Sharpshooter Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Has it occurred to you that we are the way we are because of those things, those things aren't like that because of us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remy Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Exactly. It's like suggesting that mountains were 'designed' for mountain climbers. That's essentially what 'fine-tuning' is suggesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Interesting video. I don't have really anything to add just want to point out that in all three of Lee Strobel's books he's not writing "his understandings" of science and trying to explain them with his Law degree. He "interviews" people who actually have degrees in those fields, even if they are extremely biased "experts" like Michael Behe, Stephen Meyer or William Lane Craig to name a few. But it's not his "expert opinion." And I don't think it's that creationists think the universe is fine tuned for life as much as they believe the earth - in the universe - is fine tuned. Like if you went to an aquarium one could say "it's fine tuned for aquatic life" and then another would say "how bout the concession, the rides, the bathrooms, the hallways, the observation decks; doesn't seem fine tuned for aquatic life at all!" When in fact that is just missing the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 If American people came from British people, then why are there still British people? Checkmate, atheists! If you expect logical, rational thoughts from religious people, when discussing religion, you're gonna have a bad time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 If American people came from British people, then why are there still British people? Checkmate, atheists! If you expect logical, rational thoughts from religious people, when discussing religion, you're gonna have a bad time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 That video refutes the earth/galaxy/universe from being fine tuned?????? Oh my.. Gravity isn't required for life? What if water escapes to space? What water do you have left on earth? The video said no gravity is okay for life.... and then they showed being in zero gravity air craft shows evidence of that? What if there is no water? Maybe the film maker was inept to conclude that life doesn't need water? Then they say Lee Strobel has no academic credibility on the entire matter of mathematics and gravitational force.... this is hilarious. Lee Strobel is an investigative journalist who interviews experts and other mathematicians. His mode of investigation gives him the credibility to conclude with points he has investigated. Much like how you are able to watch the news and believe what is being presented. Why would you ever believe ANYTHING that is reported on any news station? Biochemists even use scientific research that is concluded by other chemists and biologists.. it's called synthesizing research. Lee Strobel investigates the facts and synthesizes the data. Lastly, the video presented the fact that our planet has a very small % degree of life on it. Asserting that our planet is not extraordinary at all. That is laughable. For DECADES no one is able to find life at all on any other planet. Not only that, but humans have sentient life. That even adds more radical uniqueness to our planet. Sigh.. the video skips over the fact that our distance from the Sun is perfect, ocean currents perfect, the tilt on the earth is perfect, extraordinary protective meteor belt.. etc etc etc.. Where is all the refuting evidence? Here's more on the fine tuning of our cosmos - http://m.teachastron...ng-in-Cosmology One of the very difficult things to explain in standard cosmology is the flatness of space. Remember that the early universe was small and dense, and space-time was actually curved and knotted in the quantum era so the current flatness of space is an unusual condition. In standard cosmologies with no vacuum energy, flat space corresponds to a critical energy density, and in the expansion dynamics of the universe it’s an equal amount of energy in kinetic energy of the expansion and in the potential energy of all the gravity in the universe. The best analogy for this strange situation is to imagine throwing something up into the air. If you give it some particular random speed it’s likely to fall back down to your feet, but if you give it the very special velocity of the escape velocity, the object will just leave the gravity of the Earth. If you give it much larger than the escape velocity, the object will sail off into space and travel forever. The universe itself is poised between re-collapse and endless expansion. The flat space condition is a very particular condition corresponding to equal amounts of potential and kinetic energy. It’s as if the odds of throwing something up into the air and having it at exactly the escape velocity were very small. The fine tuning of the universe is the closeness of the space-time shape to being flat. The fact that space-time is this close to being flat now means that the initial parameters of the big bang expansion must have been very finely tuned early in the universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 What has a "creator " got to do with me wanting to excel in life , and wanting to treat others the way i want to be treated myself ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 That's wrong. For many many years before the "Jesus" story there was the Roman and Greek beliefs of the Titans and Olympians and also the Egyptian gods not to mention all those crazy looking gods in Hindu mythology and before that man just worshiped the sun and animal spirits and what not. There has almost always been the general belief in various gods and spirits, mainly to explain things man could not, but "Jesus god" is a fairly new one in comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I rest my case then. You've clearly demonstrated that I was correct in my assertion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBackup Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I seem to recall a certain religious man make that same statement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I seem to recall a certain religious man make that same statement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 How so? I don't see how you could come to that conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Continue putting two and two together. You'll get there eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datsyukian Dangle Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Sorry for interrupting, but just wanna stir some comedy in all this and lighten the mood a bit: Why did the atheist cross the road? He thought there might be a street on the other side, but he wouldn’t believe it until he tested his hypothesis. How many atheists does it take to change a light bulb? Two. One to actually change the bulb, and the other to videotape the job so fundamentalists won’t claim that god did it. Why did the atheist throw her watch out of the window? She wanted to see if it was designed intelligently enough to evolve into a bird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBackup Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Sorry for interrupting, but just wanna stir some comedy in all this and lighten the mood a bit: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Sorry for interrupting, but just wanna stir some comedy in all this and lighten the mood a bit: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevlach Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 But, i believe you're missing the point. See, the aquarium isn't 'fine tuned' for aquatic life, it's fine tuned to hold the water that contains the aquatic life. The life contained in the water became atuned to its environment, not the other way around.....and that's the point that you should be contemplating moreso. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBackup Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 And that's essentially what he said in the video "the universe isn't fine tuned for life" which is true but planets in goldilock zones like earth are "fine-tuned" for life. It doesn't matter so much that life became attuned to the environment through evolution, rather that life can exist on the planet in the first place. “The fine-tuning argument we all agree is the most intriguing. It is not trivial – we all say that. We all agree about that.” -Christopher Hitchens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 And that's essentially what he said in the video "the universe isn't fine tuned for life" which is true but planets in goldilock zones like earth are "fine-tuned" for life. It doesn't matter so much that life became attuned to the environment through evolution, rather that life can exist on the planet in the first place. “The fine-tuning argument we all agree is the most intriguing. It is not trivial – we all say that. We all agree about that.” -Christopher Hitchens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevlach Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 The fact that life arose on it is more a testament to life than the planet itself. We have bacteria that can live in places upwards of thousands of degrees, or places without oxygen. A human is incapable of surviving in such an environment. Life is adaptable. At one point humans and dolphins shared a common ancestor. The branch that became humanity adapted itself to the land, while the ones that became porpoises adapted to the water. Basically, it's life that's being fine tuned. Not the environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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