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Is is the end of Canucks dream? Has Betman ruined our team


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#61 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 12:38 PM

If I were a player and I signed a legally binding contract at $5 mill per year for 4 years this is exactly what I would be paid.Cap rollback or not.
If I had signed a contract that gave me a percentage of the cap, and the cap got rolledback then I'd take less money.
Multiple lawsuits coming and possibly a class action suit that could win billions in a settlement if they try to take money back on a signed in good faith personal player contract.



The league can't unilaterally decide to roll back salaries. If (and that's a big "if") salaries are rolled back, it will because the NHLPA has agreed to a rollback.
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#62 sprouticus

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 12:56 PM

A six team league would include Chicago. Not Vancouver.


and our travel will be insane compared to the other teams. didn't put much thought into this did you??


edit* sorry...meant to quote the same person you were quoting.

Edited by sprouticus, 17 August 2012 - 01:15 PM.


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#63 sprouticus

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 01:14 PM

I personally think that teams should be given a loop hole in the cap to help them keep the players they draft. like for example, if a player is drafted by a team and signs a deal with that team only 75% percent of that players salary heads towards the cap. this will allow teams to pay players they have developed more and still be competitive. like with the oilers, we all know that the day will come that they will have to blow up their team because they wont have the cap room to keep their high end players, with the loop in the cap they could pay their players market value and be able to keep them all. Helps all NHL teams and markets, creates a sense of player loyalty towards their teams. imagine if we were able to take %25 (or whatever number) of the salary of drafted players off the cap. Sedins, kesler, bieksa, raymond, schids, elder are all able to be paid more for staying loyal to their team and their team stay competitive.

Just a random thought... patient pending!


I would take this one step further.....I would like to see teams only be able to draft players from an area around their city......with population and economic conditions considered for parity. I think then the nhl will be spending more money on minor hockey and developing their "players" when they are very young. I realize there are many many problems with this system....for one what would happen if a 15 year old promising prospect moves from toronto to alberta for example, but i still find the idea intriging. another issue is what if BC develops 20 D-men, all capable of playing top 2 minutes, but can't find a first line center, or a goalie.

teams can also be given an area of europe to draft from. I think this will force the southern teams to promote hockey more, I know this will never happen, and will cause more problems then it will solve, but i still like the idea.

Edited by sprouticus, 17 August 2012 - 01:16 PM.


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#64 WHL rocks

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 01:31 PM

I would take this one step further.....I would like to see teams only be able to draft players from an area around their city......with population and economic conditions considered for parity. I think then the nhl will be spending more money on minor hockey and developing their "players" when they are very young. I realize there are many many problems with this system....for one what would happen if a 15 year old promising prospect moves from toronto to alberta for example, but i still find the idea intriging. another issue is what if BC develops 20 D-men, all capable of playing top 2 minutes, but can't find a first line center, or a goalie.

teams can also be given an area of europe to draft from. I think this will force the southern teams to promote hockey more, I know this will never happen, and will cause more problems then it will solve, but i still like the idea.


What happens to all the teams in the US that don't have NHL quality or even close to NHL quality prospects in their city, or State for that matter. Do they not get to draft?

You are right when you say "this will never happen".

Edited by WHL rocks, 17 August 2012 - 01:31 PM.


#65 gurn

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 01:37 PM

The players association can negotiate a cap with the league, not individual rollbacks for each player. At least IMO.
The players have individual contracts signed in good faithwith the team for x dollars, what the team can pay all its players as a total can be negotiated by the association and the owners under the CBA.
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#66 Dogbyte

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 01:52 PM

So let's say it is about 20%, so the Sedin play for about $5mil. The agent's take is about 10% so down to $4.5 mil then you take income tax in BC for that kind of salary (if the are taxed in sweden for some of it is even higher) is about 43% which leaves a net of about $2.5 million a year. Great money but not quite the $6 million + that people have in their mind. And this is over a carreer of about 15 years for top players. A doctor can make $600- 700,000 a year for 40 years. Just to put things in perspective. On the other hand, NHL revenues last year were $3.3 billion, total. In comparison, profits (not revenues, profits) for the Royal Bank alone are around $6.5 billion a year. This gives you an idea of the size of the hockey business- small, very small potatoes.

Royal Bank is about the biggest business in hockey, half that is not small potatoes.

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#67 juwanski

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 02:46 PM

the market is only going to grow bigger if there is a season or not. The confrence system or w/e it's called is getting changed for the better. The games will be aired on TV at much better times in the lesser markets.

#68 TACIC

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 02:58 PM

I personally think that teams should be given a loop hole in the cap to help them keep the players they draft. like for example, if a player is drafted by a team and signs a deal with that team only 75% percent of that players salary heads towards the cap. this will allow teams to pay players they have developed more and still be competitive. like with the oilers, we all know that the day will come that they will have to blow up their team because they wont have the cap room to keep their high end players, with the loop in the cap they could pay their players market value and be able to keep them all. Helps all NHL teams and markets, creates a sense of player loyalty towards their teams. imagine if we were able to take %25 (or whatever number) of the salary of drafted players off the cap. Sedins, kesler, bieksa, raymond, schids, elder are all able to be paid more for staying loyal to their team and their team stay competitive.

Just a random thought... patient pending!

That is actually a great idea and you should send it in to the NHL;)It would benifit the league and all teams could remain competitive.Suter and Parise among others would stay in NJ/NAS and keep their teams competitive
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#69 Teen Icarus

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 03:01 PM

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#70 TACIC

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 03:02 PM

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lol where did you find that
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#71 Teen Icarus

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 03:18 PM

lol where did you find that


At one point, it was the first image that appeared when you googled 'mismanagement'.
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#72 brycemeat

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 04:17 PM

It will ruin all the markets that spend near the cap. To recover $15-20M in salary to get under the cap, players like Crosby, Malkin, Weber, Sedin, Sedin, Ovechkin, Chara, Staal and others will have to be sent to the AHL for the duration of the new CBA; likely the rest of their careers.

Sad.


Clearly didn't read anything above his own post.

#73 Tortorella's Rant

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 04:19 PM

Who wants the NHL to be like MLB?

I actually like the idea of having no cap, it would be great for us because we would be able to acquire a lot of great players. Sure there are a lot of negatives like overpaying for players by a lot, but teams would be at a more equal level (spending wise, unless your Phoenix or New Jersey).


That's also what keeps the Jays from making the playoffs, is it not? Competing against NY and Boston financially is a battle they will never win.
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#74 TACIC

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 04:23 PM

At one point, it was the first image that appeared when you googled 'mismanagement'.

thx
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#75 BenSurgeon

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 04:51 PM

Seven years ago the NHL thought they fixed the problem of escalating salaries but then they have no one to blame but the owners that throw around millions on 3rd and 4th line players.
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#76 Baggins

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 09:51 PM

WAIT wait wait wait.... does he seriously get paid $8 to destroy the NHL? ill take 1/16 of his pay and would do a better job. this isn't a parody or a satire.... its a friggen tragedy!


You wouldn't manage to keep the job though unless you did what the owners wanted. You see Bettman gets paid his salary because he's doing a good job. As determined by the owners. If he wasn't doing what the owners wanted he wouldn't have that high salary or his job for that matter. People love to blame Bettman but he does the owners bidding.
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#77 Baggins

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 09:59 PM

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If he's doing such a bad job why did the owners extend him with a raise? Sure there are fans that hate him because he's not doing what they want. But then those fans don't have a half billion dollar investment in the league. That's why he does what the owners want instead of the know it all fans.
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#78 Wilbur

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 10:23 PM

I personally think that teams should be given a loop hole in the cap to help them keep the players they draft. like for example, if a player is drafted by a team and signs a deal with that team only 75% percent of that players salary heads towards the cap. this will allow teams to pay players they have developed more and still be competitive. like with the oilers, we all know that the day will come that they will have to blow up their team because they wont have the cap room to keep their high end players, with the loop in the cap they could pay their players market value and be able to keep them all. Helps all NHL teams and markets, creates a sense of player loyalty towards their teams. imagine if we were able to take %25 (or whatever number) of the salary of drafted players off the cap. Sedins, kesler, bieksa, raymond, schids, elder are all able to be paid more for staying loyal to their team and their team stay competitive.

Just a random thought... patient pending!

Good idea in theory but pretty quickly, I'd imagine, rather than saving 25% of your cap on your drafted players, drafted players will just end up costing 25% more.

I had a similar partially formed idea where, instead of a full-out salary cap, why not just have a free agent salary cap? Or, to prevent teams colluding from signing and trading to circumvent the cap, have drafted players with that team not count against the cap period. Then, to promote trading, players that a team trades for count against the cap until their current contract expires. If they resign, they are treated as if they were a drafted player by that team.

Edited by Wilbur, 18 August 2012 - 10:24 PM.


#79 nuck nit

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 10:26 PM

Bettman does what the owners want because they pay him.Full stop.
If the present greedy idiots/owners in power (represented by the head rat lawyer that collectively represents their interests) were to actually police their player contractual game of usurping one another FOR PERSONAL GAIN the league would not have continual work stoppages.
Then the players would not be locked out and the fans would not be left suffering for the owner's greed and fiscal creativity to one up each other.
The owners are the ones that create the problems that the player's union have to sort out on a regular basis.
The fans pay the owners and the players and keep them in caviar and Bentley's/Ferrari's .The owners and Bettman can 'pluck yew'.

Edited by nuck nit, 18 August 2012 - 10:42 PM.


#80 Mr. Self Destruct

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 09:08 AM

Bettman does what the owners want because they pay him.Full stop.
If the present greedy idiots/owners in power (represented by the head rat lawyer that collectively represents their interests) were to actually police their player contractual game of usurping one another FOR PERSONAL GAIN the league would not have continual work stoppages.
Then the players would not be locked out and the fans would not be left suffering for the owner's greed and fiscal creativity to one up each other.
The owners are the ones that create the problems that the player's union have to sort out on a regular basis.
The fans pay the owners and the players and keep them in caviar and Bentley's/Ferrari's .The owners and Bettman can 'pluck yew'.


Agreed, 100%. I used to despise Bettman as much as the next person, until I realized that he is just the messenger. In my opinion, the owners are the ones responsible for this mess, not Bettman.
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#81 Edler Is a Beast

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 09:34 AM

I'm no grammar-nazi, but this spelling error made me lol:

"Yes this may add to parody in the league but..."

#82 Garrison

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 09:46 AM

First off the guy who created this thread doesn't even know how to make an understandable title.

I now have a question:

I understand that the player's salary will be rolled back but do the players still make the money that they signed for or make the amount of the new salary cap hit??

Also what if the cap goes up? Do the player's salaries that were signed for mega deals such as (Suter, Parise,Weber Crosby's) salaries go back up? Because if they don't the GM's that signed them just got saved.

#83 oldnews

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 09:58 AM

the fans should be demanding a ticket price/merchandise/tv access rollback relative to the rollback on the salary cap - or we lock ourselves out.

as for the owners, your agents, the GMs have entered into these contracts on your behalf - instead of turning around and reneging, they should have been exercising the caution that businesses must when making decisions about spending. The fact that you now intend to lockout players because your GMs got out of hand is a huge contradiction, and fail, imo.

p.s. small market US franchise Minnesota just made a mockery of the owners position doing what they did on the UFA market - signing two guys to 26 years and 200ish million.

Edited by oldnews, 19 August 2012 - 10:15 AM.


#84 MC Fatigue

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 10:47 AM

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#85 nuck nit

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 04:41 PM

It is the owner's franchise and investment risk-lock,stock and barrel.

The GM's report directly to the owners and anything they do with their owners money they are accountable for.

Every big money deal must meet owner's approval-it is their dough,not the GM's.

Edited by nuck nit, 19 August 2012 - 04:42 PM.


#86 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 12:53 PM

It is the owner's franchise and investment risk-lock,stock and barrel.

The GM's report directly to the owners and anything they do with their owners money they are accountable for.

Every big money deal must meet owner's approval-it is their dough,not the GM's.



Exactly, and this is why I think the owners are going to be the ones on the other side of public opinion this time around.

There are a few teams out there that seem to be interested in nothing but themselves and nothing but the present. Philly comes to mind right away, but they aren't the only ones.

Eventually there is so much spending like drunken sailors, the have-not teams decide something must be done, so here we are in a position where the players are being asked to make concessions in order to correct the mistakes of a handful of reckless organizations.

I remember reading a comment on this board that suggested the PA has a "tougher" leader this time around, however, people should remember that Goodenough wanted to stay the course in the last lockout. It was factions within the PA itself that forced the agreement.

I don't think you'll see that same type of fragmentization this time around. The owners had better be prepared to live with a 50/50 revenue split, or it could be a long time before we see NHL hockey again.
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#87 Caboose

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 06:06 PM

so basically every team has to get rid of their best players.

bettman's a b****


I think you are having trouble understanding.

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#88 hudson bay rules

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 10:13 PM

So you preferred watching the Wings and Avs duke it out year after year for most of a decade? That's the problem with no cap. The teams willing to overspend are the ones competing year after year while the teams with a budget develop players for them. Might as well go back to a six team league and be done with it.


Well, that was great hockey now wasn't it.

BTW, the AV's (Nordiques) got to where they were thru great trades and the Wings are just a solid organization that competes nearly every year. Salaries weren't the issue in either case.
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#89 Baggins

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 12:45 AM

Well, that was great hockey now wasn't it.

BTW, the AV's (Nordiques) got to where they were thru great trades and the Wings are just a solid organization that competes nearly every year. Salaries weren't the issue in either case.


And you'd be wrong. The AV's and Wings competed every off-season for the top UFA's and were among the top five payrolls in the league year after year. When Forsberg and Sakic were both there, the Avs top PP unit plus Roy cost more than our entire roster. The free spenders were the ones competing for the cup every year. Which is why a salary cap is better system.
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#90 fullcontact

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 07:17 AM

and our travel will be insane compared to the other teams. didn't put much thought into this did you??


edit* sorry...meant to quote the same person you were quoting.


Are you telling me, as a fan, you wouldn't want to pay to see teams in a league where all the best players played or you'd much rather shell out hundreds of dollars to watch a team like the Blue Jackets? Sounds to me like you didn't put much thought into your comment either.




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