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Pastor tries to commit suicide after being convicted as a pedophile


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#61 Tearloch7

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 10:37 AM

I guess I could go find where the old bastard is buried and dance on his grave first...


I have always despised Oliver Cromwell, so when I visited Westminster Abbey some years ago, I found myself alone at his memorial gravestone .. I did not dance .. I did not celebrate .. I merely trickled upon his "resting" place and have felt much better ever since .. mind you, I am easily placated .. B)

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#62 debluvscanucks

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 10:45 AM

while I obviously don't condone continuing the cycle of abuse and there is no excuse for this kind of weakness........does anyone here consider that he, himself, is probably a survivor of hard core sexual abuse?

He should go to jail, no doubt, and pay his penance, but he does deserve some consideration that he probably went through some pretty horrble experiences of his own.


By the time you hit adulthood and in this day and age of awareness and information, no excuse. There is plenty of help available and he should have sought some out if that was the case. He had enough of a presence of mind to know that he wanted to end things before they got unbearable (with the pill gulp), should have used that same reasoning to seek out help.

I'd be more inclined to agree with you if his acts didn't appear to be premeditated (with the lure of false promises) - but it shows that he thought about this rather than just acted on impulse. So, no - should have used that thought process to determine that this was wrong and reached out for some help instead. Too easy to hide behind "reasons" these days - time to get back to the focus being on the victim, not the perpetrator. And, in cases where victims grow up, it becomes a matter of accountability. In the case where there is a child victim and an adult - my empathy steers toward the child who may not be equipped to handle and take charge of the situation. Adults generally should be able to identify problems and then take the necessary steps to address them. Sounds cold and I know it's difficult - but there is too much information out there regarding the "cycle of abuse" to deny and ignore it.

And, after reading all the comments, I commend those with the strength/courage to reveal that they, themselves, have been victim to this horrible cycle of abuse and to work through it. With that, I still find it hard to let adults off the hook for calculated abuse of others. Empathy is a tough one if the person suffering chooses to deal with their pain through inflicting it on others. I understand why/how it happens (and worked in the field for a time), but everyone also has the responsibility as an adult to at least try to address things that are creating turmoil for them.

Years ago it was different and things were swept under rugs and kept in closets - today it is completely acceptable (as demonstrated here) to free yourself by sharing your experience and, in that, receiving the necessary help. Those who don't really get little empathy from me.

Edited by debluvscanucks, 11 August 2012 - 11:11 AM.
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#63 Tearloch7

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 10:58 AM

Since there is no apparent "cure" for the "disease", what should Societies "options" be with people who sexually abuse children? .. all my "cures" are fatal ones ..

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#64 Slaytanic Wehrmacht

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 11:06 AM

Since there is no apparent "cure" for the "disease", what should Societies "options" be with people who sexually abuse children? .. all my "cures" are fatal ones ..


Hanging's too good for 'em...Burning's too good for 'em...they should be torn into tiny pieces...and buried ALIVE. :mad:
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#65 stawns

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 01:40 PM

By the time you hit adulthood and in this day and age of awareness and information, no excuse. There is plenty of help available and he should have sought some out if that was the case. He had enough of a presence of mind to know that he wanted to end things before they got unbearable (with the pill gulp), should have used that same reasoning to seek out help.

I'd be more inclined to agree with you if his acts didn't appear to be premeditated (with the lure of false promises) - but it shows that he thought about this rather than just acted on impulse. So, no - should have used that thought process to determine that this was wrong and reached out for some help instead. Too easy to hide behind "reasons" these days - time to get back to the focus being on the victim, not the perpetrator. And, in cases where victims grow up, it becomes a matter of accountability. In the case where there is a child victim and an adult - my empathy steers toward the child who may not be equipped to handle and take charge of the situation. Adults generally should be able to identify problems and then take the necessary steps to address them. Sounds cold and I know it's difficult - but there is too much information out there regarding the "cycle of abuse" to deny and ignore it.

And, after reading all the comments, I commend those with the strength/courage to reveal that they, themselves, have been victim to this horrible cycle of abuse and to work through it. With that, I still find it hard to let adults off the hook for calculated abuse of others. Empathy is a tough one if the person suffering chooses to deal with their pain through inflicting it on others. I understand why/how it happens (and worked in the field for a time), but everyone also has the responsibility as an adult to at least try to address things that are creating turmoil for them.

Years ago it was different and things were swept under rugs and kept in closets - today it is completely acceptable (as demonstrated here) to free yourself by sharing your experience and, in that, receiving the necessary help. Those who don't really get little empathy from me.


No one said anything about letting anyone off the hook. He should be punished and he should go to jail, just like everyone else.......there is no excue for weakness and continuing the cycle of abuse, but abusers are made, not born, and I just think that is something to take in consideration when looking at this case.

#66 Red Light Racicot

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 02:55 PM

I am a survivor of years of it and I would rather the person who did it get help rather than punished, yes.


I dont agree with this at all. Protecting kids should be the priority, so the guy belongs in prison. Too bad? Poor soul? Whatever.

Theres no excuse for giving a pedo another opportunity to continue his ways. Not only will he be given another chance to destroy a kids life, but you are perpetuating the problem needlessly because the victim may do the same when he becomes an adult.

Edited by Red Light Racicot, 11 August 2012 - 02:57 PM.


#67 stawns

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 03:56 PM

I dont agree with this at all. Protecting kids should be the priority, so the guy belongs in prison. Too bad? Poor soul? Whatever.

Theres no excuse for giving a pedo another opportunity to continue his ways. Not only will he be given another chance to destroy a kids life, but you are perpetuating the problem needlessly because the victim may do the same when he becomes an adult.


I should have made that more clear........I'm not saying there shouldn't be consequences........absolutely there should be, I just meant that the focus of his/her incarceration should focus on rehab, not just chucking him into jail and hoping punishment does the trick.

I can see why you took it that way though, I wasn't very clear.

#68 Mr. Ambien

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 04:14 PM

Not a surprise, pastors preach from the pulpit about morality, ignoring human nature in sexuality, nature doesn't give a damn about morality or their ignoramus religious credo.. unsurprisingly they make heinous choices as a result. There aren't many in the world who can function with such rules and why should they unless they are simply asexual. Hopefully one day people will stop listening to pastors and start listening to their body which knows more about what they want and need than a pastor does.

Edited by zaibatsu, 11 August 2012 - 04:14 PM.


#69 pianoman13

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 07:08 PM

Whatever happened to the "Christian" faction on these boards?? .. surely mercy and forgiveness should at least be postulated .. no?


What do you mean by that? Obviously mercy and forgiveness are taught, but that doesn't that someone who is Christian should think he shouldn't go to jail.... In fact they may want him going to jail more than others because he is not a very good example for other Christians.

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#70 Tearloch7

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 07:31 PM

What do you mean by that? Obviously mercy and forgiveness are taught, but that doesn't that someone who is Christian should think he shouldn't go to jail.... In fact they may want him going to jail more than others because he is not a very good example for other Christians.


Are you speaking as a "Christian" or just taking my comment out of context? .. :)

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#71 Slaytanic Wehrmacht

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 07:59 PM

What do you mean by that? Obviously mercy and forgiveness are taught, but that doesn't that someone who is Christian should think he shouldn't go to jail.... In fact they may want him going to jail more than others because he is not a very good example for other Christians.


In that case, just throw this guy in with an innumerable group of "christians" who are a bad example for other "christians"...like Pat Robertson, Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Bakker, the aptly named Oral Roberts, Jerry Falwell, etcetera, etcetera...if my choice is between spending eternity with pieces of work like these "men" and a great number of the christian contingency on this board, and eternity in hell...Elevator going down...please...the music will be a lot better there anyway.
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#72 nucklehead

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 10:00 PM

<p>

I don't think it says anything in the bible about pedophilia.. worshiping false idols, yes.. he must have forgotten to put that one in.

Well I'm no expert but this verse could be construed as a warning.

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

I'm sure there are others.
biggerabacus_zps5cae10b6.jpg

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#73 pianoman13

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 02:24 AM

Are you speaking as a "Christian" or just taking my comment out of context? .. :)

Well yes I am speaking as a Christian, I don't know if that is something different than the 'Christian' you were referring to. I may have misunderstood what you were saying. It seemed like you were saying that Christians would come to defend him, I was just saying that I don't think so. I certainly think he should go to jail for a very long time.

But maybe that wasn't what you were saying

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#74 Jester13

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 01:37 PM

By the time you hit adulthood and in this day and age of awareness and information, no excuse. There is plenty of help available and he should have sought some out if that was the case. He had enough of a presence of mind to know that he wanted to end things before they got unbearable (with the pill gulp), should have used that same reasoning to seek out help.

I'd be more inclined to agree with you if his acts didn't appear to be premeditated (with the lure of false promises) - but it shows that he thought about this rather than just acted on impulse. So, no - should have used that thought process to determine that this was wrong and reached out for some help instead. Too easy to hide behind "reasons" these days - time to get back to the focus being on the victim, not the perpetrator. And, in cases where victims grow up, it becomes a matter of accountability. In the case where there is a child victim and an adult - my empathy steers toward the child who may not be equipped to handle and take charge of the situation. Adults generally should be able to identify problems and then take the necessary steps to address them. Sounds cold and I know it's difficult - but there is too much information out there regarding the "cycle of abuse" to deny and ignore it.

And, after reading all the comments, I commend those with the strength/courage to reveal that they, themselves, have been victim to this horrible cycle of abuse and to work through it. With that, I still find it hard to let adults off the hook for calculated abuse of others. Empathy is a tough one if the person suffering chooses to deal with their pain through inflicting it on others. I understand why/how it happens (and worked in the field for a time), but everyone also has the responsibility as an adult to at least try to address things that are creating turmoil for them.

Years ago it was different and things were swept under rugs and kept in closets - today it is completely acceptable (as demonstrated here) to free yourself by sharing your experience and, in that, receiving the necessary help. Those who don't really get little empathy from me.


I hear what you are saying, however, it is very easy to look from the outside and say that he, being at an adult age, should have had the adult mind in seeking help for himself... the problem is that (again this is all "if" he himself was actually abused) when someone is abused as say a ten year old, they grow up with essentially a ten year old mind, thus, he would hypothetically never be able to make the adult decision of seeking help.

Now I get what the poster you were replying to was saying. There is no condoning this type of act EVER. I believe what the poster was trying to say, correct me please if I am wrong, is that the entire situation is sad and can deserve empathy for everyone involved. Yes the pedo should undoubtedly be held responsible, but he should also be given some sort of counseling to possibly ease some of his pain and mental destruction... we are all human beings with problems, only some of us have such problems which result in horrible acts such as this one.

I also commend posters in this thread who are courageous enough to divulge their sensitive information of the abuse they have unfortunately experienced growing up. I would like to ad that the best way to deal with it is to identify with it. Accept that it happened to you, never hide from it, if it can ever come up in conversation with friends or family never refrain from letting those people know what you have experienced. Telling people in a forum is very helpful, but please don't be afraid to tell people in person too. By identifying with it you are accepting that it happened to you and by telling people about it you are essentially making a difference (in a small way but at least in a way) in stopping the cycle of abuse. Good can come out of it. Experiencing abuse first hand allows you to have the strongest form of empathy out there and quite possibly, if ever chosen, can offer words of advice and support to others who have also experienced it and are trying to deal with it. I was addicted to drugs for a long time and the main thing that helped me never use again is never shying away from revealing that part of me because it is a part of who I am, I'm pretty sure that I have helped others with addiction since... at least I sure hope so:)

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#75 Bure fan

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 02:02 PM

^ great post.
I know most of you guys are atheist and I respect you guys for what you are. I am however Catholic and it's definetly sad and disgusting to hear that these Priests and Pastors do such horrid things. I am truly ashamed to hear this. And I applaud those who have the courage to come forward with your expierences.

#10 Pavel Bure #96


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#76 Tearloch7

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 02:18 PM

Well yes I am speaking as a Christian, I don't know if that is something different than the 'Christian' you were referring to. I may have misunderstood what you were saying. It seemed like you were saying that Christians would come to defend him, I was just saying that I don't think so. I certainly think he should go to jail for a very long time.

But maybe that wasn't what you were saying


I was hoping that a "true" Christian would step forward and echo what Christ would say about such a circumstance .. without forgiveness their is no hope for this world, nor ones "immortal" soul .. to break this mindless cycle of abuse, we must change our approach .. because what Society is doing now is not improving the situation .. rather, we seem to perpetuate and even exacerbate the problem ..

"To Thine Own Self Be True"

 

"Always tell the Truth. That way, you don’t have to remember what you said"  ~ Mark Twain ~
 





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