Sharpshooter Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 As science was was first propelled into study, it wasn't to discredit or to bury God. When Isaac Newton discovered the laws and constants of gravity, he didn't put God to death. He was even more amazed at the complexity of life, and he cherished God so much more. Just because we can explain things now does not prove that God exists. In fact, the more we discover, the more we actually find out that we DON'T know. Ever heard of quarks? With all the disaster going around, it seems like God has abandon us, but really it is the nature of suffering that we see. God is love, so in order to assert love into the universe, there needs to be its opposite. Hate/suffering. Without hate and suffering, there is no notion of love or righteousness. With the notion of suffering, then we have the existence of things like death. You may ask, why so MUCH disaster, with so MANY people dying, isn't that absurd? Well let me ask, when we assert the concept of "much", when is it "not much"? Instead of 6 million Jews dying in the Holocaust, how about 5.9 million. Would that fly under the radar of your assertion that God is a pompous d**k? Or 5.8million? Or 5.7million? etc etc.. How about 1 Jew? You can't really look at the spectrum of suffering and use "intense suffering" as an argument to disprove God.. because there is no line to draw to what is intense suffering or little suffering.. it's relative. Maybe this isn't answering your question. Maybe you are seeking why suffering exists or why God allows suffering. Well let's put it this way - Without suffering, there would be no love. God wants love, so he allows suffering. God allows free will. Free will = good choices or bad choices. Only by removing free will can we avoid suffering.. but also removes love.. So would you rather, have no love and no suffering, but no choices? or the alternative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtpasc Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 All the scientists decided to tell God to retire, now that they had figured out a way to make a human being from the soil itself. So, a delegation went in His holy presence, and said Lord, now that we are independent and we are creators in our own right, give us the power and retire. The Holy One said, indeed, what have you accomplished. The scientists said that they can now independently make a man, the highest of his creation! The Holy One said, okay let me see it done. So the scientist went to pick up some dirt... and the Lord answered... no, no, no... Dont use MY dirt I Create your own!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkeeterHansen Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 LOOK WHAT JESUS DID. LOOK WHAT JESUS DID. LOOK WHAT JESUS DID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajusta Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Sir Isaac Newton, as brilliant as he was, was in err when he chose to explain things that he couldn't explain scientifically(i believe the wonky orbital paths of planets in our solar system around the Sun) by saying that the explanation lay in the existence of God. The problem with that was that this problem that couldn't be solved by him and which remained a mystery to him was eventually solved and answered later on. And that's the problem with bringing God as an explanation into the mysteries of the natural universe. It's called the 'God of The Gaps' fallacy. When one is faced with something they don't understand or a natural mystery, some assign the explanation to their God. We know that throughout history the things attributed to God as an answer to questions and mysteries has receded, while our knowledge, intelligence, education, systems of observations, and research grows. Science eliminates the need for a God as an answer. You, this planet and the universe didn't 'need' a God as an explanation as to how you got here and why you are the way you are, anymore than we need to assign God in order to explain why planets travel around the Sun the way they do. Your God used to be an explanation for almost everything....because we as a species knew almost nothing. As our knowledge grows, the need for God as an explanation recedes. We're evolving as a species, and the God myth is one of the last remnants of a time where when we, as a species, were looking for an answer we had had one that was easy to accept and accessible by everyone. This clinging to supernatural stories and mythological sources of explanations are like a vestigial appendage that we as a species don't really need anymore, like our Coccyx, aka tailbone. Some of us in our species have psychologically evolved past the safety blanket of supernaturality. I hope people such as yourself will eventually too, albeit i'm sure kicking and screaming. This is why a formal post-secondary education in the sciences(Biology, Chemistry, Physics, etc) and Social Science (Psychology, Sociology, Anthropology, etc) is so critical for so many. The less we're educated the more susceptible we are to reverting to our ancestral proclivities towards Sun(Son) worship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 You are missing the point. Science, as it first started out, was not used to take God out of the equation. But to show us how God has set things in motion. It's so mistakenly diagnosed "God of the Gaps" if I declare 'I don't know, only God does', when really the God of the Gaps is more of a 'We Will Never Know'. The former recognizes that we will eventually find out, but it doesn't remove God from the picture. The latter is attributing the unknown ONLY to God. It's like figuring out exactly how your hard drive or soild state drive actually functions, and then exclaiming the manufacturer doesn't exist. How absurd is that. Just because we know how the sun emits light and how the moon reflects light, does not undermine an all supreme being that created everything. BTW - this is all skeptic misunderstanding on one point - that theists NEED ONLY God to explain life. Well this isn't the case. Many scientists are Christian. Technology and scientific research DOES NOT take God out of the picture. While we are at it, Einstein's findings on the theory of relativity even PROVES God's existence. So if you want to go down the path of scientific research, its undeniable to talk about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevlach Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 God was need for this universe, life, and consciousness to exist. God was not needed for this universe, life, and consciousness to exist. Both are statements of faith. Believe what you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddhas Hand Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 God was need for this universe, life, and consciousness to exist. God was not needed for this universe, life, and consciousness to exist. Both are statements of faith. Believe what you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBackup Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 There is a difference between man made religion and God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 God was need for this universe, life, and consciousness to exist. God was not needed for this universe, life, and consciousness to exist. Both are statements of faith. Believe what you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevlach Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 False equivalency my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 How? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 ORLY? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Thank you for that. When I saw the first video I pulling my hair out. This guy doesn't hate religion, he hates all religions that aren't his. Like somehow his church is exempt from the definition. Talk about arrogant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevlach Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 You mean you want me to explain the difference between actual knowledge and observation and making crap up?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Umm we don't have knowledge for whether or not a "god" is required for the universe (I should say existence in general), life, or consciousness. It seems to me it's impossible to tell atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevlach Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBackup Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Is it even relevant though? Assuming that there is a god (and that's a big assumption) it's taken no role in the universe so far, and I can guarantee you it isn't any being we've conceived of so far. The most you can argue for is a deistic view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevlach Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Is it even relevant though? Assuming that there is a god (and that's a big assumption) it's taken no role in the universe so far, and I can guarantee you it isn't any being we've conceived of so far. The most you can argue for is a deistic view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Standing_Tall#37 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 The guy in the first video was so illogical, I had to turn it off. 'I believe in The Church, the Bible....Jesus......but religion sucks!' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBackup Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 And whats wrong with Deism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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