpshooter

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:15 PM

What the heck? The bible is a collection of SEVERAL works. Nice try bub, trying to make me tell you one specific date when the whole collection was written.

The book of Daniel, has time stamped "the third year of Cyrus King of Persia," which is relatively 537BCE.


So it was written by a man, 500 years later? Interesting.

Did 'God' just wait 500 years to inspire this man to write it? Seems an awfully long time after his own/son's death does it not?

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#351 dajusta

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:19 PM

So it was written by a man, 500 years later? Interesting.

Did 'God' just wait 500 years to inspire this man to write it? Seems an awfully long time after his own/son's death does it not?


I don't understand you.

Book of Daniel, written way before Alexander the Great, predicts a man to conquer from west to east.
This man will be cut off early.
His empire will turn into 4.
These 4 turns into 2.
And the 2 turn into 1.

Alexander was killed in his 30's.. his empire given to his 4 generals.. the 4 turn into the two kingdoms the seleucids and ptolemny, and then they turn into the Roman empire.

Edited by dajusta, 07 August 2012 - 02:22 PM.

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#352 Slaytanic Wehrmacht

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:22 PM

I don't understand you.

Book of Daniel, written way before Alexander the Great, predicts a man to conquer from west to east.
This man will be cut off early.
His empire will turn into 4.
These 4 turns into 2.
And the 2 turn into 1.

Alexander was killed in his 20's.. his empire given to his 4 generals.. the 4 turn into the two kingdoms the seleucids and ptolemny, and then they turn into the Roman empire.


And this "prediction"....proves absolutely nothing. Everything in those "prophecies" is so vague that you could realistically take anyone in any time period, match up the statistics and say..."Oh look, the bible prophesied that!" Complete hogwash.
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#353 Sharpshooter

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:23 PM

I don't understand you.

Book of Daniel, written way before Alexander the Great, predicts a man to conquer from west to east.
This man will be cut off early.
His empire will turn into 4.
These 4 turns into 2.
And the 2 turn into 1.

Alexander was killed in his 20's.. his empire given to his 4 generals.. the 4 turn into the two kingdoms the seleucids and ptolemny, and then they turn into the Roman empire.


What does that have to do with whether or not Jesus was real? Or why God waited 500 years after his own death/his son's death to write the book of Daniel through Daniel?

Oh and why don't you believe in Zeus again? People died for him too.....just saying.

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#354 dajusta

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:26 PM

And this "prediction"....proves absolutely nothing. Everything in those "prophecies" is so vague that you could realistically take anyone in any time period, match up the statistics and say..."Oh look, the bible prophesied that!" Complete hogwash.

What does that have to do with whether or not Jesus was real? Or why God waited 500 years after his own death/his son's death to write the book of Daniel through Daniel?

Oh and why don't you believe in Zeus again? People died for him too.....just saying.


Okay this is getting out of hand.

We jump from topic to topic and there is no conclusive thought or idea for us to move onto anything.

Back track the posts if you wish. I refuse to continue mindless drubble with folk that take the word illogical and spew it at the end of every sentence as the basis for their own academic assertion.

Lastly, I don't believe in the supernatural powers of Zeus, but as for the people who started Zeus, they undoubtedly existed. They exist because of the concept of Zeus today. You have to admit that Jesus walked this earth because of the incredible following of the early church, and the church today.

Edited by dajusta, 07 August 2012 - 02:28 PM.

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#355 AbbyNucksFan

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:28 PM

What does that have to do with whether or not Jesus was real? Or why God waited 500 years after his own death/his son's death to write the book of Daniel through Daniel?

Oh and why don't you believe in Zeus again? People died for him too.....just saying.


while I agree with pretty much everything you are saying in this thread, he dajusta is saying the book of Daniel was written 500 BC not AD
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#356 Slaytanic Wehrmacht

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:29 PM

Okay this is getting out of hand.

We jump from topic to topic and there is no conclusive thought or idea for us to move onto anything.

Back track the posts if you wish. I refuse to continue mindless drubble with folk that take the word illogical and spew it at the end of every sentence as the basis for their own academic assertion.


And I refuse to continue to try and have a rational conversation with someone who has his nose stuck so far up "jesus"'s behind he can tell what he had for breakfast. Reality calls...have a ____ (insert adjective here) day.
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#357 Sharpshooter

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:29 PM

Okay this is getting out of hand.

We jump from topic to topic and there is no conclusive thought or idea for us to move onto anything.

Back track the posts if you wish. I refuse to continue mindless drubble with folk that take the word illogical and spew it at the end of every sentence as the basis for their own academic assertion.



So it's our fault? ;)

If you would stick to one topic by answering it, then perhaps we wouldn't have to follow your tangential 'hoppery' .

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#358 Jester13

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:30 PM

I don't understand you.

Book of Daniel, written way before Alexander the Great, predicts a man to conquer from west to east.
This man will be cut off early.
His empire will turn into 4.
These 4 turns into 2.
And the 2 turn into 1.

Alexander was killed in his 30's.. his empire given to his 4 generals.. the 4 turn into the two kingdoms the seleucids and ptolemny, and then they turn into the Roman empire.


Weren't the Spice Girls also prophetic on this matter when they sang "then two will be ooooonnnneee!"

"Education is the inoculator for ignorance."


#359 Sharpshooter

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:32 PM

while I agree with pretty much everything you are saying in this thread, he dajusta is saying the book of Daniel was written 500 BC not AD


Fair enough.

The question remain still posed however to Dajusta....how does that discredit whether or not Alex The Great was real in comparison to Jesus' existence, when one's existence is corroborated with evidence, and the other's existence is believed based on reports that people died because they believed in his existence?

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#360 Jester13

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:32 PM

Okay this is getting out of hand.

We jump from topic to topic and there is no conclusive thought or idea for us to move onto anything.

Back track the posts if you wish. I refuse to continue mindless drubble with folk that take the word illogical and spew it at the end of every sentence as the basis for their own academic assertion.

Lastly, I don't believe in the supernatural powers of Zeus, but as for the people who started Zeus, they undoubtedly existed. They exist because of the concept of Zeus today. You have to admit that Jesus walked this earth because of the incredible following of the early church, and the church today.


Mother Goose is real as well because I know of the concept of her, my mommy used to read it to me eeeeeevery night

"Education is the inoculator for ignorance."





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