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If Raymond isn't traded...


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#1 King Heffy

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 05:29 PM

Where does he fit in the lineup?

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Kesler-Hansen
Higgins-Lapierre-Kassian
Volpatti-Malhotra-Weise

Ebbet

Which of those wingers does he legitimately deserve to beat out for a spot? Where can he cause the least harm with his falling flat on his arse?

Hansen has outplayed Raymond and deserves a 2nd line opening over him. Higgins is also more deserving of promotion to the 2nd line. Kassian fits better on the third line than Raymond and needs the opportunity to grow his game.

And Raymond would be absolutely terrible on the 4th line.

How would you make the best of a bad situation if we're stuck with him on the opening-day roster?

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Put Gino in the ROH


#2 Flying Man

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 05:32 PM

Hansen isn't a second liner :picard:
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#3 King Heffy

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 05:36 PM

Hansen isn't a second liner :picard:


Because he hasn't been given the opportunity. He played pretty well with the Sedins, and has earned the opportunity to see if he can perform.

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Put Gino in the ROH


#4 Tanev's Smirk

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 05:36 PM

He'll fit in the SEL. Lockout and all...

#5 Grapefruits

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 05:37 PM

pressbox

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#6 ButterBean

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 05:41 PM

I think he should be gone, but I think they'll give him a shot to prove he's worthy to be on our team by giving him 2nd line ice-time while Kesler is out. We'll probably see something like this on opening day.

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Booth - Schroeder - Raymond
Higgins - Lapierre - Hansen
Volpatti - Malhotra - Kassian

#7 John.Tallhouse

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 05:58 PM

Why would we give Kassian Raymond's spot?... I could see Kass earning it, but cut Ray some damn slack people.. we all know what he's givin to this team..
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#8 CanucksFanMike

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 05:58 PM

Raymond could fit if Kassian is not ready for a top six role...

D. Sedin - H. Sedin - A. Burrows
D. Booth - R. Kesler - C. Higgins
M. Raymond - M. Lapierre - J. Hansen
A. Volpatti - M. Malhotra - Z. Kassian
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Credit to -Vintage Canuck-

#9 hockeystar

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 05:58 PM

?? are we bored... raymond will get a spot on the team and if not it means he was traded with lu in a package deal... i wish ballard was included as well
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#10 mabbott

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 06:02 PM

its hard not to play well with the sedins

#11 mabbott

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 06:03 PM

Because he hasn't been given the opportunity. He played pretty well with the Sedins, and has earned the opportunity to see if he can perform.


It's hard not to play well with the Sedin's

#12 StevenStamkos

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 06:03 PM

C'mon guys, stop being mean to Raymond!

He deserves to be on the second line!

...of the Chicago wolves.

Follow me on twitter! @RealStamkos91


#13 King Heffy

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 06:03 PM

its hard not to play well with the sedins


And yet Raymond managed to play very poorly with them.

Edited by Number14, 15 August 2012 - 06:04 PM.

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Put Gino in the ROH


#14 4thLineGrinder

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 06:10 PM

he broke his freeking back, lets at least give him training camp and pre season to show that he is back to 100%.

Raymond is poised to surprise alot of people. He has earned the right to show us what he can do once fully recovered.

you guys just aren't happy unless we have a whipping boy

#15 Canuck_Inferno

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 06:27 PM

?? are we bored... raymond will get a spot on the team and if not it means he was traded with lu in a package deal... i wish ballard was included as well

I'm bored. What a boring off-season. And the chance of a lockout only makes things worse. Sucks to be a hockey fan right now, boring to be a Canucks fan.

#16 John.Tallhouse

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 06:28 PM

I'm bored. What a boring off-season. And the chance of a lockout only makes things worse. Sucks to be a hockey fan right now, boring to be a Canucks fan.

Indeed..
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#17 thehamburglar

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 07:07 PM

Over Kassian. He hasn't proved anything. But knowing our team, that'll be in over Volpatti who will be out for Kassian on 4th.
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#18 Canuck_Inferno

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 07:55 PM

Indeed..
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hahaha.....sigh

#19 PONCHE

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 07:55 PM

And yet Raymond managed to play very poorly with them.


EXCEPTIONALLY different playing styles.

If you honestly think that a player like Volpatti will get a full time spot on this team with Raymond sitting in the pressbox, you have another thing comming.

Raymond is at the very least a very competent 3rd liner. Everyone on these boards is clammoring over trying to improve our third line, you would think that having a solid checker with a top 6 upside would be a good piece to keep.

I understand some of the hate on Raymond, but its become a bit excessive.
People want him to be that top 6 speed demon that we saw flashes of when he scored the 25g and signed the 2.55m contract. I understand that, obviously i would love that too.
But what people are failing to realize is that WORST case scenario we are paying 2.275m(his current contract) for a speedy forward who draws penaties, has the ability to fill in in a top 6 role, has potential to grow into the role, and is currently one of our team's BEST PK'ers.


Oh and did i mention that he broke his back last year?
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#20 King Heffy

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 07:59 PM

has the ability to fill in in a top 6 role,


Very poorly. Better options in Kassian, Higgins, and Hansen.

is currently one of our team's BEST PK'ers.


Besides Kesler, Burrows, Hansen, Lapierre....

Edited by Number14, 15 August 2012 - 08:09 PM.

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Put Gino in the ROH


#21 Canuck_Inferno

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 08:08 PM

"Hey, my name's Raymond
and this is crazy
but I broke my back
cut me slack, maybe"

#22 PONCHE

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 08:15 PM

Very poorly. Better options in Kassian, Higgins, and Hansen.


Besides Kesler, Burrows, Hansen, Lapierre....


To your first point:

I am not saying that there might not be better options. I do find it rather amusing that you've listed Kassian as a better option than Raymond (not really disagreeing, but based on what we've seen of Kassian thusfar.....) And as i mentioned elsewhere in my post Raymond does have the potential to grow.


On your second point:

I dont have the information on hand (perhaps someone else will recall this as well) but it has been pointed out in the past that our PK with Raymond on it is dramatically better than our PK when Raymond is out of the lineup.
Whether you believe that or not, at the very least it still allows us to run 3 sets of forwards on the pk rather than the usual 2 therefore allowing players such as Kesler and Burrows in particular to not be as taxed physically. And since you're the one who feels that everyone is a better option than him on offence, it certainly doesn't hurt to have him on the PK

Edited by PONCHE, 15 August 2012 - 08:18 PM.

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#23 Ryanstorm

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 08:16 PM

Sedin - Sedin - Booth
Burrows - Kesler (Schroder) - Kassian
Volpatti- Malhotra - Hansen
Raymond - Lapierre - Weiss

Got a bit of toughness on each line, and Weiss is on a one way contract so would be a waste to not use him. Volpatti on the 3rd line is iffy, but he is making a come back from injury so maybe replace him with Weiss or Raymond on the 3rd line. GM MG said himself Kassian has potential to make it to 2nd line this year.. Sounds good to me.

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#24 Canuck_Inferno

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 08:18 PM

Hey guys let's play charades...okay

"Hey guys I think what we should maybe is trade for Crosby and Ovechkin because I think maybe they could play really well with the Sedins and Kesler and get lots of goals and win us a cup and stuff wut do u guys think???"

Edited by Canuck_Inferno, 15 August 2012 - 08:19 PM.


#25 King Heffy

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 08:21 PM

To your first point:

I am not saying that there might not be better options. I do find it rather amusing that you've listed Kassian as a better option than Raymond (not really disagreeing, but based on what we've seen of Kassian thusfar.....) And as i mentioned elsewhere in my post Raymond does have the potential to grow.

Kassian has much more room to grow than Raymond, and was much less of a liability with the puck. Considering he's a natural right winger(something we are in short supply of), I'd rather give him a look than someone who's shown they can't do the job.

Sedin - Sedin - Booth
Burrows - Kesler (Schroder) - Kassian
Volpatti- Malhotra - Hansen
Raymond - Lapierre - Weiss

Got a bit of toughness on each line, and Weiss is on a one way contract so would be a waste to not use him. Volpatti on the 3rd line is iffy, but he is making a come back from injury so maybe replace him with Weiss or Raymond on the 3rd line. GM MG said himself Kassian has potential to make it to 2nd line this year.. Sounds good to me.


Which player slots out once Higgins is healthy?

Edited by Number14, 15 August 2012 - 08:22 PM.

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Put Gino in the ROH


#26 Canuck_Inferno

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 08:23 PM

Okay I'm sorry. I think Raymond needs to be given a fair chance this year. I was frustrated with him like a lot of fans were last year but he did break his back so, I think his lack of production is forgivable. It would be great to see him return to his 2009-2010 form, and I think he could still find success playing on a line with Kesler given time. Best thing to do is start him on the third line next year, and see where he goes from there.

#27 nuck nit

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 08:25 PM

Add Doan into the mix and Raymond gets squeezed further out.

How about a new centre man to fill in for Kesler? Arnott?

Raymond makes the third line and then gets traded before the deadline.

Hansen and Higgins have grit.Raymond-not so much.

#28 Canuck_Inferno

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 08:27 PM

Add Doan into the mix and Raymond gets squeezed further out.

How about a new centre man to fill in for Kesler? Arnott?

Raymond makes the third line and then gets traded before the deadline.

Hansen and Higgins have grit.Raymond-not so much.

That's the thing, so many players are better suited to certain roles than Raymond is on the Canucks. Unless he can return to form, it's hard to see where he's going to fit, especially if we sign a player like Doan.

#29 Ryanstorm

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 08:36 PM

Kassian has much more room to grow than Raymond, and was much less of a liability with the puck. Considering he's a natural right winger(something we are in short supply of), I'd rather give him a look than someone who's shown they can't do the job.



Which player slots out once Higgins is healthy?


It was a test.. to see if you would notice.. Ok. You got me. I forgot. :bigblush:
So let's just redo this.

Sedin - Sedin - Booth
Burrows - Kesler - Kassian
Higgins - Malhotra - Hansen
Raymond - Lapierre - Weiss/Volpatti (Competition for 4th line)

With Kesler injured
Sedin - Sedin - Booth
Burrows - Malhotra - Kassian
Higgins - Lapierre - Hansen
Raymond - (Ebbet/Schroder) - Weiss/Volpatti (Competition for 4th line)

10n8i06.jpg


#30 Gollumpus

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 08:38 PM

Where does he fit in the lineup?

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Kesler-Hansen
Higgins-Lapierre-Kassian
Volpatti-Malhotra-Weise

Ebbet

Which of those wingers does he legitimately deserve to beat out for a spot? Where can he cause the least harm with his falling flat on his arse?

Hansen has outplayed Raymond and deserves a 2nd line opening over him. Higgins is also more deserving of promotion to the 2nd line. Kassian fits better on the third line than Raymond and needs the opportunity to grow his game.

And Raymond would be absolutely terrible on the 4th line.

How would you make the best of a bad situation if we're stuck with him on the opening-day roster?


Too little information to make a proper determination at this time.

Assuming there is no strike/lockout:

1.) What if Doan signs?

2.) What if the Canucks sign Arnott? He could also play as a winger if/when the missing players return.

3.) What about the assets coming back in the potenital Luongo trade?

4.) What about the assets coming back in potential Schneider trade? (Yeah, I don't think it will happen either, but some folks do)

5.) What about Kassian? He looks like he is coming to camp in far better shape than he ended the past season and could show a lot more than just potential at a top-6 winger position (at least for the first 10 - 20 games?).

6.) What if any of Kassian, Hansen, Booth, Higgins etc come to camp and stinks out the joint? This is a low probability, but if one of them under-performs Raymond could find his way in because of their lack of performance.

7.) What Raymond comes to camp and plays better then anyone else that has been suggested? He won't be coming to camp 40 lbs of muscle heavier, but if he does show signs of having recovered his scoring touch of a few years ago he could genuinely win a top-6 spot. It could happen, even if you don't like the guy... and if you don't like him, hope that it does happen, because this is the best likelihood that Raymond will be traded, rather than him sitting in the pressbox taking up cap space.

September. Training camp. You'll get your answers then.

regards,
G.
Following the Canucks since before Don Cherry played here.




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