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Romney announces VP pick


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#91 Tearloch7

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 03:42 PM

And how is vying for universal healthcare "selfish"? I'd love to read your explanation.


The one intelligent thing you have said .. the rest is posturing .. America is an "empire" imploding in on itself .. the "rats" are abandoning the "ship of state" .. you return to Canada to take advantage of "our" health system .. all the rest of us feel privileged to "help you out" .. we kept our Medicare system running just so people like you could came back and take advantage of it, not that you have necessarily earned it .. so look to yourself and thank all of us who have helped keep this country fiscally solvent so you can "feed off the Socialist tit ..

Parasite just may be the truest word that SW used .. being insensitive, and then being proud of it, is just what we need in today's Society .. it is prevalent south of the border .. not quite so acceptable up here ..

"To Thine Own Self Be True"

 

"Always tell the Truth. That way, you don’t have to remember what you said"  ~ Mark Twain ~
 


#92 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 03:42 PM

And how is vying for universal healthcare "selfish"? I'd love to read your explanation.


how are you vying for universal healthcare ? are you actually writing to the person who represents you in congress ? do you give time and or money to others , i.e volunteer in your community ?

The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#93 Buttock

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 04:44 PM

:lol:

Which facet of getting a budget under control and saving a country's economy from imminent collapse, which would severely impact their vulnerable members, never mind everyone else, is selfish? It's nice you have all the touchy feely stuff down but reality doesn't care about that.

If you want me to play into your posting style, how about -- men are going to be unheard of as most of the men nowadays have turned into females.

It's clear Obama and Biden don't care about the future of the US, neither does Romney, but Romney's VP choice has somewhat the right mindset, so if Romney croaks, someone who would actually do something about the economy is now in charge. That seems the most plausible choice as the populace at large is too afraid of voting 3rd party or for someone who would do something (Ron Paul) more than sound bytes of "change" while being the third term of George Bush.


A note on this "gendered" way of looking at politics. This is a game that conservatives and republicans have been playing for the last 40 or so years. The democrats, liberals, left, etc. are "feminine" for being "soft" on crime and wanting to take care of people, while the right-wingers are macho, manly masculine men willing to make hard choices and have a foreign policy primarily based on strength, etc. The right has had a fair amount of success with this model, playing off the latent sexism of most men who still believe, deep down, that men generally take more realistic views of the world, and that our culture has become too "feminized," too weak. These are men who would still use feminine as a pejorative, since in their worldview masculinity is superior to femininity - at least as far as running something, like a country, business, or a family, is concerned. Viewed through this lens, values like compassion, tolerance, and forebearance become weaknesses. It's sexist. Women are not less rational, less intelligent or less capable of leading than men are. This game plays into the hands of those who would keep cultural values back in the stone age, and also those seeking an effective way to mobilize (especially white) men - especially working-class white men - to vote against their own economic interests. The other main way they do this is by stirring up religious attitudes.

As for Paul Ryan his credentials as a fiscal conservative are an absolute joke. He voted for the Bush tax cuts, voted for two unpaid wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, voted for every Republican initiative regardless of the cost. He became a deficit hawk, like so many Republicans, when Obama became president. He is nothing but a party hack. He is however a competent politician and articulate debater.

There is no reason Americans cannot have decent social programs. Don't get me wrong, everything Zaibatsu says about Obama is accurate, but Romney/Ryan would be an absolute disaster. Never in the history of the world has any society successfully gotten out of a recession or depression with austerity.

#94 Tearloch7

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 05:20 PM

Very well said Buttock .. ^ ^ ^ .. and true .. +1

"To Thine Own Self Be True"

 

"Always tell the Truth. That way, you don’t have to remember what you said"  ~ Mark Twain ~
 


#95 Mr. Ambien

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 05:51 PM

The one intelligent thing you have said .. the rest is posturing .. America is an "empire" imploding in on itself .. the "rats" are abandoning the "ship of state" .. you return to Canada to take advantage of "our" health system .. all the rest of us feel privileged to "help you out" .. we kept our Medicare system running just so people like you could came back and take advantage of it, not that you have necessarily earned it .. so look to yourself and thank all of us who have helped keep this country fiscally solvent so you can "feed off the Socialist tit ..

Parasite just may be the truest word that SW used .. being insensitive, and then being proud of it, is just what we need in today's Society .. it is prevalent south of the border .. not quite so acceptable up here ..

You aren't helping me out when I likely pay more in taxes than you do, especially paying for an entire family when I doubt you even come close to even paying for yourself. Good try though at the "sensitive" troll. :lol:

how are you vying for universal healthcare ? are you actually writing to the person who represents you in congress ? do you give time and or money to others , i.e volunteer in your community ?

What have you done? Long ago I wrote Boxer, Feinstein, Pelosi, attented SF council meetings to see if they could expand county coverage but San Franciscans already pay out the ass just to live there hence why they lost population. After a while of trying I gave up thinking Americans would turn things around and join the rest of the world, thankfully already being Canadian it was a simple matter of deciding where we preferred to live. Also, we didn't just get healthcare the second we dropped back into Canada, we had to wait almost six months on private insurance.

A note on this "gendered" way of looking at politics. This is a game that conservatives and republicans have been playing for the last 40 or so years. The democrats, liberals, left, etc. are "feminine" for being "soft" on crime and wanting to take care of people, while the right-wingers are macho, manly masculine men willing to make hard choices and have a foreign policy primarily based on strength, etc. The right has had a fair amount of success with this model, playing off the latent sexism of most men who still believe, deep down, that men generally take more realistic views of the world, and that our culture has become too "feminized," too weak. These are men who would still use feminine as a pejorative, since in their worldview masculinity is superior to femininity - at least as far as running something, like a country, business, or a family, is concerned. Viewed through this lens, values like compassion, tolerance, and forebearance become weaknesses. It's sexist. Women are not less rational, less intelligent or less capable of leading than men are. This game plays into the hands of those who would keep cultural values back in the stone age, and also those seeking an effective way to mobilize (especially white) men - especially working-class white men - to vote against their own economic interests. The other main way they do this is by stirring up religious attitudes.

As for Paul Ryan his credentials as a fiscal conservative are an absolute joke. He voted for the Bush tax cuts, voted for two unpaid wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, voted for every Republican initiative regardless of the cost. He became a deficit hawk, like so many Republicans, when Obama became president. He is nothing but a party hack. He is however a competent politician and articulate debater.

There is no reason Americans cannot have decent social programs. Don't get me wrong, everything Zaibatsu says about Obama is accurate, but Romney/Ryan would be an absolute disaster. Never in the history of the world has any society successfully gotten out of a recession or depression with austerity.

I can see why you would chalk up Ryan to following the waves of the tea party and I wouldn't doubt that, but I'm more interested in what politicians do now and more recent history than how much George Bush neocon years which seem to be withering from the Republican party (and shifting to the Democrats). It's less and less of a reality of Ron Paul (or even Gary Johnson) making it as President than Ryan as VP, but even Republican candidates are starting to realize this pork is becoming less and less justifiable which is why they are getting on the bandwagon. I haven't seen a Democrat even begin to tackle the deficit by any margin since Clinton. Since the deficit and economy are directly related and of the utmost important issue, I look to that first rather than the typical, pointless, and distracting character evaluations so prevalent today.

#96 Tearloch7

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 06:01 PM

You aren't helping me out when I likely pay more in taxes than you do, especially paying for an entire family when I doubt you even come close to even paying for yourself. Good try though at the "sensitive" troll. :lol:


What have you done? Long ago I wrote Boxer, Feinstein, Pelosi, attented SF council meetings to see if they could expand county coverage but San Franciscans already pay out the ass just to live there hence why they lost population. After a while of trying I gave up thinking Americans would turn things around and join the rest of the world, thankfully already being Canadian it was a simple matter of deciding where we preferred to live. Also, we didn't just get healthcare the second we dropped back into Canada, we had to wait almost six months on private insurance.


I can see why you would chalk up Ryan to following the waves of the tea party and I wouldn't doubt that, but I'm more interested in what politicians do now and more recent history than how much George Bush neocon years which seem to be withering from the Republican party (and shifting to the Democrats). It's less and less of a reality of Ron Paul (or even Gary Johnson) making it as President than Ryan as VP, but even Republican candidates are starting to realize this pork is becoming less and less justifiable which is why they are getting on the bandwagon. I haven't seen a Democrat even begin to tackle the deficit by any margin since Clinton. Since the deficit and economy are directly related and of the utmost important issue, I look to that first rather than the typical, pointless, and distracting character evaluations so prevalent today.


I have underwear as old as you, and just about a wretched .. I have owned my own Company for 30 years and never needed to move to the States to try and be someone .. bugger off .. you are talking out of your wee arse now ..

"To Thine Own Self Be True"

 

"Always tell the Truth. That way, you don’t have to remember what you said"  ~ Mark Twain ~
 


#97 Mr. Ambien

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 06:03 PM

I have underwear as old as you, and just about a wretched .. I have owned my own Company for 30 years and never needed to move to the States to try and be someone .. bugger off .. you are talking out of your wee arse now ..

I moved to the states to finish school and wound up getting married after.

Whatever I'm supposedly trying to "be", you conveniently left that part out. :lol:

I'd remind you where you talk from but I doubt you'd even grasp it.. well, mentally.

Is this where conversations go from a few trolls with an inability to discuss a topic? It's entertaining.

Edited by zaibatsu, 12 August 2012 - 06:06 PM.


#98 Slaytanic Wehrmacht

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 06:49 PM

It is appalling at how much bigotry and sheer ignorance is expressed on these forums. One guy likening the Holy Bible to some fairy tale, even though freedom of religion is protected under our constitution. Another guy is comparing the newest GOP VP nominee to the one from 4 years ago as if it's some kind of carbon copy. Really? What experience did Obama have by the way, to be qualified for president? We never hear about these things. Personally I am delighted of this selection. I can not wait for the Ryan Biden debate later in the year.


Last I checked, freedom of speech and freedom of expression were also protected under our Constitution. I stand by any "likening" I have done of the bible to a fairy tale. No one can arrest me for expressing myself thusly...not yet, anyway.
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#99 Tearloch7

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 06:59 PM

I moved to the states to finish school and wound up getting married after.

Whatever I'm supposedly trying to "be", you conveniently left that part out. :lol:

I'd remind you where you talk from but I doubt you'd even grasp it.. well, mentally.

Is this where conversations go from a few trolls with an inability to discuss a topic? It's entertaining.


My 4 children, 11 grandchildren and 7 brothers and sisters are glad you moved north to sponge off us ..

Edited by Tearloch7, 12 August 2012 - 06:59 PM.

"To Thine Own Self Be True"

 

"Always tell the Truth. That way, you don’t have to remember what you said"  ~ Mark Twain ~
 


#100 Mr. Ambien

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 07:15 PM

My 4 children, 11 grandchildren and 7 brothers and sisters are glad you moved north to sponge off us ..

You are trying far too hard to troll me. :lol:

#101 Tearloch7

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 07:25 PM

You are trying far too hard to troll me. :lol:


Bye .. :frantic:

"To Thine Own Self Be True"

 

"Always tell the Truth. That way, you don’t have to remember what you said"  ~ Mark Twain ~
 


#102 Ghostsof1915

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 07:40 PM

It must be an honour similar to being appointed co-captain of the Titanic.


Post of the day!
GO CANUCKS GO!
"The Canucks did not lose in 1994. They just ran out of time.." Barry MacDonald Team1040

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#103 Ghostsof1915

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 07:46 PM


GO CANUCKS GO!
"The Canucks did not lose in 1994. They just ran out of time.." Barry MacDonald Team1040

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#104 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 01:54 AM

You aren't helping me out when I likely pay more in taxes than you do, especially paying for an entire family when I doubt you even come close to even paying for yourself. Good try though at the "sensitive" troll. :lol:


What have you done? Long ago I wrote Boxer, Feinstein, Pelosi, attented SF council meetings to see if they could expand county coverage but San Franciscans already pay out the ass just to live there hence why they lost population. After a while of trying I gave up thinking Americans would turn things around and join the rest of the world, thankfully already being Canadian it was a simple matter of deciding where we preferred to live. Also, we didn't just get healthcare the second we dropped back into Canada, we had to wait almost six months on private insurance.


I can see why you would chalk up Ryan to following the waves of the tea party and I wouldn't doubt that, but I'm more interested in what politicians do now and more recent history than how much George Bush neocon years which seem to be withering from the Republican party (and shifting to the Democrats). It's less and less of a reality of Ron Paul (or even Gary Johnson) making it as President than Ryan as VP, but even Republican candidates are starting to realize this pork is becoming less and less justifiable which is why they are getting on the bandwagon. I haven't seen a Democrat even begin to tackle the deficit by any margin since Clinton. Since the deficit and economy are directly related and of the utmost important issue, I look to that first rather than the typical, pointless, and distracting character evaluations so prevalent today.


well for starters i do not have to write to my member of parliament , for all it's faults my country has a good healthcare system that has treated me well , that is one of the benefits of paying tax .
I have volunteered in my community , one example of this is a couple of rescue's which i particpated in at Mt.hotham , both times a man who was lost in the mountains was rescued by a mix of voulnteers and ski-patrollers .
I have also worked with handicapped skiers on a volunteer basis , and it was a very rewarding experience .
so you attempted to change your situation , you wrote a couple of letters , went to a couple of meetings and then gave up , that tells me a great deal about what sort of person you are .
when i was trying to change a particular thing in my world it invovled a 5 year battle with the ARC at Mt.hotham ,and the right i was fighting for still exists to this day .
you are an example of the , "it's all about me" type of person ,your lack of compassion and empathy for others is quite evident in your posts , you are part of the problem rather than being part of the solution .

The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#105 Mr. Ambien

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 03:13 AM

well for starters i do not have to write to my member of parliament , for all it's faults my country has a good healthcare system that has treated me well , that is one of the benefits of paying tax .
I have volunteered in my community , one example of this is a couple of rescue's which i particpated in at Mt.hotham , both times a man who was lost in the mountains was rescued by a mix of voulnteers and ski-patrollers .
I have also worked with handicapped skiers on a volunteer basis , and it was a very rewarding experience .
so you attempted to change your situation , you wrote a couple of letters , went to a couple of meetings and then gave up , that tells me a great deal about what sort of person you are .
when i was trying to change a particular thing in my world it invovled a 5 year battle with the ARC at Mt.hotham ,and the right i was fighting for still exists to this day .
you are an example of the , "it's all about me" type of person ,your lack of compassion and empathy for others is quite evident in your posts , you are part of the problem rather than being part of the solution .

Until I see you sway over 50 million voters to think sensibly your up-one's-pedestal rant and pixel personality profiling doesn't amount to anything beyond overreaching ad hominem and hilarious self-aggrandising.

#106 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 04:08 AM

Until I see you sway over 50 million voters to think sensibly your up-one's-pedestal rant and pixel personality profiling doesn't amount to anything beyond overreaching ad hominem and hilarious self-aggrandising.



you asked what i have done to change things and i replied , so do not come on with the self aggrandising BS .
but that all you ever do when you are confronted with facts you cannnot argue with ,you spew out a bunch of crap . but you are not to blame , one does not blame a dog for it's bad behaviuor , it is the owners responsibilty to train the dog correctly .

The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#107 Mr. Ambien

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 06:03 AM

you asked what i have done to change things and i replied , so do not come on with the self aggrandising BS .
but that all you ever do when you are confronted with facts you cannnot argue with ,you spew out a bunch of crap . but you are not to blame , one does not blame a dog for it's bad behaviuor , it is the owners responsibilty to train the dog correctly .


--------------------------------------------------------------


you asked what i have done to change things and i replied , so do not come on with the self aggrandising BS .
but that all you ever do when you are confronted with facts you cannnot argue with ,you spew out a bunch of crap . but you are not to blame , one does not blame a dog for it's bad behaviuor , it is the owners responsibilty to train the dog correctly .

well for starters i do not have to write to my member of parliament , for all it's faults my country has a good healthcare system that has treated me well , that is one of the benefits of paying tax .
I have volunteered in my community , one example of this is a couple of rescue's which i particpated in at Mt.hotham , both times a man who was lost in the mountains was rescued by a mix of voulnteers and ski-patrollers .
I have also worked with handicapped skiers on a volunteer basis , and it was a very rewarding experience .
so you attempted to change your situation , you wrote a couple of letters , went to a couple of meetings and then gave up , that tells me a great deal about what sort of person you are .
when i was trying to change a particular thing in my world it invovled a 5 year battle with the ARC at Mt.hotham ,and the right i was fighting for still exists to this day .
you are an example of the , "it's all about me" type of person ,your lack of compassion and empathy for others is quite evident in your posts , you are part of the problem rather than being part of the solution .

well for starters i do not have to write to my member of parliament , for all it's faults my country has a good healthcare system that has treated me well , that is one of the benefits of paying tax .
I have volunteered in my community , one example of this is a couple of rescue's which i particpated in at Mt.hotham , both times a man who was lost in the mountains was rescued by a mix of voulnteers and ski-patrollers .
I have also worked with handicapped skiers on a volunteer basis , and it was a very rewarding experience .
so you attempted to change your situation , you wrote a couple of letters , went to a couple of meetings and then gave up , that tells me a great deal about what sort of person you are .
when i was trying to change a particular thing in my world it invovled a 5 year battle with the ARC at Mt.hotham ,and the right i was fighting for still exists to this day .
you are an example of the , "it's all about me" type of person ,your lack of compassion and empathy for others is quite evident in your posts , you are part of the problem rather than being part of the solution .

how are you vying for universal healthcare ? are you actually writing to the person who represents you in congress ? do you give time and or money to others , i.e volunteer in your community ?


/rest my case

Edited by zaibatsu, 13 August 2012 - 06:05 AM.


#108 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 06:10 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------




/rest my case


and what case is that ?

The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#109 Mr. Ambien

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 06:18 AM

and what case is that ?

Let me expand then for the feeble-minded:

#110 Mr. Ambien

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 06:19 AM

you asked what i have done to change things and i replied , so do not come on with the self aggrandising BS .
but that all you ever do when you are confronted with facts you cannnot argue with ,you spew out a bunch of crap . but you are not to blame , one does not blame a dog for it's bad behaviuor , it is the owners responsibilty to train the dog correctly .




Your quotes:

well for starters i do not have to write to my member of parliament , for all it's faults my country has a good healthcare system that has treated me well , that is one of the benefits of paying tax .
I have volunteered in my community , one example of this is a couple of rescue's which i particpated in at Mt.hotham , both times a man who was lost in the mountains was rescued by a mix of voulnteers and ski-patrollers .
I have also worked with handicapped skiers on a volunteer basis , and it was a very rewarding experience .
so you attempted to change your situation , you wrote a couple of letters , went to a couple of meetings and then gave up , that tells me a great deal about what sort of person you are .
when i was trying to change a particular thing in my world it invovled a 5 year battle with the ARC at Mt.hotham ,and the right i was fighting for still exists to this day .
you are an example of the , "it's all about me" type of person ,your lack of compassion and empathy for others is quite evident in your posts , you are part of the problem rather than being part of the solution .

how are you vying for universal healthcare ? are you actually writing to the person who represents you in congress ? do you give time and or money to others , i.e volunteer in your community ?

you mock people who actually care and want to help others , while at the same time you try to validate your selfish atitude , you are the prime example of why the U.S is a stupid , selfish greedy society and people like myself and another poster in this thread have to come along and and help someone in another country when their own system fails them .

what i believe is that we should look after the most vulnerable members in our societies , and i put my money where my mouth is .
i do this because i empathise with others less fortunate than myself , i actually give a f#ck about someone else apart from myself .
you delude yourself into thinking you have an opinion because then you do not have to face the fact that you are a selfish greedy person who thinks only of himself .

and watching this selfish, ignorant self obsessed kid makes me realise why the world is getting to be a really crappy place for so many people .


Edited by zaibatsu, 13 August 2012 - 06:19 AM.


#111 Mr. Ambien

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 06:20 AM

you asked what i have done to change things and i replied , so do not come on with the self aggrandising BS .
but that all you ever do when you are confronted with facts you cannnot argue with ,you spew out a bunch of crap . but you are not to blame , one does not blame a dog for it's bad behaviuor , it is the owners responsibilty to train the dog correctly .




http://www.cbo.gov/publication/21999

Under current law, CBO projects, budget deficits will drop markedly over the next few years—to $1.1 trillion in 2012, $704 billion in 2013, and $533 billion in 2014. Relative to the size of the economy, those deficits represent 7.0 percent of GDP in 2012, 4.3 percent in 2013, and 3.1 percent in 2014. From 2015 through 2021, the deficits in the baseline projections range from 2.9 percent to 3.4 percent of GDP.



$1.327 trillion (enacted)

(already 300 billion dollars off the revised 2013 estimates)

If you religiously want to believe CBO ESTIMATES THEN IT'S YOUR OWN NAIVETY.. oops sorry I got afflicted with your capslock bug.





i will certainly believe what a non partisan agency tells me , rather than listen to the rambling's of a person who has already shown that he does not know WTF is really going on , and seems to have little or no empathy at all for those less fortunate than himself


Translation: I'll ignore the facts presented to me declaring I trust an organisation that has just been proven to be highly erroneous in their figures versus what really gets spent (why religiously quote predictions when they are so far off? the CBO is about as non partisan as the Fed :lol:), and just spend two days insulting a forum member because he's not excessively effeminate like I am while at the same time hypocritically declaring other person "spews crap".

Again.. /rest my case

Let me know when you can stand up on two legs, kiddo. I let you perpetuate the sideshow long enough. :lol:

Edited by zaibatsu, 13 August 2012 - 06:23 AM.


#112 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 06:26 AM

Translation: I'll ignore the facts presented to me declaring I trust an organisation that has just been proven to be highly erroneous in their figures versus what really gets spent, and just spend two days insulting a forum member because he's not excessively effeminate like I am while at the same time hypocritically declaring other person "spews crap".

Again.. /rest my case

Let me know when you can stand up on two legs, kiddo. I let you perpetuate the sideshow long enough.


you ability to think clearly and logically is obviously quite poor , you are the person who has insulted several posters in this thread , and i have never insulted you , merely made a character judgement based upon your posts , to insult someone you have to care and i am completely indifferent to you .
by the way this might be of help to you,
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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#113 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 07:01 AM

Translation: I'll ignore the facts presented to me declaring I trust an organisation that has just been proven to be highly erroneous in their figures versus what really gets spent (why religiously quote predictions when they are so far off? the CBO is about as non partisan as the Fed :lol:), and just spend two days insulting a forum member because he's not excessively effeminate like I am while at the same time hypocritically declaring other person "spews crap".

Again.. /rest my case

Let me know when you can stand up on two legs, kiddo. I let you perpetuate the sideshow long enough. :lol:


CBO deficit reduction estimates

Posted Image

Posted ImageCBO – Deficit reduction under ACA
The 2011 comprehensive CBO estimate projected a net deficit reduction of more than $200 billion during the period 2012–2021.[183][184] CBO estimated in March 2011 that for the 2012–2021 period, the law would result in net receipts of $813 billion, offset by $604 billion in outlays, resulting in a $210 billion reduction in the deficit.[183]
As of the bill's passage into law in 2010, CBO estimated the legislation would reduce the deficit by $143 billion[185] over the first decade, but half of that was due to expected premiums for the C.L.A.S.S. Act, which has since been abandoned.[186] Although the CBO generally does not provide cost estimates beyond the 10-year budget projection period (because of the great degree of uncertainty involved in the data) it decided to do so in this case at the request of lawmakers, and estimated a second decade deficit reduction of $1.2 trillion.[180][187] CBO predicted deficit reduction around a broad range of one-half percent of GDP over the 2020s while cautioning that "a wide range of changes could occur".[188]
CBO also initially stated that the bill would "substantially reduce the growth of Medicare's payment rates for most services; impose an excise tax on insurance plans with relatively high premiums; and make various other changes to the federal tax code, Medicare, Medicaid, and other programs;"[180] A commonly heard criticism of the CBO cost estimates is that CBO was required to exclude from its initial estimates the effects of likely "doc fix" legislation that would increase Medicare payments by more than $200 billion from 2010 to 2019;[189][190][191][192][193] however, the "doc fix" remains a separate piece of legislation.[194] Subject to the same exclusion, the CBO initially estimated the federal government's share of the cost during the first decade at $940 billion, $923 billion of which takes place during the final six years (2014–2019) when the spending kicks in;[195][196] with revenue exceeding spending during these six years.[ wikipedia


YOU CAN MAKE ALL THE BS CLAIMS YOU WANT , "OBAMA CARE " IS EXPECTED TO LOWER THE BUDGET AND IMPROVE HEALTH CARE FOR THE AVERAGE AMERICAN , IN SPITE OF THE "WATERING DOWN " OF THE BILL BY THE REPUBLICANS .

The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#114 debluvscanucks

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 08:03 AM

I let you perpetuate the sideshow long enough.

And, with that, your focus seems less and less about the topic at hand and more at insulting and one up'ing other members in a move to get under their skin.

The warning earlier about insults seems to have been ignored and the feeble minded reference makes that evident.

To save this thread from being further derailed, the (one) member riling up several will be removed for a brief period...upon his/her return, please use the report button if any further personal attacks take place.

It's ok to attack an idea or post, however, when it comes with smiley faces and insults that hint at getting some kind of enjoyment out of upsetting others, it's then crossed over into trolling.

OK folks, last warning for everyone before we shut this one down....

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#115 Slaytanic Wehrmacht

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 08:25 AM

you asked what i have done to change things and i replied , so do not come on with the self aggrandising BS .
but that all you ever do when you are confronted with facts you cannnot argue with ,you spew out a bunch of crap . but you are not to blame , one does not blame a dog for it's bad behaviuor , it is the owners responsibilty to train the dog correctly .


Pavlovian response. Fitting you mentioned the dog. Anyway, as has already been mentioned by a few posters in this thread, this ticket is cancerous for anyone who isn't in the millionaire tax bracket, it's quite obvious to me that the right-wing nutjobs are attempting to buy this election, and now it's up to the "common people" to tell them where they can stick their dirty money and their toxic candidates.
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#116 Drybone

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 12:50 PM

Given I've lived over two decades in the US, am a dual citizen, only moving back to Canada last year, I'm pretty sure I'm well qualified to have an opinion on the subject, even though you wish to impose humorous conditions upon having an opinion so as there is nobody to disagree with you.

Of numerous issues, healthcare was the number one reason we moved back to Canada, anything short of universal is a joke, does not tabulate the actual costs of healthcare and the burden it provides not only upon the working class but taxpayers in general, and perpetuates private healthcare in the US which is far more costly and a worldwide joke. Obamacare is not universal healthcare, not even close. Obamacare is a subsidy to private insurance companies and a heavy cost to taxpayers without a "realized" (in monetary terms) offset, and is another corporatist piece of legislation. It's like socialising auto insurance in Ontario with the current state of anticompetitiveness and price gouging. The sooner Democrats begin to realize Obama is as much a spend thrift war mongering corporatist as much as Bush and Romney were/are (never), the better off they'll be in perhaps finding some other candidate to vote for ( :lol:).

Right now the US cannot afford the expenditures, the expenditures come first, which are realised before these supposed projected revenues the CBO is terrible at projecting come in, so if the revenues don't come in, surprise surprise, another trillion down the crapshoot. Before a single penny more is spent on health care the US needs a system that identifies and reduces the costs of providing healthcare and prescriptions rather than keeping it the way it is now, except mandatory private insurance, and just tossing the egregious bill to taxpayers and businesses. That's not a solution at all. That's making the problem way worse. I feel very sorry for people who still live in the US who are going to be levied with such an astronomical debt and valueless dollar due to voting for and allowing these politicians to get away with what they're doing. Even if Ryan's vision is short sighted to some degree, the best thing the US can do to salvage it's economic future is get it's deficits under control and offset them, tossing Obamacare onto the pile of debt already ridiculous amounts is a terrible idea.


I signed into my account to specifically reply to this post. I was busy reading the apparent 'opinions' of kids living in Canada or otherwise much to my amusement .

Then I run into this post where this guy seems to know exactly what he is talking about and in fact, this is what I see as someone who has lived in both countries and lived under both sets of medical conditions for decades at a time.

I can assure you that the Presidents plan does nothing but force people to buy a private product for profit. This was done due to political will unable to garner a 'public option.

Ahd the last gasp was the medicaid angle but SCOTUS threw it out stating the feds cant force the states to expand their medicaid.

I am a huge proponent of single payer , but the only way to beat the insurance lobby is to do this. Have each state have its own single payer system and those who travel outside their state must purchase private insurance to cover them while in another state.
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#117 Slaytanic Wehrmacht

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 12:52 PM

Edited for content by my conscience.

Edited by Slaytanic Wehrmacht, 13 August 2012 - 03:45 PM.

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#118 Sharpshooter

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 01:08 PM

I signed into my account to specifically reply to this post. I was busy reading the apparent 'opinions' of kids living in Canada or otherwise much to my amusement .

Then I run into this post where this guy seems to know exactly what he is talking about and in fact, this is what I see as someone who has lived in both countries and lived under both sets of medical conditions for decades at a time.

I can assure you that the Presidents plan does nothing but force people to buy a private product for profit. This was done due to political will unable to garner a 'public option.

Ahd the last gasp was the medicaid angle but SCOTUS threw it out stating the feds cant force the states to expand their medicaid.

I am a huge proponent of single payer , but the only way to beat the insurance lobby is to do this. Have each state have its own single payer system and those who travel outside their state must purchase private insurance to cover them while in another state.


You can thank the Republican controlled congress for not having a single payer system. 'ObamaCare' isn't even a Democrat plan....it's a Republican one. This just goes to show you how far right the Republicans have gone, when a healthcare plan first proposed by Bob Dole is called 'Socialism'.

Single payer, I agree, is the only way to go. The way to ensure it remains affordable and consistent across all States, is to have it enacted and mandated federally. State by state is not a good option.

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#119 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 02:58 PM

I signed into my account to specifically reply to this post. I was busy reading the apparent 'opinions' of kids living in Canada or otherwise much to my amusement .

Then I run into this post where this guy seems to know exactly what he is talking about and in fact, this is what I see as someone who has lived in both countries and lived under both sets of medical conditions for decades at a time.

I can assure you that the Presidents plan does nothing but force people to buy a private product for profit. This was done due to political will unable to garner a 'public option.

Ahd the last gasp was the medicaid angle but SCOTUS threw it out stating the feds cant force the states to expand their medicaid.

I am a huge proponent of single payer , but the only way to beat the insurance lobby is to do this. Have each state have its own single payer system and those who travel outside their state must purchase private insurance to cover them while in another state.


I cannot afford health insurance but i have a medicare card , this card enables me to get health care . one of the duties of an australian is to pay tax , and one of the benefits of paying tax is, that if you cannot afford healthcare the tax's you pay enable you to have your health care taken care of by the medicare system .
this is a goverments duty to it's citizens , to look after them , and i must say that even though i have heard some horror stories my interaction with our public health care system has been a good one . i have only the the greatest respect for the doctors and nurse's who have treated me kindly , courteously and professionaly .
maybe america should look at our system , and maybe if you did not invade oil rich countries on the pretext of looking for weapons of mass destruction , and spending trillions in the process , then maybe your government would have the money to implement a proper health care system and no one would be left behind .

The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#120 Slaytanic Wehrmacht

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 02:59 PM

I cannot afford health insurance but i have a medicare card , this card enables me to get health care . one of the duties of an australian is to pay tax , and one of the benefits of paying tax is, that if you cannot afford healthcare the tax's you pay enable you to have your health care taken care of by the medicare system .
this is a goverments duty to it's citizens , to look after them , and i must say that even though i have heard some horror stories my interaction with our public health care system has been a good one . i have only the the greatest respect for the doctors and nurse's who have treated me kindly , courteously and professionaly .
maybe america should look at our system , and maybe if you did not invade oil rich countries on the pretext of looking for weapons of mass destruction , and spending trillions in the process , then maybe your government would have the money to implement a proper health care system and no one would be left behind .


For the first time in my life...I am actually going to say "Amen, brother." ;)
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