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Keith Ballard Is Worth $4.2 Million If He Gets Used On The Power Play


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#61 Dogbyte

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 08:21 PM

i would rather have him on the pp than bieksa. all bieksa does is take a wrist shot lol

Yeah, Bieksa shoots like my grandma (or Tanev), but he scores now and then.
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#62 rotiman187

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 08:39 PM

PP d pairing

Edler-Garrison

Ballard-Bieksa
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#63 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 09:47 PM

If you haven't noticed, AV tends to do certain things to players who come from other teams/rookies and haven't played in his system.

1. He tears them down, kind of a purging of the bad habits they may have learned on weaker teams, didn't play in more disciplined two way systems (see Ballard, Booth etc). Guys like Lappy and Higgins fit right in because they were defensively responsible players. See CoHo and Kassian. This can impact their short term confidence because they over think, they stop playing the offensive game they are used to, and don't feel like they are contributing.

2. He then forces them to earn their ice by playing within the system.

3. As they show they can play both ways, accept the team concept he gives them more ice. Then the confidence starts coming back and their offensive game thrives as if you play well in your own end, you get more chances. He did this with Kesler, with Burrows, Naslund (didn't work, too late to change his game) etc.

I think we are starting to see that with Ballard, that his defensive game is coming around and he will see more ice as he continues to play within the team concept. Booth we shall see what happens this year.

But this is simply good coaching, its called getting / training players to buy into the system, and this is why we have won back to back president's trophies.

AV is not a problem he is a terrific coach and knows what he is doing.


No he isn't.


But to the OP, someone finally sees what I have been saying, he should get PP time, his skating ability could be a real asset but AV won't give it to him. Now that Rome is gone he will probably give it to Alberts.
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#64 canucks10271999

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 10:20 PM

totally agree should be in top 4
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#65 samurai

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 11:30 PM

Year 1 was a learning period, year 2 injuries were the issue. This year if he can stay healthy should be a respectable year for him He is not a big D but he doesn't seem to avoid the rough stuff.

I am expecting a good solid season from him.
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#66 Baggins

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 01:10 AM

Ballard had no history of brain injury until he put on a Vancouver uniform.
Concussions are head injuries.You don't hide them from anybody.They happen and you live with them.
If the team that you work for can not diagnose them do not blame the head injured as they are compromised.
If you think Ballard 'pulled something' you have little to no understanding of brain injuries.


Sure. People rely entirely on doctors telling them how they feel. On the other hand doctors don't rely on the the patient telling them how they feel at all. They can tell just by looking at you that you have a headache.

Sadly, the truth is medical staff rely a great deal on their patients being forthcoming about how they are feeling and what symptoms they are experiencing. Misdiagnosis becomes quite easy if the patient isn't 100% honest about his condition.
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#67 Showtime29

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 01:25 AM

[/media]

This^^

Edited by Showtime29, 08 August 2012 - 01:26 AM.

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#68 nuck nit

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 01:41 AM

Sure. People rely entirely on doctors telling them how they feel. On the other hand doctors don't rely on the the patient telling them how they feel at all. They can tell just by looking at you that you have a headache.

Sadly, the truth is medical staff rely a great deal on their patients being forthcoming about how they are feeling and what symptoms they are experiencing. Misdiagnosis becomes quite easy if the patient isn't 100% honest about his condition.


Baggins can you please clarify if you have any personal knowledge of concussions/brain injuries and or head injuries other than what you have casually read somewhere?
Also,are you suggesting somebody has not been honest?
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#69 Baggins

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 02:28 AM

totally agree should be in top 4


Who you moving down? The choice is Edler and his 50 points, or Hamhuis and his shutdown ability. Who should Ballard replace in the top four? Do bear in mind Ballard plays left side and has said himself he isn't comfortable on the right.
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#70 Baggins

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 03:02 AM

Baggins can you please clarify if you have any personal knowledge of concussions/brain injuries and or head injuries other than what you have casually read somewhere?
Also,are you suggesting somebody has not been honest?


I've had several concussions. The first when I was 10. Would you like the complete history?

Although I highly doubt there is a need to have had a concussion to know that doctors rely a great deal on what their patients tell them. Anybody that's played any competitve sports would also know athletes will often downplay injuries in order to continue playing. It's simply a part of their competitive nature. Only Ballard can tell you if he was 100% honest with the medical staff. I can't say he wasn't any more than you can say he was. Without that information blame simply cannot be placed on the medical staff as it's nothing more than speculation on your part.
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#71 nuck nit

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 04:17 AM

Well,if you had serious head injuries beyond concussion into LOC you would know they are potentially life threatening,Baggins.
That is the category Ballard finds himself in.Any concussions suffered after a serious head injury is cumulative,as you know.
If there is a head injury that included LOC then the brain has suffered potential massive brain cell death,already,and that defining anything for a doctor that does not have specific neurological brain injury/trauma training is a waste of time,for starters.
To be specific only highly trained neuruologists that specialize in severe concussions would be able to make an informed decision as to these injured player's specific symptoms and impairments.
No NHL team,that I am aware of ,employ full time neurologists,yet over 10% of NHL players suffered at least one concussion in 2010.
88 NHL players missed at least one game due to concussions in 2011/2012:
http://www.cbc.ca/sp...sions-list.html
It is not about being 'honest',Baggins.It is about having neurologically competent and qualified medical staff that can properly diagnose/evaluate severe brain injuries.
Nobody that suffers tramautic brain injuries fakes them or can eliminate their symptoms or speed up their recovery.If the medical staff are unqualified the players have a serious problem and it is not their credibility at risk.It is their lives.
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#72 Baggins

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 05:52 AM

Well,if you had serious head injuries beyond concussion into LOC you would know they are potentially life threatening,Baggins.
That is the category Ballard finds himself in.Any concussions suffered after a serious head injury is cumulative,as you know.
If there is a head injury that included LOC then the brain has suffered potential massive brain cell death,already,and that defining anything for a doctor that does not have specific neurological brain injury/trauma training is a waste of time,for starters.
To be specific only highly trained neuruologists that specialize in severe concussions would be able to make an informed decision as to these injured player's specific symptoms and impairments.
No NHL team,that I am aware of ,employ full time neurologists,yet over 10% of NHL players suffered at least one concussion in 2010.
88 NHL players missed at least one game due to concussions in 2011/2012:
http://www.cbc.ca/sp...sions-list.html
It is not about being 'honest',Baggins.It is about having neurologically competent and qualified medical staff that can properly diagnose/evaluate severe brain injuries.
Nobody that suffers tramautic brain injuries fakes them or can eliminate their symptoms or speed up their recovery.If the medical staff are unqualified the players have a serious problem and it is not their credibility at risk.It is their lives.


And if the medical staff asks the player if he's suffering from headaches, nausea, or blurred vision and he says not at all, should they assume he's not being honest and send him to a specialist or should they believe him? It has nothing to do with faking injuries nor eliminating symptoms. It's about the reality that players are not always honest about having the symptoms so they can continue playing. If the player says, "I feel fine. I'm 100%." what's a doctor to do?

As I have said, you can't simply lay the blame on the medical staff without the first hand knowledge that Ballard was completely forthright about his condition in the first place.
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#73 nuck nit

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 07:41 AM

Concussions,head injuries,neck injuries,brain tramau or brain injuries are so complex and intricate that special medical attention is the only way to begin to address symptoms and depth of injury,never mind anticipate or hypothecate any recovery.

You hear the coaches and GM's speak of 'the protocol' or the 'concussion protocol'. It really shows progress but the NHL refuses to properly enforce or enhance it.

The NHL is just coming in out of the dark ages in addressing the validity of concussions and associated diseases resulting from brain trauma.

I am not 'blaming' anybody,Baggins.I could care less how inept the Canucks medical staff look to me with some basic knowledge on this subject. I will say they are improving their attitudes and attention but it still seems inadequate on some levels to me.

As somebody that has suffered multiple,serious concussions I can testify that even those regarded as the most prestigious neurologists have serious problems with diagnosis,never mind treatment.How did they expect me to provide them with complex neurological answers? They did not.The only recovery is rest and the time frame is unlimited and unknowable.

Early onset dementia and Parkinson's or deep memory loss and depression is not a reward for coming back one month early to become concussed yet again.

The onus is NEVER on the injured player regarding brain injuries,in addressing his own condition or progress or recovery.
Every brain injured person has deep decision making disabilities,especially immediately following head injury.

Your theory is that players lie about their injuries.Whatever.
Either the NHL team's medical staff have to accept to rely more on neurological specialists or they will continue to endanger player's lives.
Time to come out of the dark ages.Players lives are depending on it and it is only barely being addressed even now.

http://theconcussion...hl-concussions/
http://www.cdc.gov/c...orts/index.html

Under the N.H.L.’s injury-disclosure policy, clubs may not lie about players’ injuries, but they are not obligated to volunteer specifics. “You guys didn’t ask, so I didn’t give you the information,” Tortorella said in September when asked why the Rangers did not disclose Staal’s concussion.
The N.H.L., the players association and players say the policy is in place to preserve players’ privacy and to protect them from targeted hits that might aggravate injuries.
Dr. Paul S. Echlin, a concussion specialist and researcher from London, Ontario, who has conducted head-injury studies with junior teams, said he agreed with the impulse to preserve privacy. But he also said, “Leadership should come from all areas,” including professional clubs, when it comes to proper treatment of head injuries.
“When you’re dealing with a serious, life-altering thing like a brain injury, you don’t minimize it,” Echlin said. “It’s a player’s individual right not to disclose. But this not giving the full answer is a difficulty I have with it. If you’re going to go forward with concussion prevention, you have to be honest and open about it.”
Echlin pointed to apparent inconsistencies in the application of the in-game concussion protocol, which was announced with great fanfare last season.

.
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#74 higgyfan

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 10:28 AM

Ballard has great speed and showed signs (last season) that he is improving his game. I think MG was hoping that Ballard would replace Erhoff as the teams' puck-moving D. He doesn't seem to have the greatest hockey sense, which may be keeping him off the top 4 or PP. And, alas...he is a tad small for todays' game.

We have little defensive depth so far and unless the rookies can step up, I would be very concerned about trading Ballard. In fact, I wish we still had Rome, as he was a great utility D.
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#75 Baggins

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:02 AM

Concussions,head injuries,neck injuries,brain tramau or brain injuries are so complex and intricate that special medical attention is the only way to begin to address symptoms and depth of injury,never mind anticipate or hypothecate any recovery.

You hear the coaches and GM's speak of 'the protocol' or the 'concussion protocol'. It really shows progress but the NHL refuses to properly enforce or enhance it.

The NHL is just coming in out of the dark ages in addressing the validity of concussions and associated diseases resulting from brain trauma.

I am not 'blaming' anybody,Baggins.I could care less how inept the Canucks medical staff look to me with some basic knowledge on this subject. I will say they are improving their attitudes and attention but it still seems inadequate on some levels to me.

As somebody that has suffered multiple,serious concussions I can testify that even those regarded as the most prestigious neurologists have serious problems with diagnosis,never mind treatment.How did they expect me to provide them with complex neurological answers? They did not.The only recovery is rest and the time frame is unlimited and unknowable.

Early onset dementia and Parkinson's or deep memory loss and depression is not a reward for coming back one month early to become concussed yet again.

The onus is NEVER on the injured player regarding brain injuries,in addressing his own condition or progress or recovery.
Every brain injured person has deep decision making disabilities,especially immediately following head injury.

Your theory is that players lie about their injuries.Whatever.
Either the NHL team's medical staff have to accept to rely more on neurological specialists or they will continue to endanger player's lives.
Time to come out of the dark ages.Players lives are depending on it and it is only barely being addressed even now.

http://theconcussion...hl-concussions/
http://www.cdc.gov/c...orts/index.html

Under the N.H.L.’s injury-disclosure policy, clubs may not lie about players’ injuries, but they are not obligated to volunteer specifics. “You guys didn’t ask, so I didn’t give you the information,” Tortorella said in September when asked why the Rangers did not disclose Staal’s concussion.
The N.H.L., the players association and players say the policy is in place to preserve players’ privacy and to protect them from targeted hits that might aggravate injuries.
Dr. Paul S. Echlin, a concussion specialist and researcher from London, Ontario, who has conducted head-injury studies with junior teams, said he agreed with the impulse to preserve privacy. But he also said, “Leadership should come from all areas,” including professional clubs, when it comes to proper treatment of head injuries.
“When you’re dealing with a serious, life-altering thing like a brain injury, you don’t minimize it,” Echlin said. “It’s a player’s individual right not to disclose. But this not giving the full answer is a difficulty I have with it. If you’re going to go forward with concussion prevention, you have to be honest and open about it.”
Echlin pointed to apparent inconsistencies in the application of the in-game concussion protocol, which was announced with great fanfare last season.

.


Are you daft?
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#76 yete

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:02 AM

oonly if it was that simple..........

i mean they got him from flordia traded away a first rounder and yet the guy bearly gets any pp time?

Genius AV wow ur such a genius like wow

Edited by yete, 08 August 2012 - 11:03 AM.

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#77 dangler696969

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:05 AM

The way our coach uses Ballard, I would rather have grabner back. That would help our top 6
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#78 King of the ES

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:06 AM

Ballard didn't suddenly go from being capable of playing 20+ minutes per game with regular PP time, to being unusable in the span of a summer.


Well, yes he did, because that's exactly what happened.

Explain to me the logic in AV "holding somebody back". AV has one real interest - keeping his job. The way that he keeps his job is by winning games. The way that he wins games isn't by benching "20+ minute per game with regular PP time" defencemen. There is SOMETHING about Ballard that clearly does not fit with something about AV. He either does not understand the system, has a bad attitude, or AV just think he plain stinks.

Either way, I applaud AV. IN NO WAY does he benefit by benching Ballard; in fact, it even places an easy target on him, if anything, by way of all you people thinking that the only thing preventing Keith Ballard from morphing into Duncan Keith is Alain Vigneault. And that's crap.
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#79 King of the ES

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:12 AM

Gotta say, really needed to see this again to realize his potential.
We need him to play to his value this year....


You should check out all the Kyle Wellwood highlights on YouTube from his Maple Leaf days, too, real impressive stuff.
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#80 Drybone

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:14 AM

I've had several concussions. The first when I was 10. Would you like the complete history?

Although I highly doubt there is a need to have had a concussion to know that doctors rely a great deal on what their patients tell them. Anybody that's played any competitve sports would also know athletes will often downplay injuries in order to continue playing. It's simply a part of their competitive nature. Only Ballard can tell you if he was 100% honest with the medical staff. I can't say he wasn't any more than you can say he was. Without that information blame simply cannot be placed on the medical staff as it's nothing more than speculation on your part.


Are you sure you aren't Steve Moore?

I feel so sorry that good ol Steve got a non disprovable career ending illness that doctors can only grapple at. Amazing how poor Steve ended up with this exact illness.

His broken neck healed fine. Too bad about the non disprovable side illness that is sure to rake in the billions.
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#81 Baggins

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:17 AM

Well, yes he did, because that's exactly what happened.

Explain to me the logic in AV "holding somebody back". AV has one real interest - keeping his job. The way that he keeps his job is by winning games. The way that he wins games isn't by benching "20+ minute per game with regular PP time" defencemen. There is SOMETHING about Ballard that clearly does not fit with something about AV. He either does not understand the system, has a bad attitude, or AV just think he plain stinks.

Either way, I applaud AV. IN NO WAY does he benefit by benching Ballard; in fact, it even places an easy target on him, if anything, by way of all you people thinking that the only thing preventing Keith Ballard from morphing into Duncan Keith is Alain Vigneault. And that's crap.


I think hell just froze over.....I actually agree with you.
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#82 nuck nit

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 04:34 PM

Are you daft?


Baggins,your ignorance defines your knowledge base on this issue.

Edited by nuck nit, 08 August 2012 - 06:32 PM.

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#83 Baggins

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 05:38 AM

Baggins,your ignorance defines your knowledge base on this issue.


You need to pull your head out of your arse. I'm well aware of concussions and what they mean. I don't need information about concussions whatsoever as I've been through five of them. What you are completely ignoring is the possibility of a player simply not admitting to the coaches or medical staff that he's suffering from the symptoms. Which has been my freaking point all along. But just ignore that point yet again and just stick your head back up your bung hole and tell me some more about concussions and how serious they can be. You can even provide more links if you like. It won't change the fact that it all starts with the player being honest about having the symptoms in the first place.
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#84 Snake Doctor

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 11:14 AM

Does anyone know what kind of off season training Ballard is doing?
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#85 gopher canuck

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 11:53 AM

Keith works very hard in the summer. Living in the cities I know he works out with Paul Martin, Jordan Leopold, Thomas Vanek off and on. They are all former Gophers and skate at the U of M along with members of the current team and any others. I have heard from a friend that he has a summer place in central Mn and he has his own gym set up and works out every day while there.
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#86 Pistachios

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 12:06 PM

Does anyone know what kind of off season training Ballard is doing?


Hopefully shooting practice!!! He says he can't even hit the side of a barn!!!

Edited by SILLY GOOSE, 09 August 2012 - 12:07 PM.

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#87 Red Light Racicot

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 02:21 PM

Sure. People rely entirely on doctors telling them how they feel. On the other hand doctors don't rely on the the patient telling them how they feel at all. They can tell just by looking at you that you have a headache.

Sadly, the truth is medical staff rely a great deal on their patients being forthcoming about how they are feeling and what symptoms they are experiencing. Misdiagnosis becomes quite easy if the patient isn't 100% honest about his condition.


Since players oft times dont even realize when theyve had a concussion, whos to say they arent being honest?

The doctor needs to be able to look past that when it comes to concussions.
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#88 Baggins

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 03:11 AM

Since players oft times dont even realize when theyve had a concussion, whos to say they arent being honest?

The doctor needs to be able to look past that when it comes to concussions.


When the symptoms are there, my experience has been that they are pretty apparent. This is why the doctors ask questions. Other than sending a player straight off to a specialist they have to rely a great deal on the player answering their questions honestly. During a game it's pretty basic testing they can do. It can even be 24 to 48 hours before symptoms appear.

I'm not saying they aren't being honest. But can you say with any certainty that they always are? That's been my point all along. It starts with the player being honest.
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#89 Red Light Racicot

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 02:10 PM

When the symptoms are there, my experience has been that they are pretty apparent. This is why the doctors ask questions. Other than sending a player straight off to a specialist they have to rely a great deal on the player answering their questions honestly. During a game it's pretty basic testing they can do. It can even be 24 to 48 hours before symptoms appear.

I'm not saying they aren't being honest. But can you say with any certainty that they always are? That's been my point all along. It starts with the player being honest.


I have no problem giving Ballard the benefit of the doubt.

I havent heard about any malcontentment despite being marginalized. No hardheadedness or ego problems that I am aware of. No trade demands.

I cant help but think it is more likely that the Canucks medical staff dropped the ball yet again, given their track record.
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#90 nuck nit

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 04:11 PM

"When the symptoms are there, my experience has been that they are pretty apparent." Baggins

Baggins has it ever occurred to you that the world -especially brain injury -does not revolve around you and your experience?
I mean,I know you think and act like you know it all but your rationale is ridiculously narcissistic and totally idiotic.

Brain injury facts:
Because the brain is very complex, every brain injury is different. Some symptoms may appear right away, while others may not show up for days or weeks after the concussion. Sometimes the injury makes it hard for people to recognize or to admit that they are having problems.
The signs of concussion can be subtle. Early on, problems may be missed by patients, family members, and doctors. People may look fine even though they’re acting or feeling differently.
Because all brain injuries are different, so is concussion recovery. Most people with mild injuries recover fully, but it can take time. Some symptoms can last for days, weeks, or longer.
http://www.brainline...ry_pageall.html

"I'm not saying they aren't being honest. But can you say with any certainty that they always are? That's been my point all along. It starts with the player being honest." Baggins

Yes,you are.That is exactly what you are saying and you are an insincere blowhard for even suggesting it,never mind posting it .Do five minutes of research before blabber mouthing,Baggins.

"On the other hand doctors don't rely on the the patient telling them how they feel at all. They can tell just by looking at you that you have a headache." Baggins

Yeah,more wise words from Baggins- the CDC trained neuorologist.

The signs of concussion can be subtle...problems may be missed by patients, family members, and doctors.
Remember, you can’t see a concussion and some athletes may not experience and/or report symptoms until hours or days after the injury.
http://www.cdc.gov/c.../recognize.html
BrainLine.org is a WETA website funded by the Defense and Veterans Brain Injury Center

Concussion
  • A concussion can be caused by direct blows to the head, gunshot wounds, violent shaking of the head, or force from a whiplash type injury.
  • Both closed and open head injuries can produce a concussion. A concussion is the most common type of traumatic brain injury.
  • A concussion is caused when the brain receives trauma from an impact or a sudden momentum or movement change. The blood vessels in the brain may stretch and cranial nerves may be damaged.
  • A person may or may not experience a brief loss of consciousness (not exceeding 20 minutes). A person may remain conscious, but feel “dazed” or “punch drunk”.
  • A concussion may or may not show up on a diagnostic imaging test, such as a CAT Scan.
  • Skull fracture, brain bleeding, or swelling may or may not be present. Therefore, concussion is sometimes defined by exclusion and is considered a complex neurobehavioral syndrome.
  • A concussion can cause diffuse axonal type injury resulting in permanent or temporary damage.
  • It may take a few months to a few years for a concussion to heal.
  • http://biausa.fyrian....htm#concussion
Types of Brain Injury

Diffuse Axonal Injury (TBI)
Concussion (TBI)
Contusion (TBI)
Coup-contre coup injury (TBI)
Second Impact Syndrome (TBI)
Open and Closed Head Injuries
Penetrating Injury (TBI)
Shaken Baby Syndrome (TBI)
Locked in Syndrome (TBI)
Anoxic brain injury (ABI)
Hypoxic brain injury (ABI)

http://biausa.fyrian....htm#concussion

Edited by nuck nit, 10 August 2012 - 05:51 PM.

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