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#121 Jai604

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 03:03 AM

And by the way, Special Ed, you're not really a lawyer, are you? You can stop trying to troll us now.
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#122 Aleksandr Pistoletov

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 03:36 AM

There's no financial benefit, and there is no social benefit. What then?

Theres only no financial benefit because of the bureaucratic nature of death row.

Killing the most obvious and heinous of criminals that obviously don't function in society like the rest of us do in an expedient fashion following trial and perhaps one sole appeal removes the cost burden of putting them through decades of death row, saving jail space for criminals who don't kill others and might function normally in society one day.

Unfortunately even people wrongly convicted for lesser crimes get their lives ruined, sometimes get killed in jail but that's humanity and it's imperfection.

I'm not all that into the death penalty but I'm also not opposed to reasonable middleground either.
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#123 Canuckerbird

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 05:42 AM

This quote is relevant to this topic in more ways than one.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. ~ Mahatma Gandhi

There are a number of reasons the death penalty has been abolished in the vast majority of civilized western democracies.

If murder is wrong (an offence in malum se - i.e. wrong in itself) then state sanctioned murder as punishment is worse because the state should know better. The idea of the state killing its own citizens as punishment for a crime (any crime) is barbaric.

Like virtually all enlightened western democracies (some US states are notable exceptions) Canada has rejected capital punishment politically and the Supreme Court of Canada has determined that is it unconstitutional. We have seen too many people wrongfully convicted of murder who were subsequently found innocent to be comfortable with capital punishment. Once the state has killed a person somehow "oops" just does not seem enough. It was just such a case that led Britain to abolish capital punishment.

Almost all European and many Pacific Area states (including Australia, New Zealand and Timor Leste), and Canada have abolished capital punishment. South Korea abolished it about 2 years ago. The United States is one of only two industrialized democracies that still have it (the other, Japan has a de-facto moratorium in effect),

I am not sure I would want to be on board with this group of countries who impose capital punishment:

* China
* Iran
* Saudi Arabia
* Pakistan
* USA (some states)
* Iraq
* Viet Nam
* Yemen
* Afghanistan
* Libya
* Japan
* Syria
* Sudan
* Bangladesh
* Somalia
* Equatorial Guinea
* Singapore
* Kuwait
* Indonesia
* Botswana
* Belarus
* Ethiopia
* Egypt
* North Korea


The Supreme Court of Canada has made that abundantly clear in the recent cases dealing with extradition and the death penalty that it will not pass constitutional muster under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. See the death penalty cases of United States of America v. Burns, [2001] 1 S.C.R. 283 and Suresh v. Canada (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration), 2002 SCC 1, [2002] 1 S.C.R. 3.

Atif Rafay and Sebastian Burns were not surrendered to the United States until the state of Washington agreed to take the death penalty off the table. Britain, France and Australia have done the same with extradition requests made by the USA as well.

As the Supreme Court of Canada noted international law is moving towards the Canadian position.

Adopted and proclaimed by General Assembly resolution 44/128 of 15 December 1989

The States Parties to the present Protocol,

Believing that abolition of the death penalty contributes to enhancement of human dignity and progressive development of human rights,

Recalling article 3 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, adopted on 10 December 1948, and article 6 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, adopted on 16 December 1966,

Noting that article 6 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights refers to abolition of the death penalty in terms that strongly suggest that abolition is desirable,

Convinced that all measures of abolition of the death penalty should be considered as progress in the enjoyment of the right to life,

Desirous to undertake hereby an international commitment to abolish the death penalty,

Have agreed as follows:

Article 1

1. No one within the jurisdiction of a State Party to the present Protocol shall be executed.

2. Each State Party shall take all necessary measures to abolish the death penalty within its jurisdiction.


In Europe the European Union bans the death penalty for members under the Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms (ECHR) and is a major force pushing for a world-wide ban with Italy leading the way at the United Nations.
http://uk.reuters.co...192317420070201


Protocol No. 13 to the ECHR

Article 1 – Abolition of the death penalty

The death penalty shall be abolished. No one shall be condemned to such penalty or executed.

Article 2 – Prohibition of derogations

No derogation from the provisions of this Protocol shall be made under Article 15 of the Convention.

Article 3 – Prohibition of reservations

No reservation may be made under Article 57 of the Convention in respect of the provisions of this Protocol.


As the Supreme Court of Canada has noted if an innocent person is executed there is no "do over" and there is convincing evidence of wrongful convictions. State sanctioned murder does not seem to be in the cards in Canada absent a constitutional amendment which I cannot see being passed under the amending formula. The only legally available option in Canada is incarceration and for those who remain a danger, continued incarceration.

If murderers cannot be rehabilitated and remain a danger to the public then you keep them locked up - rehabilitation is at the bottom of considerations for persons convicted of murder. That is why murder in Canada carries a sentence of life imprisonment and there is provision for the designation as a dangerous offender with an indeterminate sentence for other violent offences.

Most murderers in Canada do not get a second chance (and it is exceedingly rare for persons convicted of first degree murder where parole eligibility is set at 25 years). Those that do get paroled go through a rigorous screening process and since it is a life sentence even if they are paroled they are under supervision for the rest of their lives.

As to why parole at all for first degree murderers when the death penalty was abolished. The union for prison guards were concerned that without some faint hope of release it would be impossible to control inmates convicted of murder without the carrot of the possibility of future release on parole. As the Liberal Solicitor General of the day Warren Allmand noted during the abolition debate:

I disagree with those who argue that a life sentence with no parole eligibility for 25 years is worse than death. A period of incarceration, with hope of parole, and with the built-in additional incentive for the inmate, and protection for the guards (is necessary).


As the statistics show murderers in Canada spend on average 28.4 years in prison which pretty well matches up with US figures of murderers with no chance of parole spending 29 years in prison while US murderers who do have an opportunity of parole spend 18.5 years in prison. As it is murderers in Canada spend way more time in jail than other western democracies that have abolished the death penalty.

Before abolition of the death penalty killers who avoided execution but received life sentences for the old offence of capital murder were being held, on average, for slightly over 13 years.

In comparison to most other Western democracies, sentences of imprisonment in Canada are lengthy and have been increasing in recent years. A 1999 international comparison of the average time served in custody by an offender on a life sentence for first degree murder shows that Canada exceeds the average time served in all countries surveyed including the United States , with the exception of U.S. offenders serving life sentences without benefit of parole.

Average Time Spent in Custody
Australia 	14.8 years 			United States 	
Belgium 	12.7 years 			life without parole 	29 years
England 	14.4 years 			life with parole 	18.5 years
New Zealand	 11 years 		  
Scotland 	11.2 years 			Canada 					28.4 years
Sweden 			12 years

http://www.justice.g.../doc_31690.html

We do not kill persons convicted of murder because we are civilized society and we have evolved.

The official position of the Government of Canada:

The abolition of the death penalty is a significant development in the advancement of human rights. Everyone's right to life is enshrined in Section 7 of our Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. This fundamental right is also enunciated in Article 3 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and Article 6 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. Everyone's right to life is enshrined in Section 7 of our Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. This fundamental right is also enunciated in Article 3 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and Article 6 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.

http://www.csc-scc.g...rt/08-eng.shtml

Prime Minister Pierre Elliott Trudeau said in Parliament during the debate leading to the abolition of the death penalty in Canada in 1976:

Well, you may say, let's execute the murderer for the crime he has committed. Let's take a life for a life. Let's remove a savage animal from the human race. I do not deny that society has the right to punish a criminal, and the right to make the punishment fit the crime, but to kill a man for punishment alone is an act of revenge. Nothing else . . .

My primary concern here is not compassion for the murderer. My concern is for the society which adopts vengeance as an acceptable motive for its collective behaviour. If we make that choice, we will snuff out some of that boundless hope and confidence in ourselves and other people which has marked our maturing as a free people.


Earlier in 1966 a compromise bill that limited the death sentence to murderers of on-duty police officers and prison guards passed by the slimmest margins. A young justice minister named Pierre Elliott Trudeau called it "one step further from violence and barbarism."

In 1976 we took a giant step away from violence and abolished the barbaric practice of state sponsored murder like the vast majority of civilized nations and we refuse to return fugitives to face the death penalty in jurisdictions that are unenlightened (as do other abolitionist countries such as Britain, France and Australia).

Parliament again reaffirmed its commitment to abolish the death penalty when a motion to reintroduce it was defeated during a free vote in the House of Commons in 1987.

Over the years public support for return of the death penalty has been steadily dropping. In an extensive poll in 1998 it was found 48 per cent of Canadians support the death penalty, 47 per cent are opposed and 6 per cent are unsure. But 8 years later:

Posted Image

Gallup, 2006

And more to the point the death penalty is not an issue that is in forefront of concern for Canadians - probably because we have not executed a person in Canada since 1962. In 1996, a cross-section of 1500 Canadians were asked to name the major concerns and issues facing the country; not one named reinstatement of the death penalty as a priority.

In the USA v. Burns case the Supreme Court of Canada found that the death penalty is unconstitutional under section 7 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. As noted:


"Legal systems have to live with the possibility of error. The unique feature of capital punishment is that it puts beyond recall the possibility of correction."

And because there's no way to remedy a wrongful execution, the court continued, capital punishment violates Canada's protection of "life, liberty and . . . fundamental justice (under section 7 of the Charter)."

"The recent and continuing disclosures of wrongful convictions for murder in Canada and the United States provide tragic testimony to the fallibility of the legal system, despite its elaborate safeguards for the protection of the innocent."


Since abolition, 6 Canadian prisoners convicted of first-degree murder have been released on grounds of innocence. Two were incarcerated for more than 10 years before their innocence was established, after wrongful conviction for crimes that would likely have resulted in their execution if Canada had retained the death penalty. And since abolition not a single person convicted of murder who has been paroled has committed a subsequent murder.

In the USA, 138 people sentenced to death have subsequently been found innocent since 1970 - some posthumously.

The Supreme Court of Canada ruled it has a duty to protect the innocent. This duty is based in part on section 7 - the right to life and security of the person and section 11 of the Charter, which includes, for example, the presumption of innocence. To illustrate this point, cases of wrongful convictions were cited from Canada (the case of Donald Marshall, Jr. was specifically mentioned), the US and the United Kingdom. While "These miscarriages of justice of course represent a tiny and wholly exceptional fraction of the workload of Canadian courts in murder cases," the Court wrote, "where capital punishment is sought, the state's execution of even one innocent person is one too many."

The removal of capital punishment from the Canadian Criminal Code in 1976 has not led to an increase in the murder rate in Canada as opponents of abolition feared. In fact, Statistics Canada reports that the murder rate has generally been declining since the mid-1970s. In 2006, the national murder rate in Canada was 1.85 homicides per 100,000 population, compared to the mid-1970s when it was around 3.0.

And the murder rate fell again in the last 5 year period as Statistics Canada reported in October 2011 that Canada's homicide rate has dipped to its lowest level since 1966 - the homicide rate fell to 1.62 per 100,000 population. This puts paid to the arguments in favour of a return to the death penalty as a matter of deterrence (which BTW would be unconstitutional based on the latest SCC case law).
http://ottawa.ctv.ca...?hub=OttawaHome

The other interesting statistic is that although the murder rate dropped courts are more willing to find a person guilty of murder. The overall conviction rate for first-degree murder doubled in the decade following abolition (from under 10% to approximately 20%), so it seems courts are more willing to convict for murder now that they are not compelled to make life-and-death decisions.

The death penalty is clearly not a deterrent as study after study shows so the only rationale is imposition for vengeance. Even the Association of Canadian Chiefs of Police agree with that saying:

"It is futile to base an argument for reinstatement on grounds of deterrence".

All that leaves is vengeance as Prime Minister Trudeau has stated and that is not justice.

So yes I consider state sanctioned murder to be barbaric - as does the Parliament of Canada, the Supreme Court of Canada and noted Canadians such as Trudeau, Pearson and Diefenbaker and we have enshrined it in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms which is part of the supreme law of Canada. Hence it has been abolished and next year it will be half a century since Canada last hung a convicted murderer - state sanctioned murder as punishment for a crime will not be re-enacted unless the Charter is abolished. And the chance of that happening? Slim and none - and slim has left the building.

The death penalty has no efficacy in terms of deterrence, nor does it impact crime rates and only serves the purpose of satisfying some base desire for vengeance.

In summary I prefer the high road of civilization to the low road of vengeance and barbarism. YMMV.


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#124 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 05:52 AM

Hey, I actually intend to be a lawyer. <_<




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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

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That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

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#125 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 06:46 AM

International Polls and Studies

Posted: January 24, 2007

Country(-ies) Date Issues Japan 2/10 favor use of the death penalty Australia 10/07 most continue to oppose the death penalty Brazil 4/07 favor instituting death penalty Finland 11/06 split over use of death penalty Mexico 9/06 split over use of death penalty France 9/06 declining support Brazil 8/06 more favor death penalty Peru 8/06 favor reinstating the death penalty South Africa 5/06 favor reinstating the death penalty Dominican Republic 4/06 favor reinstating the death penalty for certain crimes Britain 2/06 lukewarm support for the death penalty UK and Canada 2/06 Death Penalty support lowest among youth in US, UK and Canada Australia 12/05 support abolition of death penalty Czech Republic 11/05 death penalty debate divided Italy 10/05 most Italians oppose the death penalty Russia 7/06 support for capital punishment high Japan 2/05 most favor death penalty Japan 12/04 Support levels, Respect for Victims New Zealand 07/04 DNA testing, support levels, crime laws South Korea 03/04 deterrence, administration, victim's families UK and Canada 10/03 declining support United Kingdom 08/02 declining support Canada 09/01 declining support, life without parole Canada 02/01 declining support, wrongful convictions Canada 12/98 declining support, life without parole
INTERNATIONAL POLLS


  • 2/3 of people in Australia believe people convicted of murder should not face the death penalty, according to a poll by Roy Morgan International. 67 % of respondents think the punishment for this crime should be imprisonment, down 2 points since December 2005. The last execution in Australian soil was carried out in 1967, and capital punishment was abolished in 1985. On Oct. 8, Robert McClelland—the opposition's Australian Labor Party (ALP) foreign affairs spokesman—said an ALP government would campaign against the death penalty across Asia, in coordination with 5 Asian nations that have abolished the maximum penalty. McClelland said that in order for this to be possible, "At the highest levels, Australia's public comments about the death penalty must be consistent with policy. (…) This is especially the case if we are going to tactfully and successfully drive a regional abolitionist movement." Australian prime minister John Howard, leader of the conservative Coalition of Liberals and Nationals, has said he opposes capital punishment at home and for Australians overseas, but supports the death penalty for terrorists. Polling Data: Next about the penalty for murder. In your opinion, should the penalty for murder be death or imprisonment?
    Oct. 2007: Death Penalty 24%, Imprisonment 67%, Can’t Say 9%
    Dec. 2005: Death Penalty 25% Imprisonment 69%, Can’t Say 7% (Angus Reid Global Monitoring: October 22, 2007)
  • Brazilians' support for death penalty at 14-year high - 55 % of Brazilians support instituting the death penalty, which does not exist in Brazil, according to the Datafolha survey published in the Folha de S. Paulo newspaper, Brazil's largest. That matches the rate reached in 1993, Datafolha said. The lowest rate was 48 % in 2000. The polling institute's first survey on the issue was in 1991. Datafolha said it interviewed 5,700 people across Brazil on March 19-20, and the survey had a margin of error of 2 % points. During the last survey in August 2006, 51 % of Brazilians favored the death penalty (Associated Press: April 8, 2007).
  • Only 1 of 3 Support the Death Penalty In Finland - A fresh survey indicates that 29 % of Finns would approve of the death penalty as a punishment for certain crimes committed during peacetime. Whereas 36 % of men would support the death penalty, only 22 % of women found it acceptable. Almost 41 % of those aged 35 to 49 are in favour of capital punishment. (Helsingin Sanomat, Suomen Gallup: November 21, 2006)
  • Only Forty Percent of the French Favor the Death Penalty On September 16th, 2006 TNS Sofres released a poll regarding the death penalty in France. Twenty-five years ago France abolished the death penalty, eventhough 62% of the French people supported capital punishment at that time. Currently, only 42% favor reinstating the death penalty, 52% are against reinstatement, and 6% have no opinion. (Nouvelobs.com, September 18, 2006)

  • Gallup Review Compares Support for Capital Punishment Among Countries - An examination of recent Gallup surveys in the United States, Great Britain, and Canada found that Americans are more supportive of the death penalty than are either Britons or Canadians. An October 2005 poll of Americans measured support for the death penalty at 64%, a figure that was significantly higher than the 44% support measured in Canada and the 49% support found in Great Britain during December 2005 polls. Support for the death penalty recently declined in both Great Britain and Canada, but remained the same in the U.S. as in 2003. (Nevertheless, American support for the death penalty is equal to its lowest level in 27 years.) In all three nations, support for capital punishment was lowest among those who were 18-29 years old. (Gallup Poll press release, "Death Penalty Gets Less Support From Britons, Canadians Than Americans," February 20, 2006).
  • Poll Shows Limited Growth in Support Despite Recent Crimes in Japan A recent government survey revealed that despite a recent rush of violent crimes in Japan, support for capital punishment had only risen by 2.1 percent, to 81.4%. The same poll, taken in December 2004, showed that 70.6% of respondents believed that the rights of victims were not respected during the investigations or the trial. 31.8% of respondents also believed that the death penalty would be abolished in the future. (The Japan Times, February 20, 2005)
  • Poll shows Limited Support for Death Penalty in New Zealand A poll by the One News Network and Colmar Brunton Polls showed that of 1,000 New Zealanders, only 28% were in favor of reinstituting the death penalty, against 67% who did not want the practice resumed. 58% of respondents wanted parole laws made more strict, and 28% wanted parole abolished altogether. Also addressed was the use of DNA testing, which 58% of those asked wanted the practice made mandatory. When asked about the death penalty, Justice Minister Phil Goff said that to "take the life of an innocent person is the worst thing that a state can do to its citizens," and as such the justice system could not always guarantee that it had convicted the right person. (Otago Daily Times, New Zealand, July 15, 2004)
  • Koreans Favor Cautious Use, Question Benefits to Victim's Families Results from a state-conducted survey released in March show that 65% of South Koreans believe that the death penalty should remain law. However, only 49% found the practice to be effective in preventing crime, and 58% believed that the country must use caution in administering the punishment. An overwhelming 90% believed that the death penalty provided no benefit for the families of victims. (Korea Times, March 23, 2004)

  • International Death Penalty.
  • Although previous opinion polls have indicated over 70% support for the death penalty in Canada, that support has dramatically dropped. A poll showed an even split on the death penalty generally, with 48% supporting it and 47% opposing it. When asked which sentence they would favor for the most serious crimes, 53% supported a life sentence and only 42% supported the death penalty. (Montreal Gazette, 12/31/98).
i am glad that 66% of australians feel the same as i do on this particular issue .
i would like to see a minimum of 25 years spent in prison for a person who is convicted of taking anothers life unlawfully , going by the
figures in canuckbirds post, canada seems to have got things right as far as i am concerned .
it also appears to me that people in some countries evovle morally , while in other countries a large percentageof the populace finds it hard to rise above the need for vengeance .


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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#126 Special Ed

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 02:04 PM

The thing about interacting with people on the internet is that the interaction is intellectual rather than physical , so it is relatively easy to get a good idea of another user's ability to ratiocinate .
now you say you do not want to make a distinguishable mark upon this board but you already have , and it is pretty obvious that if you are indeed a lawyer then your clients have some pretty serious problems , now i do not say this to be nasty but as another user has noted your ability to argue a point both rationally and logically is questionable and i believe this to be critically important in a profession such as the one you claim to belong to .
I am also aware that the legal profession has all sorts of people with their varying range of skills and attributes , and in saying this after interacting with you on these boards for some time now , i can only say i am ecstatic about the fact that i will never need to call on your alleged lawyering skills.


Yup you calling me would be possible because you're either psychic or my real name is Special Ed. Good luck. Although like I have previously mentioned already. I have no problem meeting up in real life to discuss my credentials and embarrassing a few people. As opposed to posting them online. Everyone keeps making these excuses not to meet me in person, because they know the Internet is an extremely poor way to judge people.

If I were to judge you over forum posts, as you have mine. I would think that you have the personality of a cardboard box. As well I could also say i am ecstatic about the fact that I would never have to sit through one of your lectures. All of which I'm sure everyone is either lulled into a coma or playing on their laptop. Maybe scribbling or doodling on their notepad. But it's another way(other than CDC) that you work so diligently to extend your self imposed mental superiority. But thats not entirely true is it?

So its a good thing I don't judge people over forum posts on a casual hockey site, such as you right? To me it's more a waste of time and a little casual entertainment. Not that im insulting you for taking the time to post useful information. I just choose not to, although i admittedly spent a little more time here to address you. And the posts I see have very little representation of the real life people posting them. In my experience everyone I have met after speaking to online, was far different that I had originally thought.

So maybe, just maybe. I would actually sit through one of your lectures. Even though now I'm sure I wouldn't. Who knows?

Edited by Special Ed, 09 August 2012 - 02:39 PM.

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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#127 Special Ed

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 02:11 PM

And by the way, Special Ed, you're not really a lawyer, are you? You can stop trying to troll us now.


If you're going to accuse me of a troll please quote the post you refer to? As far as I can tell there was a reply to one of my original posts by a known and self admitted forum agitator. And I responded in defence. In every post I have been truthful and have not lied one single time here. Should you choose not to believe this it really makes no difference to me. But if you have been reading my posts you could see that care very little about how I'm portrayed on CDC. As it means nothing once I close this page. Why should I lie?

Edited by Special Ed, 09 August 2012 - 02:23 PM.

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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#128 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 02:42 PM

Yup you calling me would be possible because you're either psychic or my real name is Special Ed. Good luck finding me in real life. Although like I have previously mentioned already. I have no problem meeting up in real life to discuss my credentials and embarrassing a few people. As opposed to posting them online. Everyone keeps making these excuses not to meet me in person, because they know the Internet is an extremely poor way to judge people.

If I were to judge you over meaningless forum posts, as you have mine. I would think that you have the personality of a cardboard box. As well I could also say i am ecstatic about the fact that I would never have to sit through one of your lectures. All of which I'm sure everyone is either lulled into a coma or playing on their laptop. Maybe scribbling or doodling on their notepad. But it's another way(other than CDC) that you work so diligently to extend your self imposed mental superiority. But thats not entirely true is it?

So its a good thing I don't judge people over forum posts on a casual hockey site, such as you right? To me it's more a waste of time and a little casual entertainment. Not that im insulting you for taking the time to post useful information. I just choose not to, although i admittedly spent a little more time here to address you. And the posts I see have very little representation of the real life people posting them. In my experience everyone I have met after speaking to online, was far more different that I had originally thought.

So maybe, just maybe. I would actually sit through one of your lectures. Even though now I'm sure I wouldn't. Who knows?


Ed i respect your reply ,you have not resorted to to turn this into a slanging match, though your indecisiveness cracks me up, maybe , wouldn't, who knows , you never know just how you look through other people's eyes .
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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#129 Special Ed

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 03:00 PM

Ed i respect your reply ,you have not resorted to to turn this into a slanging match, though your indecisiveness cracks me up, maybe , wouldn't, who knows , you never know just how you look through other people's eyes .


Yeah a bit indecisive indeed. Ah well.
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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#130 Canuckerbird

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 04:50 PM

If you're going to accuse me of a troll please quote the post you refer to? As far as I can tell there was a reply to one of my original posts by a known and self admitted forum agitator. And I responded in defence. In every post I have been truthful and have not lied one single time here. Should you choose not to believe this it really makes no difference to me. But if you have been reading my posts you could see that care very little about how I'm portrayed on CDC. As it means nothing once I close this page. Why should I lie?

Because your lies would mean nothing once you close this page.

If you want to keep purporting yourself to be a lawyer, at least try to sound like one, or apply logic and reasoning as a lawyer would. Or perhaps just tell us what law school you went to, and what year you were called to the bar. No personal information need be divulged.

Better yet, you can answer this simple question: is capital punishment unconstitutional? Why?
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My friend asked me if I wanted a frozen banana. I said "No. But I do want a normal banana later, so...ya."- The Late Mitch Hedberg

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#131 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 02:13 AM

Canada and The Death Penalty Posted Image

The Death Penalty:
How it relates to Canada and Canadians



Canadians under sentence of death...
Posted Image
Ronald Smith
Canadian Citizen on Death Row, Montana

On November 1, 2007 Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day announced the reversal of Canada's long standing policy by the
Conservative Harper Government to no longer advocate for clemency on behalf of Canadian's sentenced to death in the U.S.

On April 8, 2009 Justice Robert Barnes of the Federal Court of Canada condemned Prime Minister Harper and other senior officials for arbitrarily stitching together a revamped stand on clemency that reversed long-standing policy, effectively abandoning Mr. Smith to be executed. Judge Barnes said that fundamental fairness dictates that Canada move quickly to exert its diplomatic influence to stave off Mr. Smith's impending execution and pave the way for his possible transfer to a prison in Canada.

Despite the courts ruling, the Harper government has done nothing to provide support besides a condescending
letter from the Minister of Foreign Affairs John Baird addressing Mr. Smith's final clemency board hearing.

The Governor of Montana will soon make a decision on the Board's recommendation that
Mr. Smith not be granted clemency at this time. An ACLU Lawsuit on the constitutionality
of Montana's lethal injection protocols to be heard in fall 2012 is the only remaining
legal appeal that can prevent Mr. Smith's execution from going ahead immediately.

Posted Image
Robert Bolden

Canadian Citizen on Death Row - Terre Haute, Indiana
Robern Bolden has been on death row since 2006 and was not a legal US citizen.
Canada only recently became aware of his case through his legal team in 2010.
A lawyer for the Death Penalty Litigation Clinic in Kansas City, says
"records show the U.S. government has always known Bolden was Canadian and its
failure to notify Canada violated Bolden's rights under the Vienna Convention."



Posted Image
Hamid Ghassemi-Shall
Canadian Citizen Sentenced to Death in Iran
"Canada is gravely concerned by indications that the execution of Mr. Ghassemi-Shall may be
carried out imminently, Canada urgently appeals to the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran
to grant clemency to Mr. Ghassemi-Shall on compassionate and humanitarian grounds."
Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird and Consular Affairs Minister Diane Ablonczy
Posted Image
Saeed Malekpour
Canadian Resident Sentenced to Death in Iran
Saeed Malekpour, a Canadian resident who is a freelance website
developer and programmer was arrested for “internet offenses”
in October 2008 by Iran and sentenced to death in December 2010

Posted Image
Mohamed Kohail
Canadian Citizen imprisoned in Saudi Arabia
Death Sentenced Overturned, Awaiting Retrial
Mohamed Kohail has been imprisoned in Saudi Arabia on a murder charge since 2007.
Initially sentenced to beheading by sword before Saudi Arabia's Supreme Court
overturned the death sentence in 2010. Mohamed Kohail has recently suffered
serious health problems after 5 years in prison, still awaiting his retrial.
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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#132 Fudd

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 03:50 AM

Man, this is just me but if I was innocent, got a life sentence and couldn't do anything more about it, I'd rather take the lethal injections.
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#133 JLumme

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 07:48 AM

Man, this is just me but if I was innocent, got a life sentence and couldn't do anything more about it, I'd rather take the lethal injections.


I think you would think differently if it actually came down to it.

http://en.wikipedia..../David_Milgaard

Edited by JLumme, 10 August 2012 - 07:49 AM.

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#134 Slaytanic Wehrmacht

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 09:35 AM

Ed i respect your reply ,you have not resorted to to turn this into a slanging match, though your indecisiveness cracks me up, maybe , wouldn't, who knows , you never know just how you look through other people's eyes .


"I don't mind the sun sometimes, the images it shows...i can taste you on my lips and smell you in my clothes...cinnamon and sugary and softly spoken lies...you never know just how you look through other people's eyes..."

Butthole Surfers, FTW ;)
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#135 Sharpshooter

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 10:55 AM

Man, this is just me but if I was innocent, got a life sentence and couldn't do anything more about it, I'd rather take the lethal injections.





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