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[Proposal] VAN-PHI

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#1 shadowgoon

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 09:47 AM

With news of Andrej Meszaros blowing out his Achilles tendon, and losing out on Weber their blueline is significantly weaker, especially with the doubt surrounding Pronger.

This might be an opportune time to make a hockey trade with Philly to acquire a T6 forward and forget this whole Doan saga.

VAN:

W Simmonds
3rd Round Pick, 2013

PHI:

K Ballard
J Hansen
1st Round Pick, 2013

Canucks move on from Ballard and free up the 4.2m sitting on the bottom pairing (he really should be in someones T4) and get a young strong T6 winger with good potential in return.

Philly get's needed defensive depth and gain a 1st round pick, as well as a good grinding forward for their bottom 6.

This might even clear up enough cap space to be able to sign Doan, and keep Luongo on the roster until a bidding war ensues.

Sedin/Sedin/Doan
Booth/Kesler/Simmonds
Higgins/Lapierre/Burrows
Raymond/Malhotra/Kassian

Juice-Hammer
Edler-Garrison
____-Tanev

Schneider
Luongo

#2 Ryan Kesler RK17

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 10:00 AM

No. Just crap in the toilet then eat it.
Edit:The Hansen part because he is one of our best playoff performers.

Edited by TheMagicOfSedinery, 07 August 2012 - 10:01 AM.

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#3 c00kies

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 10:01 AM

I don't think it'd be wise to trade a 1st rounder for a 3rd line (and possibly 2nd line) checker, especially with another hole created on the back end.
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#4 D.Doughty

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 10:02 AM

Wayne Simmonds is a 30 goal scorer.... he's not a 3rd liner

#5 shadowgoon

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 10:18 AM

Wayne Simmonds is a 30 goal scorer.... he's not a 3rd liner


Exactly this, and he's only 23. Younger, Stronger, Added Offense. It fills every criteria Gillis is looking to acquire for his rebuild on the fly

#6 Tearloch7

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 10:20 AM

Ballard and a 1st, for Simmonds and a second, would suit me ..

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#7 Aladeen

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 10:21 AM

Giving up way too much for a redundant player imo. Booth, Burrows, Higgins, Hansen and yes even Raymond are all capable of bringing what Simmonds brings to the table and we already have them. Why make our D weaker and give up a first rounder to boot?

Take out the first rounder on Van's side and I would say maybe but it would be hard to replace what Hansen brings and what Ballard is capable of bringing.
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#8 JordanEberle

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 10:24 AM

Especially with this stacked draft year upcoming, that first round pick holds more value then it normally would. Hanging onto that is very important as it will likely add a strong player for our future core to build with.
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#9 Blueberries

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 10:44 AM

We need Ballard cuz if we trade him we r in the position as PHI is in now.

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#10 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 11:18 AM

For that price I would rather get Voracek, I think it is better to hold onto our depth, Simmonds is good but he isn't a huge upgrade on any of our current top 9 wingers.

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#11 Jai604

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 11:24 AM

Some of you have no idea what kind of player Simmonds is.

He's not a third liner, and most definitely not just a checker. He definitely brings something to the table that our current forwards don't, especially Raymond ( :picard:). He has size, and uses it. The guy can throw down from time to time too.

I'm not giving my opinion on this proposal, but seriously, some of you guys have no idea.

Edited by Jai604, 07 August 2012 - 11:25 AM.

RIP LB RR PD


#12 Jägermeister

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 11:26 AM

Philly would never ever ever make this trade.
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#13 Mack Attack

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 12:55 PM

It's an interesting deal. Simmonds > Hansen, plus we dump Ballard's cap. Good for us, but I'm not sure if Philly would go for it. Not comfortable with Alberts on the bottom pairing though, we'd have to add a defender somehow.

Edited by Mack Attack, 07 August 2012 - 12:56 PM.


#14 Alchemy Time

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 01:41 PM

Two ways I would do this deal: 1.If you replace the first rounder with a second and replace the Philly 3rd with a 4th or 5th, or 2. switch Hansen with Raymond, and take out Philly's 3rd, But that would be Ballard, Raymond, and a 1st for Simmonds, and although Ballard, Raymond, and a 1st can get any player in the world, it's slightly overused. With this years draft class I don't want to give up a first, no matter how late, unless it's a dealmaker for a huge player, which is VERY unlikely. Simmonds would be a great fit in our top six though.

Sedin-Sedin-Simmonds
Booth-Kesler-Burrows

(every player has scored 29 or more goals at least once.)

Edited by ER15, 07 August 2012 - 01:42 PM.

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#15 Nucks-4-Life

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 03:54 PM

I like Simmonds. The Nucks are lacking natural right wingers.

We could even try him with the Sedins.

Philly is going to be desperate now, and MG needs to utilize this to our advantage. He needs to sell Ballard as a top 4 D-man that just needs a change of scenery.

How about this:

Ballard and Sauve for Simmonds and a 2nd round pick.

-Philly gets the defensive depth they are lacking.
-Canucks get a gritty winger who could potentially put up 30 goals and a 2nd round pick in a very deep draft.

#16 Edlerberry

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 03:56 PM

We'd have to make another trade for another D man as well

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#17 Jägermeister

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 04:12 PM

How about this:

Ballard and Sauve for Simmonds and a 2nd round pick.

-Philly gets the defensive depth they are lacking.
-Canucks get a gritty winger who could potentially put up 30 goals and a 2nd round pick in a very deep draft.


Holmgren becomes violently angry at the insulting offer thrown his way.
That trade is just terrible.
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#18 PunjabiCanuck

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 03:06 AM

ballard and raymond + 2 2nd rounders for brayden schenn lol

#19 Pears

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 03:10 AM

Decent. Maybe take out Philly's pick, change our first to a second, and add in Tanev? So

To Vancouver: Wayne Simmonds

To Philly: Keith Ballard + Jannik Hansen + Chris Tanev + 2013 2nd

Probably the kind of overpayment it would take.

In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs


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#20 Canuck-Soju

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 12:02 PM

Hansen, Ballard and a 1st is a bit too much. Just Ballard and a 2nd just for Simmonds.

#21 gwarrior

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 03:20 PM

take hansen out of the deal and im on board. as for the 3rd pairing without ballard, let alberts and connaughton fight it out in camp.

#22 palindrom

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 07:00 PM

Revised proposal from a Flyers point of view.

VAN:

W Simmonds
3rd Round Pick, 2013
Matt Walker

PHI:

K Ballard
J Hansen
1st Round Pick, 2013

Much more interesting for Philadelphia. They can then flip the 1st and Hansen to find a worthy defenseman.

Edited by palindrom, 13 August 2012 - 07:18 PM.

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#23 Pears

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 02:53 AM

Revised proposal from a Flyers point of view.

VAN:

W Simmonds
3rd Round Pick, 2013
Matt Walker

PHI:

K Ballard
J Hansen
1st Round Pick, 2013

Much more interesting for Philadelphia. They can then flip the 1st and Hansen to find a worthy defenseman.

That makes absolutley no sense. The OP made perfect sense as Philly got their top 4 D man in one trade.

In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs


   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#24 Azzy Mahmood

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 03:07 AM

I can't believe people still think that Ballard has any value, or that other teams have any I retest in him.

Think about this deal from Philly's perspective:

- lose a 28-goal, young power forward
- lose a mid-round pick
- gain an overpaid, underachieving D
- gain a solid 3rd/4th liner
- gain a 25-30th pick in the next draft

Why would Philly do that deal? If they're losing Simmonds, they could get much better for him from elsewhere.

#25 shadowgoon

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 06:26 AM

In my opinion, Hansen and Simmonds are neck and neck until it comes to offensive potential, I see Simmonds as being a lock for any teams T6 whereas Hansen could be a fringe 2nd liner/elite 3rd liner. Philly gets a similar player back to replace Simmonds and gains a defenceman who at only 29 is a solid T4 defenceman. Prior to coming to the Canucks, Ballard had no fewer than 21 points and no more than 39.

I'm thoroughly convinced that Ballards lack of offensive contribution here is a direct result of AV's utilization of him with the current roster. Bottom pairing minutes inherently means the situations he will play in on average lack in significance and has a completely different mindset from playing on the top 2 pairings.

Ballard isn't a bottom pairing defenceman, he's only being used as such. He has value, albeit at an all time low right now. I think more than anything you have to fault Gillis for even considering bringing him in, not because of the player he is but because of the knowledge of knowing who your coach is and the situation you're bringing the player into.

Gillis got romped on the Ballard trade, trading Bernier, Grabner and a 1st (Quinton Howden) for Ballard and Oreskovich, it was a poor trade from an asset management perspective, though I would say he made up for it with the Booth trade.

Point is, given a legitimate shot Ballard will regain his form. He hasn't lost a step or any of his skillset, he's just the type of player that needs to be surrounded by good players and play meaningful minutes, and there's nothing wrong with that at all.

I would think that Ballard, Hansen, 1st for Simmonds, 2nd is more than fair. It's a deep draft next year, so Philly essentially moves up, they get their T4 defensive help and a good checking winger with offensive upside.

#26 Pears

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 06:37 AM

In my opinion, Hansen and Simmonds are neck and neck until it comes to offensive potential, I see Simmonds as being a lock for any teams T6 whereas Hansen could be a fringe 2nd liner/elite 3rd liner. Philly gets a similar player back to replace Simmonds and gains a defenceman who at only 29 is a solid T4 defenceman. Prior to coming to the Canucks, Ballard had no fewer than 21 points and no more than 39.

I'm thoroughly convinced that Ballards lack of offensive contribution here is a direct result of AV's utilization of him with the current roster. Bottom pairing minutes inherently means the situations he will play in on average lack in significance and has a completely different mindset from playing on the top 2 pairings.

Ballard isn't a bottom pairing defenceman, he's only being used as such. He has value, albeit at an all time low right now. I think more than anything you have to fault Gillis for even considering bringing him in, not because of the player he is but because of the knowledge of knowing who your coach is and the situation you're bringing the player into.

Gillis got romped on the Ballard trade, trading Bernier, Grabner and a 1st (Quinton Howden) for Ballard and Oreskovich, it was a poor trade from an asset management perspective, though I would say he made up for it with the Booth trade.

Point is, given a legitimate shot Ballard will regain his form. He hasn't lost a step or any of his skillset, he's just the type of player that needs to be surrounded by good players and play meaningful minutes, and there's nothing wrong with that at all.

I would think that Ballard, Hansen, 1st for Simmonds, 2nd is more than fair. It's a deep draft next year, so Philly essentially moves up, they get their T4 defensive help and a good checking winger with offensive upside.

Agreed with everything you said. It wouldn't look so bad for Florida losing Garrison if they still had Ballard, not to mention that we could've iced this line up: (if we get Doan)

Sedin - Sedin - Doan
Booth - Kesler - Kassian
Burrows - Schroeder - Grabner
Higgins - Lapierre - Hansen

Edler - Garrison
Hamhuis - Bieksa
Tanev - Connauton

Schneider

If we gave Grabner time, he could've turned into that pure offensive sniper we haven't had since Bure. Oh well, we all make mistakes.

In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs


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#27 Schnieds

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 09:08 AM

In my opinion, Hansen and Simmonds are neck and neck until it comes to offensive potential, I see Simmonds as being a lock for any teams T6 whereas Hansen could be a fringe 2nd liner/elite 3rd liner. Philly gets a similar player back to replace Simmonds and gains a defenceman who at only 29 is a solid T4 defenceman. Prior to coming to the Canucks, Ballard had no fewer than 21 points and no more than 39.

I'm thoroughly convinced that Ballards lack of offensive contribution here is a direct result of AV's utilization of him with the current roster. Bottom pairing minutes inherently means the situations he will play in on average lack in significance and has a completely different mindset from playing on the top 2 pairings.

Ballard isn't a bottom pairing defenceman, he's only being used as such. He has value, albeit at an all time low right now. I think more than anything you have to fault Gillis for even considering bringing him in, not because of the player he is but because of the knowledge of knowing who your coach is and the situation you're bringing the player into.

Gillis got romped on the Ballard trade, trading Bernier, Grabner and a 1st (Quinton Howden) for Ballard and Oreskovich, it was a poor trade from an asset management perspective, though I would say he made up for it with the Booth trade.

Point is, given a legitimate shot Ballard will regain his form. He hasn't lost a step or any of his skillset, he's just the type of player that needs to be surrounded by good players and play meaningful minutes, and there's nothing wrong with that at all.

I would think that Ballard, Hansen, 1st for Simmonds, 2nd is more than fair. It's a deep draft next year, so Philly essentially moves up, they get their T4 defensive help and a good checking winger with offensive upside.


Why can't the same thing be said about Mike Komisarek? He and Ballard have very similiar numbers over the past 2 years and Komi hits and blocks a lot more shots than Ballard does. So would you give up a 28 goal scorer for Komisarek? It's really the same thing as what you're proposing here.

#28 palindrom

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 10:52 AM

That makes absolutley no sense. The OP made perfect sense as Philly got their top 4 D man in one trade.


Make no sense ? the future will tell.....

Flyers is a young team with lot of potential, im looking long term here, by not getting Ballard they will be able to use the 4 200 000$ more wisely. (Just wait and watch in the next few weeks if they will get Ballard or another defenseman.....)

If the flyers doesn't get Ballard, then my argument make sense. If the OP make perfect sense, then they will do the trade for real, right?

Edited by palindrom, 14 August 2012 - 10:55 AM.

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#29 Azzy Mahmood

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 05:47 AM

Well this deal is dead now :lol:

#30 Kesler's Nose

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 11:04 PM

Simmonds just got signed to a new multi-year substantial deal, I highly doubt they would trade him.

I was all for getting him back when he was in LA, but people told me he didn't seem to have any upside and he was as good as he will get.. Right, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the guy is a 30 goal scorer in the peak of his career, which isn't too bad if I do say so myself. lol

But again with all these Hansen trade proposals, I like having him on our team. He's very versatile, I wouldn't wanna see him traded at all at this point.. Maybe if it involved something more of a block buster variety, but until then no way. <_<

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