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#1 Super19

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 07:56 PM

Not much media attention on this, but let this be a thread to post news, pictures, videos or just your thoughts on the situation in Burma.

"According to the unofficial reports, more than 20,000 Muslims have been killed, tortured and displaced by the extremist Buddhists in Burma’s Rakhine province, the worst sectarian killing in this part of the world over the years. The violence had killed 29 people in a day and displaced more than 30,000, said Htein Lin, secretary of the Ministry for Border Affairs. "

http://pakobserver.n...s.asp?id=164926

My thoughts go out to the Muslims and Rohingya's who are being persecuted in Burma.

Edited by Super19, 10 August 2012 - 08:04 PM.

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#2 Super19

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 08:00 PM


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#3 Nucks fan555555

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 09:18 PM

Why have i never heard of any of this?
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#4 Jägermeister

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 09:19 PM

I have never heard of Buddhist Extremists.
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#5 Kass9

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 09:26 PM

Why have i never heard of any of this?


Welcome to a world where news is reported by choice. Also a world where a shooting of 6-14 people make bigger news than 20,000 murders.

#6 VICanucksfan5551

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 09:33 PM

Welcome to a world where news is reported by choice. Also a world where a shooting of 6-14 people make bigger news than 20,000 murders.

It's 20,000 killed, injured, or displaced. There have been about 100 deaths, both Muslims and Buddhists among those.

Edited by VICanucksfan5551, 10 August 2012 - 09:34 PM.

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#7 Sharpshooter

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 10:05 PM

Not much media attention on this, but let this be a thread to post news, pictures, videos or just your thoughts on the situation in Burma.

"According to the unofficial reports, more than 20,000 Muslims have been killed, tortured and displaced by the extremist Buddhists in Burma’s Rakhine province, the worst sectarian killing in this part of the world over the years. The violence had killed 29 people in a day and displaced more than 30,000, said Htein Lin, secretary of the Ministry for Border Affairs. "

http://pakobserver.n...s.asp?id=164926

My thoughts go out to the Muslims and Rohingya's who are being persecuted in Burma.


You know, that highlighted part off the bat struck me as odd.... Unofficial reports?

So I thought i'd look at some news information for myself.

Here's what I found:

Pakistan's extremists whip up frenzy over Burma's Muslims

The exaggerated version of truth about violence in Myanmar propagated by religious groups in Pakistan to recruit and fund their own agendas.

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Pakistanis are mounting protests online and in the streets of cities like Lahore and Peshawar over the ill-treatment of Muslims in Myanmar, a situation that Islamist groups here are distorting to raise money and potentially win recruits.

The international community has raised concerns about human rights abuses against Muslim Rohingyas in Myanmar. Clashes in June between Rohingyas and their Buddhist neighbors, the Rakhine, left 78 dead, according to the Myanmar government. A new Human Rights Watch report calls the number "grossly underestimated" and charges that security forces failed to protect Rohingyas, and in some cases opened fire on them.

But on the streets of Pakistan, the rhetoric runs much hotter with protesters claiming "thousands" of Rohingyas are being slaughtered in western Myanmar (also known as Burma). Online, meanwhile, a series of doctored and misidentified photographs are circulating widely in Pakistani social media and beyond that purport to show violence against Rohingyas.

Investigations by social media watchdogs, and the respected Pakistani newspaper Express Tribune, have proven that most of these claims are exaggerated or entirely false.

For example, one photo posted on a Facebook page originating from Pakistan show Buddhists dressed in their traditional red robes standing in the middle of two rows of dead bodies. The caption reads: "Bodies of Muslims killed by Buddhists." In reality, this picture is from an earthquake incident in China in 2010, where Tibetan monks came to help with the rescue efforts.

Islamist groups are exploiting the whipped up sentiments in Pakistan to raise money, ostensibly for the Rohingyas, at a time when political parties are also building up campaign coffers in anticipation of upcoming national elections. One militant Islamist group, the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan, even threatened the Myanmar government, saying it will avenge the blood of Muslims being killed in Myanmar.

Shahzad Ahmad, the Pakistan country director for the global online activism group called Bytes for All, says stories of Muslim victimization around the world are exaggerated in Pakistan by Islamist groups on the Internet.

“They use such campaigns not only to fund themselves but also to gain more political ground and recruit people for their cause. Our research shows that there are many fake photographs being used to propagate [stories of] atrocities against Muslims on many of the Facebook pages which originate from Pakistan,” says Mr. Ahmad.

Hundreds of pages in support of the Rohingya have appeared on the Internet over the past few months, he says.

“While there is no denying there are human rights violations in Myanmar against Muslims, such exaggerated online campaigns may attract those who want to promote terror and collaborate with extremist groups which operate openly in Pakistan,” adds Ahmad.

Among the groups involved in stirring the activism are Jamat-ud-Dawa, Jamat-e-Islami and Jamiat-e-Ulema Islam, three Islamist groups which hold significant street power in the country.

Jamat-e-Islami and Jamiat-e-Ulema Islam are political parties with a strong presence in rural areas of Pakistan. They believe in a conservative Islamic ideology and propagate the same in their political vision. Jamat-ud-Dawa, which is alleged to be the political arm of the Islamist militia group Lashkar-e-Toiba, is a charity organization banned internationally and is under strict watch in Pakistan as it has been accused of being involved in the 2008 Mumbai attacks, an allegation it denies.

In a conversation with Ayub Munir, the head of foreign affairs at Jamat-e-Islami, one of the oldest Islamist parties in Pakistan, Mr. Munir repeatedly referred to the situation in Myanmar as a genocide of Muslims. “Our biggest concern is the mass killings of Muslims there. This genocide should immediately stop,” says Munir.

Like others, Jamat-e-Islami has announced they are collecting charity for the affected Rohingya community.

“We have opened a bank account, and we have received immense response,” Munir says.

But, as of yet, he does not know how they will be sending this help to Myanmar. “No one can access that area. So we have been unable to send anything. But we plan to talk to the United Nations to help us send food, medicine, and tents,” the Jamat-e-Islami representative adds.

According to him, Muslims have been pushed out of their homes and are living in the jungle, and therefore they need immediate shelter. “We have some workers on the Bangladesh side, and we have asked them to reach out to the Rohingya community,” he claims.

The recent TTP threat to carry out attacks in Myanmar is even more logistically unlikely. Analysts in Pakistan say the aim of the message is more to raise their global brand and attract recruits.

An intelligence official working on counter-terrorism, who is not authorized to speak to the media, says such issues are raised by extremists to gain popularity. “This gets them in the goods books of the Pakistani masses,” the official added. He further said that he has come across evidence where groups in Pakistan doing social welfare work in the country have been involved in funding international "jihad," as he liked to refer to it.

But the romance of "ummah," or the unity of the global Muslim community, has been historically pervasive among South Asian Muslims, says Raza Rumi, a noted columnist.

"There have been instances in our history when funds for Islamic causes have been raised even in the early 20th century when a movement to save the Turkic Caliphate was launched in undivided India," Rumi added.

Fund raising however has acquired a new dimension given the spread of political Islam in this region since the 1980s. Most Islamist organizations have been involved in cross-continental transfers to support various causes.

"On the issue of Burma there is a concerted campaign in place now which is collecting funds without a clear ideas as to how these funds reach the persecuted minority in Myanmar," said Rumi. In fact, one major area of concern is that Pakistan's weak enforcement of rules, which in theory allow the government to restrict banned or controversial groups from raising funds, allows such groups to operate and "raise funds with impunity," Rumi adds.

"This is a cause of concern for many rational Pakistanis who want more effective controls on extremist outfits." opines Rumi.

http://www.csmonitor...Burma-s-Muslims


Edited by Sharpshooter, 10 August 2012 - 10:12 PM.

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#8 Sharpshooter

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 10:10 PM

Me thinks this thread is an attempt to make muslims appear as the victims at the hands of other religions, since they're often portrayed as the protagonists so often.

A cheap attempt at victimhood in my opinion.

It's understandable though. Islam's taken a beating on CDC as of late, and I think S19 wanted to counter it with this thread.

I'm surprised he thought he could post 'unofficial reports' here and not think we'd question it.

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#9 nucklehead

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 10:34 PM

Buddhist extremists. That's got to be a first.
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#10 لني

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 10:36 PM

Not much media attention on this, but let this be a thread to post news, pictures, videos or just your thoughts on the situation in Burma.

"According to the unofficial reports, more than 20,000 Muslims have been killed, tortured and displaced by the extremist Buddhists in Burma’s Rakhine province, the worst sectarian killing in this part of the world over the years. The violence had killed 29 people in a day and displaced more than 30,000, said Htein Lin, secretary of the Ministry for Border Affairs. "

http://pakobserver.n...s.asp?id=164926

My thoughts go out to the Muslims and Rohingya's who are being persecuted in Burma.


Lol the comments were a great read. Not surprising since most people in pakistan have zero clue about whats going outside their own country and everything turns into "boo hoo poor muslims get a bad name" or "kaffirs must die".

Not to mention their ignorance towards the bangladeshis who despise the pakistanis.

The whole "you are muslim ergo you are my brother" is such a crock.

Which brings me to the point that based on the ethnic tribal makeup of this particular part of the world chances are its more complicated than simply muslim vs buddhist. One commenter noted this in the comments section.

Unfortunate and sad that people have to engage in violence of this nature with each other.
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It is not my intent to get in circular arguments with anybody. The reason i have avoided saying anything specific is because i know you or someone else will attempt to find an alternate explanation to my points which i intern will have to defend. I see no point in getting involved with the circular argument that is already well under way in this thread. I simply intended to voice my opinion on the subject. In the end either you accept the possibility of corruption and conspiracy or you don't.

Also i find your comments to be very childish. Does taking what i say out of context, paraphrasing and misquoting it make you feel good about yourself? Grow up.


Logic at its finest.

#11 لني

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 10:37 PM

I have never heard of Buddhist Extremists.


Extemist come in every colour.
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It is not my intent to get in circular arguments with anybody. The reason i have avoided saying anything specific is because i know you or someone else will attempt to find an alternate explanation to my points which i intern will have to defend. I see no point in getting involved with the circular argument that is already well under way in this thread. I simply intended to voice my opinion on the subject. In the end either you accept the possibility of corruption and conspiracy or you don't.

Also i find your comments to be very childish. Does taking what i say out of context, paraphrasing and misquoting it make you feel good about yourself? Grow up.


Logic at its finest.

#12 Super19

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 10:48 PM

Me thinks this thread is an attempt to make muslims appear as the victims at the hands of other religions, since they're often portrayed as the protagonists so often.

A cheap attempt at victimhood in my opinion.

It's understandable though. Islam's taken a beating on CDC as of late, and I think S19 wanted to counter it with this thread.

I'm surprised he thought he could post 'unofficial reports' here and not think we'd question it.

Keep on bringing in your stance then Sharpie, it's hard to get information on what's going on in Burma when reporting and coverage is so poor. Some of the 'islamic social media' had been giving out these reports and this is where I initially got word of what's happening in Burma - admittedly it's probably not the most accurate source. Though I have seen snippets of Burma catching World News headlines in the dailies around here. The facts are that Burma had issued a state of emergency back in June, human rights are being violated, and it seems as if the minority Rohingyas and Muslims are being persecuted.

Amnesty has a couple of articles as to what's going on though I haven't read them all.
http://www.amnesty.o.../region/myanmar


As for the rest of your post, CDC has barely put a beating on Islam - you must not stroll other niches of the web where the islam hate is rampant. Also, just because I made that one mistake of playing the victim card doesn't mean I'm doing it again. I had other oppurtunites to do so in recent times but I didn't - and I won't even bother mentioning what they could have been. I know there is a situation in Burma that's being under reported so I've made this a discussion for it where your thoughts and stance are welcome. Thanks for pointing out some of the inconsistencies.

Edited by Super19, 10 August 2012 - 10:55 PM.

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#13 لني

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 10:50 PM

You know, that highlighted part off the bat struck me as odd.... Unofficial reports?

So I thought i'd look at some news information for myself.

Here's what I found:


I missed this post before i posted but yes this is a big issue.

The problem is that pakistanis tend to be "well educated" much like indians, as a result of the education system the brits left behind.

Sadly their whole world view is coloured by their hatred of India. Since India is "not muslim" and pakistan is then they tend to see everything as such.

They get zero serious education or discourse on world events as that wouldnt fit with the mold of pakistan as the perpetual victim of history.

So in the case of Burma its automatically muslim vs buddhist. Not even a pause to consider ethnic issues etc

They also have a totally warped view on what happened with bangladesh the former east pakistan. They think bangladeshis are muslim ergo brother ergo the same. They dont acknowledge the treatment of bangladeshis by their own (specifically punjabi paks).



With east pak/bangla they again see themselves as victims. Its everyone elses fault (ie indias) that bangla revolted. Never the fact that some ethnically different dudes rocked up to them and started treating them like crap.

Theres good reason why pakistan is in the top ten of failed states and trending upwards on the failed state index.
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It is not my intent to get in circular arguments with anybody. The reason i have avoided saying anything specific is because i know you or someone else will attempt to find an alternate explanation to my points which i intern will have to defend. I see no point in getting involved with the circular argument that is already well under way in this thread. I simply intended to voice my opinion on the subject. In the end either you accept the possibility of corruption and conspiracy or you don't.

Also i find your comments to be very childish. Does taking what i say out of context, paraphrasing and misquoting it make you feel good about yourself? Grow up.


Logic at its finest.

#14 Sharpshooter

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 11:05 PM

Keep on bringing in your stance then Sharpie, it's hard to get information on what's going on in Burma when reporting and coverage is so poor. Some of the 'islamic social media' had been giving out these reports and this is where I initially got word of what's happening in Burma - admittedly it's probably not the most accurate source. Though I have seen snippets of Burma catching World News headlines in the dailies around here. The facts are that Burma had issued a state of emergency back in June, human rights are being violated, and it seems as if the minority Rohingyas and Muslims are being persecuted.

Amnesty has a couple of articles as to what's going on though I haven't read them all.
http://www.amnesty.o.../region/myanmar


As for the rest of your post, CDC has barely put a beating on Islam - you must not stroll other niches of the web where the islam hate is rampant. Also, just because I made that one mistake of playing the victim card doesn't mean I'm doing it again. I had other oppurtunites to do so in recent times but I didn't - and I won't even bother mentioning what they could have been. I know there is a situation in Burma that's being under reported so I've made this a discussion for it where your thoughts and stance are welcome. Thanks for pointing out some of the inconsistencies.


I have no doubt there are human rights abuses taking place in the part of the world. However, I'm extremely skeptical about your sources and your source's sources.

The article I posted says that Pakistani Islamist groups are raising money off this 'news' that they helped perpetuate AND they don't have any way to get the money to the people they're raising it for apparently.

That reeks of fraud.

I'm sure there are muslims dying.....i'm sure there are buddhists dying.....however, i'm not sure that it has anything to do with religion, even though it's being painted as such by one certain religion's followers in Pakistan.

The problem is, that you're so beholden to anything 'islam or muslim' that you like the people who are naively donating money to these Pakistani groups, are immune to what's true and what's not. All you know is which 'team' you're on and that's all that matters to you.

I wouldn't doubt it at all, if you actually believed the article you read, or were given to read, as the absolute wholesale truth.

It's sad that there are so many under-educated muslim youth like yourself who show no sign of critical thought or critical thinking skills when faced with such religious tinged malarkey.

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#15 Sharpshooter

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 11:07 PM

I missed this post before i posted but yes this is a big issue.

The problem is that pakistanis tend to be "well educated" much like indians, as a result of the education system the brits left behind.

Sadly their whole world view is coloured by their hatred of India. Since India is "not muslim" and pakistan is then they tend to see everything as such.

They get zero serious education or discourse on world events as that wouldnt fit with the mold of pakistan as the perpetual victim of history.

So in the case of Burma its automatically muslim vs buddhist. Not even a pause to consider ethnic issues etc

They also have a totally warped view on what happened with bangladesh the former east pakistan. They think bangladeshis are muslim ergo brother ergo the same. They dont acknowledge the treatment of bangladeshis by their own (specifically punjabi paks).

With east pak/bangla they again see themselves as victims. Its everyone elses fault (ie indias) that bangla revolted. Never the fact that some ethnically different dudes rocked up to them and started treating them like crap.

Theres good reason why pakistan is in the top ten of failed states and trending upwards on the failed state index.


No worries, I have plently to be skeptical about when I see 'unofficial reports' coming out of Pakistan.....or 'official' ones for that matter.

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#16 VICanucksfan5551

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 11:14 PM

Keep on bringing in your stance then Sharpie, it's hard to get information on what's going on in Burma when reporting and coverage is so poor. Some of the 'islamic social media' had been giving out these reports and this is where I initially got word of what's happening in Burma - admittedly it's probably not the most accurate source. Though I have seen snippets of Burma catching World News headlines in the dailies around here. The facts are that Burma had issued a state of emergency back in June, human rights are being violated, and it seems as if the minority Rohingyas and Muslims are being persecuted.

Amnesty has a couple of articles as to what's going on though I haven't read them all.
http://www.amnesty.o.../region/myanmar


As for the rest of your post, CDC has barely put a beating on Islam - you must not stroll other niches of the web where the islam hate is rampant. Also, just because I made that one mistake of playing the victim card doesn't mean I'm doing it again. I had other oppurtunites to do so in recent times but I didn't - and I won't even bother mentioning what they could have been. I know there is a situation in Burma that's being under reported so I've made this a discussion for it where your thoughts and stance are welcome. Thanks for pointing out some of the inconsistencies.

As someone who has been reading a lot about Islam recently, I can attest to that. Generally you can pick out the bigots from people giving honest critiques pretty easily, as the bigoted opinions tend to have an agenda against Muslim immigration and try to portray Muslims as plotting to take over the world, or some bull like that. Of course, there are plenty of Muslims online who dish the bigotry right back.
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#17 Sharpshooter

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 11:19 PM

Your 'unofficial sources' say:

"According to the unofficial reports, more than 20,000 Muslims have been killed, tortured and displaced by the extremist Buddhists in Burma’s Rakhine province, the worst sectarian killing in this part of the world over the years. The violence had killed 29 people in a day and displaced more than 30,000, said Htein Lin, secretary of the Ministry for Border Affairs. "

http://pakobserver.n...s.asp?id=164926


Myanmar's Human Rights Commission says:

Amnesty International has also received credible reports of other human rights abuses against Rohingyas and other Rakhine Muslims– including physical abuse, rape, destruction of property, and unlawful killings – carried out by both Rakhine Buddhists and security forces. The authorities should stop these acts and prevent others from occurring. On 3 June, a large group of local Rakhine Buddhists killed 10 Muslims in Taung Gouk township in Rakhine State, who were returning by bus to their homes in Yangon.

Myanmar’s National Human Rights Commission said on 11 July that at least 78 people have been killed since the violence began, but unofficial estimates exceed 100.

http://www.amnesty.o...king-2012-07-19



Burma: Sectarian Violence Not About Race or Religion

Burmese President Thein Sein says the recent deadly communal violence between Buddhists and Muslims in Burma's western Rakhine state "has nothing to do with race or religion."

The president made his comments Thursday while hosting Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu, who is in the country to offer aid for the tens of thousands who have been displaced in the conflict. President Thein Sein says the unrest was ignited by the brutal murder of a girl and the desire for revenge against those who committed the crime.

Sectarian violence between ethnic Rohingya Muslims and Rakhine Buddhists has killed dozens since late May, according to official figures. But some rights groups and media reports suggest the figure may be higher.

President Thein Sein dismissed such speculation in comments carried Friday by the state-controlled New Light of Myanmar, saying he was "disheartened by the hairsplitting of the media." He insisted that only 77 people - 31 Rakhine and 46 Rohingya - have died.

Before leaving for Burma, Foreign Minister Davutoglu said he had received "conflicting information" regarding casualty figures in Rakhine state, telling reporters he has spoken with religious leaders who say thousands have died.

The violence broke out in late May after three Muslim men were accused of raping and murdering a young Buddhist woman and 10 Muslims were killed in an apparent revenge attack.

The issue has prompted a wave of criticism by Muslim-majority nations, some of whom view the conflict as a case of religious persecution against the Rohingya. The Saudi-based Organization for Islamic Cooperation (OIC) has also urged a probe into the violence.

Rights groups have also called for Burma to do more to protect the Rohingya, most of whom are denied citizenship. Human Rights Watch said in a recent report that Burmese security forces have committed killings, rape, and mass arrests against the group in the aftermath of the sectarian violence.

Burma has denied the accusations, saying its security forces acted with restraint after moving quickly to put an end to the riots. It says it is working to provide relief to the 60,000 people left homeless from the conflict.

President Thein Sein on Thursday welcomed the $50 million aid donation by Turkey. He also said he would welcome a visit by the OIC leaders so they can "witness the reality" in Rakhine.

The state has seen a heavy police presence since June, when a state of emergency rule was declared to end the violence. Some rights say the conflict threatens to put a damper on the recent political and economic reforms carried out by Burma's nominally civilian government.

http://www.voanews.c...on/1483768.html


Edited by Sharpshooter, 10 August 2012 - 11:22 PM.

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#18 Super19

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 11:25 PM

An Indonesian group calling itself "People's Care for Rohingya" has been protesting in front of the Myanmar's embassy in the capital Jakarta against the violence and discrimination suffered by the Muslim Rohingya minority in Myanmar.
Thursday's demonstration attracted protesters carrying posters saying "stop violence" and chanting "God is great".
The protesters urged the Myanmar government to end the bloodshed and sectarian violence against the country's Rohingya population.
The violence between Rohingya and Rakhine Buddhists in Myanmar's western province has been ongoing since June 2011 and resulted in the deaths of 78 people and made tens of thousand homeless.
The protesters theatrically rolled around in fake blood and wrote graffiti on the Myanmar embassy walls.
"The Myanmar government have committed an act of inhumanity," said protester Arya Sandi Yudh.
"The UN also have already stated that Rohingya to be among the most persecuted people in the world," he added.
Many in mainly Buddhist Myanmar consider the Rohingya to be illegal settlers from neighbouring Bangladesh.

Report highlights abuses

They have never been recognised by the Myanmar government as citizens.
The United Nations says about 800,000 Rohingya live in Myanmar.
A recent rights group reports said Myanmar security forces killed, raped or carried out mass arrests of Rohingya Muslims after deadly sectarian riots in the northeast in June
The New York-based Human Rights Watch said aid workers were blocked and in some cases arrested in a government crackdown on the largest group of stateless people in Southeast Asia.
The report came after a week of arson and machete attack by both ethnic Rakhine Buddhists and Rohingyas in Rakhine state.
Based on 57 interviews with Rakhines and Rohingyas, the report sought to shed light on a conflict that exposed deep-rooted communal animosity and put the spotlight on promises by the civilian government in office since 2011 to protect human rights after decades of brutal army rule.
"Burmese security forces failed to protect the Arakan [Rakhine] and Rohingya from each other and then unleashed a campaign of violence and mass round-ups against the Rohingya," said Brad Adams, Asia director at Human Rights Watch.
"The government claims it is committed to ending ethnic strife and abuse, but recent events in Arakan State demonstrate that state-sponsored persecution and discrimination persist."


http://www.aljazeera...1451464281.html

Edited by Super19, 10 August 2012 - 11:28 PM.

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#19 Sharpshooter

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 11:27 PM

^ That AJ artice doesn't seem to be making the case that the persecution is a religious one.

It actually seems to be a much more measured one that the initial offering of tripe in the OP.


Why aren't they out protesting the treatment of the muslim women in Pakistan? Or in Saudi Arabia? Or the way the non-religious are treated in Indonesia??

Edited by Sharpshooter, 10 August 2012 - 11:31 PM.

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#20 Super19

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 11:33 PM

^ That AJ artice doesn't seem to be making the case that the persecution is a religious one.

It actually seems to be a much more measured one that the initial offering of tripe in the OP.

I never made it seem like this was exclusively a religious prosecution did I? I don't think I did, I mentioned the ethnic part of it as much as I did the religious.
That was just the first article I had to post.
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#21 Super19

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 11:36 PM

Myanmar Conflict: Rohingya Muslims Persecuted In Myanmar And Bangladesh

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BANGKOK — They have been called ogres and animals, terrorists and much worse – when their existence is even acknowledged.

Asia's more than 1 million ethnic Rohingya Muslims are considered by rights groups to be among the most persecuted people on Earth. Most live in an anachronistic purgatory without passports, unable to travel freely or call any place home.

In Myanmar, shaken this week by a bloody spasm of violence involving Rohingyas in which dozens of civilians died, they are almost universally despised. The military junta whose half-century of rule ended only last year treated them as foreigners – fueling a profound resentment now reflected in waves of vitriol being posted online.


Read more: http://www.huffingto..._n_1595976.html

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#22 لني

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 11:37 PM

As someone who has been reading a lot about Islam recently, I can attest to that. Generally you can pick out the bigots from people giving honest critiques pretty easily, as the bigoted opinions tend to have an agenda against Muslim immigration and try to portray Muslims as plotting to take over the world, or some bull like that. Of course, there are plenty of Muslims online who dish the bigotry right back.


Some muslims are definitely planning on plotting to re establish what many muslims believe to be their rightful (ignoring the fact than many if not all lands were taken "by the sword") lands. The caliphate.


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It is not my intent to get in circular arguments with anybody. The reason i have avoided saying anything specific is because i know you or someone else will attempt to find an alternate explanation to my points which i intern will have to defend. I see no point in getting involved with the circular argument that is already well under way in this thread. I simply intended to voice my opinion on the subject. In the end either you accept the possibility of corruption and conspiracy or you don't.

Also i find your comments to be very childish. Does taking what i say out of context, paraphrasing and misquoting it make you feel good about yourself? Grow up.


Logic at its finest.

#23 لني

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 11:40 PM

^ That AJ artice doesn't seem to be making the case that the persecution is a religious one.

It actually seems to be a much more measured one that the initial offering of tripe in the OP.


Why aren't they out protesting the treatment of the muslim women in Pakistan? Or in Saudi Arabia? Or the way the non-religious are treated in Indonesia??


Many are unaware these stateless people also exist in the middle east. Namely the bidoon.
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It is not my intent to get in circular arguments with anybody. The reason i have avoided saying anything specific is because i know you or someone else will attempt to find an alternate explanation to my points which i intern will have to defend. I see no point in getting involved with the circular argument that is already well under way in this thread. I simply intended to voice my opinion on the subject. In the end either you accept the possibility of corruption and conspiracy or you don't.

Also i find your comments to be very childish. Does taking what i say out of context, paraphrasing and misquoting it make you feel good about yourself? Grow up.


Logic at its finest.

#24 VICanucksfan5551

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 11:41 PM

Some muslims are definitely planning on plotting to re establish what many muslims believe to be their rightful (ignoring the fact than many if not all lands were taken "by the sword") lands. The caliphate.

From what I've seen, that's a fringe opinion, and hardly the coordinated effort some right wing groups make it out to be.
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#25 لني

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 11:51 PM

From what I've seen, that's a fringe opinion, and hardly the coordinated effort some right wing groups make it out to be.


It not a coordinated effort as much as right wing white-power groups are not coordinated. But no one denies they are not some sort of a threat.

Its uncoordinated because as far as im aware no state takes this as an offical line.

Those who are willing and able to act on it as a minority but the belief in it is not.

In fact if im not mistaken the muslim brotherhood had that as one of their "goals".

The idea of the ummah is a strong one. That somehow someone in indonesia has as much in common "brotherhood" as someone from pakistan or algeria.

Would be like saying a christian in philipines has much in common "brotherhood" as an italian.

Edited by لني, 10 August 2012 - 11:55 PM.

Sent from my iPhone Canucks App

It is not my intent to get in circular arguments with anybody. The reason i have avoided saying anything specific is because i know you or someone else will attempt to find an alternate explanation to my points which i intern will have to defend. I see no point in getting involved with the circular argument that is already well under way in this thread. I simply intended to voice my opinion on the subject. In the end either you accept the possibility of corruption and conspiracy or you don't.

Also i find your comments to be very childish. Does taking what i say out of context, paraphrasing and misquoting it make you feel good about yourself? Grow up.


Logic at its finest.

#26 VICanucksfan5551

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 12:01 AM

It not a coordinated effort as much as right wing white-power groups are not coordinated. But no one denies they are not some sort of a threat.

In fact if im not mistaken the muslim brotherhood had that as one of their "goals".

The idea of the ummah is a strong one. That somehow someone in indonesia has as much in common "brotherhood" as someone from pakistan or algeria.

Would be like saying a christian in philipines has much in common "brotherhood" as an italian.

I think white power groups are probably a good analogy. They're also a group with a dangerous ideology and a potential to cause harm, but hardly representative of the population of a whole.

I find the idea of a united ummah to be a myth as well. There's a wide spectrum of belief and culture across the Muslim world, just as there is for every other major religion.
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#27 Sharpshooter

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 12:06 AM

From what I've seen, that's a fringe opinion, and hardly the coordinated effort some right wing groups make it out to be.


I'm a far left liberal and even I can't deny that islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, and that the birthrate of muslims in Europe versus non-muslims is higher. I don't have any evidence that there's coordination underway, however. All we can go by are the immigration and birth-rate numbers.

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#28 Super19

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 12:12 AM

I think white power groups are probably a good analogy. They're also a group with a dangerous ideology and a potential to cause harm, but hardly representative of the population of a whole.

I find the idea of a united ummah to be a myth as well. There's a wide spectrum of belief and culture across the Muslim world, just as there is for every other major religion.

Or rather, your perception of it is wrong. We love one another for the sake of Allah - that's the brotherhood. Not our cultures and not our personalities. Hajj would be a great example, and there is a sea of beautiful accounts relating to the 'brotherhood' evident.
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#29 VICanucksfan5551

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 12:13 AM

I'm a far left liberal and even I can't deny that islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, and that the birthrate of muslims in Europe versus non-muslims is higher. I don't have any evidence that there's coordination underway, however. All we can go by are the immigration and birth-rate numbers.

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High birth rates driving an increase in population in third world countries is hardly a positive for the Muslim world, or anything to be worried about as far as "world domination" goes. Countries in poor economic shape usually tend to have high birth rates, regardless of religion. As the Muslim world continues to modernize, that number will continue to drop.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezVk1ahRF78

Edit: apparently I misread the graph. Immigration to Europe is a product of the high birth rates in predominantly Muslim countries, though, so my point still stands.

Edited by VICanucksfan5551, 11 August 2012 - 12:20 AM.

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#30 VICanucksfan5551

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 12:17 AM

Or rather, your perception of it is wrong. We love one another for the sake of Allah - that's the brotherhood. Not our cultures and not our personalities. Hajj would be a great example, and there is a sea of beautiful accounts relating to the 'brotherhood' evident.

That's the idea, but there's a ton of sectarian violence, both historical and modern day, which doesn't exactly speak to widespread love of one another for the sake of Allah. Not that infighting is unique to Islam, but it's far from immune to it.
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