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Texas executes mentally impaired inmate.


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#31 JLumme

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 10:49 AM

If they are in jail, I'd hardly compare them to a child, that's implying that they're innocent..

So yes, I don't think there should be a difference on how harsh the punishment is based on the person's intelligence.


Its entirely possible that they have the same mental abilities as a child, so what differentiates someone from a child besides their age?
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#32 Sharpshooter

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 10:50 AM

Still better than housing, feeding and educating them for the rest of their lives.


Better how?

More immoral and more unethical?
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#33 SukhKular

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 10:53 AM

It's more expensive to execute someone than it is to imprison them for the rest of their lives.

Next flawed argument supporting capital punishment please...


How much does it cost to give someone lethal injection? $5000? $10000? $30000? Do know how much it costs to house, feed, bath, and provide education for 1 person for up to 60 or 70 years?

Better how?

More immoral and more unethical?


I assumed it cost less.

Edited by SukhKular, 08 August 2012 - 10:53 AM.

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#34 JLumme

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:02 AM

How much does it cost to give someone lethal injection? $5000? $10000? $30000? Do know how much it costs to house, feed, bath, and provide education for 1 person for up to 60 or 70 years?



I assumed it cost less.


You'd save a lot more money if you just let the police kill the suspect as soon as they catch them. No pesky and expensive due process to get in the way. You know that there have been people executed in the US that were later exonerated?
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#35 JLumme

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:04 AM

The High Cost of the Death Penalty

The death penalty is much more expensive than life without parole because the Constitution requires a long and complex judicial process for capital cases. This process is needed in order to ensure that innocent men and woman are not executed for crimes they did not commit, and even with these protections the risk of executing an innocent person can not be completely eliminated.

If the death penalty was replaced with a sentence of Life Without the Possibility of Parole*, which costs millions less and also ensures that the public is protected while eliminating the risk of an irreversible mistake, the money saved could be spent on programs that actually improve the communities in which we live. The millions of dollars in savings could be spent on: education, roads, police officers and public safety programs, after-school programs, drug and alcohol treatment, child abuse prevention programs, mental health services, and services for crime victims and their families.

http://www.deathpena...ticle.php?id=42
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#36 Sharpshooter

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:13 AM

I assumed it cost less.


You assumed incorrectly.
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#37 Special Ed

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:16 AM

So our system of punishment and rehabilitation should be built around vengeance and making the victim's family feel better? What about the killer's family, they didn't murder anyone and to them losing their murderer/mentally challenged son will be just as awful as it was on the victim's family. Now you have two families who've lost someone. Except now we've also spent more money to kill this person to satisfy someone's blood thirst than it'd cost to house them for the rest of their life.

And that's to say nothing at all of the justice system that's prone to corruption, miscarriage of the law, and other non-ethical behavior. Or of the police, which is also quite prone to forging evidence, false claims, and a long list of dirty laundry.

Finally, who do we murder after the victim turns out to be innocent of the crime but pushing daisies?


Oh the poor killers family. A disabled man breaks into a home and kills the father in his sleep. Binds, rapes and murders the mother and daughters. The son manages to escape. But let's worry about the poor murderers family, because they should be able to bring their family member treats every day. Show him his favorite movies. Maybe take him for a massage. Ah the good life. Oh and let's try to save a little money while we're at it.

Many cases are more straight forward than others. I'm not saying take the death penalty lightly, but in open and shut cases get rid of these people. Put them down if there's no doubt as to what happened. I have more respect for animals over some people and we treat the animals far worse in general.
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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#38 KelownaCanucksFan

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:20 AM

He had the mental capacity to deal cocaine, kidnap and murder this supposed "snitch" he should be dealt with according to the laws where the crime occured. I personally favor the death penalty provided the person has been proven scientically and by credible eye witness(also a mandatory 2X appeal process) to have commited the murder, then they (male or female) should be executed humanely (I'd prefer that they were executed in the same manor they killed a person but thats considered too barbaric nowdays) they gave up their "human rights" when they took someone else's away imho.
The cost of holding just one of these wastes of skin in a Canadian jail is:

$113 974per year
$3 419 220 for a 30 year sentance. ($1 139 740 per 10 years of incarceration)


http://www.torontosu...prisoner-report
2006 canadian prison stats
http://www.prisonjus...acts_stats.html
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#39 DonLever

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:21 AM

Lucky the guy who killed all the people in the theater does not live in Texas. He would be guaranteed the death penalty. Texas executes the most people people in the US. The pleas of insanity would have a tough time in Texas.
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#40 Sharpshooter

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:23 AM

He had the mental capacity to deal cocaine, kidnap and murder this supposed "snitch" he should be dealt with according to the laws where the crime occured. I personally favor the death penalty provided the person has been proven scientically and by credible eye witness(also a mandatory 2X appeal process) to have commited the murder, then they (male or female) should be executed humanely (I'd prefer that they were executed in the same manor they killed a person but thats considered too barbaric nowdays) they gave up their "human rights" when they took someone else's away imho.
The cost of holding just one of these wastes of skin in a Canadian jail is:

$113 974per year
$3 419 220 for a 30 year sentance. ($1 139 740 per 10 years of incarceration)


http://www.torontosu...prisoner-report
2006 canadian prison stats
http://www.prisonjus...acts_stats.html



And what's the value on the lives of people who were innocent but were wrongly executed? Who will pay for that?
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#41 JLumme

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:24 AM

Oh the poor killers family. A disabled man breaks into a home and kills the father in his sleep. Binds, rapes and murders the mother and daughters. The son manages to escape. But let's worry about the poor murderers family, because they should be able to bring their family member treats every day. Show him his favorite movies. Maybe take him for a massage. Ah the good life. Oh and let's try to save a little money while we're at it.

Many cases are more straight forward than others. I'm not saying take the death penalty lightly, but in open and shut cases get rid of these people. Put them down if there's no doubt as to what happened. I have more respect for animals over some people and we treat the animals far worse in general.


There are many examples of 'open and shut' cases where the person executed, or sent to be executed, was not guilty.

http://en.wikipedia....ecific_examples

You're arguing from emotion, which is understandable, but it is also wrong.
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#42 Satan's Evil Twin

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:26 AM

Oh the poor killers family. A disabled man breaks into a home and kills the father in his sleep. Binds, rapes and murders the mother and daughters. The son manages to escape. But let's worry about the poor murderers family, because they should be able to bring their family member treats every day. Show him his favorite movies. Maybe take him for a massage. Ah the good life. Oh and let's try to save a little money while we're at it.

Many cases are more straight forward than others. I'm not saying take the death penalty lightly, but in open and shut cases get rid of these people. Put them down if there's no doubt as to what happened. I have more respect for animals over some people and we treat the animals far worse in general.


In your first paragraph the victim's family are victims. That was not the subject of my post nor the posts preceding it.

And we're back to "let's kill 'em because it'll make you feel better". Grand argument. Bravo.
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#43 Satan's Evil Twin

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:28 AM

There are many examples of 'open and shut' cases where the person executed, or sent to be executed, was not guilty.

http://en.wikipedia....ecific_examples

You're arguing from emotion, which is understandable, but it is also wrong.


You'd think a lawyer would be able to recognize emotional arguments over factual ones.
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#44 SukhKular

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:30 AM

And what's the value on the lives of people who were innocent but were wrongly executed? Who will pay for that?


Keeping someone in prison and releasing them 30 years later isn't exactly FAIR either.
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I'm saying Aladeen a lot because http://forum.canucks...dpost__10922428

I bet when Schneider turns 38, he will have broken all of Luongo's records.


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#45 goalie13

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:30 AM

The cost of holding just one of these wastes of skin in a Canadian jail is:

$113 974per year
$3 419 220 for a 30 year sentance. ($1 139 740 per 10 years of incarceration)


So take those costs and add on all the costs of lawyers for both sides through several levels of appeal.

Look at how long it's taking to deal with Stanley Cup rioters. It takes many, many years to exhaust all the appeals in order to put someone to death. Holding someone on death row is more expensive than holding someone in the general population. So take that cost plus the cost of all the appeals, and it winds up being more expensive to execute than it does to lock them up for the rest of their lives.
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#46 Sharpshooter

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:33 AM

Keeping someone in prison and releasing them 30 years later isn't exactly FAIR either.


More fair than killing them, which just happens to lasts longer than 30 years.

It also allows for new evidence to emerge or new methods or sources of evidence gathering.
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#47 JLumme

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:34 AM

You'd think a lawyer would be able to recognize emotional arguments over factual ones.


Are you saying Special Ed is a lawyer? I thought lawyers were supposed to be good writers, well, at least the good ones are.
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#48 Special Ed

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:35 AM

You'd think a lawyer would be able to recognize emotional arguments over factual ones.


Since you continue to play that broken record. And I'm unable to defend myself. Care to even things up and shed some light on your real life occupation? After all you persist on using a personal detail of my life against me, it's only fair I know one about you no? I'm sure that would be asking too much, far easier to hide behind a keyboard.
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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#49 Satan's Evil Twin

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:36 AM

Are you saying Special Ed is a lawyer? I thought lawyers were supposed to be good writers, well, at least the good ones are.


I don't believe anything without undeniable proof. I studied law and that's how law works. Based off facts. The iranians were caught with bombs in different countries. If we were in court I would have a much better chance accusing those iranian bombers of killing the Iranian scientists, than Israelis no matter how improbable it may seem.

Why no outrage over those Iranian bombers by the way in this thread? At least two different countries. What if they had hit their "civilian" targets? What will all you say about that?


:lol:
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#50 KelownaCanucksFan

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:37 AM

And what's the value on the lives of people who were innocent but were wrongly executed? Who will pay for that?


Back that up with a number, whats the percentage? The media always reprts on individual case, but wheres the hard numbers? With DNA testing nowdays and the CSI effect (http://www.nij.gov/j.../csi-effect.htm) its harder now days to get a conviction.
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#51 Sharpshooter

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:37 AM

Since you continue to play that broken record. And I'm unable to defend myself. Care to even things up and shed some light on your real life occupation? After all you persist on using a personal detail of my life against me, it's only fair I know one about you no? I'm sure that would be asking too much, far easier to hide behind a keyboard.


There's no 'fair' in lawyering and war.

If you're a lawyer, then I hope justice is deaf as well as blind.
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#52 Sharpshooter

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:40 AM

Back that up with a number, whats the percentage? The media always reprts on individual case, but wheres the hard numbers? With DNA testing nowdays and the CSI effect (http://www.nij.gov/j.../csi-effect.htm) its harder now days to get a conviction.


Are you suggesting that more than one innocent citizen being put to death wrongly, by their gov't, is not enough for you to not want any citizen to be put at risk to being put to death wrongly?

Edited by Sharpshooter, 08 August 2012 - 11:41 AM.

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#53 Special Ed

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:41 AM

Are you saying Special Ed is a lawyer? I thought lawyers were supposed to be good writers, well, at least the good ones are.


Sorry if I don't spend more than two minutes posting on a hockey forum, to please you.
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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#54 goalie13

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:42 AM

Back that up with a number, whats the percentage? The media always reprts on individual case, but wheres the hard numbers? With DNA testing nowdays and the CSI effect (http://www.nij.gov/j.../csi-effect.htm) its harder now days to get a conviction.


Since 1973, 140 people have been released from death row with evidence of their innocence.

http://deathpenaltyi...d-death-penalty
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#55 Special Ed

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:44 AM

There's no 'fair' in lawyering and war.

If you're a lawyer, then I hope justice is deaf as well as blind.


You win at the Internet. Here's a sticker. *
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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#56 Snake Doctor

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:49 AM

I love Texas ::D Especially the express lane to a lethal injection.

Edited by Snake Doctor, 08 August 2012 - 11:50 AM.

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#57 Special Ed

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:49 AM

Unable to defend yourself? Of course you're unable to, your own words are working against you. Even things up? Why would I volunteer personal information on a public forum for someone who refused to disclose his LSAT unless I met him for coffee in downtown?

AH I just realized why you want to go for coffee! You're a barista! That would explain horrible grammar and critical thinking skills you exude.


I was just merely pointing out that you would never meet up in real life. Because you know what I would see. Where I'm perfectly comfortable talking where it matters. I have no interest devoting a lot of time and effort here such as you. No need to hide. Cheers.

Edited by Special Ed, 08 August 2012 - 11:55 AM.

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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#58 Sharpshooter

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:50 AM

You win at the Internet. Here's a sticker. *


Poor settlement skills. You gave up too much.
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#59 Satan's Evil Twin

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:52 AM

I was just merely pointing out that you would never meet up in real life. Because you know what I would see. Where I'm perfectly comfortable talking where it matters. I have no interest devoting a lot of effort here such as you. No need to hide. Cheers.


And what is it you'd see?
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#60 KelownaCanucksFan

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:52 AM

So take those costs and add on all the costs of lawyers for both sides through several levels of appeal.

Look at how long it's taking to deal with Stanley Cup rioters. It takes many, many years to exhaust all the appeals in order to put someone to death. Holding someone on death row is more expensive than holding someone in the general population. So take that cost plus the cost of all the appeals, and it winds up being more expensive to execute than it does to lock them up for the rest of their lives.


Not if you have a law like Texas, where if there are 3 or more credible eye witnesses and over welming scientic proof then there is no 15 year appeals process, you go straight to the front of the line.

Like Ron White says
"I'm from Texas and in Texas we have the death penalty and we use it. That's right, if you come to Texas and kill somebody, we will kill you back. That's our policy. Right now there's a bill in the Texas legislature that would speed up the execution process of those convicted of a heinous crime with more than three credible witnesses. If more than three people saw you do what you did you don't sit on death row for 15 years Jack, you go straight to the front of the line. Other states are trying to abolish the death penalty. My state's puttin in an express lane"
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