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Super19

Religion cannot be proven by worldly sciences

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Maybe not hear on middle earth, he exists outside of this realm. You wouldn't understand.

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Yeah it's called poetry and literary devices.

Yao Ming looks pretty big for someone who's only 5 foot tall, no?

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So, the infallible word of god perpetrates falsehoods in the name of poetry?

Also, this means Yao Ming is not a human at all, but an entirely separate race called a "nephilim".

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How is it falsehood if the poetic device is allegory? That's like claiming JRR Tolkien is a beast of a liar.

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How does Lennox 'deal' with Hawking's point about the laws of physics being necessary for this universes creation and not the need of a creator?

If you've read it, great, you can give me a summarized version of his point that address Hawking.

Although, you still didn't address the false equivalency issue. Do you actually think that I require a 'faith' in gravity in order to observe it, or to understand(some of us) how gravitational forces allow for the creation of universes, particularly ours, since we can observe, but also other one as theorized in M-Theory?

If you misspoke, then that's fine, but if you want to full-throatedly defend that statement, you're going to have to do better than an unquoted Lennox anecdote.

If the laws of physics can necessarily be shown through calculations, which they have been, that quantum fluctuations can give rise to our universe, then that also shows the unnecessary requirement that a God literally had a hand in the creation of the universe, let alone the creation of humans, or stars, or light, or light before the stars as he apparently is said to have accomplished, somehow.

Consciousness is an evolutionary by-product. I'm really surprised that you of all people are attempting to attribute that to a divine designer. You seem to go through periods of lunacy and lucidity. I'm guessing there's a full moon out tonight. ;)

And many of the laws of physics were created after the big bang. There was no magnetism for example, even immediately after the big bang, as there weren't other physics principles at the very start, of before-hand.

Even if we assume that 'something' always existed, you cannot make the logical leap that that thing was 'god', or any other mythical figurine of the cosmos. That's just bad logic.

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That's irrelevant unless you think the Word of God must always be read literally.

Do you think so? That the Word of God must always be read literally?

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Perhaps you can draw a line in the sand on what is literal and what is poetic now so the next time something in the bible is disproved it doesn't become metaphor.

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Well for starters laws don't do anything unless there is something for them to act on. The law of gravity doesn't cause anything on it's own. Which is why I said there has to be something that is eternal.

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I don't think it is the word of god. But if it were, yeah. I don't know why God would be going on talking about how it's okay to eat four legged insects. You'd think the infallible word of god would be a lot more straight-forward.

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Then I think you are grossly misunderstanding literature altogether or just ignorantly choosing to believe what you believe. Jesus himself uses parables all the time.. "faith is like a mustard seed". See that? A poetic device used to help people understand. Faith isn't literally a mustard seed.

It was straight forward. For the culture it was revealed to, that is as simple as it gets. God created the heavens and the earth. Damn that's simple. God created everything. He spoke, and it happened. They didn't have the knowledge to comprehend astrophysics and the theory of making planets.

Bottom line - it NEEDED metaphors and parables to convey truth to its audience.

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I'm quite positive God could've articulated himself in a way that would have better explained what he meant without resorting to saying ridiculous things like the first woman being created from the rib of a dust man.

But you're the great literary scholar. Enlighten me to the metaphor God was making to a populace who, despite largely being unable to read or write, would've been easily able to interpret.

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Guest Gumballthechewy

i-dont-see-many-ice-giants-around-11673-1305616610-36.jpg

Is it even relevant though? Assuming that there is a god (and that's a big assumption) it's taken no role in the universe so far, and I can guarantee you it isn't any being we've conceived of so far.

The most you can argue for is a deistic view.

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stephen-hawking5.jpg

"I'm Stephen Hawking. I'm a scientist. I'm an atheist. And i know more about the universe than you.

Is there a God? Likely not. But if there was, i'd have a few choice words for him.

Is there a heaven? Also likely not. It is a fairly tale for people afraid of the dark. I'm not afraid of the dark. Understandably, I like to spend most of my free time in the dark.

Philosophy is dead. They cannot answer anything where modern scientists can. It's just going to take a bit of patience on your part while i type it out on my speak and spell, beee-yotches."

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Philosophy is dead. They cannot answer anything where modern scientists can. It's just going to take a bit of patience on your part while i type it out on my speak and spell, beee-yotches."

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