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#301 Gretzky's Mullet

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 11:38 AM

Professional athletes are loyal to one color, green. It's hard for fans to grasp sometimes, but very few of these guys really care that much about the uniform itself. There are exceptions of course, which the fans tend to love, and some uniforms do inspire more in the players (first being, naturally, the Yankees). Of course some guys also get a thrill out of playing for their hometown team, and this can affect loyalty, though when it goes bad hometown attachment makes things worse, see: James, LeBron. But Kevin Youkilis is from Cincinnati, not Boston, so if the Yankees are going to roll up to his door with a whole bunch of money, why wouldn't he sign? Not to mention that a big reason for the breakup of the Red Sox core in the last couple of years was player discontent breeding locker room animosity. Youk left under uncomfortable circumstances because of a poor relationship with Bobby Valentine.

I'm more concerned about the fact that as a Yankee, Youkilis is probably going to have to shave his beard off and I have to see his ugly mug once every 9 batters while watching a game involving New York.

EDIT: or were you mentioning it more in the context of "why do so many players specifically play for the Yankees after playing for the Red Sox?" In which case, who knows? Maybe because the Yankees see them so often they consider ex-Red Sox a known quantity and covet the ones they see as being the best?

Edited by Gretzky's Mullet, 12 December 2012 - 11:41 AM.

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#302 Gally

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 08:57 PM

That's some big cash for Hamilton
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#303 Raoul Duke

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:23 PM

Hmmmmm $25 mil/year? Anyone remember how well he played down the stretch last season? Yikes.
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#304 Gretzky's Mullet

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 01:29 PM

I guess the Angels were willing to assume some risk that the Rangers weren't. When he's on, Hamilton is one of the most dominant hitters in baseball. But he gets hurt every year, and his lack of consistency, especially late in the year, is maddening.

However, I think a major part of this story is in how it demonstrates that the Texas Rangers still aren't ready for big time. That team plays in one of the country's most populous cities (Dallas is the 4th biggest metro area by population), what should be the largest non-coastal sports market outside of Chicago. And they have it all to themselves. They ranked 3rd in the league in attendance last season, behind the Phillies and Yankees, and they have had plenty of recent playoff revenues added in as well. And yet they get emasculated in their pursuit of a player they really wanted to keep, by their biggest rival with an already hugely bloated payroll to boot. Sure, the Rangers will still be good this year, but this has to be a painful kick in the nuts, and a major message to fans saying that while they may fill the stadium and buy the $11 beer just like fans in New York, San Francisco, Boston, Philadelphia and Chicago, they still can't get to that level.

Edited by Gretzky's Mullet, 14 December 2012 - 01:29 PM.

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#305 Disaronno

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:48 PM

Jays close to acquiring R.A Dickey :frantic:
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#306 Tony Romo

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 12:31 AM

I'm hearing its darnaud for dicky
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#307 g_bassi13

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 12:37 AM

Jays close to acquiring R.A Dickey :frantic:


Good.

I'm hearing its darnaud for dicky


Not so good. There are a lot of players I'm okay with giving up. d'Arnaud is not one of them.
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#308 Disaronno

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 12:46 AM

I would be happy with one of the following trades:


Anthony Gose + JP Arencebia for R.A. Dickey

or

Anthony Gose + Travis D'Arnaud for R.A Dickey + Zack Wheeler
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#309 VintageForever420

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:28 AM

frack Fickey one good season, and he's considered a god. Not worth it. Id rather sign someone like Marcum, and keep the prospects. Maybe use them to aquire a second baseman.

Edited by VintageForever420, 15 December 2012 - 09:41 AM.

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#310 Wilbur

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 02:39 PM

I agree with you all, D'Arnaud looks like he is just going to rake at every level, as a catcher no less. Granted the injuries he has sustained may limit his time behind the plate I see him possibly pushing Lind out of his spot. I don't think Dickey is necessarily a one year wonder but I'm hesitant to give up a future MVP candidate for a knuckleballer. I'd give up any 2 of Gose, Arencibia, Rasmus, or one of their top young arms (have to give something to get something) but I'd hate to trade D'Arnaud.
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#311 shiznak

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:24 AM

A big fat No to Dickey. He's a good pitcher but I think he'll get destroyed in the AL east. Fenway, Yankee's stadium, Camden Yard, and Rogers center where all amongst in the top 10 friendly hitter ballparks around the league.
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#312 Gretzky's Mullet

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 09:59 AM

I'm surprised at all the scorn around the potential of an RA Dickey acquisition. This is a sure sign that AA sees 2013 as a year the Blue Jays can not just leapfrog a few teams, or grab a wild card, but actually win it all. Some teams stock their farm system to slowly develop a core, others use it as an asset, and while the idea of a home grown team working their way to the top has a certain feel-good appeal, it's not the road to the top in baseball, especially in the AL East. Looking back, you see that basically all the World Series champions of this era have been willing to spend significant money on free agents and sacrifice young talent to acquire veterans along the way. Even among the losers, the 2006 Tigers, 2007 Rockies and 2008 Rays stand out as a short streak of homegrown teams that made it to the Series sandwiched between years of big spenders. AA is basically sending a message to the Red Sox, Yankees, Orioles and the rest of baseball that they should be afraid, very afraid. I think the perfect example of the fate of the homegrown team was the Brewers of a couple of years ago: they'd finally matured their team together, Fielder and Braun were hitting their primes, they had the complimentary pieces in place, and they couldn't pass muster. Fielder left, and they're middling again and needing another rebuild. The Jays obviously don't want to enter that pattern and feel they have the money to rise above it.

Also, as I have posted before in this thread, there's a trend to fetishize prospects these days. Yes, D'Arnaud looks like the real deal, but he's also still in the minors, so he's obviously not the next Harper or Trout or whoever either. Until players actually show they can hit major league pitching, and can handle the rigors of the game at its highest level, for the most part they are question marks. The difference between AAA and the majors is really the largest of all jumps. Let's also not forget that D'Arnaud's biggest offensive numbers have been in the PCL, which is known to be an extremely hitter friendly league. If anything, his numbers in New Hampshire the year before might be more impressive, because the Eastern League is much harder on hitters, but that's AA pitching we're talking about, not the high 90's heat and ungodly junk that major leaguers can throw.

Edited by Gretzky's Mullet, 16 December 2012 - 10:03 AM.

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#313 Tony Romo

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 12:51 PM

Do you guys think our bullpen is good enough?
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#314 VintageForever420

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:20 PM

Do you guys think our bullpen is good enough?

Negative, and if AA was smart he would trade our prospects for bullpen depth. Sign someone like Marcum or have Happ as the 5th starter.
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#315 Wilbur

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 04:58 PM

Do you guys think our bullpen is good enough?

I think it's good enough to head into the season with provided Oliver decides to come back. Janssen was as good as the came last year for closers. Delabar and Loup are great righty/lefty specialists. Lincoln had his rough outings but is still young and can learn pitching in less critical situations for now. If Lyon doesn't come back that sucks as he was a pretty good 8th inning guy but Santos coming off of injury should be able to more than fill those shoes.

Sure you could always use more depth but I think so far so good.
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#316 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 05:32 PM

A big fat No to Dickey. He's a good pitcher but I think he'll get destroyed in the AL east. Fenway, Yankee's stadium, Camden Yard, and Rogers center where all amongst in the top 10 friendly hitter ballparks around the league.

I'm not so sure. Tim Wakefield managed to hang around long after his "best before" date, all the while pitching in those very parks. A full half of them at Fenway.
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#317 Tearloch7

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 05:41 PM

I'm not so sure. Tim Wakefield managed to hang around long after his "best before" date, all the while pitching in those very parks. A full half of them at Fenway.


Excellent point Rupe .. plus a healthy hitting line-up will add a run a game in those some Parks for the Jays ..
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#318 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 06:02 PM

Excellent point Rupe .. plus a healthy hitting line-up will add a run a game in those some Parks for the Jays ..

Yeah. I've never really believed that the park makes a big difference to a knuckleballer. Be it Fenway or Minute Maid park, if a hitter like Cabrera or Pujols squares one up, it's going to leave the yard.
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#319 iLLmAtlc

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:46 PM

Oh man I hate this trade so much. Your top hitting/position prospect and your top pitching prospect for one aging guy seems like way too much, especially when the Jays are already in a pretty good spot in the AL East it seems. I'd pray that it falls apart but I just don't see the Jays going that far to not meet his contractual demands now.
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#320 Xbox

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:50 PM

Looks like the Jays are getting R.A. Dickey.

Only thing that can stop it is Dickey to ask for more than 26M
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#321 Tony Romo

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 11:22 PM

If the trade goes through

Dickey
Buehrle
Johnson
Morrow
Romero

Amazing!
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#322 shiznak

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 01:37 AM

I'm not so sure. Tim Wakefield managed to hang around long after his "best before" date, all the while pitching in those very parks. A full half of them at Fenway.


Tim Wakefield was nothing more than an average pitcher at best.

Dickey's stats against an AL East team proves my point, albeit it's a small sample size.
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#323 playboi19

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 02:53 AM

Who cares about trading prospects. The Jays need to make the playoffs once in this century, might as well go all in.
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#324 Gretzky's Mullet

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 10:48 AM

Tim Wakefield was nothing more than an average pitcher at best.

Dickey's stats against an AL East team proves my point, albeit it's a small sample size.

Perhaps, but Wakefield was also a key cog on two World Series winning teams. A knuckleballer can be a particularly valuable asset in the playoffs too, because the low strain on the arm means they can eat up innings like no one else. I remember some of those extra inning Yankees-Red Sox games where they'd bring Wakefield in in relief for 5 innings when the bullpen was starting to strain.

Also, R.A. is an obvious late-bloomer, so it's a little unfair to use his early career stats in the AL to compare to his more recent ones. Granted, one might say he's benefited from playing in the NL, but he's also been playing in the toughest division in the NL, and he's 7-0 in 10 interleague starts as a Met as well. I also think that the "aging" issue is less in play with him, because knuckleballers can still be effective at a more advanced age when more conventional pitchers are in decline due to dropping velocity, Wakefield pitched until he was 45, and Phil Niekro pitched until he was 48. R.A. probably isn't as good as Niekro, but he's arguably more reliable than Wakefield.
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#325 Gretzky's Mullet

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:04 AM

Oh man I hate this trade so much. Your top hitting/position prospect and your top pitching prospect for one aging guy seems like way too much, especially when the Jays are already in a pretty good spot in the AL East it seems. I'd pray that it falls apart but I just don't see the Jays going that far to not meet his contractual demands now.

They may be "in a pretty good spot" but that doesn't cut it these days. AA sees the window to win open right now, not a few years from now. This trade, while sacrificing on a great deal of potential, makes the Blue Jays the likely favorite to win the AL East. Sure, it's risky, but AA obviously felt that playing it slow and safe wasn't good enough, especially considering that the Jays are sitting on a few superstars in their primes (Bautista, Reyes) and in general a collection of players who are ready to win now. It might not work, but it's the first time I can recall (maybe even since the acquisition of Alomar and Carter in 1991) that the Blue Jays came straight out and indicated that "the time is now".
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#326 Baercheese

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:56 AM

Like many have said, the time is now the the AL east. I'm for one glad that AA is willing to trade pieces to make this team competitive.

Dickey
JJ
Romero
Morrow
Buehrle with Happ, Cecil, and Drabek on deck

Reyes SS
Cabrera LF
Bautista RF
Encarnacion DH
Rasmus CF
Lawrie 3B
Arencibia C
Lind 1B
Izturis 2B

That is one sexy lineup if you ask me


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Edler, Markstrom, Hansen, 2nd round pick 2014 to Islanders for Ryan Strome, 5th overall pick 2014

This is fairly even as well.

 


#327 theminister

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 12:11 PM

Fun stat.

When pitching indoors over the last 3 years Dickey's ERA is 1.72.

/ Love this move. It moves Morrow-Romero down to the 4th and 5th spot in the rotation meaning they should be able to eat up wins against the bottom half of the league. Also, for the first time I can remember, the Jays should have the upper hand on inter league games with so many players familiar with the NL.

// The rotation now has two power pitchers, two control pitchers and a knuckleballer. That's going to be hell to adjust to.

Edited by theminister, 17 December 2012 - 12:14 PM.

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#328 g_bassi13

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 12:54 PM

They're saying Dickey extended for $25 million for 2 years, which is actually lower than the $26 mil he was wanting from the Mets. I was thinking by default they would have to be going up with their offer, rather than down. That's great news, and a hell of a bargain with the way the market is.

I'm still disappointed at giving up d'Arnaud of all players, but it is what it is. Now's the time to get excited about what Dickey is going to bring. Doesn't need to be said that bringing in a reigning Cy Young winner puts them in a better position than if they tried to half ass it with a free agent signing.

They can still use improvements at 2B and DH/1B (over Izturis and Lind), but I don't think there will be anymore major moves coming along after this one.
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#329 Baercheese

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 01:36 PM

2 years at 25mil, not bad at all.

One of Cecil and Drabek will be traded for bullpen or 2B/1B upgrades. Who would be available?
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Edler, Markstrom, Hansen, 2nd round pick 2014 to Islanders for Ryan Strome, 5th overall pick 2014

This is fairly even as well.

 


#330 shiznak

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 05:53 PM

I don't know, I'm just not sold on Dickey as an elite starter and beside I didn't really think the Jays needed another top of the rotation starter. Their rotation, without Dickey, has to be one of the best rotation in the AL and certainly in the AL East. I would have been happy if they just signed Marcum as a 4th/5th starter and upgrade on their 2nd base position via trade.
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