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[Report] Canucks to begin extension talks with Edler


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#271 JHansenFan

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:50 PM

Ok let me explain what should be obvious.

Edler get's shots any dman would with the Sedins the coaches want him shooting a ton they think either he scores, rebounds are to be had and opens things up for the Sedins. The sad thing is any dman with a shot as hard as Edlers should have 15 goals easy getting all the chances they get with the Sedins. He gets a lot of shots but he misses the net far too often and could be far more productive at it from what is see.


To clarify i deleted part of your post, not because it doesn't support my argument, but because my paragraphs are long, and i don't want this entire post to take up half a page.

One part made me laugh really hard when i glanced by it the first time. Edler's weak on retrieving dump in's? That should be fairly obvious. That's like saying... Well Schneider is a great goalie, but he lacks that finish in the offensive zone. News flash buddy Edler isn't supposed to get the dump in's. He's supposed to ring it as hard as he can from centre and have a good forecheck supporting him. If Edler is aided by the Sedin's, then Garrison's 16 goals were aided by Campbell who is a slick passer. Our defence core is looking pretty weak then. The players around you are supposed to make you better, hence why they are your teammates. Edler's hard shot aids the twins when they play, just like the smooth passing of Campbell helped Garrison. What your essentially saying is that unless a player can do it all on their own... such as Sidney then they are utterly useless, since the point of hockey isn't to work the pucks off your teammates to get the best results for your team. I have never played in high level hockey such as junior B, or WHL, or any of those high level leagues, but i can tell you right now that passing between teammates is a far better solution then doing it all yourself. Again I am a fan with my own opinion, but I believe that Edler helps the Sedin's, not as much as the Sedin's help him, but he is a strong force playing with the twins.

Now going onto the "good defensemen" logic. Erik Karlsson doesn't strike fear into anyone. Hell he doesn't even strike fear into me, but his skating ability and offensive flair make him such a good defensemen. Phaneuf is very inconsistent, yet he still strikes fear into opposing forwards just like Edler puts fear into the likes of opposing forwards. Different players can do different things, and the Canucks aren't so fortunate that we can ignore skill, just because we want to have more grit. Brian Burke tried that signing Mike Komisarek and making his team bigger, meaner, and tougher.... We can all agree as Canucks fans that the leafs are unsuccessful at the moment.

To conclude, I am not in denial. I understand that Edler has been inconsistent in the past, but he's working to develop his game. Every player gets on hot and cold streaks, even the Sedin's and Kesler arguably our best players. If we let Edler walk, we might have KC to plug the gap, but I wouldn't be too confident about our defence group with him as our bottom pairing. Even Nashville who had a guy like Ryan Ellis in the wing, and who seem to do nothing but churn out defensemen after defensemen have nightmares over letting Suter walk. The Canucks are not that good at developing quality defensemen consistently. Yes we have hit gems in the past such as Bieksa, Tanev, KC(hopefully), and Edler. I am not Edler's biggest fan boy, and I can see that he has flaws in his game, but he's still only 26 and he has plenty of time to improve.


P.S. I am trying to convince you to see my side of view, just like you are trying to give me your side of view. That is how a message board is supposed to work correct?
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#272 drummerboy

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:06 PM

Lp
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#273 The Big Luongo

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:45 PM

To clarify i deleted part of your post, not because it doesn't support my argument, but because my paragraphs are long, and i don't want this entire post to take up half a page.

One part made me laugh really hard when i glanced by it the first time. Edler's weak on retrieving dump in's? That should be fairly obvious. That's like saying... Well Schneider is a great goalie, but he lacks that finish in the offensive zone. News flash buddy Edler isn't supposed to get the dump in's. He's supposed to ring it as hard as he can from centre and have a good forecheck supporting him. If Edler is aided by the Sedin's, then Garrison's 16 goals were aided by Campbell who is a slick passer. Our defence core is looking pretty weak then. The players around you are supposed to make you better, hence why they are your teammates. Edler's hard shot aids the twins when they play, just like the smooth passing of Campbell helped Garrison. What your essentially saying is that unless a player can do it all on their own... such as Sidney then they are utterly useless, since the point of hockey isn't to work the pucks off your teammates to get the best results for your team. I have never played in high level hockey such as junior B, or WHL, or any of those high level leagues, but i can tell you right now that passing between teammates is a far better solution then doing it all yourself. Again I am a fan with my own opinion, but I believe that Edler helps the Sedin's, not as much as the Sedin's help him, but he is a strong force playing with the twins.

Now going onto the "good defensemen" logic. Erik Karlsson doesn't strike fear into anyone. Hell he doesn't even strike fear into me, but his skating ability and offensive flair make him such a good defensemen. Phaneuf is very inconsistent, yet he still strikes fear into opposing forwards just like Edler puts fear into the likes of opposing forwards. Different players can do different things, and the Canucks aren't so fortunate that we can ignore skill, just because we want to have more grit. Brian Burke tried that signing Mike Komisarek and making his team bigger, meaner, and tougher.... We can all agree as Canucks fans that the leafs are unsuccessful at the moment.

To conclude, I am not in denial. I understand that Edler has been inconsistent in the past, but he's working to develop his game. Every player gets on hot and cold streaks, even the Sedin's and Kesler arguably our best players. If we let Edler walk, we might have KC to plug the gap, but I wouldn't be too confident about our defence group with him as our bottom pairing. Even Nashville who had a guy like Ryan Ellis in the wing, and who seem to do nothing but churn out defensemen after defensemen have nightmares over letting Suter walk. The Canucks are not that good at developing quality defensemen consistently. Yes we have hit gems in the past such as Bieksa, Tanev, KC(hopefully), and Edler. I am not Edler's biggest fan boy, and I can see that he has flaws in his game, but he's still only 26 and he has plenty of time to improve.


P.S. I am trying to convince you to see my side of view, just like you are trying to give me your side of view. That is how a message board is supposed to work correct?


Wow buddy get with it i meant dump ins by the opposition in the defensive zone. Come on man who the hell would think a dman should be frequently getting his own shoot ins lol.

Look Edlers weaknesses outweigh his assets it's as simple as that. That's what i have always seen and that's all i am saying.

Edited by The Big Luongo, 07 October 2012 - 10:56 PM.

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#274 JHansenFan

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:26 PM

Wow buddy get with it i meant dump ins by the opposition in the defensive zone. Come on man who the hell would think a dman should be frequently getting his own shoot ins lol.

Look Edlers weaknesses outweigh his assets it's as simple as that. That's what i have always seen and that's all i am saying.


I don't see proof of Edler being weak on the dump in's in the defensive zone. The Canucks have always been known for having a strong and experienced break out. Edler fortunately is a huge part of that breakout. If you think my opinion is wrong then please continue this argument with me. This is a message board, and you already have had no issues with putting your views on this thread. Why not continue this with me? His assets are being a very good power play quarter back, a strong hitter, huge shot, and the fact that he posses the capabilities for a mean breakout. I'm not here to read your mind, but to simply interpret what your saying, and argue my point of view. If something's unclear then i can spin it one way or another. A solution for you is to spell everything out clearly for me, and I won't have an opportunity to do that. I can name examples of all stars who rely on other players in order for them to be successful. Jason Garrison with Brian Campbell? Kevin Bieksa with Dan Hamhuis? Shea Weber with Ryan Suter? Drew Doughty with Rob Scuderi? No matter how good you are, you need others to be successful. If putting Edler with the Sedin's means that he is a effective PP QB who puts up 45 points a season who cares? Burrows makes the Sedin's better, but the Sedin's make Burrows into a 30 goal scorer. No one in the organization has the skill or the experience to replace the 45 points that Edler can put up in a season, and you unfortunately don't realize this for some dim witted reason.
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#275 SEAN HARNETT

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 07:36 PM

I don't see proof of Edler being weak on the dump in's in the defensive zone. The Canucks have always been known for having a strong and experienced break out. Edler fortunately is a huge part of that breakout. If you think my opinion is wrong then please continue this argument with me. This is a message board, and you already have had no issues with putting your views on this thread. Why not continue this with me? His assets are being a very good power play quarter back, a strong hitter, huge shot, and the fact that he posses the capabilities for a mean breakout. I'm not here to read your mind, but to simply interpret what your saying, and argue my point of view. If something's unclear then i can spin it one way or another. A solution for you is to spell everything out clearly for me, and I won't have an opportunity to do that. I can name examples of all stars who rely on other players in order for them to be successful. Jason Garrison with Brian Campbell? Kevin Bieksa with Dan Hamhuis? Shea Weber with Ryan Suter? Drew Doughty with Rob Scuderi? No matter how good you are, you need others to be successful. If putting Edler with the Sedin's means that he is a effective PP QB who puts up 45 points a season who cares? Burrows makes the Sedin's better, but the Sedin's make Burrows into a 30 goal scorer. No one in the organization has the skill or the experience to replace the 45 points that Edler can put up in a season, and you unfortunately don't realize this for some dim witted reason.


As far as replacing the 45 points go's, I would be fine with a forward replacing those points and having a better defensive minded D. I understand why Gillis doesn't want to give huge money to edler,it's because he isnt worth anything over 5 mil. Defensively Edler is decent and offensively he is really good. The problem I see with Edler is mental tuffness and consistency, both things you need to be a Stanley Cup contender. I really like Edler on most nights, but he also makes me mad allot aswell. If Edler and his agent feel they can do better on the open market, then so be it. I'm sure the Canucks can do just as well in a trade or on the free agent market to replace him.
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#276 JHansenFan

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 07:46 PM

As far as replacing the 45 points go's, I would be fine with a forward replacing those points and having a better defensive minded D. I understand why Gillis doesn't want to give huge money to edler,it's because he isnt worth anything over 5 mil. Defensively Edler is decent and offensively he is really good. The problem I see with Edler is mental tuffness and consistency, both things you need to be a Stanley Cup contender. I really like Edler on most nights, but he also makes me mad allot aswell. If Edler and his agent feel they can do better on the open market, then so be it. I'm sure the Canucks can do just as well in a trade or on the free agent market to replace him.


Detroit one of the best consistent teams, couldn't get a guy like Suter to ink with them. We have tried that forward on the point... his name was Samuelsson. If teams understand that we can't sign Edler, and we're letting him walk his value will be just a bit over what Ehrhoff's value was. It's not like we can guarantee that we can get a defensive defensemen and an offensive forward when Edler walks. It's just like Nashville's situation where they can't replace Suter, and now their team looks much more soft then before. Offense does start with solid defensive plays, but that defensive play needs to be able to throw out a breakout pass in order for the forwards to even start on the attack. Seriously whenever a contract comes up, then people just start ripping on the player, and saying how we don't need him. We need Edler. We don't need him to be our highest paid player, but 6 million is a perfect price for him. If Garrison is worth the money he got, then Edler is most definitely worth them 6 million i proposed.
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#277 The Big Luongo

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:55 PM

Detroit one of the best consistent teams, couldn't get a guy like Suter to ink with them. We have tried that forward on the point... his name was Samuelsson. If teams understand that we can't sign Edler, and we're letting him walk his value will be just a bit over what Ehrhoff's value was. It's not like we can guarantee that we can get a defensive defensemen and an offensive forward when Edler walks. It's just like Nashville's situation where they can't replace Suter, and now their team looks much more soft then before. Offense does start with solid defensive plays, but that defensive play needs to be able to throw out a breakout pass in order for the forwards to even start on the attack. Seriously whenever a contract comes up, then people just start ripping on the player, and saying how we don't need him. We need Edler. We don't need him to be our highest paid player, but 6 million is a perfect price for him. If Garrison is worth the money he got, then Edler is most definitely worth them 6 million i proposed.


This guy is right there's no way Edler is worth 6 he has far too many weaknesses.

You are obviously one of the big Edler fans who see the rare Edler highlight hit, the odd good pass or see him getting points with the Sedins 5 on 5 or the PP and think the guy is a hero lol.

Unfortunately there is far more to Edlers overall game and it all goes down from there.

Not tough enough never defended a teammate since being a canuck.
Not mentally tough enough takes being scored on and losing far too easy.
Not good enough skating laterally especially.
Not good at decision making at opposition blueline giving too many odd man rushes.
Not good at holding pucks in and very clumsy when it come to this.
Misses the net far too often.
Not enough goals playing on the #1 line.
With all the Sedin offensive zone possession and pp time and being set up on a platter by Burrows and the Sedins not enough goals.
Too slow to retrieve opposition dump ins and scared to take a hit so gives away possession.
Fails to clear front of the net at all never defends the goalie.
Lost far too often and takes wrong man in defensive zone.
Bad penalties at bad times.
Bad plus minus having all his 5 on 5 ice time with the Sedins a clear indicator in this circumstance his defensive game is severely lacking.

Edler is overrated and it would be a big mistake to pay him big long term and be stuck with him if he can never turn his game around.

Edler was by far the worst canuck in the kings series and unfortunately he plays brutal like that far more then many want or admit too see.

The teams best move would be to trade him.

The harsh truth is teams would never win Stanley Cups counting on defensemen like Edler.

Edited by The Big Luongo, 08 October 2012 - 11:59 PM.

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#278 SEAN HARNETT

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 02:26 AM

Detroit one of the best consistent teams, couldn't get a guy like Suter to ink with them. We have tried that forward on the point... his name was Samuelsson. If teams understand that we can't sign Edler, and we're letting him walk his value will be just a bit over what Ehrhoff's value was. It's not like we can guarantee that we can get a defensive defensemen and an offensive forward when Edler walks. It's just like Nashville's situation where they can't replace Suter, and now their team looks much more soft then before. Offense does start with solid defensive plays, but that defensive play needs to be able to throw out a breakout pass in order for the forwards to even start on the attack. Seriously whenever a contract comes up, then people just start ripping on the player, and saying how we don't need him. We need Edler. We don't need him to be our highest paid player, but 6 million is a perfect price for him. If Garrison is worth the money he got, then Edler is most definitely worth them 6 million i proposed.


The problem isnt getting Edler signed because he wants to be in Vancouver, it's getting him signed to a dollar figure and term in which is fair for him and the team. 6 Mil is a mil to much in my opinion. He brings it offensively but he's not great at the defensive aspects of the game. You don't pay elite level money to a guy with that many flaws in his game. My feeling is he is being offered the same as Garrison with money front loaded, but his agent is probably trying to get more. If that is the case, trade him. It's not like Edler is Shea Weber or anything.
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#279 Mike27

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 02:42 PM

The problem isnt getting Edler signed because he wants to be in Vancouver, it's getting him signed to a dollar figure and term in which is fair for him and the team. 6 Mil is a mil to much in my opinion. He brings it offensively but he's not great at the defensive aspects of the game. You don't pay elite level money to a guy with that many flaws in his game. My feeling is he is being offered the same as Garrison with money front loaded, but his agent is probably trying to get more. If that is the case, trade him. It's not like Edler is Shea Weber or anything.


Remind us of how much Shea Weber gets paid...........hint, a lot more than $6m.
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Trade Bieksa? Not even if it was a one for one deal for a guy like Ovechkin. And I am being serious. Linden53

#280 RonMexico

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 03:16 PM

This guy is right there's no way Edler is worth 6 he has far too many weaknesses.

You are obviously one of the big Edler fans who see the rare Edler highlight hit, the odd good pass or see him getting points with the Sedins 5 on 5 or the PP and think the guy is a hero lol.

Unfortunately there is far more to Edlers overall game and it all goes down from there.

Not tough enough never defended a teammate since being a canuck.
Not mentally tough enough takes being scored on and losing far too easy.
Not good enough skating laterally especially.
Not good at decision making at opposition blueline giving too many odd man rushes.
Not good at holding pucks in and very clumsy when it come to this.
Misses the net far too often.
Not enough goals playing on the #1 line.
With all the Sedin offensive zone possession and pp time and being set up on a platter by Burrows and the Sedins not enough goals.
Too slow to retrieve opposition dump ins and scared to take a hit so gives away possession.
Fails to clear front of the net at all never defends the goalie.
Lost far too often and takes wrong man in defensive zone.
Bad penalties at bad times.
Bad plus minus having all his 5 on 5 ice time with the Sedins a clear indicator in this circumstance his defensive game is severely lacking.

Edler is overrated and it would be a big mistake to pay him big long term and be stuck with him if he can never turn his game around.

Edler was by far the worst canuck in the kings series and unfortunately he plays brutal like that far more then many want or admit too see.

The teams best move would be to trade him.

The harsh truth is teams would never win Stanley Cups counting on defensemen like Edler.


We don't need him signed that badly anyways. Trade him for a forward and then plug in Tanev or whomever in the top 4 mix and I doubt this team misses a beat. Then bring up a prospect to fill the 6th defenceman spot. Too bad sentimental attachment clouds the minds of Canucks fanatics.
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#281 JHansenFan

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 06:18 PM

We don't need him signed that badly anyways. Trade him for a forward and then plug in Tanev or whomever in the top 4 mix and I doubt this team misses a beat. Then bring up a prospect to fill the 6th defenceman spot. Too bad sentimental attachment clouds the minds of Canucks fanatics.


Are you guys all the same account. I see two kids who both joined in July, and pretty much the only people siding with this kid on this argument. We lost Salo. If we lose Edler you do not want to see what our defence looks like. Garrison is still unproven, and without Campbell who knows if he's a 16 goal scorer... or a 5 goal scorer. The reason Edler plays out of position when pinching, is because Salo is the one covering for him. Just like when Doughty pinches to create some offence... Scuderi backs him up. Pinching isn't an exact science, and it really depends on luck. Edler has proven time and time again (past two seasons) that he can and he will put up 40+ points. Edler has not maxed out his defensive capabilities, and he will continue to develop them. Again Edler is not a RFA and if he wants to walk he will not be worth a good forward. He will be worth a 5th round draft pick exactly like Ehrhoff. If we could have Edler walk and we would instantly have a player like Matt Carle and a high draft pick... sign me up. This years draft is extraordinarily deep and the more picks them better. However you fail to understand that defensemen on the open market are worth a lot of value... especially of Edler's Caliber. This is what our defence realistically looks like if Edler walks, and we just had Salo walk this year.

Kevin Bieksa- Dan Hamhuis

-Very solid first pairing, no complaints about it. Defensively responsible and Bieksa adds a bit of punch.

Keith Ballard- Chris Tanev

-Not capable of much offence, but okay defensively. not capable of playing against the big guns, as much as I am a huge fan of Ballard's skating.

Andrew Alberts-Jason Garrison

-We have no clue how Garrison will perform without Campbell's passing. He scored 80% of his goals in the first half of the season, when people had no clue who he was. Andrew Alberts. Do i have to say more?

The hope that KC can be a offensive force in his first year is a pipe dream. The only players that can do that are very high round picks such as OEL, Doughty, Bogosian, Pietrangelo, and other such players. KC will be a good player looking at him at this stage of his career, but he will not be a offensive force his first year in. Our defence is weak and full of holes without Edler. You guys are misguided into thinking. Oh Edler can walk, and we'll use his cap money to sign another top six forward or a top 4 defensemen. There are no more of those out there, and if there were they would not take the 3.5million dollars to play in Vancouver. The same thing happened for Ehrhoff when his contract was running up, as well as Bieksa. People took sides and ripped on one to make a case for the other. We need Edler... all i can see from you guys right now is wanting to trade Edler. Edler has no value in terms of bargaining, not because he doesn't have skills, but the simple fact that his contract is up. Why give up a 5th round pick when you could potentially land him in free agency.
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#282 SEAN HARNETT

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 06:36 PM

Remind us of how much Shea Weber gets paid...........hint, a lot more than $6m.


Exactly, because he's worth it! Edler however isn't worth near that. If I'm correct, Shea Weber will carry a 7.5 cap hit, I would then leverage that to Edler being worth 5 to 5.5 tops. And even then I have a problem with Edler being paid that much. To many flaws in his game for my liking.
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#283 JHansenFan

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 06:43 PM

Exactly, because he's worth it! Edler however isn't worth near that. If I'm correct, Shea Weber will carry a 7.5 cap hit, I would then leverage that to Edler being worth 5 to 5.5 tops. And even then I have a problem with Edler being paid that much. To many flaws in his game for my liking.


The difference between getting paid 5 to 5.5m from 5.5-6m on a team like Vancouver... absolutely nothing, when our owners have given MG the full reign to spend to the extent of the cap hit. Defense is one of the harder positions to play next to goaltender in the NHL. Defensemen take a long time to develop, and Edler is just about to hit his prime (28-32). As some of you like to suggest what would we trade Edler for. He is a unrestricted free agent, and as a different team how would you justify to the fan base or owner....


Oh we traded for Alex Edler without knowing how much the cap ceiling will be, without knowing if there is a season this year, and without knowing if he'll resign with us or not and for how much.... oh also one more thing. We gave up a nice solid top six forward in exchange for him.

Edler is worth a 4th on the trade market, if they are going for his rights alone.. just like Ehrhoff. If we resign him he would be worth a lot more then a 4th round pick when he puts up 40 some what points. Even if he goes for a season low and puts up 30 points he would still be worth more then a 4th. We lost Salo, and we are replacing him with JG who we have no clue how he will do without Campbell setting him up. Funny story Shea Weber without Ryan Suter plays like absolute garbage. Have you ever heard of a thing called chemistry? That's what Edler has with the Sedins, and it's not like he's leeching off of their skill sets. If you have three snipers on a line who will actually pass the puck. Edler has the shot, Sedins set him up for the huge shot. It's a simple concept.
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#284 SEAN HARNETT

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 07:11 PM

Are you guys all the same account. I see two kids who both joined in July, and pretty much the only people siding with this kid on this argument. We lost Salo. If we lose Edler you do not want to see what our defence looks like. Garrison is still unproven, and without Campbell who knows if he's a 16 goal scorer... or a 5 goal scorer. The reason Edler plays out of position when pinching, is because Salo is the one covering for him. Just like when Doughty pinches to create some offence... Scuderi backs him up. Pinching isn't an exact science, and it really depends on luck. Edler has proven time and time again (past two seasons) that he can and he will put up 40+ points. Edler has not maxed out his defensive capabilities, and he will continue to develop them. Again Edler is not a RFA and if he wants to walk he will not be worth a good forward. He will be worth a 5th round draft pick exactly like Ehrhoff. If we could have Edler walk and we would instantly have a player like Matt Carle and a high draft pick... sign me up. This years draft is extraordinarily deep and the more picks them better. However you fail to understand that defensemen on the open market are worth a lot of value... especially of Edler's Caliber. This is what our defence realistically looks like if Edler walks, and we just had Salo walk this year.

Kevin Bieksa- Dan Hamhuis

-Very solid first pairing, no complaints about it. Defensively responsible and Bieksa adds a bit of punch.

Keith Ballard- Chris Tanev

-Not capable of much offence, but okay defensively. not capable of playing against the big guns, as much as I am a huge fan of Ballard's skating.

Andrew Alberts-Jason Garrison

-We have no clue how Garrison will perform without Campbell's passing. He scored 80% of his goals in the first half of the season, when people had no clue who he was. Andrew Alberts. Do i have to say more?

The hope that KC can be a offensive force in his first year is a pipe dream. The only players that can do that are very high round picks such as OEL, Doughty, Bogosian, Pietrangelo, and other such players. KC will be a good player looking at him at this stage of his career, but he will not be a offensive force his first year in. Our defence is weak and full of holes without Edler. You guys are misguided into thinking. Oh Edler can walk, and we'll use his cap money to sign another top six forward or a top 4 defensemen. There are no more of those out there, and if there were they would not take the 3.5million dollars to play in Vancouver. The same thing happened for Ehrhoff when his contract was running up, as well as Bieksa. People took sides and ripped on one to make a case for the other. We need Edler... all i can see from you guys right now is wanting to trade Edler. Edler has no value in terms of bargaining, not because he doesn't have skills, but the simple fact that his contract is up. Why give up a 5th round pick when you could potentially land him in free agency.


I'm sure Gillis has something in the works that would fill the void. I for one am sick of having so many puck movers and not enough grit on the back end. I like Edler, but not at what some have said they think he's worth. If the Canucks can get a good return for Luongo, then Edler may become expendable anyway. Tuff decision's have to be made when you operate under a cap system. In order to have depth at every position, players need to take a little less then market value. If Edler thinks he is worth more, then trade him now while he has a year remaining on his deal and get something of value in return.
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#285 JHansenFan

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 07:23 PM

I'm sure Gillis has something in the works that would fill the void. I for one am sick of having so many puck movers and not enough grit on the back end. I like Edler, but not at what some have said they think he's worth. If the Canucks can get a good return for Luongo, then Edler may become expendable anyway. Tuff decision's have to be made when you operate under a cap system. In order to have depth at every position, players need to take a little less then market value. If Edler thinks he is worth more, then trade him now while he has a year remaining on his deal and get something of value in return.


Did i just hear you correctly? Your sick of having too many mobile defensemen? Would you prefer us go back to a Dave Nonis style of team, where you trade a bunch of second and third round picks for plugs who can fight, and take dumb penalties? Edler isn't known for his aggressive style of play, just like Lidstrom isn't known for being an aggressive defensemen. We won't be getting that much in terms for a return for Luongo, and I would consider ourselves crooks if we got away with Bjustad from Florida. The only way we can fill that void with someone as capable as Edler would be if KC stepped up and had a monster year in the NHL. (Jake Gardiner had 30 points, and he's in a whole different league then KC). We don't have a problem with our cap hit at the moment, especially if we trade Luongo. This isn't a tough decision, it's more we have the money to resign Edler, but kids who don't understand the game of hockey believe in trading whoever's not under contract, for whatever garbage we can pick up.

Just for emphasis: You are sick of having a mobile defence group that can move the puck up? haha that just destroys all credibility right there. Maybe we should trade for Mike Komisarek, and get Dylan McIlrath from the NYR. Oh boy their regretting not taking Fowler now. Maybe if we're really lucky we could get Matt Carkner too !
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#286 eretz canucks

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 07:45 PM

Good points all around
As nucks fans, I think we are just tired of not having a number 1 d man who does it all. Edler wants to be payed like a number 1 d man, and yes his stats are great, but he is often on our second unit with Salo.She has NOT been a consistent top pairing guy.
The problem is he teases us and himself. He thinks he can be a number 1 d man but he lacks consistency and knows it.
Gillis called him a "Norris" candidate a few months back... When I first heard that I thought he maybe pumpin the old tires to get ppl interested in trading for him... We will see

Edited by eretz canucks, 09 October 2012 - 09:33 PM.

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#287 Mike27

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:09 PM

Exactly, because he's worth it! Edler however isn't worth near that. If I'm correct, Shea Weber will carry a 7.5 cap hit, I would then leverage that to Edler being worth 5 to 5.5 tops. And even then I have a problem with Edler being paid that much. To many flaws in his game for my liking.


From the National PostShea Weber, Philadelphia (if Nashville does not match)14 years, $110-millionThere are two things that immediately stand out when looking at the offer sheet that Weber signed with the Flyers. The first is that he will receive US$68-million in signing bonuses, which would not be affected if the new CBA features salary rollbacks. The second is that he will earn US$56-million — more than half the total amount — in the first four years and only US$6-million in the final four years. Like Parise and Suter, Weber's deal expires when he turns 40.2012-13: $1-million, plus $13-million signing bonus2013-14: $1-million, plus $13-million signing bonus2014-15: $1-million, plus $13-million signing bonus2015-16: $1-million, plus $13-million signing bonus2016-17: $4-million, plus $8-million signing bonus2017-18: $4-million, plus $8-million signing bonus2018-19: $6-million2019-20: $6-million2020-21: $6-million2021-22: $6-million2022-23: $3-million2023-24: $1-million2024-25: $1-million2025-26: $1-millionWeber has a huge contract.  His cap hit is only $7.86m per year, but Nashville (or someone, will be paying out $56m in the next four years, and $12m for the two years after that.  His contract goes for 14 years!Don't compare Edler to Weber, anyone with a brain knows he is not as good as Weber.  He won't get paid anything close to Weber either.  Edler is a very good dman.  He will get, and deserve, a very good contract.  He is not the best dman in the NHL, but he is certainly a valuable commodity.Sorry, tried to edit to make the format easier to read, but the editor wasn't working for me.

Edited by Mike27, 09 October 2012 - 09:23 PM.

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Trade Bieksa? Not even if it was a one for one deal for a guy like Ovechkin. And I am being serious. Linden53

#288 JHansenFan

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 12:06 AM

Shea Weber's annual salary if we say he realistically plays until he's 35 is roughly 9.5 million dollars. Edler won't get anywhere near that figure, just like Luongo most likely will not play until he's 40. You can't talk about Shea Weber as a 7.8 million dollar cap hit, since it's just simply cap circumventing. Edler is comparable to Weber. He's big, has mobility, and can put up points. The thing is that Weber logs minutes, but that is why he's paid the big numbers. Edler won't get anywhere close to 9.5 million dollars. 6 million is a fair number for a 49 point (i believe) offensive defensemen who has chemistry with the Sedin's. How are you going to prove that he won't get the same numbers with the Sedins. Also remember Edler was one of our defensemen who play the PK, PP, Even Strength. Simply put he is an all around defensemen. When I see the list you put together of things that Edler suck at, I see this as your thought process


Damn I don't have solid evidence, other then my personal opinion. I know... I'll just make a list of things that defensemen do... such as move laterally...miss the net with his shot, oh wait Sedin's want that slap pass off the boards.... eh? I'll just throw that in there, maybe he won't notice. Well also defensemen are supposed to be able to pinch, so we'll just say Edler can't do that either. Oh and another hint

typing every sentence....

like this....

doesn't make it seem....

like you have more....

points.....

it's just annoying to read.....

one sentence is not a paragraph.....

thanks.....
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#289 SEAN HARNETT

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:44 AM

Did i just hear you correctly? Your sick of having too many mobile defensemen? Would you prefer us go back to a Dave Nonis style of team, where you trade a bunch of second and third round picks for plugs who can fight, and take dumb penalties? Edler isn't known for his aggressive style of play, just like Lidstrom isn't known for being an aggressive defensemen. We won't be getting that much in terms for a return for Luongo, and I would consider ourselves crooks if we got away with Bjustad from Florida. The only way we can fill that void with someone as capable as Edler would be if KC stepped up and had a monster year in the NHL. (Jake Gardiner had 30 points, and he's in a whole different league then KC). We don't have a problem with our cap hit at the moment, especially if we trade Luongo. This isn't a tough decision, it's more we have the money to resign Edler, but kids who don't understand the game of hockey believe in trading whoever's not under contract, for whatever garbage we can pick up.

Just for emphasis: You are sick of having a mobile defence group that can move the puck up? haha that just destroys all credibility right there. Maybe we should trade for Mike Komisarek, and get Dylan McIlrath from the NYR. Oh boy their regretting not taking Fowler now. Maybe if we're really lucky we could get Matt Carkner too !


Dont think for one minute that I don't understand the game of hockey when the points I've made are pretty bang on. I never said get rid of all the puck movers, but it's clear the Canucks do need an upgrade in the grit department on the back end. Garrison brings an element of grit as well as skill, so that is a step in the right direction. Edler can lay the hits but will tuck his tale and run when it comes to other physical aspects of the game. Look at L.A and Boston's defence, a couple puck movers with gritty stay at home types that hit and block shots, aswell as clog up the passing lanes. Edler lacks in the defensive department of the game, and that is why I feel he isn't worth the big money. Shea Weber is a great all around D who excels at all aspects of the game, and can log 28 minutes a game. Edler just isnt worth it in my opinion. 5 mil or trade him.

He is worth more then a 4th rounder as he has one year remaining on his contract. If he were an up coming free agent, then yes, the value would drop. For what it's worth, I like Edler, but for top end money I think the Canucks can do better.
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#290 RonMexico

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 11:04 AM

Are you guys all the same account. I see two kids who both joined in July, and pretty much the only people siding with this kid on this argument. We lost Salo. If we lose Edler you do not want to see what our defence looks like. Garrison is still unproven, and without Campbell who knows if he's a 16 goal scorer... or a 5 goal scorer. The reason Edler plays out of position when pinching, is because Salo is the one covering for him. Just like when Doughty pinches to create some offence... Scuderi backs him up. Pinching isn't an exact science, and it really depends on luck. Edler has proven time and time again (past two seasons) that he can and he will put up 40+ points. Edler has not maxed out his defensive capabilities, and he will continue to develop them. Again Edler is not a RFA and if he wants to walk he will not be worth a good forward. He will be worth a 5th round draft pick exactly like Ehrhoff. If we could have Edler walk and we would instantly have a player like Matt Carle and a high draft pick... sign me up. This years draft is extraordinarily deep and the more picks them better. However you fail to understand that defensemen on the open market are worth a lot of value... especially of Edler's Caliber. This is what our defence realistically looks like if Edler walks, and we just had Salo walk this year.

Kevin Bieksa- Dan Hamhuis

-Very solid first pairing, no complaints about it. Defensively responsible and Bieksa adds a bit of punch.

Keith Ballard- Chris Tanev

-Not capable of much offence, but okay defensively. not capable of playing against the big guns, as much as I am a huge fan of Ballard's skating.

Andrew Alberts-Jason Garrison

-We have no clue how Garrison will perform without Campbell's passing. He scored 80% of his goals in the first half of the season, when people had no clue who he was. Andrew Alberts. Do i have to say more?

The hope that KC can be a offensive force in his first year is a pipe dream. The only players that can do that are very high round picks such as OEL, Doughty, Bogosian, Pietrangelo, and other such players. KC will be a good player looking at him at this stage of his career, but he will not be a offensive force his first year in. Our defence is weak and full of holes without Edler. You guys are misguided into thinking. Oh Edler can walk, and we'll use his cap money to sign another top six forward or a top 4 defensemen. There are no more of those out there, and if there were they would not take the 3.5million dollars to play in Vancouver. The same thing happened for Ehrhoff when his contract was running up, as well as Bieksa. People took sides and ripped on one to make a case for the other. We need Edler... all i can see from you guys right now is wanting to trade Edler. Edler has no value in terms of bargaining, not because he doesn't have skills, but the simple fact that his contract is up. Why give up a 5th round pick when you could potentially land him in free agency.


All your points are based on knowing information that you, or anyone else, does not know. You can sit here all day and predict immediate doom if Edler is traded but how do you know? Players adapt and others step up. It's how winning teams maintain the ability to win. You are correct to assume his value appears low due to an expiring contract but again you don't know how other GMs view him in terms of value. This team needs a top end forward and if it cost us Edler to get one, I hope MG would make it happen. BTW, I only have one account.
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#291 JHansenFan

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 11:54 AM

@RonMexico

So what your saying if this lockout runs the year, and Edler becomes a UFA his value is still a top end forward. Either you seriously overestimated the value of our players, or you seriously underestimated the IQ of NHL General managers. We won two straight Presidents Trophies, so why would we look to mess with a great thing. Now I am too lazy to look up which of you said this, but how did you judge Edler to be the worst player on the Canucks roster in the LA Series. We scored eight goals in five games... and as points previous mention, we didn't have Daniel Sedin our leading scorer. It's like with Detroit, you take out a player like Datsyuk, Lidstrom, or even Zetterberg and the entire team confidence suffers and all the players play worse. It's all about the chemistry, and losing Edler, as well as Salo would upset the balance of our defence group. Your proposing we trade for a top tier forward for Edler? Well what about our defence, do you really think Tanev will play a top four role with ease? Your asking us to plug a player like Andrew Alberts, who yes is big, but has trouble skating forward let alone backwards into our group. If Edler is a pending UFA all GM's are trading for are his rights. If any GM was that bad at running a team, then they wouldn't be running a fantasy pool roster, let alone an NHL team. To end off with this interesting note... On a top tier team would not losing 45 points off a blue line and a veteran defensemen be potentially devastating? Every team hopes that they have prospects that can plug the gap, and not drop off too much in production.. but how many teams actually can pull that off? One final question.... I view Aaron Rome to be worth around 1 million dollars per year, are you saying one of the thirty GM's are stupid enough to say... well he has no hands, or ability but I think his value is a solid 5 million dollars a year. This isn't the Entry draft these are players who already had a few years to prove themselves in the NHL.

@SeanHarnett

You can't up front compare our defence group to another team, just because you like how their defence group works. Our defence is based on all six guys making up close to equal time. Hamhuis-Bieksa (20 minutes) Edler-Salo(24 minutes) Ballard-Tanev(16 minutes) and so forth. We don't have a Shea Weber that can suck up about half the game, and so I'm not proposing to offer Edler a huge contract. I'm proposing we offer him a solid six million, and if you want to compare him to Shea Weber's contract? If you take out the lower cap hits when he realistically will not be able to play and just look at the first 9 years until he's 35 his cap hit is a massive 9.8 million dollars. Even if you add in two more years his cap hit is still around 9 million dollars a season. That's cap circumvention, and we all know it. Also you propose the Canucks can do better, who do you think we can get for 3.5 million dollars. That's all that Edler's cap hit is right now, and that's all we have to sign him with. We have those shutdown defensemen, and their names are Hamhuis and Bieksa. I am not predicting immediate doom, I am predicting that we won't be as dangerous of a team when we lose Edler, since his 40+ points per year will be gone off the blue line. If we had someone like Ryan Ellis, your prediction of someone filling the void would be perfectly valid, but as we don't unfortunately your prediction doesn't hold much in terms of having something to justify it on.
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#292 JHansenFan

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 12:01 PM

Something you should know is that when making an argument you should come up with solid facts. I've come up with Edler's points, shots on goal, his PP point production, salaries that are comparable, and a prediction based on those facts. What I see from you guys are personal opinions, statements that have no physical backing, and just a general lack of understanding for the game of hockey.

Seriously...
1) Don't worry guys we lose 45+ points off our back end, but we're the same team.
2) Don't worry guys GM's will give us a top tier forward for Edler whose contract is expiring.
3) KC can step in and get 45 points and replace Edler. (you do know it took edler a couple of years to develop)
4) Edler isn't Shea Weber.... (seriously no one ever even said Edler was Weber)
5) You don't know how other GM's will view the value of an expiring contract with Edler, but I know that MG has something to fill Edler's void. Are you MG's pen pal?
6) Naming a bunch of things defensemen do and saying Edler sucks at all of them.
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#293 RonMexico

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 02:21 PM

@RonMexico

So what your saying if this lockout runs the year, and Edler becomes a UFA his value is still a top end forward. Either you seriously overestimated the value of our players, or you seriously underestimated the IQ of NHL General managers. We won two straight Presidents Trophies, so why would we look to mess with a great thing. Now I am too lazy to look up which of you said this, but how did you judge Edler to be the worst player on the Canucks roster in the LA Series. We scored eight goals in five games... and as points previous mention, we didn't have Daniel Sedin our leading scorer. It's like with Detroit, you take out a player like Datsyuk, Lidstrom, or even Zetterberg and the entire team confidence suffers and all the players play worse. It's all about the chemistry, and losing Edler, as well as Salo would upset the balance of our defence group. Your proposing we trade for a top tier forward for Edler? Well what about our defence, do you really think Tanev will play a top four role with ease? Your asking us to plug a player like Andrew Alberts, who yes is big, but has trouble skating forward let alone backwards into our group. If Edler is a pending UFA all GM's are trading for are his rights. If any GM was that bad at running a team, then they wouldn't be running a fantasy pool roster, let alone an NHL team. To end off with this interesting note... On a top tier team would not losing 45 points off a blue line and a veteran defensemen be potentially devastating? Every team hopes that they have prospects that can plug the gap, and not drop off too much in production.. but how many teams actually can pull that off? One final question.... I view Aaron Rome to be worth around 1 million dollars per year, are you saying one of the thirty GM's are stupid enough to say... well he has no hands, or ability but I think his value is a solid 5 million dollars a year. This isn't the Entry draft these are players who already had a few years to prove themselves in the NHL.

@SeanHarnett

You can't up front compare our defence group to another team, just because you like how their defence group works. Our defence is based on all six guys making up close to equal time. Hamhuis-Bieksa (20 minutes) Edler-Salo(24 minutes) Ballard-Tanev(16 minutes) and so forth. We don't have a Shea Weber that can suck up about half the game, and so I'm not proposing to offer Edler a huge contract. I'm proposing we offer him a solid six million, and if you want to compare him to Shea Weber's contract? If you take out the lower cap hits when he realistically will not be able to play and just look at the first 9 years until he's 35 his cap hit is a massive 9.8 million dollars. Even if you add in two more years his cap hit is still around 9 million dollars a season. That's cap circumvention, and we all know it. Also you propose the Canucks can do better, who do you think we can get for 3.5 million dollars. That's all that Edler's cap hit is right now, and that's all we have to sign him with. We have those shutdown defensemen, and their names are Hamhuis and Bieksa. I am not predicting immediate doom, I am predicting that we won't be as dangerous of a  team when we lose Edler, since his 40+ points per year will be gone off the blue line. If we had someone like Ryan Ellis, your prediction of someone filling the void would be perfectly valid, but as we don't unfortunately your prediction doesn't hold much in terms of having something to justify it on.


I didn't blame Edler for anything in any post. I just view him as an expendable commodity. We will never know if any of this team's younger defencemen could fill the void because there are a ton of expensive contracts in front of them. At some point you make room and give them a chance.
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#294 RonMexico

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 02:43 PM

Something you should know is that when making an argument you should come up with solid facts. I've come up with Edler's points, shots on goal, his PP point production, salaries that are comparable, and a prediction based on those facts. What I see from you guys are personal opinions, statements that have no physical backing, and just a general lack of understanding for the game of hockey.

Seriously...
1) Don't worry guys we lose 45+ points off our back end, but we're the same team.
2) Don't worry guys GM's will give us a top tier forward for Edler whose contract is expiring.
3) KC can step in and get 45 points and replace Edler. (you do know it took edler a couple of years to develop)
4) Edler isn't Shea Weber.... (seriously no one ever even said Edler was Weber)
5) You don't know how other GM's will view the value of an expiring contract with Edler, but I know that MG has something to fill Edler's void. Are you MG's pen pal?
6) Naming a bunch of things defensemen do and saying Edler sucks at all of them.


Who cares if you use 'facts' to come to an outlandish prediction. I use common sense. Here is what trading Edler for a solid forward does: 1) Soldifies the 2nd line so plummers like Hansen do not have to play a key scoring role not suited for them, 2) depending on the slary of the player coming back we might get some cap relief, 3) gives a young player a chance to step up and 4) gives me and other knowledgable fans hope that MG isn't blowing smoke up our rear ends that they are commited to do whatever it takes to win even if it means a shake-up to the 'core'. I would rather try to improve the team rather than stay the course with a team that is good, but not good enough.
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#295 JHansenFan

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 02:58 PM

If we could actually get value for Edler in a form of a top young forward I am very much on board. However with this lockout's end in sight then Edler's contract is burning up as far as i understand. Without a NHL season all we're trading in terms of him is his rights. Lets put it this way would you trade one of our top forwards ie. Alex Burrows for a "chance" to sign a defender like Matt Carle. No we cannot get a top forward for him, and no we cannot plug in the hole that him leaving would create. If you don't want to read all that I'll sum it up.

Without the NHL actually playing, all Edler is worth right now are simply the rights, so that teams can begin negotiating with him. In no way shape or form is that worth a solid forward. You don't seem to be able to get that through your thick skull, and I can't tell you this anymore clear then I am telling you now. EDLER IS NOT RESIGNED AND IF WE TRADE HIM ALL THE OTHER TEAM GETS IS HIS RIGHTS IF THERE IS NO SEASON THIS YEAR. If you pair that with how little we know about the cap situation then you make it a pretty shady place for any General Manager to make a deal for. Edler's rights alone will not land you a good young forward. Maybe Sidney Crosby's rights would, but definitely not Edler. Edler is most valuable to us if he is signed and used as our top PP QB. Hansen doesn't play the second line, and he plays a more 3rd and 4th line role. When have you ever seen Hansen out on the PP as a regular. Let me get this clear to you... HANSEN DOES NOT PLAY A SCORING ROLE. I would agree with giving the young players a chance to step up, if we were a team like the Oilers. Any successful team over a long period of time using the example of Detroit gives their players a handful of years to develop in the minors, and then force them to earn their spot. It's not shaking up the core if you lose Edler for nothing, since no GM's will trade for a players rights in the current conditions. Again as long as this lockout wears on Edler's year on his contract is burning up. I don't believe you get how significant that is. Now to clarify I am using facts to justify my prediction, and your using common sense.

Oh yeah Boss don't worry you measured how much weight this structure can hold using trusted formula's, but you know i just eyeballed and gave it a ball park figure. No worries my prediction is obviously more justifiable then yours. Thanks ! Good luck selling that one dude.

Now Edler as an expendable commodity. Why not waive Ballard (as much as I love him), or make Tanev work for his spot. Edler has had two consecutive 45+ point seasons, but you know prospects deserve to be given chances without earning them. We need to adapt the Detroit model, and make young players earn their spots. Edler is expendable I agree, but we need fair return for him. Something we will not get since GM's will treat getting him, as getting an extra couple months to negotiate with him for salary.
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#296 RonMexico

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 03:49 PM

Oh oh look at me! I know everything, you know nothing! I'll make up scenarios that have nothing to do with the topic just to try to make you look like an idiot. Here is an off topic jab for you. You must really score a lot of tail with your obvious talent of being an obnoxious know-it-all. Keep it up. I bet it is working for you. Anyways back to the topic. It's not a given that they lose a year off their contracts. They did last time but that is up for negotiation depending on how long this lock out lasts. So until that is decided, we just don't know what his contract status is. I still want to trade him regardless.
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#297 The Big Luongo

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 04:00 PM

Wow jhensenfan you have a lot of time on your hands lol
Stop comparing Edler to Lidstrom already lol they are not even close in calibar. Edler is nowhere near and likely will never be the defensive defensmen Lidstrom was and if he was even close i might be willing to put up with his no grit soft ho hum play! The mentioning of Lidstrom does not help your arguement one bit.
Another point is since your all about Edlers heavily Sedin line aided stats what about Edlers lousy plus minus compared to our other dmen? Oh let me guess bad luck and a overrated stat excuse.
Btw i hate to break it to you but theres not just a few people saying Edler defensive and physical game is weak look through this thread there's a lot. We just don' t look at his ample time on the PP time and 5 on 5 time with the top players in the NHL the Sedins and the odd crunching hit and proclaim he is great like some of you Edler lovers do. Like the other guy said common sense has to come into play buddy.

Edited by The Big Luongo, 10 October 2012 - 04:14 PM.

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#298 JHansenFan

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 04:09 PM

I simply made a different scenario using the words you said, to poke holes in your flawed logic. You used common sense? Yeah that really beats using facts to come up with a prediction that isn't outlandish. You lose two NHL defensemen, both of who are offensive, and you try to replace them with younger prospects... equals a worse team. Very simple logic. They did it last time, so why wouldn't General Managers treat it like it would happen again. Edler is a good NHL defensemen, and will be the best on the FA market if he hits there. We need to sign him now, for a good salary, and keep him up long term. Do you know how teams are successful long term. They don't go out and sign big FA's they develop talent and keep it, we developed Bieksa and Edler. We need to keep them as our home grown talent, and develop players like KC and Yann Sauve. I never said i knew it all, however I will say this fact plain and true. Although your opinions can be expressed as well as mine, the simple fact is that keeping a Blueliner capable of 45 points is in the Canucks best interest. I don't need to resort to "common sense" to win a debate. Winning debates is using facts, and I did exactly that. Thanks.

@TheBigLuongo

I have a lot of time on my hand. No I really don't, but since I know that I am correct in this debate, retorts come easy to me. I never compared Edler to Lidstrom, but people do think that Edler can develop into a Lidstrom like player. His +/- can easily be explained by his constant PK, and the Sedin's rarely PK. I never proclaimed Edler was Lidstrom/Weber like, but i did say he was a good defensemen that still needs to refine his game. As i posted in my above comment to the other outstanding gentlemen, we need to keep players that we develop. Teams don't win cups through trading, and free agency alone. Perhaps Edler could use more consistency, but don't ever dare say that Edler can't be physical enough. Just his 45+ points a year means that he is such a asset to this team, and will continue to be as long as he has chemistry with the first power play unit.

What you guys are proposing is simply that we drop Edler and let him walk, and use the 3.5 million dollars in cap space we gain, to resign another defensemen. There are no defenders on the market that will take that money to come to Vancouver. Signing Edler at a raise he deserves is perfectly reasonable, as he has put up some good offensive numbers. Getting a top forward for him is a pipe dream, and please just stop mentioning getting one. Asking prospects to step into Edler's shoes or even asking Tanev to do it is unrealistic.
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#299 SEAN HARNETT

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 07:22 PM

I simply made a different scenario using the words you said, to poke holes in your flawed logic. You used common sense? Yeah that really beats using facts to come up with a prediction that isn't outlandish. You lose two NHL defensemen, both of who are offensive, and you try to replace them with younger prospects... equals a worse team. Very simple logic. They did it last time, so why wouldn't General Managers treat it like it would happen again. Edler is a good NHL defensemen, and will be the best on the FA market if he hits there. We need to sign him now, for a good salary, and keep him up long term. Do you know how teams are successful long term. They don't go out and sign big FA's they develop talent and keep it, we developed Bieksa and Edler. We need to keep them as our home grown talent, and develop players like KC and Yann Sauve. I never said i knew it all, however I will say this fact plain and true. Although your opinions can be expressed as well as mine, the simple fact is that keeping a Blueliner capable of 45 points is in the Canucks best interest. I don't need to resort to "common sense" to win a debate. Winning debates is using facts, and I did exactly that. Thanks.

@TheBigLuongo

I have a lot of time on my hand. No I really don't, but since I know that I am correct in this debate, retorts come easy to me. I never compared Edler to Lidstrom, but people do think that Edler can develop into a Lidstrom like player. His +/- can easily be explained by his constant PK, and the Sedin's rarely PK. I never proclaimed Edler was Lidstrom/Weber like, but i did say he was a good defensemen that still needs to refine his game. As i posted in my above comment to the other outstanding gentlemen, we need to keep players that we develop. Teams don't win cups through trading, and free agency alone. Perhaps Edler could use more consistency, but don't ever dare say that Edler can't be physical enough. Just his 45+ points a year means that he is such a asset to this team, and will continue to be as long as he has chemistry with the first power play unit.

What you guys are proposing is simply that we drop Edler and let him walk, and use the 3.5 million dollars in cap space we gain, to resign another defensemen. There are no defenders on the market that will take that money to come to Vancouver. Signing Edler at a raise he deserves is perfectly reasonable, as he has put up some good offensive numbers. Getting a top forward for him is a pipe dream, and please just stop mentioning getting one. Asking prospects to step into Edler's shoes or even asking Tanev to do it is unrealistic.


Nope, what I propose is the Canucks trading Edler if he doesn't want to agree to what the Canucks are offering him. Like I said before, I like Edler, just not at 6 mil. I think the Canucks can use that 6 mil and do better whether it through trade or free agency. Edler does alot of things well, defending isn't one of them......For a guy who puts up such high points, why is his +/- so weak? For Six mil, you better be the best all round D on our team, and at this point he isn't. Also giving him 6 Mil would almost make him the highest paid player on the team, is that something the organization is ready to do? You cant give a guy 6 mil and hope he lives up to his potential. If the Canucks package him with Luongo perhaps could yield a huge return and save cap space at the same time, who knows! I think Edler should take 5 at the most if He wants to stay in Vancouver, if not, trade him.
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#300 JHansenFan

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 09:08 PM

Nope, what I propose is the Canucks trading Edler if he doesn't want to agree to what the Canucks are offering him. Like I said before, I like Edler, just not at 6 mil. I think the Canucks can use that 6 mil and do better whether it through trade or free agency. Edler does alot of things well, defending isn't one of them......For a guy who puts up such high points, why is his +/- so weak? For Six mil, you better be the best all round D on our team, and at this point he isn't. Also giving him 6 Mil would almost make him the highest paid player on the team, is that something the organization is ready to do? You cant give a guy 6 mil and hope he lives up to his potential. If the Canucks package him with Luongo perhaps could yield a huge return and save cap space at the same time, who knows! I think Edler should take 5 at the most if He wants to stay in Vancouver, if not, trade him.


The Sedin's both are getting 6.1 million dollars each year. Since we have no real salary cap number i'd like to propose we use the 70.2 cap number for the point I am about to make. The Sedin's when they resigned in 2009 were given 6.1 million dollars out of a 56.8/56.7 million dollar cap hit. That's nearly 11% of our team, and they very much deserve that. Now the cap hit is 70.2 million dollars, and giving Edler 6 million wouldn't even meet 9% of our total salary. As one of our best defensemen in the offensive zone in most nights, and a good defensemen in our own end I believe he is worth that 8.55% of our cap hit. Why do you think the extra 14 million dollars of the cap hit rising matters? It's because teams are committing more % of their money towards you. If the cap hit was 40 million dollars for each team then committing 6 million would be a massive commitment. The cap hit at this very moment is 70.2 million dollars. I don't understand why canucks fans constantly think that players that we don't want will yield great value from other teams.

Luongo (who i have stopped being a fan of since three years ago) has issues in big games in the playoffs. It's either he shuts the door and lets in nothing, and puts in a goal or he lets in a dozen goals. We have no need for him, as much as MG might want to play it off, but we have Schneider who is our starter. Teams are viewing Luongo (in my opinion) as a good goaltender whose on the decline, and that they have to make massive financial commitments to. Perhaps you are right and if we package him we could get something like Nick Bjustad out of Florida, as well as a proven forward, but with Florida not willing to part with any of those prospects, adding Edler who may or may not have a year left on his contract (depending on how it goes with the lockout ruling) would just be a rather bad move on Florida's part. Edler has the most value to us resigned and as one of contributing core.

Bieksa- 4.6/64.3 million in cap space (0.0715%)
Hamhuis- 4.5/59.4 million in cap space(0.0758%)
Garrison- 4.5/70.2 million in cap space(0.0641%)
Edler(proposed- 6/70.2 million in cap space(0.0855%)

If you really look at the numbers, and when players signed you can see that the difference in the % of the cap space they take up is pretty close to each other. If Edler takes a hometown discount fantastic.... if he takes 6 million.. that's great too he can easily get just under Ryan Suter money out on FA. I'd really like to see some solid statistics. Your +/- is one, but i'd really like you to take this debate in a more factual way, rather then a ... well i think this and this, and if we package him for this and this and what not.
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