Sharpshooter Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 In that case, a Muslim marrying a 6 year old today and consummating that marriage at 9 in order to follow his example would be doing something good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VICanucksfan5551 Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 And once more from the top: "With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 I tend to disagree with that premise, actually. Not that religion can't make good people do evil things, but that it hardly has a monopoly on it. Extreme nationalism, herd mentality, ignorance, self-preservation, etc. all can make good people do evil things in the complete absence of religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super19 Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 In that case, a Muslim marrying a 6 year old today and consummating that marriage at 9 in order to follow his example would be doing something good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super19 Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 The monopolization wasn't offered....just the qualification that religion was required. Although, the term martyr is a primarily a religious one. Do you hear of the term martyr given for self-sacrifice because of nationalism? What is 'martyrdom' generally associated with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 That's a really good question, honestly. I don't think it's upon a Muslim to reinact the Prophet's life as much as it is to follow his examples, because we won't be able to. Just because Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was able to marry Aisha (ra) at age 6, doesn't mean I marry a girl named Aisha at age 6. Following his example would be getting married to a spouse when both parties are able, and to maintain a healthy relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Martyrdom is generally associated with religion, but for self-sacrifice because of nationalism, one can refer to Kamikaze Pilots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VICanucksfan5551 Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 The monopolization wasn't offered....just the qualification that religion was required. Although, the term martyr is a primarily a religious one. Do you hear of the term martyr given for self-sacrifice because of nationalism? What is 'martyrdom' generally associated with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VICanucksfan5551 Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 That's a really good question, honestly. I don't think it's upon a Muslim to reinact the Prophet's life as much as it is to follow his examples, because we won't be able to. Just because Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was able to marry Aisha (ra) at age 6, doesn't mean I marry a girl named Aisha at age 6. Following his example would be getting married to a spouse when both parties are able, and to maintain a healthy relationship. BTW, I'll ask this question around, so if I said anything wrong in terms of my religion I'll change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super19 Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 I hope you realize how absurdly stupid that sounds. Re-enacting his life would be as close as possible to following his example. To re-enact is to follow in one's footsteps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 The statement definitely implies that religion is the only thing that will make a good person do evil things. Primarily religious, yes, but not exclusively. Anyone can be a martyr for any cause. For example, Giordano Bruno is known as a "martyr of science". He was burned at the stake by the Roman Inquisition because he refused to renounce his heliocentric views and his opposition to Catholicism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VICanucksfan5551 Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 No, it doesn't. It's not a statement that has exclusionary properties, in that it exludes any other possibilities....again, primarily...not exclusively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 The statement definitely implies that religion is the only thing that will make a good person do evil things. Primarily religious, yes, but not exclusively. Anyone can be a martyr for any cause. For example, Giordano Bruno is known as a "martyr of science". He was burned at the stake by the Roman Inquisition because he refused to renounce his heliocentric views and his opposition to Catholicism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 "But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion" I don't see how that can have any other meanings other than "only religion can make good people do evil things". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super19 Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 'Kamikaze' also has religious connotations. See, that's why an education is a very good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Did Kamikaze Pilots kill in the name of religion or in hopes of being dutiful to their country and nationalistic cause? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VICanucksfan5551 Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Just because people use a 'turn of phrase' doesn't mean that the definition of the main word or phrase is met to the definition's primary meaning. There is no 'martyr' of science, because science is neither a religious ideal nor a principle or ideal, but is rather "knowledge or a system of knowledge covering general truths or the operation of general laws especially as obtained and tested through the scientific method and concerned with the physical world and its phenomena". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jai604 Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 To re-enact his life in that regard, I would need a recommendation from a woman, an angelic induced dream, a willing 6 year old akin to Aisha (ra), I would need myself to be perfect enough to be a Prophet, amongst other conditions. That's not what it means. His example was to marry - marriage is a sunnah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 You asked if the term was given for non-religious examples, not if it met your definition of martyrdom. Regardless of whether or not science is the proper attribution to his martyrdom, Giordano Bruno definitely sacrificed himself for non-religious ideals (or, more specifically, opposing a religion). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VICanucksfan5551 Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Did he say say anywhere that it 'only' takes religion? Which word can you point to definitively as the exclusionary word? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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