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Romney announces VP pick


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#151 Sharpshooter

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 01:09 PM

There's plently of democrats that support the Bush tax cuts and some are signed onto the Americans for tax reform.

They also had more than enough of a majority at the beginning of Obama's term to push through tax increases if they really wanted to.

Saying that it's only the Republicans that fight to avoid tax increases is about as naive as saying it's only the democracts fighting to keep entitlements.

It's not stupidity it's called being reality.

Now, if you say wanted to blame everying on the highly influently lobby group Americans for Tax Reform who will tax anyone who proposes raising taxes to task BIGTIME with attack ads and what not (they will in fact do that as a default for not signing on to their pledge) then you might be onto something.



The couldn't get cloture because they didn't have the 60 votes needed, in a super-majority, to bring the bill forward. They also had to deal with some of the DINO Blue Dogs in the party. The Dems are not as monolithic as the Repubs.

That's the reality
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#152 Slaytanic Wehrmacht

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 01:23 PM

The couldn't get cloture because they didn't have the 60 votes needed, in a super-majority, to bring the bill forward. They also had to deal with some of the DINO Blue Dogs in the party. The Dems are not as monolithic as the Repubs.

That's the reality


excellent use of the term monolithic. :) I would probably have used monochromatic, seeing as how it's in the context of different shades of "democrat blue" quite often...but that works too ;)
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#153 Tystick

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 03:25 PM

No thanks.

We don't need the U.S. to go back to pre-Civil Rights days.


Wtf are you talking about
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#154 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 03:34 PM

The issue is that the US has to cut it's spending on healthcare, not expand them. It needs to cut it's spending on everything. It also needs some serious tax reform.

For all those people that think it's heartless to deny someone's dad their cheap meds just wait and see how they feel after the fiscal cliff gets enacted and 1 MILLION jobs are lost due to defence cuts and a MILLION more are lost from other cuts. Just the decrease in government spending alone are GUARANTEED to put the entire economy into recession.

If people think Obama inherited a hangover they ain't seen nothing yet!

Oh, and even all this isn't even close to stopping the US slide to bankruptcy. There's going to be a LOT bigger problems than dad not having his dementia meds. Much worse.

That's the result of the short term "me first damn the rest of them" thinking that has plagued the US.


I suppose that depends if it happens to be YOUR father . whether you believe it or not , it is a governments {societies} duty to look after it's most vulnerable members and if you pay tax all your life this is one of the benefits you should recieve .
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#155 Sharpshooter

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 03:39 PM

Wtf are you talking about


Learn a little bit more about Paul's policies and what their affects would be.

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#156 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 03:44 PM

Learn a little bit more about Paul's policies and what their affects would be.

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nothin worse than using your sprog as a biilboard.
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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

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That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#157 ronthecivil

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 03:58 PM

I suppose that depends if it happens to be YOUR father . whether you believe it or not , it is a governments {societies} duty to look after it's most vulnerable members and if you pay tax all your life this is one of the benefits you should recieve


If the US doesn't get it's fiscal house in order people will eventually stop lending it money. When that happens the kind of austerity that doesn't mind people starving to death or general anarchy can be it's replacement. If the total amount of benefits given out doesn't match the amount of taxes coming in eventually those benefits will disapear regardless of how much duty their is to provide them.

For a preview of that extreme scene look at what's going on in Greece right now. After a while it doesn't matter how much people protest if you have no money you have no money!
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#158 Slaytanic Wehrmacht

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 04:00 PM

Learn a little bit more about Paul's policies and what their affects would be.

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LOL...agreed...I think there's quite enough inbreeding going on in America currently, thanks though.
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#159 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 04:08 PM

If the US doesn't get it's fiscal house in order people will eventually stop lending it money. When that happens the kind of austerity that doesn't mind people starving to death or general anarchy can be it's replacement. If the total amount of benefits given out doesn't match the amount of taxes coming in eventually those benefits will disapear regardless of how much duty their is to provide them.

For a preview of that extreme scene look at what's going on in Greece right now. After a while it doesn't matter how much people protest if you have no money you have no money!


I would rather have no money than no dad .
there are a lot of other things they can cut the funding for before they cut funding to the health-care system ,my country and yours manage to run efficent health- care systems while not going broke in the process .
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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

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That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#160 Tystick

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 04:36 PM

Learn a little bit more about Paul's policies and what their affects would be.

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I have, and although I don't live in the USA, I really have no idea what you're talking about. Paul is all for civil liberty.

You're honestly telling me you would rather have Obama care? or Romney who is basically mimicking Obama now after being funded by a bunch of companies? That doesn't give off any red flags??

Ron Paul has realistic plans to fix the financial debt crisis by spending less time controlling the middle east and less time fueling for war. Sounds pretty damn good to me.

Edited by Tystick, 14 August 2012 - 04:48 PM.

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#161 Sharpshooter

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 04:44 PM

I have, and I really have no idea what you're talking about. Paul is all for civil liberty.


I don't think you've thought out the 'libertarian' part of his platform all the way through just yet.

'Liberty' sounds great though, eh?
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#162 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 04:52 PM

I don't think you've thought out the 'libertarian' part of his platform all the way through just yet.

'Liberty' sounds great though, eh?


that seems to be the issue with a lot of voters in a lot of countries , they do not think .
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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

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That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#163 key2thecup

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 05:21 PM

lol anyone hear Joe Biden's comments? regarding Romney, "they gonna put ya'll back in chains"
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#164 Tearloch7

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 05:39 PM

lol anyone hear Joe Biden's comments? regarding Romney, "they gonna put ya'll back in chains"


"Chains" is a relative term .. was he speaking to a black audience or folks who need chains on their tires cause the State canna afford to plow the snow off the roads, what with all the tax-breaks for millionaires, and the lack of snow in Washington due to "climate change" .. or did he mean "gold chains", like "bling"? .. "gonna be as rich as a white man in Richmond, son" .. context is everything ..

Let us not ignore the fact that the "MAN" in the US of A would love to bring back slavery .. and if you doubt that, then you are living in a world of denial .. the first steps are breaking the Unions and taking back control of the "productive cycle" .. keep em pregnant and barefoot and willing to do anything to feed the mass of children they are spawning cause they canna afford to do anything but "diddle" .. it is insidious, I tell ya .. B)
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#165 ronthecivil

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 05:40 PM

I would rather have no money than no dad .
there are a lot of other things they can cut the funding for before they cut funding to the health-care system ,my country and yours manage to run efficent health- care systems while not going broke in the process


If the US keeps down it's current path soon enough people in your situation won't have money or their dad. Think shanty town great depression era.

I know it's hard to understand the big picture when it hits you personally but there's going to be a lot of hard choices America (and soon enough Canada we have our own ticking time bomb even if nobody wants to acknowlege it) will have to make or else run the peril of having even harder decisions made for them.

Bankrupt is bankrupt and if people won't lend you money it won't matter how compelling a case you can make for how to spend it if it plain does not exist.

But cheer up! In "good" news the two things people on the left advocate the most (or better stated are hated by the republicans) are an increase in taxes (particularily to the rich) and a big decrease in military spending. Well, as the states goes off the fiscal cliff those will be enacted automatically and unless the Republicans win a super-majority in both houses and the presidentcy the democrats can use the same moves the Republicans used on them to stop any reversal of those policies.

Granted they also have cuts to healthcare built in but keep in mind that even with those tax increases and drastic spending cuts in the cliff the massive deficits of the government would simply be big deficits - there's still a long way to go to getting the books in order and until that is done everything people rely on the government to provide is in jepordy.
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#166 Tystick

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 05:43 PM

I don't think you've thought out the 'libertarian' part of his platform all the way through just yet.

'Liberty' sounds great though, eh?


Explain?

He wants little government control on everything.
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#167 Slaytanic Wehrmacht

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 05:45 PM

I have officially washed my hands of all of this...this government...the lies and the ****ing lying liars who tell them...can all go straight to hell...not pass go...until the entire party system is dismantled...there will never truly be any freedoms in the US....wake up and smell the decomposing roses...
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#168 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 05:50 PM

If the US keeps down it's current path soon enough people in your situation won't have money or their dad. Think shanty town great depression era.

I know it's hard to understand the big picture when it hits you personally but there's going to be a lot of hard choices America (and soon enough Canada we have our own ticking time bomb even if nobody wants to acknowlege it) will have to make or else run the peril of having even harder decisions made for them.

Bankrupt is bankrupt and if people won't lend you money it won't matter how compelling a case you can make for how to spend it if it plain does not exist.

But cheer up! In "good" news the two things people on the left advocate the most (or better stated are hated by the republicans) are an increase in taxes (particularily to the rich) and a big decrease in military spending. Well, as the states goes off the fiscal cliff those will be enacted automatically and unless the Republicans win a super-majority in both houses and the presidentcy the democrats can use the same moves the Republicans used on them to stop any reversal of those policies.

Granted they also have cuts to healthcare built in but keep in mind that even with those tax increases and drastic spending cuts in the cliff the massive deficits of the government would simply be big deficits - there's still a long way to go to getting the books in order and until that is done everything people rely on the government to provide is in jepordy.


My parents who i see most days lived through the depression , dad lived on a couple of potato's a day for periods of time , mum did it slightly better here in australia , so i am personally aware how tough times affect people.
i reiterate that if canada and australia can manage to run reasonably efficent health-care systems , then the largest economy on earth should be able to as well
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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

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That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#169 ronthecivil

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 05:55 PM

I don't think you've thought out the 'libertarian' part of his platform all the way through just yet.

'Liberty' sounds great though, eh?


Actually blowing it all up and starting over both on domestic and foreign policy would be a good first step. Better to do it on purpose in a controlled manner than the current greek method of being forced to because noone will lend you money.
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#170 ronthecivil

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 06:01 PM

My parents who i see most days lived through the depression , dad lived on a couple of potato's a day for periods of time , mum did it slightly better here in australia , so i am personally aware how tough times affect people.
i reiterate that if canada and australia can manage to run reasonably efficent health-care systems , then the largest economy on earth should be able to as well


Our own healthcare system takes 50% of the provincial budget and is currently under a charter challenge due to the increadible wait times. And this is BEFORE the increadible demographic switch towards having many, many more users of the health care system and far less people paying in with all of this being on the heels of Canadians themselves only maintaining their current standard of living through a growing credit bubble (now average 160% debt to income per Canadian) which has Canadians already stretched during a period of record low interest rates.

I wouldn't count on Canada (not sure about Australia but it's safe to say they have many of the same problems - I know they have the debt and demographic ones) being able to support the system in anything that even vaguely resembles it's current form.
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#171 Tearloch7

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 06:02 PM

Actually blowing it all up and starting over both on domestic and foreign policy would be a good first step. Better to do it on purpose in a controlled manner than the current greek method of being forced to because noone will lend you money.


I agree .. but the "special interests" who control North America will not let that happen until they are faced with the "guillotine" ..
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#172 ronthecivil

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 06:07 PM

I agree .. but the "special interests" who control North America will not let that happen until they are faced with the "guillotine" ..


Well the fiscal cliff is not blowing it all up but it's a pretty serious explosion. For example, enjoy the US recession next spring and it's knock on effects world wide.

If you knocked off every special interest in NA there wouldn't be many people left over.
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#173 Mastaj

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 07:07 PM

Our own healthcare system takes 50% of the provincial budget and is currently under a charter challenge due to the increadible wait times. And this is BEFORE the increadible demographic switch towards having many, many more users of the health care system and far less people paying in with all of this being on the heels of Canadians themselves only maintaining their current standard of living through a growing credit bubble (now average 160% debt to income per Canadian) which has Canadians already stretched during a period of record low interest rates.

I wouldn't count on Canada (not sure about Australia but it's safe to say they have many of the same problems - I know they have the debt and demographic ones) being able to support the system in anything that even vaguely resembles it's current form.


Please stop perpetuating this myth. Yes, we have wait times - but not for critical care. And there has been a concerted effort over the past 10 years to reduce wait times for things like knee, hip, and other joint replacements (which is where the majority of the wait time myth comes from).

The US has better wait times for non-critical and elective procedures - but ONLY for those who can afford it. They do not have better wait times for urgent or critical care. For me, I would much rather have our entire population covered for healthcare, than have lower wait times for the rich.

I'm not saying our healthcare system is perfect - far from it. I've worked in healthcare for most of my adult life, so I am acutely aware of the many problems. But I much prefer it to the US, or frankly even the NHS of the UK.

But I digress, this is a bit off topic....
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#174 Tearloch7

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 08:29 PM

Please stop perpetuating this myth. Yes, we have wait times - but not for critical care. And there has been a concerted effort over the past 10 years to reduce wait times for things like knee, hip, and other joint replacements (which is where the majority of the wait time myth comes from).

The US has better wait times for non-critical and elective procedures - but ONLY for those who can afford it. They do not have better wait times for urgent or critical care. For me, I would much rather have our entire population covered for healthcare, than have lower wait times for the rich.

I'm not saying our healthcare system is perfect - far from it. I've worked in healthcare for most of my adult life, so I am acutely aware of the many problems. But I much prefer it to the US, or frankly even the NHS of the UK.

But I digress, this is a bit off topic....

But a hugely important perspective .. thank you for this, and the work you do .. :)
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#175 Aleksandr Pistoletov

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 09:19 AM

The couldn't get cloture because they didn't have the 60 votes needed, in a super-majority, to bring the bill forward. They also had to deal with some of the DINO Blue Dogs in the party. The Dems are not as monolithic as the Repubs.

That's the reality

Republicans never had a supermajority in the Senate yet they got everything they wanted during the Bush years when Republicans controlled Congress as well.

Democrats had a supermajority (60 votes) for only some 4-6 months during Obama's tenure but no surprise accomplished nothing. Surely they could see the writings on the wall that they had a mandate to do their bidding.. and did nothing with it but mainly re-emphasize Bush policies of lower taxes, excessive spending, and a continuation of laughable foreign policy, laughable drug policy, and doing their best to negate individual rights by reiterating how necessary Bush's warrantless wiretaps are.

I don't think you've thought out the 'libertarian' part of his platform all the way through just yet.

'Liberty' sounds great though, eh?

Can you elaborate? I've seen nothing but general statements about Paul that reflect mainly typical two-party talk I expect from Americans.

I signed into my account to specifically reply to this post. I was busy reading the apparent 'opinions' of kids living in Canada or otherwise much to my amusement .

Then I run into this post where this guy seems to know exactly what he is talking about and in fact, this is what I see as someone who has lived in both countries and lived under both sets of medical conditions for decades at a time.

I can assure you that the Presidents plan does nothing but force people to buy a private product for profit. This was done due to political will unable to garner a 'public option.

Ahd the last gasp was the medicaid angle but SCOTUS threw it out stating the feds cant force the states to expand their medicaid.

I am a huge proponent of single payer , but the only way to beat the insurance lobby is to do this. Have each state have its own single payer system and those who travel outside their state must purchase private insurance to cover them while in another state.

Well put. No surprise some of us who have experienced both countries' healthcare system over long periods of time better understand their drawbacks or benefits. For the better of the populace is not one person's sibling or family member, it's a state where the costs of healthcare can be tabulated. Right now the US healthcare system is one run amok where the actual costs can only be estimated, it's well known it's outrageously high.. and because the large number of hospitals in the US that are publicly funded have to take patients who are not insured, the taxpayer foots an even larger burden of high cost to cover for a lack of insurance when uninsured hospital patient, in most cases, cannot pay their egregious bill. This is why Obamacare is a fail, because rather than reducing costs or coming up with a single payer system where one can take taxes and offset the cost, it tosses a pile of debt first to fund the system which is around a trillion dollars, and automatically assumes revenue later. It's really only the CBO that assumes Obamacare can bring revenue but the CBO has been off by large margins (~10-35% in the few years I've looked) when using their fiscal budget projections versus when expenses are paid for the year they projected. All-in-all, this is an ugly mess that isn't in the slightest sense being fixed, but typical of the US government, tossing a nice dressing over a problem and doing their best to put off for the next generation to solve.
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#176 ronthecivil

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 09:41 AM

Please stop perpetuating this myth. Yes, we have wait times - but not for critical care. And there has been a concerted effort over the past 10 years to reduce wait times for things like knee, hip, and other joint replacements (which is where the majority of the wait time myth comes from).

The US has better wait times for non-critical and elective procedures - but ONLY for those who can afford it. They do not have better wait times for urgent or critical care. For me, I would much rather have our entire population covered for healthcare, than have lower wait times for the rich.

I'm not saying our healthcare system is perfect - far from it. I've worked in healthcare for most of my adult life, so I am acutely aware of the many problems. But I much prefer it to the US, or frankly even the NHS of the UK.

But I digress, this is a bit off topic....


I prefer our healthcare system to the US as well but that doesn't mean our's is perfect (aka I agree). However, whether or not we can continue to afford it when it's already taking 50% of our tax dollars even before all the baby boomers retire in a country where we are at an all time low when it comes to being in personal debt is going to be an issue going forward no matter how much people wish it not to be.
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#177 Aleksandr Pistoletov

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 09:46 AM

I prefer our healthcare system to the US as well but that doesn't mean our's is perfect (aka I agree). However, whether or not we can continue to afford it when it's already taking 50% of our tax dollars even before all the baby boomers retire in a country where we are at an all time low when it comes to being in personal debt is going to be an issue going forward no matter how much people wish it not to be.

That's true which is why doctors can't keep fighting for pay hikes when the country goes through recession, when expenses are too high expenses need to cut back -- can't just keep relying on taxing people more or spending one's country into insolvency. Expenses need to normalise with revenues, not vice versa.

Edited by zaibatsu, 15 August 2012 - 09:49 AM.

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#178 Tearloch7

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 10:34 AM

Republicans never had a supermajority in the Senate yet they got everything they wanted during the Bush years when Republicans controlled Congress as well.

Democrats had a supermajority (60 votes) for only some 4-6 months during Obama's tenure but no surprise accomplished nothing. Surely they could see the writings on the wall that they had a mandate to do their bidding.. and did nothing with it but mainly re-emphasize Bush policies of lower taxes, excessive spending, and a continuation of laughable foreign policy, laughable drug policy, and doing their best to negate individual rights by reiterating how necessary Bush's warrantless wiretaps are.


Can you elaborate? I've seen nothing but general statements about Paul that reflect mainly typical two-party talk I expect from Americans.


Well put. No surprise some of us who have experienced both countries' healthcare system over long periods of time better understand their drawbacks or benefits. For the better of the populace is not one person's sibling or family member, it's a state where the costs of healthcare can be tabulated. Right now the US healthcare system is one run amok where the actual costs can only be estimated, it's well known it's outrageously high.. and because the large number of hospitals in the US that are publicly funded have to take patients who are not insured, the taxpayer foots an even larger burden of high cost to cover for a lack of insurance when uninsured hospital patient, in most cases, cannot pay their egregious bill. This is why Obamacare is a fail, because rather than reducing costs or coming up with a single payer system where one can take taxes and offset the cost, it tosses a pile of debt first to fund the system which is around a trillion dollars, and automatically assumes revenue later. It's really only the CBO that assumes Obamacare can bring revenue but the CBO has been off by large margins (~10-35% in the few years I've looked) when using their fiscal budget projections versus when expenses are paid for the year they projected. All-in-all, this is an ugly mess that isn't in the slightest sense being fixed, but typical of the US government, tossing a nice dressing over a problem and doing their best to put off for the next generation to solve.


One word .. "filibuster" ..

fil·i·bus·ter (fPosted ImagelPosted ImagePosted Image-bPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager)
n.
1.
a. The use of obstructionist tactics, especially prolonged speechmaking, for the purpose of delaying legislative action.
b. An instance of the use of this delaying tactic.
2. An adventurer who engages in a private military action in a foreign country.
v. fil·i·bus·tered, fil·i·bus·ter·ing, fil·i·bus·ters
v.intr.
1. To use obstructionist tactics in a legislative body.
2. To take part in a private military action in a foreign country.
v.tr.
To use a filibuster against (a legislative measure, for example).
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#179 Aleksandr Pistoletov

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 10:40 AM

One word .. "filibuster" ..

fil·i·bus·ter (fPosted ImagelPosted ImagePosted Image-bPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager)
n.
1.
a. The use of obstructionist tactics, especially prolonged speechmaking, for the purpose of delaying legislative action.
b. An instance of the use of this delaying tactic.
2. An adventurer who engages in a private military action in a foreign country.
v. fil·i·bus·tered, fil·i·bus·ter·ing, fil·i·bus·ters
v.intr.
1. To use obstructionist tactics in a legislative body.
2. To take part in a private military action in a foreign country.
v.tr.
To use a filibuster against (a legislative measure, for example).

supermajority
Example Sentences


su·per·ma·jor·i·ty
[soo-per-muh-jawr-i-tee, -jor-] majority that must represent some percentage more than asimple majority.

2.
a majority greater than a specified number, as 60%, of thetotal: required to pass certain types of legislation, overridevetos, etc.


Democrats had a supermajority (rendering filibusters useless) for 4-6 months during Obama's term, and nothing was done.

Likewise, Republicans had only a simple majority during Bush's term and had the initiative to get passed virtually anything they wanted.

Obviously Democrats don't know wield a weapon when they're given it, although since Democrats and Republicans are virtually the same, I somehow doubt it would be a good thing even if they did.
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"When Jonah's agent called him and said Quentin Tarantino wanted to put him in a spaghetti western [Django Unchained], Jonah was like, 'You had me at spaghetti.'"

 

"Aziz has been charming audiences and snakes for years. And I guess you’re here tonight because now that Kanye had a real baby he doesn’t need you anymore."

 

 -- Jeff Ross

 

 


#180 Tearloch7

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 10:56 AM

Can you say "Blue Dog"?? .. thought so ..
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