Religion cannot be proven by worldly sciences

[VICanucksfan5551]

Yoga can actually be pretty good at relaxation and core strength. It's not just stretching. That said, you don't need to tie in religion to explain how it works.

[Trelane42]

The problem with yoga is the cost.. a person can take their lazy fat bum outside and get exercise for free, yoga tends to be expensive, especially when taken in courses over the years (at any fitness centre or gym being the most common places), and coupled with other yoga products people tend to buy. It's an utter waste of money and it's based on complete nonsense -- stretching (which yoga is), is only useful for maybe half a minute and that's as a precursor to actual exercise. The truth isn't hard to handle.. eat healthy, exercise, try to avoid stress.. don't need a gimmick for that.

[Mr. Ambien]

You’re describing exercise routines that the North America fitness industry has cobbled together from who knows where and appropriated the exotic sounding “yoga” label so as to market the thing to gullible females and effete males willing to part with cash for the privilege of being taught remedial high school stretching exercises.

This has NOTHING to do with the yoga outlined in the Bhagavad-Gita and other sacred Eastern texts. Genuine disciples of Hinduism, Daoism, Zen, and other sects don’t view NA yoga studios as places of enlightenment. Indeed, the social context makes them just the opposite.

Very simply: yoga = meditation/stillness of the mind, NOT body stretching. Other than being able to follow simple instructions (and maybe read) there is no cost associtated with yoga.

One is a valid vehicle toward enlightenment or religious experience. The other, as properly stated, is a poor substitute for weight training and diet with respect to changing body shape, which is the actual goal of 99% clientele in these so-called yoga clinics.

Carry on boys. But some of you may want to be careful about what you call “New Age pseudoscientific superstition garbage.” As with everything in life, doer knows more than mere talker. Scientists who have gone on to practice actual yoga did not find it unrewarding.

[Special Ed]

I have my own religion called 'unknowingness'. Basically it's just I'm not exactly sure why we are all here or how we got here. The meaning of life is I don't know. And I'm pretty unsure about most other things too, but feel free to ask as me stuff... on Sundays. Leave me a message though Sunday is also my official nap day. Or if you see me and my eyes are closed while snoring feel free to comment I swear I'm still listening.

[Scott Hartnell's Mane]

I have my own religion called 'unknowingness'. Basically it's just I'm not exactly sure why we are all here or how we got here. The meaning of life is I don't know. And I'm pretty unsure about most other things too, but feel free to ask as me stuff... on Sundays. Leave me a message though Sunday is also my official nap day. Or if you see me and my eyes are closed while snoring feel free to comment I swear I'm still listening.

[Scott Hartnell's Mane]

You’re describing exercise routines that the North America fitness industry has cobbled together from who knows where and appropriated the exotic sounding “yoga” label so as to market the thing to gullible females and effete males willing to part with cash for the privilege of being taught remedial high school stretching exercises.

This has NOTHING to do with the yoga outlined in the Bhagavad-Gita and other sacred Eastern texts. Genuine disciples of Hinduism, Daoism, Zen, and other sects don’t view NA yoga studios as places of enlightenment. Indeed, the social context makes them just the opposite.

Very simply: yoga = meditation/stillness of the mind, NOT body stretching. Other than being able to follow simple instructions (and maybe read) there is no cost associtated with yoga.

One is a valid vehicle toward enlightenment or religious experience. The other, as properly stated, is a poor substitute for weight training and diet with respect to changing body shape, which is the actual goal of 99% clientele in these so-called yoga clinics.

Carry on boys. But some of you may want to be careful about what you call “New Age pseudoscientific superstition garbage.” As with everything in life, doer knows more than mere talker. Scientists who have gone on to practice actual yoga did not find it unrewarding.

[Mr. Ambien]

If it's pseudoscientific...I will call it pseudoscientific...what exactly is there that I need to "be careful" of? Is the magical Yoga Yeti going to cut my balls off while I sleep?

[aGENT]

It

As someone who was put in martial arts as a child.. yes, martial arts is garbage too.

Although, between yoga and martial arts.. martial arts is worse because it can easily give someone the impression they stand much a chance in hand to hand combat against someone with a knife or gun, in fact, this is explicitly what I was taught, about how karate can disarm people with the most dangerous weapons. Another point where Hollywood has too much influence, and the selling point is not based on intelligence but an idea that has more in common with a church than objective wisdom. Martial arts also results in a significant amount of injuries just by practice!

The problem with yoga is the cost.. a person can take their lazy fat bum outside and get exercise for free, yoga tends to be expensive, especially when taken in courses over the years (at any fitness centre or gym being the most common places), and coupled with other yoga products people tend to buy. It's an utter waste of money and it's based on complete nonsense -- stretching (which yoga is), is only useful for maybe half a minute and that's as a precursor to actual exercise. The truth isn't hard to handle.. eat healthy, exercise, try to avoid stress.. don't need a gimmick for that.

[Mr. Ambien]

It

It's pretty clear you had a bad martial arts teacher and have almost no idea of what goes on in yoga if you think all it is is "stretching".

The sheer amount of ignorance in that post is astounding.

[aGENT]

"Bad" martial arts teacher? LOL.. there is no such thing as bad for something that's made up on the spot.

About yoga, actually doesn't look like I was off, so be astounded all you like for no reason:

http://www.statistic...oga-statistics/

But given the highly subjective and ambiguous nature of what yoga entails, it's no different than stretching+religion, it's no surprise the North American version of yoga is what most of us are around rather than, say, the Tibetan version. I take it that part of the world is where you live?

It's like a debate on religion, where I cite the King James version of the bible and you call me ignorant while citing the New American Standard. Either way, it's a debate on made up s***.

[Trelane42]

I can certainly understand what you mean about the commercialised yoga, and I agree.

However, the subjective concept of "rewarding" and "spiritual" effectively describes even the religious version of yoga. All in one's own head.

[Trelane42]

If it's pseudoscientific...I will call it pseudoscientific...what exactly is there that I need to "be careful" of? Is the magical Yoga Yeti going to cut my balls off while I sleep?

[Scott Hartnell's Mane]

I’ve never known karma to discipline by exact reciprocal means so your balls will probably be OK. Yoga and Yeti? Nexus?

Popular (easy, no math) works like “The Tao of Physics,” or “Dancing Wu Li Masters,” or “How Hippies Saved Physics” ought to be enough, if nothing else, to rethink the usage of words like “pseudoscientific”.

If those titles rub you the wrong way and a more rigorous treatment is desired I recommend Bernard d’Espagnat’s “On Physics and Philosophy” on where science stands with respect to the big questions SpecialEd struggles with.

The bottom line is science does not back any side in this debate, and by its own admission never can! Personal subjective experiences is the only way to go.

[Master Mind]

I did read most of the thread, and I don't remember anyone claiming to have evidence of the nonexistence of a deity. I'm pretty sure it's a mischaracterization by you of counterarguments against theistic claims. I could very well be wrong, though.

You can search by keyword in this thread with the search bar in the top right. That's probably the fastest way.

[Master Mind]

Actually, it's things like that, that made me turn away from atheism and search the truth for myself instead.

"This passage (John 1:18) is not meant to deny that men had witnessed "manifestations" of God, as when he appeared to Moses and the prophets (compare Numbers 12:8; Isaiah 6:1-13); but it is meant that no one has seen the essence of God, or has "fully known God.""

[Master Mind]

It certainly is! Because that's pretty much what this entire thread is about...?

[Trelane42]

Correct me if I am wrong...but aren't hallucinations "personal subjective experiences" also? I believe if you do enough acid or anything else containing hallucinogenic properties you can allow your brain to make you think you see or "experience" all kinds of things. Without concrete evidence of the "religiosity" of yoga or the existence of a "higher consciousness" any personal subjective experiences as it pertains to that or any religion belongs in the same category with hallucinations...only in this case, it's a MASS hallucination, affecting the brain functions of millions all over the planet.

[aGENT]

Thanks for telling me about that searchbar, it works quite well, well most of the time.

Anyway here's an article that was posted:

There are other posts that make claims like the bolded part. Heck, in one of the posts under yours, someone makes the claim that there's no God.

[aGENT]

“A rose by another name…” Yes, hallucination like everything else is a subjective experience. Predictably, everyone uses the more pejorative labels to describe the subjective experience of others that are contrary to one’s own. I can’t give you any “concrete evidence” pro and science can’t give you any against. All I can say is at the quantum level all is conjecture and probability statistics, influenced by mere presence of observers--miracles do occur.

People finding their environments wanting and turning to drugs to enter altered states to fill a void or for inspiration is an old tale. Some artists and scientists had success with it, became wealthy, and left the world something to remember them by. But yogis abstain from their use. Detachment from vices and all forms of addiction is a prerequisite for the discipline. Drug use alters brain chemistry and leads to dependence. Reduced intelligence and well-being are often measured. Subsequent highs demand higher doses. All these are complete opposite to what a yoga practitioner experiences.

There are no quick pill shortcuts to enlightenment. It takes years, decades to attain a level of mind discipline for a person to experience things he would long before call impossible. When those experiences mirror those of other writers, some living eons ago, he’s got himself what science calls replication or validation of an experiment… subjectively speaking, of course, since there is no other way.

[Mr. Ambien]

Correct me if I am wrong...but aren't hallucinations "personal subjective experiences" also? I believe if you do enough acid or anything else containing hallucinogenic properties you can allow your brain to make you think you see or "experience" all kinds of things. Without concrete evidence of the "religiosity" of yoga or the existence of a "higher consciousness" any personal subjective experiences as it pertains to that or any religion belongs in the same category with hallucinations...only in this case, it's a MASS hallucination, affecting the brain functions of millions all over the planet.