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If Raymond isn't traded...


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#31 Cup2013?

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 08:42 PM

Why would we give Kassian Raymond's spot?... I could see Kass earning it, but cut Ray some damn slack people.. we all know what he's givin to this team..


I must have missed his contribution.

Please fill me in.
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#32 King Heffy

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 08:44 PM

I must have missed his contribution.

Please fill me in.

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Put Gino in the ROH


#33 Drewman

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 09:15 PM

Kassian has much more room to grow than Raymond, and was much less of a liability with the puck. Considering he's a natural right winger(something we are in short supply of), I'd rather give him a look than someone who's shown they can't do the job.



Which player slots out once Higgins is healthy?



Uh, definitely wrong. Let's get a few things straight first:

a) Kassian only played 11 less games than Raymond, but put up half the points.
B) For all the terribleness you preach about Raymond, he was still a +4, Kassian was -2
c) Raymond had twice as many takeaways as Kassian did last season, and in relation to giveways, Kassian 8gives/ 10tks while Raymond was 12gives/ 20tks.
d)and then there's blocked shots (Raymond 13 to Kassian's 2)

So tell me, what numbers are you using to determine that Kassian is less of a liability?
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#34 King Heffy

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 09:23 PM

Uh, definitely wrong. Let's get a few things straight first:

a) Kassian only played 11 less games than Raymond, but put up half the points.
B) For all the terribleness you preach about Raymond, he was still a +4, Kassian was -2
c) Raymond had twice as many takeaways as Kassian did last season, and in relation to giveways, Kassian 8gives/ 10tks while Raymond was 12gives/ 20tks.
d)and then there's blocked shots (Raymond 13 to Kassian's 2)

So tell me, what numbers are you using to determine that Kassian is less of a liability?

a) Raymond got double the icetime most games with better linemates
B) See A
c) Made up by the fact that if Kassian hits someone, the player might actually lose control of the puck.
d) AV was putting him on the PK, and Raymond is good at falling onto the ice
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Put Gino in the ROH


#35 Peaches

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 09:33 PM

I will be very sad... Very, very, very sad
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#36 dorrcoq

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 09:38 PM

he broke his freeking back, lets at least give him training camp and pre season to show that he is back to 100%.

Raymond is poised to surprise alot of people.  He has earned the right to show us what he can do once fully recovered.

you guys just aren't happy unless we have a whipping boy


100% of Raymond is still mostly useless
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#37 dorrcoq

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 09:40 PM

Uh, definitely wrong. Let's get a few things straight first:

a) Kassian only played 11 less games than Raymond, but put up half the points.
B) For all the terribleness you preach about Raymond, he was still a +4, Kassian was -2
c) Raymond had twice as many takeaways as Kassian did last season, and in relation to giveways, Kassian 8gives/ 10tks while Raymond was 12gives/ 20tks.
d)and then there's blocked shots (Raymond 13 to Kassian's 2)

So tell me, what numbers are you using to determine that Kassian is less of a liability?


Other than points, most of those other stats are pretty much accumulated at the whims of the offical scorer. Probably the Canucks guy was more lenient than the Sabres guy.
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#38 Slegr

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 09:42 PM

Where does he fit in the lineup?

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Kesler-Hansen
Higgins-Lapierre-Kassian
Volpatti-Malhotra-Weise



If Hansen is on our second line, we have bigger problems then where Raymond is going to fit in.
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#39 Drewman

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 09:44 PM

a) Raymond got double the icetime most games with better linemates
B) See A
c) Made up by the fact that if Kassian hits someone, the player might actually lose control of the puck.
d) AV was putting him on the PK, and Raymond is good at falling onto the ice


Raymond did not get double the ice time (Raymond 15:35 to Kassian's 11:17. Your point about Kassian hitting someone and them losing control of the puck makes no sense to me. Raymond hits less, but has more takeaways (maybe size doesn't necessarily matter as much when it comes to defensive play?). And yes, Raymond did get PK time. Have you ever considered why that might be? (see point about blocked shots). Again, you're basing your opinion on nothing tangible.

My bet is, you'll find that Kassian will be given the opportunity this season to show he is capable to playing a better defensive game (I'm betting he trimmed down in size to gain some speed and mobility just to prove that he can play that kind of hockey). IF he shows he can be responsible in both ends, he will steal Raymond's spot, but until then Raymond is showing to be the more well rounded player.
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#40 Kassian's Tooth

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 09:55 PM

He'll be on Florida's 3rd line!!
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#41 sniper_1

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 10:23 PM

Where does he fit in the lineup?

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Kesler-Hansen
Higgins-Lapierre-Kassian
Volpatti-Malhotra-Weise

Ebbet

Which of those wingers does he legitimately deserve to beat out for a spot? Where can he cause the least harm with his falling flat on his arse?

Hansen has outplayed Raymond and deserves a 2nd line opening over him. Higgins is also more deserving of promotion to the 2nd line. Kassian fits better on the third line than Raymond and needs the opportunity to grow his game.

And Raymond would be absolutely terrible on the 4th line.

How would you make the best of a bad situation if we're stuck with him on the opening-day roster?



I think Raymond has a lot to prove this training camp and exhibition play. Granted he did just have back surgery last year, but I didn't think he was all that great 2 seasons ago either. No real excuses there playing on Keslers wing most of that season and playoff. Like others have said if he can't regain his form there may not be a spot for him. And the third line is a waste for a skill winger unless AV is gonna go with 3 scoring lines which I doubt. Kinda reminds me of Naslund in his last year here , trying to find the right fit. It will be interesting to see what Gillis does if Raymond doesn't deliver. I hope he can turn it around.
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#42 RyanKeslord17

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 10:41 PM

C'mon guys, stop being mean to Raymond!

He deserves to be on the second line!

...of the Chicago wolves.


I like you
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#43 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 10:51 PM

No one knows until Doan & Arnott are signed.

Depends on them.
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#44 Smyl ( :

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 12:50 AM

At least he doesn't hit anybody cause then he might get hurt.
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#45 icycold

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 01:06 AM

Ok! this is getting REALLY bad, threads like this.. IF we kept Raymond? wait it's worse than i thought, i know it's still the summer and we're all bored but cmon!
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#46 higgyfan

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 01:06 AM

Guys are putting Kassian on the 2nd line when he's proven nothing. Let's wait and see how he looks this year. And let's give Raymond the same fair chance.
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#47 PunjabiCanuck

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 01:32 AM

Sedin - Sedin - Booth
Burrows - Kesler (Schroder) - Kassian
Volpatti- Malhotra - Hansen
Raymond - Lapierre - Weiss
You forgot higgins

Got a bit of toughness on each line, and Weiss is on a one way contract so would be a waste to not use him. Volpatti on the 3rd line is iffy, but he is making a come back from injury so maybe replace him with Weiss or Raymond on the 3rd line. GM MG said himself Kassian has potential to make it to 2nd line this year.. Sounds good to me.


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#48 Bodee

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 01:54 AM

Where does he fit in the lineup?

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Kesler-Hansen
Higgins-Lapierre-Kassian
Volpatti-Malhotra-Weise

Ebbet

Which of those wingers does he legitimately deserve to beat out for a spot? Where can he cause the least harm with his falling flat on his arse?

Hansen has outplayed Raymond and deserves a 2nd line opening over him. Higgins is also more deserving of promotion to the 2nd line. Kassian fits better on the third line than Raymond and needs the opportunity to grow his game.

And Raymond would be absolutely terrible on the 4th line.

How would you make the best of a bad situation if we're stuck with him on the opening-day roster?


How do you come off writing rubbish like that about a decent hard working and talented player.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Of course that is your opinion and you are entitled to it but sadly it comes over as if a) you know nothing about hockey B) you are just one of the sheep on here who regurgitate the same old uneducated trash talk about Raymond.

It's pathetic that you need to start yet another thread like this.
Since when did Hansen prove he had what it takes to play on the 2nd line and what has Kassian shown so far to justify him on the the 3rd. How much does Booth really bring to the "team" effort and how do we know Kesler will recover his previous form?

Raymond, if fit and healthy will walk into his position on the 2nd line. He will do that because he has every skill in the book bar hitting opponents and who knows he may even do some of that. He brings energy, speed, goals allied to back and forecheck defence.
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#49 Pears

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 02:00 AM

I'd be happy with something like this

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Booth - Kesler - Kassian
Raymond - Lapierre - Higgins
Volpatti - Malhotra - Hansen

God it feels weird putting Raymond in the line up (I don't think I ever have)
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

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#50 Pouria

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 02:13 AM

Where does he fit in the lineup?

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Kesler-Hansen
Higgins-Lapierre-Kassian
Volpatti-Malhotra-Weise

Ebbet

Which of those wingers does he legitimately deserve to beat out for a spot? Where can he cause the least harm with his falling flat on his arse?

Hansen has outplayed Raymond and deserves a 2nd line opening over him. Higgins is also more deserving of promotion to the 2nd line. Kassian fits better on the third line than Raymond and needs the opportunity to grow his game.

And Raymond would be absolutely terrible on the 4th line.

How would you make the best of a bad situation if we're stuck with him on the opening-day roster?


I don't know why you guys are so obsessed with hating Raymond. Let it go...It is getting tiresome.


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#51 playboi19

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 02:20 AM

He'll make the team for sure, redemption time.
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#52 Baggins

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 03:27 AM

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I think Raymond has a lot to prove this training camp and exhibition play. Granted he did just have back surgery last year, but I didn't think he was all that great 2 seasons ago either. No real excuses there playing on Keslers wing most of that season and playoff. Like others have said if he can't regain his form there may not be a spot for him. And the third line is a waste for a skill winger unless AV is gonna go with 3 scoring lines which I doubt. Kinda reminds me of Naslund in his last year here , trying to find the right fit. It will be interesting to see what Gillis does if Raymond doesn't deliver. I hope he can turn it around.


Raymonds production was nowhere near as bad as most made out two years ago. His even strength ice time and production was about same as the year before when everybody loved Raymond. Where his production dropped was on the PP. He had about a 33% drop in PP ice time as the second unit didn't get on as often. Then add in Kesler being moved to the first unit and being replaced by Malhotra. That's replacing a 70 point center with a 30 point center. Under those circumstances a drop in production should have been expected. I was impressed he maintained his even strength production given the fact that he had a broken thumb, sprained wrist and a shoulder injury during that season.

But most fans here don't care about such circumstances. They just turn on players the moment they don't live up to their unrealistic expectations. Raymond quickly became the number one whipping boy.
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#53 Baggins

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 03:42 AM

I don't know why you guys are so obsessed with hating Raymond. Let it go...It is getting tiresome.


Every year there's a primary and one or two secondary whipping boys. Raymond is the current primary whipping boy. Which is why he appears in virtually every trade proposal here.
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#54 Lenny Jones

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 06:57 AM

Because he hasn't been given the opportunity. He played pretty well with the Sedins, and has earned the opportunity to see if he can perform.


I'll do it tonight, but there is an interview out there that asks Hansen about his stint on the second line and he said that he enjoyed playing on the second line but the kind of hockey he likes to play and the role he likes to be in is a role on the third line. I believe that interview was during or just after his time on the second.
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#55 CanucksSayEh

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 09:06 AM

MayRay is a bada$$, gonna score 30 this year and beat the crap outta Keith. Just ya'll wait.
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#56 RIPRYP

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 09:57 AM

If he isn't traded, WAIVERS
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#57 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 10:32 AM

Ideally, Raymond slots in on the third line. However, Kesler is coming off surgery and as of yet, the Canucks have not added anyone to fill that role. Schroeder may be able to do it, but unless one of the young players really shows the team something, don't be surprised to see Raymond there.

I know a lot of CDCers would feel like jumping off a bridge if that happened, but CDC is not particularly noted for objectivity.
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#58 Lockhart

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 10:35 AM

Can people STFU about the back injuries? He sucked BEFORE and AFTER so it isn't really an excuse.
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#59 Gollumpus

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 10:51 AM

Can people STFU about the back injuries? He sucked BEFORE and AFTER so it isn't really an excuse.


Can people STFU about telling other people to STFU about back injuries? Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about Kesler's back injury, or is it only Raymond's back about which we should STFU? :P

Who knows what kind of season Raymond would have had in 2011 - 12 if he had not suffered that back injury in the playoffs. He may have done poorly, or he may have done better.

regards,
G.
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#60 Scoobydooby

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 11:15 AM

Can people STFU about the back injuries? He sucked BEFORE and AFTER so it isn't really an excuse.


ahhhh I know! so frustrating listening to people use this as a constant excuse. If raymonds back was really so bad to the point that it was effecting his play then he shouldnt have even been put in the lineup.
SUCH BS. why cant canucks fans just face facts about some things..
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